Pentagon Debunks Clinton's Pre-War Claim of Saddam/Al Qaeda Link

From Tim Dickinson: Pentagon Definitively Debunks Hillary Clinton's Pre-War Claim of Saddam/Al Qaeda Link:

An exhaustive Pentagon review has established definitively that there was no pre-war operational link between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Al Qaeda.

So here's the question for Hillary Clinton. In the senator's war-authorization speech in October 2002, she claimed this:

Saddam "has given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members."

The National Intelligence Estimate at the time cast serious doubts on any Al Qaeda/Iraq link. But Clinton has acknowledged she did not read the NIE.

So what was her source for this faulty intelligence?

And why did Senator Clinton believe it credible enough to use as a linchpin justification for war?


Poll
Was Hillary Clinton wrong to use a false Saddam/Al-Qaeda link when justifying her vote to go to war with Iraq?
Yes
No

Votes: 11
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Obama Wasn't Even a Senator Then (none / 0)

Nice try at avoiding the question at hand.  You want to discuss your unrelated issue, go make a diary post.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:39:52 PM EST

Pretty Weak Diary Here (2.00 / 2)

Read the rest of the speech instead of just this one line.  That isn't the "lynchpin" of anything, just one factor.  The notion that Al Qaeda and Iraq had a collaborative relationship wasn't thoroughly debunked until the September 11th commission did so in 2004, well after this vote.

Anyway the answers to your question are in the very speech you're quoting from... not that I suppose you are actually looking for answers.


by TooFolkGR on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:45:37 PM EST

Re: Pretty Weak Diary Here (none / 0)

This is bullshit, this "link" was highly dubious at best and if Hillary and her buddies Cheney and Wolfowitz had thought about it, or used non-cherry picked evidence, they would have seen that. There were more ties to Pakistan than Iraq, there were more ties to Saudi Arabia than Iraq, hell there were ties to the US than Iraq (there were more ties to Iraq than Iran though, so don't let anyone sell you this lie twice-- AQ wanted to kill Saddam, AQ looks at Iran in much the same way they view Israel).


by Socraticsilence on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pentagon Debunks Clinton's Pre-War Claim of Sa (2.00 / 1)

How come you didn't put the whole quote, which said there was no link to 9/11?

"He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001."

And of course, this part of the speech is always left out:

" While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq. I know that the Administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later. But if we get a clear requirement for unfettered inspections, I believe the authority to use force to enforce that mandate is inherent in the original 1991 UN resolution, as President Clinton recognized when he launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998."

...

"My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world."

...

"And finally, on another personal note, I come to this decision from the perspective of a Senator from New York who has seen all too closely the consequences of last year's terrible attacks on our nation. In balancing the risks of action versus inaction, I think New Yorkers who have gone through the fires of hell may be more attuned to the risk of not acting. I know that I am.

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed."


by cmugirl90 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:01:57 PM EST

Re: Pentagon Debunks Clinton's Pre-War Claim of Sa (none / 0)

"...it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort."

And that, really, is the money quote, cmugirl90.  

Think for a moment of the "president" to whom this comment was addressed.  Yuck.  


by bwitte on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

all leading to an immoral choice... (none / 0)

hillary vote to invade iraq.  you can justify it all you like -- shall we discuss what the meaning of is is? -- but the results are the same.  she made the wrong choice (again).  barack made the right one.  why on earth would we want someone with such flawed political judgment answering the phone in a crisis?  i like it better when america stands on the side of what's right, not on the side of wrong...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: all leading to an immoral choice... (none / 0)

Obama didn't make a choice. He was a part time state senator in one of the bluest districts of the nation. The risky choice for him would have been supporting the war.

Clinton didn't endorse war. She endorsed disarming Hussein and using the authorization that Hans Blix directly asked for to accomplish that. Bush didn't abide by the terms of the authorization. You can deny that all you want but it's true.


by Little Otter on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:07:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

pointing out that hillary is an idiot... (none / 0)

is probably not the best way to support her.  by voting for the aumf, she choose to trust bush, believe saddam hussein and invade iraq.  if she didn't understand that she was voting to invade iraq (something i know better, because of my own personal interaction with her in 2002) then she was the only person in america who didn't understand that.

like i said, arguing that hillary is an idiot probably not the best way to support her.  she trusted bush, i didn't -- and i don't.  she stood with bush (and defended his choices), i don't.  the choice is really stark: support someone who believed in and trusted bush with the most important vote she made or someone who actually knew better.  i want the person with better judgment, the person who didn't trust george bush, answering that phone at 3am when there's an international crisis.  at least barack was smart enough -- from 1000 miles away -- to see through bush...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pentagon Debunks Clinton's Pre-War Claim of Sa (none / 0)

Exactly, thanks for making another of my points: "it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort."  Great judgment there.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pentagon Debunks Clinton's Pre-War Claim of Sa (none / 0)

Here's my question:  At the time, 80% of the country felt scared and thought we needed to do something (with the exception, I guess, of Obama and folks in the blogosphere). The intelligence was there (but we now know it to be faulty) - who would have thought Colin Powell would have been so adamant at the UN based on the intelligence? So, what would you have had THE SENATOR FROM NEW YORK do (you know, where they were actually attacked)?

The point is, Obama keeps touting his superior "judgment" based on a speech he gave in friendly territory at an anti-war rally, when the truth is, a) he defended the same vote based on what the Senate knew when he endorsed and supported John Kerry, b) he admitted he didn't have access to all the information c) he criticizes Hillary for not reading the NIE (which, of course, he didn't either before making comments, but which of course, she got briefed on by the PEOPLE WHO WROTE IT [where she could ask questions and read body language], and d) he said in 2004, that there really wasn't any difference in his position and GWB's on Iraq.

Great.  He was smarter than 77 US Senators.  Good for him.  The problem I have with him (among many) is WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO NOW?  Even this week, we are hearing conflicting stories.

In other words, show me the money.


by cmugirl90 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:53:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pentagon Debunks Clinton's Pre-War Claim of Sa (none / 0)

80% didn't feel that, that's always been a lie.


by Socraticsilence on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:38:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it doesn't... (none / 0)

but i'm pretty sure you knew that already.  for the same reasons that barack knew it was immoral to invade iraq before we did it (relying on the just war tradition), he understood that once we got in, we had to be careful about how we disengaged.  if you didn't realize it, we're not somalia.

the other reason why barack always has said that we have to be as careful about getting out as we were careless in getting in is because he actually understands american politics and recognizes that republicans will try to use our withdrawal as a wedge issue against democrats.  you may not care whether democrats win elections, but barack has proven selflessly that he does.  so setting up the "who lost iraq" argument is not part of barack's agenda.

but i'm sure you knew that already.  you undoubtedly support a candidate who made the immoral choice because she was scared of bush and rove and how they would use her vote against her.  just another one of those capitulations that hillary has done throughout her career -- even if she didn't wear a pink dress when she did it.  hillary was wrong about iraq, and barack was right.  then as now.

but i'm sure you knew that already (assuming that you're not one of those pro-war democrats)...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:23:58 PM EST

Someone needs huggies (none / 0)

For someone who talks about future, and harps about past, this is a dumbass diary.

It is like asking me why i went to shit on a potty instead of the actual toilet - because at that time in the past, I only knew about potty!

If you think you are smart by claiming something as a hindsight, then you need to raise your IQ.


by Sandeep on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:33:48 PM EST

Take it up with Hans Blix (none / 0)

Blix wanted the authorization so they could force through unfettered inspections of Iraq's suspected weapon cache and, hopefully, prevent war. Hillary agreed that inspections were our best shot at stopping Bush and gave Blix the authorization we asked for.

Bush didn't abide by the terms of the authorization and that's on him.


by Little Otter on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:05:38 PM EST

Misleading Diary (none / 0)

Hillary voted for the authorization to give Bush leverage to go to war IF it was necessary because Sadaam wouldn't let the inspectors in. She was NEVER for the war because Sadaam did let the inspectors in.

Hillary was in essence voting for the threat of war, not war itself. Had Gore been president, he might have wanted the same tool Bush had (the threat of war) to force Sadaam to let the inspectors in, but he would not have invaded once the inspectors were let in.

Bush is the only one who made the final decision to invade Iraq. None of the Democrats running this year, including Clinton, would have invaded Iraq.

Obama gave a speech against the war. Obama did not give a speech against the Iraq resolution. BTW, he gave that speech while he was running for reelection in the state senate in one of the most liberal districts in the country. He couldn't have said anything else there. It was not great courage on his part. Since being in the U.S. senate, he has voted the exact same way as Clinton on Iraq.


by mmorang on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:25:42 PM EST

so hillary was an idiot??? (none / 0)

the only person in america who didn't know what bush wanted to do???

this is your argument for supporting hillary?  that she was too stupid to know that she was voting for war?  it doesn't pass the smell test.  hillary may be as stupid as you infer, but that's no reason to think she should be president.  we want change, not a fool, in the white house...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 07:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: so hillary was an idiot??? (none / 0)

Sadaam didn't think the "stupid" would invade his country and neither did Clinton. Why? Because it is an amazingly stupid thing to do.

Obama said that he didn't know how he would have voted had he been in the senate. He has voted EXACTLY the same as Clinton on Iraq since he's been in the senate.

Obama lost about 75% of the white vote in the Mississippi DEMOCRATIC primary. He lost the Republican vote to Hillary as well. He will be DESTROYED in the general election and Hillary knows it, and there's not much she can do about it. The lunitics have taken over the asylum.


by mmorang on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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