Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack a B,

according to the Drum Major Institute, if you average their newly released 2007 grades with earlier ones:

Hillary Clinton:
  1. A+
  2. A
  3. B
  4. A

Barack Obama:
  1. A+
  2. C

Obama received a poor grade in 2005 for two votes. First, he voted for H.R. 6, the Energy Policy Act of 2005. The Drum Major Institute commented:

The most startling thing about this legislation is what it does not do. In the first place, the 1,700-page multi-billion dollar bill fails to help middle-class consumers squeezed by high gas and fuel costs. The rollback in public safety protections also puts middle-class families at risk, for example by exempting oil and gas companies from the provisions of the Safe Drinking Water Act when these companies inject carcinogenic chemicals into the ground. At the same time, the deregulation of public utilities exposes the middle class to a different kind of risk: stemming from increased consolidation of utilities that could raise electric rates and manipulate energy markets. What the bill does do is provide massive taxpayer subsidies - to the tune of $85.1 billion dollars - for some of the world's most profitable corporations, so that, among other things, they can drill on public land while paying the public less, ultimately leaving middle-class families to pick up a bigger share of the cost of public services. Finally, although the legislation comes at a time of overwhelming scientific evidence about the dangers of global warming and increased concern about the nation's dependence on foreign oil, it does very little to address either problem, neglecting to even increase fuel efficiency standards for cars.

The Union of Concerned Scientists commented:

Congress chose to largely follow the path of a 19th century fossil-fueled past instead of crafting an energy bill for the 21st century that would lead us to a clean energy future. The Union of Concerned Scientists opposed the bill because it fails to reduce our dependence on oil, fails to address global warming, fails to reduce home heating and gasoline prices, fails to significantly increase the deployment of renewable energy and actually increases the threat of nuclear terrorism.

Obama also voted for S. 5, the Class Action Fairness Act of 2005. The Drum Major Institute commented:

While moving lawsuits from state to federal courts may seem harmless enough, in effect it will prevent many middle-class Americans injured by defective products, manipulated by deceptive marketing, or discriminated against by unfair employment practices from ever being able to hold corporate wrongdoers accountable. As a result, the threat of lawsuits will be less of a deterrent to corporations that engage in deceptive or discriminatory practices or seek to cut corners by skimping on product safety. Moving state cases to the federal courts is particularly harmful because it is state judges, not the federal judiciary, that are most familiar with the state consumer protection laws under which wrongdoers are sued. As a result, federal judges usually won't certify cases based on state law, which effectively prevents even the most legitimate cases from ever being heard if they are forced into federal court. That means ordinary citizens have lost an important means of getting recourse to the laws their democratically-elected state legislators passed. To make matters worse, the federal courts are increasingly stacked with judges hostile to consumer and workers' rights. What's more, the federal courts are already overburdened, struggling to cope in a timely manner with the caseload already before them. Further clogging the federal system with state cases may slow down everyone's access to justice. Finally, the "rights" guaranteed to plaintiffs by this Act, such as greater scrutiny for cases in which settlement terms cause plaintiffs to suffer a net loss, don't actually provide as much new protection as it appears because they primarily duplicate already-existing provisions of the rules of civil procedure. Although provisions reining in low-value coupon settlements are positive, they don't warrant the bill's other very harmful provisions.

The Consumer Federation of America commented:

Congress should seek to hold negligent wrongdoers accountable for their actions. Yet this bill does just the opposite: it places obstacles to accountability by providing fewer incentives for companies to keep their products safe and their actions fair and by creating mechanisms to delay and ultimately deny justice to injured consumers.

If the Drum Major Institute examined committee votes then Obama's grade might have been lower, based on his actions regarding S. 256, the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention And Consumer Protection Act Of 2005. The Harper's article "Barack Obama Inc." and an Obama's friend sum him up:

In one of his earliest votes, Obama joined a bloc of mostly conservative and moderate Senate Democrats who helped pass a G.O.P.-driven class-action "reform" bill. The bill had been long sought by a coalition of business groups and was lobbied for aggressively by financial firms, which constitute Obama's second biggest single bloc of donors.

Although The Bond Market Association didn't lobby directly on the legislation, [Mike] Williams [vice president for legislative affairs at The Bond Market Association] took note of Obama's vote. "He's a Democrat, and some people thought he'd do whatever the trial lawyers wanted, but he didn't do that," he said. "That's a testament to his character." Obama has voted on one bill that was of keen interest to Williams's members: last year's hotly contested bankruptcy bill, which made filing for bankruptcy more difficult and gives creditors more recourse to recover debts. Obama voted against the bill, but Williams was pleased that he did side with The Bond Market Association position on a number of provisions. Most were minor technical matters, but he also opposed an important amendment, which was defeated, that would have capped credit-card interest rates at 30 percent. "He studied the issue," Williams said. "Some assumed he would just go along with consumer advocates, but he voted with us on several points. He understood the issue. He wasn't closed-minded. A lot of people found that very refreshing."

Not that all this substance will have any effect on some progressives' "against their interests" love for Obama.



Display:


On domestic policy the evidence is overwhelming (2.00 / 2)

that Clinton is more progressive. It's bad for progressive politics that that fact is not doing her enough good.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:33:41 PM EST

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (2.00 / 2)

Nice diary! The Progressive Punch website pretty much agrees with the Drum Major Institute. You can check out their rankings Clinton's and Obama's lifetime voting records here.

http://www.progressivepunch.org/members. jsp?search=selectScore&chamber=Senat e&scoreSort=lifetime

The Class Action "Fairness" Act vote was an especially disturbing vote to me. I've read that Obama justified his vote afterwards by that he didn't want people suing the the Starbucks restaurant chain over lukewarm coffee and getting coupons.

http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2 005_02_14_greed_gone_wild_tort_reform_vi ctory_for_george_w._bush_defeat_for_ordi nary_americans_re_class_action_lawsuits. asp

That's a good one, Mr. O!


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:59:32 PM EST

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (none / 0)

Obama also mentioned to problem of forum shopping in that interview, which is a much bigger problem. The problem in connection with coupons isn't the coupons themselves but rather how attorneys' fees are awarded in cases involving compensation in the form of coupons.

You and I have gone back and forth regarding CAFA before, so I'm not inclined to provided a long defense of it again here. But, I've yet to hear anyone offer specific examples of justice denied as a result of this legislation. Giving federal courts original jurisdiction of certain class-action lawsuits (those having "minimal diversity" and involving more than $5 million in damages) doesn't introduce any new substantive law or otherwise limit the remedies available to class-action plaintiffs and class members. Opponents of CAFA just like state courts more because class certification tends to be far easier, and they can bring the case is notoriously plaintiff-friendly state court venues. These are very principled reasons for opposing CAFA. Unless someone can point to a pattern of unjust denials of class-certification by federal judges, and make a case for forum-shopping, then I see why opposition to CAFA is the "progressive" position.

Moreover, a person who has been injured or damaged due to a civil wrong doesn't lose his individual cause of action just because class-certification is denied. He can always bring a typical lawsuit.

Again, if someone can point me to a case where justice was not served because of CAFA, I'd be willing to rethink my support of the legislation.


by DPW on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 04:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (none / 0)

Should say "These are NOT very principled reasons for opposing CAFA."


by DPW on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 04:30:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (none / 0)

First of all, I'm not a lawyer, but as you can tell, you didn't convince me. First of all, you ask for people to provide an example where justice was not served because of CAFA. There may be such an example, but I certainly wouldn't know of it, and yuo no doubt are aware that it would be hard to prove that CAFA resulted in justice not being served in a particular case.

Second, you stated that the bigger problem was with forum shopping. And yet, the some legal scholars that CAFA only exacerbates problems with forum shopping. How do you respond to the following:

An example can best illustrate how CAFA will, in practice, encourage forum shopping, cause lawyers on both sides to engage in gamesmanship, and force federal courts to create federal common law. Consider a recently filed class action against The Home Depot stores in Florida for overcharging 10% on tool rentals.309 The Home Depot is an Atlanta-based corporation, and the proposed plaintiff class is comprised of Florida citizens.310 Before CAFA, the plaintiffs could have added the individual Florida stores as defendants to destroy diversity and have the case remanded to state court.311 After CAFA, the addition of same-state defendants does not matter---the corporation and the plaintiffs' class are diverse. Thus, minimal diversity exists, and defendants can remove this class action to federal court.312

The plaintiffs will then try to take advantage of CAFA's two jurisdictional exceptions. The plaintiffs will first argue that the State Action exception should apply, because greater than two-thirds of class members are citizens of Florida.313 The Home Depot, however, is a citizen of Georgia for diversity purposes. The court is likely to determine that The Home Depot is the primary "defendant in interest" and therefore that the State Action exception does not apply.314

Second, the plaintiffs will argue that the  atchall exception should apply and the federal court should therefore decline jurisdiction. This exception requires that the judge find that between one-third and two-thirds of the plaintiffs are citizens of the same state as the primary defendants.315 The plaintiffs will argue that the local franchises are the primary defendants; defendants will argue that the mother corporation is the primary defendant. The defendants will further argue that the proposed class of plaintiffs should be expanded to include more non-Florida residents in order to reduce the number of same-state plaintiffs to less than one-third of the class and force the suit into federal court.316

Because CAFA class actions generally involve interstate corporate activities, defendants will generally be able to successfully argue that the number of non-state citizens who should be in the plaintiff class is greater than the plaintiffs assert. It becomes readily apparent how CAFA provokes gamesmanship on both sides of class action litigation.

Assuming that the plaintiffs are able to tailor their complaints to avoid federal court, fifty different state courts may have to adjudicate fifty different class actions, which are all based on the same underlying occurrence.317 This will lead to a "greater expenditure of legal resources and [will] impose demands on a much larger number of courts."318 It will further risk "inconsistent judgments" and "strategic settlements" throughout the nation.319

http://law.fordham.edu/publications/arti cles/500flspub7432.pdf

And as you yourself acknowledged when we last discussed CAFA, you are not sure whether the state attorneys general who opposed the CAFA bill might have had just cause for their opposition.

If anyone cares to read our previous conversation, it can be found here:

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/2/19/1 05636/547/13#13

Because I am not a lawyer, I do defer to the authroity of others in this matter. I've heard your arguments, but I've heard others who feel differently. I do know that Wall Street very much wanted this legislation, so my perhaps it's just knee-jerk reaction on my part to put more faith in what others have to say on this bill.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 05:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Troll rater (none / 0)


Oops! Sometimes I'm sloppy with the drag-down bar. I'll fix it and try not to do that again.

Thanks!


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 06:45:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (2.00 / 2)

It's disturbing how many officially/ostensibly 'progressive' websites -- booman, myleftwing, counterpunch, tpmcafe, huntingtonpost, the nation and on and on -- are full-scale Obama campaign sites in 2008. Backing the less progressive candidate (at least on domestic policy it's exceptionally obvious), and doing so not with substance but with a hate campaign against the more progressive candidate, does great damage to progressive causes.

What a large number of chumps or 'sold outs' there are this year.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 04:10:32 PM EST

And AirObama, how could I forget?? (none / 0)

AirObama, the travesty that AirAmerica has become. The only major alternative to Rush and all the right-wing talk has turned into a no holds barred sleazy attack machine of the less progressive Democratic presidential candidate.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 04:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (none / 0)

Clinton is more progressive, but Obama is too liberal to win a general election.  Try to keep up with the conventional wisdom around here.


by Skaje on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:27:39 PM EST

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (none / 0)

I haven't heard any Democrat say that Obama is too liberal to win the general election. Whoever we nominate will be called too liberal.

But on health care, the housing crisis, and other issues, he's more centrist. There's no doubt about that.


by OrangeFur on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:46:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who's more progressive? Hillary an A-, Barack (none / 0)

When the National Journal ranking came out, there was a lot of concern trolling here about Obama being too liberal to get enough independent and moderate support to win the presidency.  Soon after, conventional wisdom shifted back to Obama being too conservative.


by Skaje on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 08:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So what? (none / 0)

What's your opinion, who do you think is more/less progressive? I hate to even say "based on the substance in my diary" cuz you'd think that would be implied.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 09:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So what? (none / 0)

Personally, I don't see much difference policy-wise between Obama and Clinton.  They vote together on just about everything in the Senate.  They're solid on all the major progressive issues.  This campaign has come down to style and rhetoric (as well as race and gender, unfortunately).


by Skaje on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So what? (none / 0)

Maybe we can talk about substance instead. That's what my diary is about. Obama is definitely to the right of Clinton on domestic policy, on a wide swath of issues: charter schools, Social Security, his response to the subprime mortgage crisis, his limited and voluntarist take on health care insurance, his support for the credit card company position on their interest rates, just for starters. And you can add his 2005 votes that caused him to get that C I note in my diary.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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