My Own Special Comment

Listening to some here it is clear that they just don't get it or they are lemmings willing to take our Democratic party right off a cliff. It is obvious that McCain and the Republicans will attack Obama for the unpatriotic and racist comments his spiritual mentor of 20 years made. As well as the despicable things he said about Bill and Hillary Clinton inside a church of all places.

And frankly they should.

I find all of it very reprehensible and as an American citizen I am outraged that we are even considering this man for our highest office. The stuff Reverend Wright said about 9/11 alone is enough to disqualify Obama for the Presidency in my book.

The excuse that Obama has said he didn't agree with it and all that crap just doesn't cut it with me. If the situation were reversed and a white candidate for the same office attended a church for 20 years where they espoused KKK type viewpoints all hell would be breaking out throughout this country. And rightly so.

Do any of you honestly believe for a minute that an excuse like this should be acceptable?

Uh well, uh I don't agree with uh everything he says but uh I still go to uh church there every uh Sunday. And uh he married me and my uh wife and he uh baptized our uh children. Then uh I gave him about $20,000 a uh year or uh so ago even though I find what he says uh reprehensible. Uh and I uh uh denounce it.

The double standards by which Obama supporters are requiring us to judge their candidate are not only astounding they are ridiculous. As Hillary famously once said: They require the willing suspension of disbelief.

When someone goes out of his way to insist that he is a Christian and uses the association with this pastor and this church as proof of it, we really need to be questioning the authenticity of his audacity. Perhaps I am in the minority but I don't believe that black racism is any different than white racism. It is all reprehensible and NONE of it is Christian.

Obama's candidacy has managed to not only split the Democratic party, it has managed to undo the great strides we have made in the past 40 years toward achieving racial equality and equal opportunity.

For the good of our party and for the sake of our nation I respectfully request that Senator Obama withdraw from this race.

For additional commentary see:

Rev Wright & the Audacity of Obama

Obama's Pastor: Blacks Should Sing 'God damn America'

Keith Olbermann, Hypocrite

Obama and Wright: Campaign Position

green 75

Display:


Re: My Own Special Comment (1.00 / 7)

Well said.

It seems that there are more troubles coming Obama's way.  The sex scandal guy who everyone called a quack hired a real lawyer and has filed a lawsuit.

http://bigheaddc.com/2008/03/13/sinclair -files-3-million-defamation-suit-involvi ng-drug-allegations-against-obama/


by inFlorida on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 05:57:18 PM EST

disgusting (1.25 / 4)

My monitor needs cleaning after that post. There is more evidence that Hillary is a lesbian than that Obama is involved with that idiot.


by highgrade on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: disgusting (2.00 / 0)

If you want a laugh, here's an article about the "real lawyer" that bozo has hired.  Keep in mind, Bill Clinton doesn't have a law license, but this guy does!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmmm. There is plenty of evidence... (2.00 / 1)

that Obama "is/has been involved with this guy".

And, what difference would it make if Hillary Clinton is a lesbian?  No more difference than the fact that Barack Obama is half black.  None.  Nada.  Zip.


by Shazone on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:00:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmmm. There is plenty of evidence... (none / 0)

And she'd nail down the Loretta Hickock constituency as well!


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who? (none / 0)


by Shazone on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:50:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who? (none / 0)

Eleanor Roosevelt's secretary (and reported lover).


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:18:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 0)

I ain't touching that one.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:44:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow (2.00 / 0)

It is now acceptable to quote right wing nutjobs as fact here.


by fladem on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow (none / 0)

That's my concern, too.

Now Hillary has provided a logic for her supporters to become the echo chamber for any and all attacks, real or imagined, that the righwingers and racists, etc. might possibly fling at Obama in the general election.

There is no limit to this logic. Even the most vile possible rightwing attacks now become an acceptable part of our discourse.

McCain knows that he can't publicly support such attacks, but now, with this wonderful logic, Hillary and her supporters here and everywhere have no such limitation.

Say whatevery you want about Obama, no matter how vile and divisive, because, well, it is just a preview of what he'll face by ugly people in the future. Of course, we don't agree with these ugly people and ugly comments, we are just beng helpful by anticipating and repeating their views ....

It is not enough to endorse McCain as the better commander in chief than our likely nominee, we need to go further and echo the most vile and ridiculous attacks that we expect from Karl Rove and worse
by xtrarich on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:13:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

come on (2.00 / 1)

did you watch the video?

This does not go in the "vile and vicious" attack column, it goes in the "America has a right to know" column.

All voters have the right and should see these videos.  (and they WILL once he's the nominee,just believe that as true)  

Then Obama can voice some defense of this, of his support and involvement in this church, and make crystal clear his own views as they digress from Wright.  

Good luck with that, by the way.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:46:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow (none / 0)

Hillary is not promoting the story you reference nor are many Hillary supporters pushing it. You may have noticed my comment about it. Maybe not.

Please rephrase your broad assumption which has no basis in reality.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:47:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (none / 0)

I'm sorry, but that garbage has no place here.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:33:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (none / 0)

Agreed!


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:49:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 6)

Agreed 100%.  This isn't the Christianity I subscribe to, and the truth is that the Republicans will make so much of this that we will see the biggest landside in history for Republicans.

We have no perfect dog in this fight, but we do have another good one who stands a MUCH better chance of the Presidency going Blue in 2008.

Patricia


by The Smoldering Crone on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:05:26 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 3)

It isn't the Christianity I was brought up to believe. Now if Obama is really the new Messiah that some of his followers believe I might have to change my opinion.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

omg (2.00 / 5)

this is not about religion.  It's about racial hate speech.

Do you get that yet?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: omg (none / 0)

Wright isn't running for any office. Obama doesn't agree with him on some things, as he said. It would be over if the nutjobs didn't keep stirring the pot to tar our future nominee. Keep stirring, we'll lose.
by Becky G on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: omg (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, he has just hung out for the guy for 20 years because he really doesn't agree with what he says. He has given him money because he doesn't agree with him. He asked him to bless his house because he doesn't agree with him. And the list goes on and on.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:54:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's "Pastor" Speaks for him... (2.00 / 1)

Wright's anti-American tirades are why this will be part of the general election; the RNC will use this "pastor" without a doubt. And, they will use this as well [below]. They'll say Obama agrees with Wright's anti-American tirades. They say, Why else would Obama refuse to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem--as one is supposed to do? Either Obama is making a statement; or he is ignorant. Whichever it is, this photo will be used to smear Democrats as unpatriotic in the general election:  

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0, 29307,1662530_1446035,00.html

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-fi nkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart -pledge-either-will-msm-notice

http://www.pajamasmedia.com/2007/10/obam as_disheartening_behavior.php


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:05:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

some things are simply so hateful (2.00 / 1)

and alienating you can't simply disagree with them, not after you've been an accepting partner to it for twenty years.

Here's a possibility for you -- in many minds if Obama wins the presidency we ALL lose.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:58:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

I don't care if Obama's pastor thinks Obama is the second coming of the Easter Bunny. That isn't the point. Racism and hate are. Surely you understand that.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pat Robertson, Falwell, Hagee (none / 0)

have all made similar statements of hate speech. Republicans court these guys like McCain has courted each of them. Concern trolling much?


by Erik on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:24:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pat Robertson, Falwell, Hagee (2.00 / 1)

Do you see me defending those clods? Do you see a single Hillary supporter here supporting them? Maybe you are the one that needs to go back to Free Republic so you can argue with the people that support those idiots.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pat Robertson, Falwell, Hagee (none / 0)

I don't know, I see Hillary supporting McCain.  I haven't heard her make much about Hagee.


by shalca on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:59:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pat Robertson, Falwell, Hagee (none / 0)

Hillary isn't supporting McCain. Where do you get this nonsense? She said he had passed the CiC threshold. He is a decorated war hero that was tortured and still bears the physical disability as a result of it. And he has stood up to those that would agree with torture. Do you expect anyone in their right mind to say anything less? You notice I said right mind.

I don't agree with McCain on hardly anything. But someone that was in the military, fought bravely and then refused to be let go by his tormentors because he wanted to stay with his men is a war hero in my book. I am not saying he would be a good CiC only that he has the creds for it.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The "evangelicals" will come out (2.00 / 5)

... of the woodwork on that.  What was he thinking?  I can't understand Obama staying in that church.  He ought to know that the language is offensive, even if he thinks of the man as an "old uncle".  

I've got up and left churches where wrong came from the pulpit.  You can't stop the churchgoers from doing/saying, but you can withdraw your participation/support of teaching that is wrong.  And to raise your children in that environment?

I'll probably get blasted, but Fleaflicker says, "What if the situation was reverse?"  What if we were to learn that Hillary Clinton had regularly attended a church or any group that belittled America and blamed America for 9/11.  Howling to the rooftops.

The flag lapel pin bit was a ludicrous.  Unfortunately for Obama, this is going to chain together with that.  I'm not an Obama supporter, but I've certainly stood against, verbablly and in writing, anyone who send that crappola to me or repeated to me in person.  I've told each and every one that it's bunk -the man took an oath of office to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.  How can I defend against his pastor's remarks?


by Southern Mouth on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "evangelicals" will come out (2.00 / 3)

You are right. There would be howling. And she would be kept out of the race for the nomination by acclimation. Double standard? Sexism? Something else?


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:06:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The common consensus excuse (2.00 / 3)

seems to be "It's OK for black people to be racists, because they have been treated badly". Not that I'm saying they haven't been treated badly, because they have. But if you have ever been dirt poor, you will understand when I say that the USA treats some whites badly, as well. I don't agree with prejudice from either group.


by georgiapeach on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Teaching your children... (2.00 / 5)

Really good point:  to raise your children in that environment.  It's teaching them to hate.  Awful!


by PlainWords on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Teaching your children... (2.00 / 2)

It is child abuse in my opinion.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:09:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Teaching your children... (none / 0)

Oh great.

Fleaflicker accuses Barack Obama of CHILD ABUSE!!!!!!

Just further evidence of the logic I discussed above that any and all attacks against Obama are now acceptable with the Hillary campaign offering the convenient (and morally reprehensible) logic that such attacks are just anticipating the vile attacks that the rightwing extremists and the Karl Roves might possibly put forth in the general election.

Fleaflicker is worst than the rightwing swiftboaters, because he pretends to speak as a Democrat.
by xtrarich on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:23:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Teaching your children... (2.00 / 2)

"Fleaflicker accuses Barack Obama of CHILD ABUSE!!!!!! "

II agree, repeatedly exposing your children to racial hate speech and raising them in that environment is child abuse.

In the home I grew up in anyone who espoused any racial, ethnic, or homophobic prejudice or told a bigoted joke was yelled right out of our house and told not to return. My mother would specifically inform people that they would not be allowed ro poison her children's minds with bigotry.

I cannot imagine inflicting that kind of bigotry and hate on children even once, never mind every Sunday and holiday.


by 07rescue on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:46:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Teaching your children... (2.00 / 1)

Thank you.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:01:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Teaching your children... (2.00 / 1)

So in your opinion it is healthy to bring a child up to hate people because of their race? You don't consider that abuse?

I am not sure who you are but I assure you I am much more of a Democrat than you are. Because I actually care about the direction and the future of my party. And I don't want to lose in November.

But thanks for the compliment. Coming from where it does I consider your insult an honor.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:00:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Teaching your children... (2.00 / 1)

FF, while I question, er don't like, the raising of children under the teaching of Rev. Wright, I would not go so far as to call it child "abuse".  I know there are many forms of child abuse, but that term can be tossed around.  

As an adult survivor of child abuse, I have my antenna up on behaviors that look like child abuse.  The church probably has a large congregation and Sunday School, maybe even Children's Church, where the same "toxic" teaching is not presented to the little ones.

We just disagree on that term in this matter.  I don't think that Barack or Michelle are attempting to hurt or even neglecting their children by taking them to that church, even knowing that the "old uncle" says some inappropriate things.  If that were the case, then there are LOTS of little white kids who were "abused" by their parents by taking them to church where a white preacher preached racism.

Wise behavior on their part?  Not IMHO.  Doesn't give Obama points in the judgment or unity columns.

Like I wrote earlier, if I found that Hillary had been regularly attending a church that made racial slurs against anyone, including Muslims, I would lose respect and she would lose points in the judgment and unity columns.  


by Southern Mouth on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:16:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Teaching your children... (none / 0)

I don't think that Barack or Michelle are attempting to hurt or even neglecting their children by taking them to that church, even knowing that the "old uncle" says some inappropriate things.

I don't think that Barack or Michele Obama consider what their Reverend is saying is harmful. I think that they truly believe it.

As a survivor of child abuse myself (both physical and mental)I take all of this very seriously. I don't think they beat their kids. I don't think they berate them or tear them down in public. But what they do do is place them in an environment where they are taught that white people are not only different than they are, they are responsible for all their ills. And to me that is abuse.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:16:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So, you know as I do (none / 0)

that as an adult survivor of child abuse, the ball is now "in our court."

So many abused turn to abusing others.  Many fight it.  Many try to ignore and deny it.  Most are trying to survive the best way we know how.

One therapy session, I was railing on someone and saying that I had always been that way, that was always the way I reacted to some whatever crap.  She asked:  "And how's that working for you?"  My answer was:  "Not worth a damn actually."

I had to and still have to find ways to .... peace.

Ignoring the abuse occured is no solution.  The abuse of African Americans is an issue that has not been dealt with effectively.  Personally, I don't think Rev. Wright's words are very effective.  One has to look at the results as well.


by Southern Mouth on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:45:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, you know as I do (none / 0)

Words from the wise.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I used to attend a church on a (2.00 / 4)

regular basis. That came to a screeching halt one Sunday morning when I pulled into the parking lot and read the sign out front that said "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.". I left and never went back.


by georgiapeach on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "evangelicals" will come out (2.00 / 6)

you can't

There really is no defense.

Realistically, if he's been going there continuously for 20 yrs SOMEONE should be reminding people what OSMOSIS means!!!

20 yrs once a week is a lifetime of brainwashing
whether you are aware of it or not.

If you grow up with a Father or Mother that scream the N word whether often or on occasion after 20 yrs the child will learn that word and repeat it w/out even noticing

This totally explains Michelle's "foot in mouth" disease!  Totally!

I wonder if Oprah goes to the same church?
You know I'd almost RATHER BO be Muslim after watching this JERK. Where did he get his collar? On line?


by CarolinaDawn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "evangelicals" will come out (2.00 / 1)

You have it exactly. There is no defense for this.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "evangelicals" will come out (2.00 / 1)

Now, now.  This is where Obama's vaunted excellent judgement comes in to play. Obviously, we're just too dumb to understand how great this pastor is.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "evangelicals" will come out (2.00 / 1)

Oprah does go to the same church, along with the Marsalis Family and Common.


by davisb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:52:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oprah is running for president n/t (none / 0)


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:02:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And someone should remind you (none / 0)

what a guilt-by-association fallacy is.  You have no evidence of Wright's influence on Obama's views; your argument mainly boils down to "Obama is bad because a racist likes him".

  20 yrs once a week is a lifetime of brainwashing.
 The hell it is.  I read right-wing editorials at least once a week.  Does that make me "brainwashed" by supply-side economics?  Can someone with some socially unacceptable views have nothing else interesting to say?


by corph on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:15:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you read right wing editorials.. (2.00 / 2)

but did you then invite the authors to come bless your house??? Baptise your children???  Did you give the authors of those right wing editorials you read money???  Did you ask the authors to be a part of your campaign as the 'spiritual advisor'???

Its hardly the same thing, your 'editorial reading' and Obama's relationship with this man.  This will finish Obama in the general.


by Maole on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you read right wing editorials.. (2.00 / 2)

This will finish Obama in the general.

It should finish him in the primary if the Democratic party elders have any sense at all.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "evangelicals" will come out (none / 0)

A question, if he said what he said 40 years ago, would you blame him?


by shalca on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On some of the things ... (2.00 / 1)

I would find them offensive 40 years ago.

Hells bells, 40 years ago, I was 20 years old, the civil rights movement was raw, and I would have thought he was inciting rebellion! or worse!

I don't "blame" Rev. Wright now.  I just personally don't agree with some of the remarks.  I feel sure that he's made lots more very inspiring remarks.  

I cannot and will never be able to understand the experience of an African American.  I can try, I can empathize, but I will never be black and KNOW what it feels like.  I can tell you this much - from what I've seen, it's horrible.

And the bad part, the white supremist racist bastards are going to be on this earth spewing hatred of black people for...ever.

Right now, in the white Christian churches I attended, past tense - attended, I heard so much hate speech both from the pulpit and from the pews of Muslims.  I've been thoroughly indoctrinated in the theology of supporting Israel.  I had to walk away.  God Himself hasn't "rubberstamped" the Israelites actions, why should I?  

They have pounded in that scripture that says, "I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you".  When I went back to reread it, God was talking Abraham.  Many times the Bible says that when he talked to Abraham, the promise was to his children as well because Isaac "was in his loins".  Well, so was Ishmael and so was Esau.

They have taken that scripture and extended it to mean America is blessed because it blessed and blesses Israel.  Soooo, America is blessed .... and so we're right?  Not so fast.  How many times has Israel AND my country been absolutely WRONG in their judgments and actions?  God doesn't bless wrong.  In fact, the Bible says that He judges those who espouse His tenets more harshly.

Including others in the "I will bless those who bless you" is line with the teachings of Christ.

I did digress .... but I answered your question.  You may not like my answer but I was honest.

Rev. Wright is NOT running for President.  Obama is.  There's no way around this.  He is going to be greatly impacted by the fact that he sat under the teachings of Rev. Wright for x period of time.  And because of the "He's a Muslim" crappola that went around, he's had to avow his Christian beliefs over and over.  So, he's attached himself strongly to Rev. Wright.

I don't know how this is going to play out.  I really don't.

I just know if the situation were reverse, Hillary or McCain would be in serious trouble.  Ferraro wasn't her spiritual leader and look how much trouble Hillary's in for what Ferraro said.  And then they found where she has said something similar about Jesse Jackson.  Bad for Hillary.  People wrote over and over that Hillary "sent Ferraro out" to spew the racial statements to cause a political racial divide.  I don't know that she did or didn't.  I would be totally disgusted if I found for certain that she did!!!!  Will not the same apply to Obama?  


by Southern Mouth on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:01:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "evangelicals" will come out (none / 0)

Of course not. 40 years ago things were a lot different. And this particular white man was on the side of the civil rights leaders. Still am. I never supported the fringe groups violence though. Still don't.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is no such thing as black racism (2.00 / 7)

Unfortunately, that is an uber-left doctrine shared by too many in our party.  There are even contemporary definitions of racism from left wing literature that limit the condition to whites.  Most of our party probably doesn't agree with these exclusionary definitions and doctrines but are willing to shrug off racist sentiments from African Americans nevertheless.  Of course, no such quarter is given to non-African Americans who even dare to bring up that race may be a factor of Obama support.


by lombard on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:06:29 PM EST

Re: There is no such thing as black racism (2.00 / 2)

Hopefully this incident will change all that. But I am not exactly hopeful.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

also the same PCness which ruins our image (2.00 / 2)

nationwide. I almost think the fact that Hillary ran against a politically correct candidate may actually boost her prospects if she wins the nod with working class white voters. Too many Democrats have ignored reverse racism, Hillary Clinton and Bill have stood against ALL discrimination, regular and reverse. And are the blacks gonna go vote for John McCain? I think its the daily kos crowd, not even the blacks, which are so intent on ignoring non-white racism and abetting it who may think they will stay home in November, but luckily, even Michael Moore knows better, so maybe he'd have to convince them, and I think he could


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:33:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh... (2.00 / 2)

I uh...dunno...uh


by nikkid on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:09:09 PM EST

Re: Uh... (2.00 / 1)

No kidding.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:40:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 1)

Fleaflicker: A suggestion, if I may: I'd just suggest taking out the "uh"'s in that blockquote. It kind of detracts from your main point.


by OrangeFur on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:11:28 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

The uhs are intentional. I have no respect for this man and have no desire to show him in a light that is in any way favorable. Consider the uhs an exaggeration. Everyone knows that Obama says uh a lot. Unless you are suggesting that I do this for additional publication to a wider audience and you are the conduit thereof the uhs will stay. Not that I don't respect you're opinion.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:30:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 3)

Okay, I understand. Thanks for replying.


by OrangeFur on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:31:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 4)

Obama does say "uh" a lot.  I dunno.. I guess taking them out would be better but it reads pretty true to me.


by JustJennifer on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:25:14 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

That's exactly the way I feel.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he is the Democratic version of George W. Bush (2.00 / 1)

a pure media creation, who comes off as bipartisan, but in reality smashes anyone who disagrees with them, calls them racist, as Bush calls his enemies unpatriotic. He stutters almost as much, but just gives better stump. Obama has less experience than Bush too, which is scary. The only reason I'd vote for him over any Republican is LOYALTY to my country, the pro-choice cause, ending the war in iraq possibly, which many Obama supporters who say they woudln't vote for Hillary if she is the nominee lack.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:36:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Using fillers like "uh" (none / 0)

is not the same as stuttering.  Even Bush doesn't actually stutter that much.  He just can't seem to formulate phrases properly.

I do wish Obama could cut down on the "uh"s a bit.  But they can be neutralized with a mastery of pitch and cadence, which he definately has.  And which Hillary Clinton will unfortunately never achieve.


by corph on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:21:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 5)

Thanks for this diary, FleaFlicker. I agree with your points, as usual. :)

Man, I can't believe how nasty this whole campaign has gotten and I place 99% of it at the feet of Axelrod. Here's a NYT piece on him from a year ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/magazi ne/01axelrod.t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Here's a bio from his company:

http://www.akpmedia.com/partners/daxelro d.html


by Nobama on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:26:05 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

Yep. And what goes around comes around.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:32:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 6)

I agree with you that Axelrod is behind much of this. He betrayed his part in it yesterday with his reaction to Ferraro's comments. As Geraldine said, she and David are long time associates and he could easily have said something to her and asked her to back down. Instead Axelrod fanned the flames because he found race-baiting was beneficial to his candidate.

He might feel a little differently today.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 1)

Didn't Obama meet him from his (Axelrod's) connection with Exelon?  Seems like I read that somewhere.


by PlainWords on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (none / 0)

I haven't a clue. Sounds like an interesting expose though.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (none / 0)

You're kidding right?  You write this entire diary and then call the geraldine Ferraro incidents race baiting by the Obama campaign?  And blame Axelrod for not privately telling her not to say the things she said publicly?


by shalca on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:05:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (none / 0)

What I am saying is that this could have ended with Axelrod calling Ferraro and asking her to either back off from her remarks or change them. They are long term associates and that is what adults do. He instead chose to exploit the situation and make public accusations about her to "help" his candidate.


by Fleaflicker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:24:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: axelrod (2.00 / 2)

exactly.

Axelrod is the new Rove.


by moevaughn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:02:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: axelrod (2.00 / 2)

And all the while they have been trying to pin that label on Penn.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: axelrod (2.00 / 0)

 exactly.


by moevaughn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: axelrod (none / 0)

Uh hu.  Yeah.  Sure.  So true.  Go head with your bad self.  "Shaking head".  Truthiness rules.  Telling it like it is.  If only everyone saw the truth as we obviously do.  Only WE truly understand.


by GobBluth on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:14:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

I wish Fleaflicker could be given his equal time on MSNBC.  


by JustJennifer on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:29:10 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

I think I would prefer a different corporation. But thanks.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 4)

MSNBC is never going to recognize the error of their ways, are they?


by JustJennifer on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

Unfortunately not. They must be benefiting from this financially or they wouldn't be doing it. I'm not sure just exactly where the money is coming from.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 1)

Higher ratings, higher advertising dollars?  


by JustJennifer on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:40:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 0)

Maybe so. I was "hoping" something more nefarious. Bummer....


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:02:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are right. (2.00 / 8)

This part really speaks to me:  

"The double standards by which Obama supporters are requiring us to judge their candidate are not only astounding they are ridiculous. .... When someone goes out of his way to insist that he is a Christian and uses the association with this pastor and this church as proof of it, we really need to be questioning..."

Wright is a preacher of hate, and for 20 years that's been just fine with Obama.  Now that he's running for President, he all of a sudden doesn't agree.

Yeah, right.


by PlainWords on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:40:22 PM EST

Re: You are right. (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, I don't buy any of it. I don't think many ordinary folks do either.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 4)

I love your diary and don't mean to step on it with my commentary. I just feel so strongly about this I had to write it. Our diaries compliment each other in my opinion.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:44:02 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 6)

FF - just want to tell you that since I found MyDD a few weeks ago, I have become a huge fan. Your posts are thoughtful and insightful and I enjoy reading them.  

Please keep up the good work!


by cmugirl90 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:52:18 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

Thank you. Wow!


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nobody thanked me! I'm offended. (2.00 / 2)

I'm in a bit of a periodic "mood" today - the hate rhetoric has gotten ridiculouser and ridiculouser.  Today, I just had to laugh a bunch!

I'm neither a Hillary nor Barack fan.  Gore, Gore, He's my man!  My husband repeatedly reminds me that I'm an idiot!


by Southern Mouth on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:35:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nobody thanked me! I'm offended. (2.00 / 1)

LOL!

I am a HUGE Al Gore fan and would have been supporting him if he had decided to get into this.

Thank you!


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nobody thanked me! I'm offended. (2.00 / 1)

I think Gore is way too smart.  He's a rock star now with his own time - why would you trade that in for the mess that someone is gonna have to deal with come January?


by cmugirl90 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:35:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nobody thanked me! I'm offended. (2.00 / 1)

I like Gore too... but he just wasn't tough enough for the race.  Same with Edwards.  Like them both a lot.  Wish that politics wasn't so rough and tumble but.. it is what it is.


by JustJennifer on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 2)

Obama's candidacy has managed to not only split the Democratic party, it has managed to undo the great strides we have made in the past 40 years toward achieving racial equality and equal opportunity.

The above quote is one of the most delusional and disturbing things I have yet to read on MyDD. And I have read some crazy shit here!

Seriously, Fleaflicker, you need to recognize that you are in a very small minority when you say something like that. I'm not saying that you can't say what you want to say - but it might be a useful reality check if you take a moment to remember that most Americans view both the Obama campaign AND the Clinton campaign as monumental achievements towards a more equal society.

I mean, just think for a second about the millions of black Obama voters you just viciously insulted. Think about that.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:39:17 PM EST

Re: My Own Special Comment (2.00 / 5)

Oh come on!  You are putting words in his mouth.  He hasn't insulted any black voters.  Obama HAS done a terrible disservice to racial equality -- by stirring up racism.  Racism is wrong no matter who does it.  Or do you think race-baiting is a good thing when a black candidate does it?


by PlainWords on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I won't come on (none / 0)

The  diarist said...

Obama's candidacy ... has managed to undo the great strides we have made in the past 40 years toward achieving racial equality and equal opportunity.

Well, like it or not, most black people support Obama's candidacy. The same candidacy that the diarist says is undoing the civil rights movement. These black voters are supporting a candidacy that is undoing the civil rights movement? The same civil rights movement that many of those SAME black voters participated in - often at great risk to themselves?

Thats a lot of bull....


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (2.00 / 1)

It isn't my fault that people are being bamboozled and hoodwinked by Obama.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:18:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (none / 0)

So, you are saying that 85% or more of the black voting population is being bamboozled AND hoodwinked?


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (2.00 / 4)

NO,EVERYBODY VOTING FOR HIM IS!

BUT THANKS FOR TRYING TO PLAY "THE LETS CALL YOU A RACIST GAME" WITH US TODAY!


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (none / 0)

Nice caps. Really helps get that point across.

I'm not accusing anyone of being racist, I just want people to think about how the things you say in these diaries might sound to your run-of-the-mill black voter.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (2.00 / 1)

I am more curious to see how the black supporters of Obama respond to these videos. And to Obama's 20 year close personal relationship with this man.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:50:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (2.00 / 0)

Thanks. I needed a good laugh.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (2.00 / 3)

I am curious to see how black voters will react once these videos are more circulated -- AS THEY WILL BE -- if not now then in October.  

I have no way of predicting the response within the black community, but I have a hard time believing many of the African Americans I know will

  1. agree with this kind of hate speech and
  2. be incapable of seeing how this screws Obama's chances in the fall

But then, I'm just speculating.  (and hoping for som outrage from the black community to match mine)


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't come on (2.00 / 1)

The black friends I have do not agree with this. They aren't that type of people.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Support (2.00 / 2)

 I would think even many of the AAs who initially preferred HRC, then got excited when BHO became viable and went to him, may go back to HRC after hearing his pastor spewing damnation from his pulpit.  Doesn't sound like a very loving faith, and many AAs might not like this either.


by moevaughn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:09:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Support (2.00 / 1)

It would b nice if they would. I am very interested in their response.

How will John Lewis respond? Someone should ask him.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Support (2.00 / 1)

I think demanding the AA support either candidacy is a little unfair.

I do tend to think the Reverend Wright sort of comments are not a shocking for AAs who are more familiar this church. I can see where the language  could be seen as promoting ingroup unity and success, not denigrating the outgroups. I am not saying it is okay, but I discount a lot of the "Men are incompetent without women" sort of statements from the NOW colleagues that could easily rankle people as pretty man-hating.

I am not defending Wright--I think he takes the rhetoric too far. Obama should see that and distance himself. Further, I think it would be helpful for Obama to explain what is appealing about the church since we are getting the pretty unappealing portions front and center.  


by hctb on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:32:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

a better question: (none / 0)

why does Obama go to an all black church, instead of a multiculturally open one?


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:37:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a better question: (none / 0)

It's not an "all black" church, it has white members and white preachers.  The United Church of Christ is actually a predominantly white denomination.  The Trinity church is simply located in a predominantly black neighborhood, and up until recently had an afrocentric preacher (Rev. Wright has since retired).

The Trinity church is also home to Oprah Winfrey and the rapper Common.


by davisb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:47:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you know what I meant (2.00 / 2)

why does he attend the Trinity Church, which only has black people and preachers? I can understand it personally, but to many americans, this will not play well in the general election. Many may feel he is in a racially exclusionary church. Obama DOES have to represent ALL Americans, who are 75 percent white(69 non hispanic, 6 percent hispanic white), 12 percent black, 13 percent hispanic.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:52:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you know what I meant (none / 0)

That's what I'm saying, though, the Trinity church may be predominantly African American, but it has white members and white preachers, too.  

The church has played a huge part in alleviating poverty in Chicago and fighting against the drug epidemic.  Rev. Wright may say a lot of controversial/really stupid stuff, but, on the whole, the church is very much a part of "what is right in America."


by davisb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:56:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a better question: (none / 0)

Who cares? He can go to any church he damn well likes.  There's no requirement that he go to an ethnically diverse church. Lots of people go to all white or all black churches.  So what?

That said, he needs to find a church where the pastor doesn't spew hate speech. Call me crazy, but I seriously doubt that "Reverend" Wright just started saying this crap recently.  What does this say about that fantastic judgment that Obamanauts are always talking about?  He's been going to this church for all of these years, and now he doesn't agree?

I'm not a Christian, but my mother is, and this doesn't sound anything like the Christianity she talks about.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:53:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

well it may matter come General Election time (none / 0)

and if he gets the nomination, race will obviously be the talk of the nation. I voted Hillary, but its not looking so likely. But say Obama gets the nod, how will he explain to middle America when SOMEONE, who could be anyone, a person at a town hall debate, or a pundit, or a 527 ad with Jeremiah Wright's face all over it asks "why does his church only allow black people?" And he will need an answer which will placate people. The last thing we need is a candidate who is painted on the Farrakhan fringes.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:08:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well it may matter come General Election time (none / 0)

He will simply answer out that the Trinity church has hundreds of white congregants, a bunch of white preachers, and is a part of a predominantly white denomination.  The Trinity Church does NOT "only allow" black people.  Rev. Wright even mentions the white membership in a bunch of the videos floating around...

As someone else has already pointed out, the racial make-up of the congregation is very much NOT the problem here.


by davisb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:13:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well it may matter come General Election time (none / 0)

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

This does not sound like it is predominantly white. I mean, maybe you are right, but their website indicates they are at least majority AA.


by hctb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:16:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well it may matter come General Election time (none / 0)

The denomination itself is predominantly white.  This one church within the domination is in a predominantly black neighborhood and has a predominantly black congregation.  It has had (up until recently) an afrocentric preacher, hence the language in the quotes.  There are, however, hundreds of white members of the Trinity church.


by davisb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:19:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well it may matter come General Election time (none / 0)

read the quote above. His enemies are going to frame it by the description. The fact is almost everyone who goes to Obama's SPECIFIC CHURCH BUILDING is black. Sure, it does not de jur exclude anyone, but neither does the Black Caucus. The fact is this is an albatross for the general election, especially with the pastor's divisive comments. If you want to pretend that this will be ignored during the campaign season, that no one will mind, go ahead. you are only deluding yourself. He needs to address this or something in a definitive manner why he attends this church.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]