Louder does not equal more!

I've followed the election season from Day 1. I haven't commented or wrote a diary on mydd in a long while. But the volume and shear bias and slander against Hillary Clinton is forcing my hand to write. I've gradually noticed that sites that I used to love eg DailyKos and Democratic Underground are unbearable pits of Clinton hositility. All civility has gone out the window and one time anti-Clinton GOP talking points are are being rehashed as fact by fellow Democrats. But I've also noticed the "loud" factor.  Obama supporters are far louder in their criticism, and frankly I think more vocal. Are there more of them? Perhaps online.

I've taken some poll results and anecdotal evidence and tried to formulate a theory.

Clinton supporters are generally quieter. Obama pulls more independents but does not hold down the base. If obama is the nominee, McCain will draw a significant number of Clinton primary voters.

I've taken 3 anecdotes and 2 polls that support this theory. I don't know how it applies nationally, but polls conducted by Rasmussen are from Pennsylvania and North Carolina. One with an Obama lead and one with a Clinton lead.

Anecdote 1:One of my very close friends whom I graduated with supports Hillary Clinton. I took it as a given that he would vote for the Democratic nominee. We were recently talking over dinner and was shocked when he indicated that he liked McCain and would vote for him if Hillary was not the nominee. I don't think he disliked Obama, just that he didn't think he was ready for the job.

Anecdote 2: My uncle rarely votes. He voted for her in the Primary (NJ).  My aunt was hosting a small get-together at their place. The TV was on and McCain was talking about something (I never pay attention to anything he says)but both he and my aunt commented on how he would make a good president. And Viola again, against Obama they are voting McCain.

Anecdote 3: Another friend's mother, not political at all; she did not vote in any primary but weary of Bush. She likes all of them, from what she's heard. But voting Hillary or McCain. Again, its McCain instead of Obama.

Everyone I've referenced lives in NJ. Maybe this could explain the recent polls showing Hillary leading McCain by double digits and McCain leading Obama by 2 in the Garden State.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c ontent/politics/election_20082/2008_pres idential_election/new_jersey/new_jersey_ 2008_presidential_election

Poll 1: From the latest Rasmussen Poll from Pa." If Obama does, in fact, win the nomination, just 57% of Clinton voters say they are even somewhat likely to vote for him against John McCain.

If Clinton is the nominee, just 64% of Obama voters say they are at least somewhat likely to vote for her against McCain."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c ontent/politics/election_20082/2008_pres idential_election/pennsylvania/pennsylva nia_democratic_presidential_primary

Poll 2: From the latest Rasmussen Poll from NC. "If Clinton wins the nomination, just 67% of Obama's voters say they are at least somewhat likely to vote for her in the general election against John McCain.

If Obama wins the nomination, just 49% of Clinton voters say they're Somewhat or Very Likely to vote for Obama against McCain."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c ontent/politics/election_20082/2008_pres idential_election/north_carolina/north_c arolina_democratic_primary

I think this flies in the face of all the those who are saying "But he can win red states". Winning red states is great, but only if you can hold down the big blue ones first.

Display:


Re: Louder does not equal more! (2.00 / 2)

Yeah and the whole "Her supporters will vote for me, but my supporters won't vote for her" thing was very idiotic to say.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:34:57 PM EST

Re: Louder does not equal more! (2.00 / 1)

That was sheer arrogance and also proves another point which not many people talk about.

Obama knows his support is mostly made up of hateful peoples anti-Clinton feelings.

That made him say the idiotic things, which you just mentioned.


by Sandeep on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Louder does not equal more! (none / 0)

Well, it's more complicated than that.  A good chunk of Obama's white liberal support is made up by people who hate the Clintons.  But that's just a small part of his coalition thus far.  He also relies strongly on the African-American vote and, the protestations of the blogosphere notwithstanding, they do not hate the Clintons.  Large majorities of Obama voters in Mississippi said that he should pick Clinton as his VP.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Louder does not equal more! (none / 0)

This is absurd: "Winning red states is great, but only if you can hold down the big blue ones first." You really do suck up everything Hillary tells you don't you. There is overwhelming evidence that Democratic strongholds will -- GASP -- vote for the Democratic candidate in November.
"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:49:08 PM EST

Re: Louder does not equal more! (2.00 / 1)

Well I just presented evidence contrary to this "overhelming evidence".  And conversely, you seem to eat up everything out of the Obama campaign.


by NJDEM1 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:30:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Louder does not equal more! (2.00 / 1)

NJDEM,

I'm a member of he NJ Chambers of Commerce. I have good connections in County level politics in Northern & Central NJ.

Even  NJ elected officials who are strong Obama supporters are PRIVATELY very concerned about Obama's chances in NJ.

Their own internal surveys show that Obama is very weak for November among core democrats in Bergen,Essex, Union,Passaic & Middlesex counties.

Two polling orgs have done surveys for the county. It has shown significant alarming numbers of registered democratic Irish, Italians,Jewish, & Asian groups ( Filipinos, Chinese,Indians & Koreans) planning to vote for McCain IF Obama is the nominee.

Several have expressed that it would be "virtually impossible for African-Americans in Newark,Jersey City, Trenton, & the Oranges to offset the massive number of Blue collar white voters & highly educated Asian voters who will cross party lines.

They say that this is the same "Reagan Democratic Coalition that gave NJ to Republicans in the 80's & Christie Todd Whitman's close win.

Without these core blocks, they are certain that NJ will go GOP with Obama as the nominee.

That's reality.

It is very realistic to see NJ,PA,CT,MA go GOP if Obama is the nominee.


by labanman on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:54:06 PM EST

Re: Louder does not equal more! (2.00 / 1)

Wouldn't it be ironic if Obama was the nominee and lost to McCain by losing blue state and winning some small red ones?


by NJDEM1 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:31:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: red states (2.00 / 1)

 winning primaries/caucuses in red states is one thing.  believe me Obama will not be winning the red states in the general election. obama's supporters are really deluded if they think he will!


by moevaughn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:47:41 PM EST

Re: Louder does not equal more! (none / 0)

Yes, his supporters are certainly loud. And today has been an infuriating day. For the first time in a long time, the thought, "I won't vote for that asshole in the GE!" crossed my mind. I'm trying to push it away. Not working yet.
Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:51:17 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.