Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama

by Bella, Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:28:09 AM EST

Last night I went to see Hillary in Scranton, Pa. It was packed to the rafters. The line was about 1/2 mile long! That wasn't the most amazing thing.

The thing that surprised me was the amount of young people that were there. We were surrounded by college kids in line. It took over 2 hours of standing in the cold before we got in, so there was a lot of time to chat.

The biggest concern that they had was that people think that all young people are for Obama. They told me that's just not true. One articulate young woman talked about her conversations with young Obama supporters. She asks them why they support him. She says they don't know why, he just seems to be the flavor of the week for them. Her opinion is that those students are incredibly long on emotion and short on information. They have no idea what Obama will or will not do. He makes them feel good.

They also told me of efforts on campus to register students Democratic. They all wanted to see more activity on campus for Hillary. Their enthusiasm was a lot of fun to see.

The young Hillary supporters with whom I spoke were very well informed. I was impressed and excited to see so many youth in attendance. I estimated that they made up almost half of the crowd! (at least 3500 got in, more were turned away.)

Let me tell you, Hillary's speech was as inspiring as anything I've heard from O. The big difference is that it was also full of substance. Of course, she has deep roots here. Her grandfather came to the area when he was three years old with his 10 brothers and sisters. She still has family here. The crowd really embraced her.

On the way home, we spotted a knot of about 50 young people staking out the old Rodham homestead, as Hillary is known to do a drive by when she's in town.

So if Pennsylvania is for Clinton, NE Pa is a hotbed of Clinton support. It also seems to be a hotbed of youth support for her. I wonder if the media will ever pick up on the fact that not all young voters are hot for Obama.

By the way, this is my first diary here at MyDD, so be gentle.




Tags: Hillary, Pennsylvania Primary, youth vote, Obama (all tags)

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Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

I wonder if the media will pick up on the fact that not all women or Hispanics are for Clinton.


What would LBJ do?
by Socks The Cat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:29:28 AM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

And that the Clinton supporting demographics constitute even less, thus, that is why she is losing the primary?


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:56:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Half a mile.. (2.00 / 5)

Go Hillary..

Half a mile.. You know, somehow I am not surprised.

This is really a historic election. They are throwing everything they have at her, and she's still in there.

She is REAL, she ISN'T going away, she's going to do her best.

She is going to WIN. I can feel it - she's over the hump.

People are so sick of all the lies.

Hillary is going to be the first female President of the USA.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Half a mile.. (none / 0)

The only way she wins is by losing.  She can win the nomination but not without imploding the party doing it.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:19:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not in 2008 (none / 0)

she's not.


by corph on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Half a mile.. (none / 0)

I think such sentiments would be justified a month or so ago, but as time goes on, her chances narrow.  While Obama didn't win the Ohio and Texas primaries, the momentum accumulated by a month of friendly contests allowed him to take a major chunck out of Clinton's support there.  Those victories actually took her further away from the nomination as those were one of her few chances to catch up in the delegate count.  She utterly failed.  Within a week, those minimal gains have been cancelled by delegates from two smaller states.  And that's not including the strong super delegate tide in Obama's direction.

So,

She is going to WIN. I can feel it - she's over the hump.

She's over the hump like Huckabee was after February 5.  She may have been prematurely written off (the over-simplified nature of the media coverage of the race is probably a big part of this), but with a steadily widening delegate gap, Hillary is far from winning.


by Meng Bomin on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:37:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

They already have.


by Montague on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:21:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Have we fallen so far that we are disparaging primary voters for being Liberals?


by Trent on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Don't forget independents!

Such a worthless group, they are, to any Presidential campaign.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:47:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Congrats to your first diary. And good to see your and others enthusiasm about Hillary Clinton.

But...

Not all young people all for Obama, you are right, but a large majority of them. And it would suit you well to show some respect to the supporters of the other candidate. The empty rhetoric talking point is obviously a big deal even with younger Clinton supporters - it doesn't make it any more true. Unless you can show me where exactly he lacks substance, I can't really take it seriously.

If you want to make me believe that I'm a cult member and just following my feelings, good luck. You couldn't be more wrong.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:35:05 AM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 5)

Excuse me, but I never mentioned anything about you being a cult member.  The young people told me that in their experience, young Obama supporters have no idea why they support him. It wasn't a talking point.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:44:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

I quote: The big DIFFERENCE is that it was also full of substance.

That's not a report, that's a personal opinion. I enjoyed your diary, I was only trying to help by showing how the diary could be improved by avoiding cliches like the one mentioned.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:02:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 4)

I have heard some of Obama's speeches. They are chock full of slogans 'yes we can' and wonderful rhetoric about working together, reaching out across the aisle, etc. I freely admit that he can turn a phrase and taps into raw emotions we've all felt what with 7 years of being beaten down by Bush. He has a gift of oratory, that cannot be denied. What I did not hear from him is HOW he will accomplish those wonderful things.


I was even considering voting for him for a few weeks. When the NAFTA thing happened, I started researching his background. That's when those feel-good words of his started wearing off.


Say what you will, I now find his words empty expressions of emotion. Hillary, on the other hand, outlined HOW we will get there from here. You have your opinions, I have mine.


If he is our nominee and the media finally starts looking seriously at his background, we're sunk in November. I firmly believe that.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

But did you watch the debates?  There is substance there with Obama.  Sometimes his stump speeches (or at least the parts played on TV) seem like big pep rallies, but when it came time to talk substance, he was all there, too.  


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:27:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 4)

Good question. I didn't watch them all, just 2. After delving into his record, and associations, in the Il state legislature, and as Jr. Senator from Illinois, I find myself not entirely trusting what he says. One of the things that sealed the deal with me is his failure to hold any hearings on Europe, or NATO or especially Afghanistan. He could have shown us that he means what he says about Afghanistan, instead, he blew it off to campaign. To me, that in and of itself showed that perhaps ambition is the driving force behind him. Don't listen to what they say, it's what they do (or don't do) that's real.


 I'm trying to be honest without being insulting. The explosion in the blogosphere of infighting is disgusting to me. Obama supporters are my fellow democrats, not the enemy. If he is the nominee, I will have a hard time voting for him, but probably will.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Here are three questions that should be easy for you (as a knowledgeable HRC supporter) to answer.

1) In her career as a legislator, name the passed and signed into law legislation where HRC has shown that she can change minds and pass difficult legislation.  Results?  Doer?  Changemaker?  Solutions?  

BHO in IL: tax cuts, health care, health centers, ethics reform, justice system reform

BHO in DC: arms control, ethics reform, government disclosure of spending viewable on the internet

HRC: All bluster, no cattle

Taking credit for the domestic and foriegn policy work of others is a sign of weakness not strength.  I agree HRC has experience, but she shoots herself in the foot when she exaggerates.  Her exaggeration shows that she doesn't think her actual accomplishments are good enough.

2) How do you explain this:

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editor blog/034

3) Why was HRC trying to pass an unconstitutional flag burning ban?  Political posturing for a future presidential bid rather than working to make our country better by getting legislation signed into law?


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 2)

You notice Bella, none of the Obama supporters are able to respond to your points.

This means you're right, and they're trying to obfuscate the issue, an old old OLD school propaganda technique.

Ignore them, they're the usual suspects.

You'll be bored with them, soon, just like everybody else.


by Marsha1 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Don't forget to tell her that she should do more than ignore my questions about facts that she can't answer.  She is suppose to call me a Kool Aid, messiah cult member, and then she should troll rate my questions about the facts that show HRC doesn't hold up under the scrutiny.

You need to make sure all the HRC supporters know the rules.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Hillary's big talking point is education. Guess what her policies over her career on education have been impressive, but no real tangible results. THe Clintons caved in to the teachers unions. No significant in education over the last 30 years in Arkansas, NY or whereever the Clintons happened to be.


by Pravin on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:04:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 2)

Let me clue you in, Professor. Unless you can speak to me in a reasonable tone, I feel no obligation to  read or answer your posts.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can I take a stab at this one? (2.00 / 1)

Maybe she doesn't agree with burning flags, especially in a country full of veterans, disabled veterans and their families.

I happen to agree with her.  So do lots of other Americans.  You can see her vote as politically expedient or you can see it as reflecting the will of the American people.  

Kind of depends where you are coming from.

oh yeah, and let me save whoever the trouble -- I already know she single-handedly responsible for all those dead and disabled soldiers.  

Still don't want some a-hole burning the flag in front of them.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can I take a stab at this one? (none / 0)

The key word was 'unconstitutional.'

The idea of flag burning makes me physically sick.  But, I love the constitution, it's the base of our society.  


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:10:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Cause I really hate this argument about his committee hearings.

The Committee he is on deals with Europe. Central Asia deals with Afghanistan. It's not within the committee's jurisdiction to talk about Afghanistan, unless it is being done so to discuss Europe's role there.

That being said, in terms of NATO, there was one planned joint hearing, which has been planned for months now, happening TODAY regarding NATO expansion and Afghanistan. It was planned purposely to be held near to the NATO summit in Bucharest.

This is an empty talking point by the Clinton campaign.


by PAprogressive on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

This more a complaint about substance can people pelase quit refering to Obama as the "Junior Senator from Illinois" as if that was a substantive difference between him an Hillary, I mean you people do realize that she's also a Junior Senator, right?


by Socraticsilence on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 2)

"But did you watch the debates?"

Did you research Obama?

Bella made a great point.

Are you speaking without being fully informed about your candidate, and the questions surrounding finance, and his political career?

How do you justify his association, his long long association with Rezko?

John Thomas, the FBI mole in the Rezko trial, might have some interesting things to say about Obama, and Rezko.

Would you want a man who has shown a deep pattern of corruption, and indifference to his constituents (since the inception of his political career), as President?

Don't we already have a President, and VP, like that?


by Marsha1 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:53:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

What Obama did with Exelon and how he folded for money is an example of what a person he is in reality. I wonder how some educated liberals in this country fall for pep talk and then stick to it.


by Sandeep on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:11:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

You guys have spend too much time on this site, really. This site offers at least one Obama smear a day, one more vaguely sourced than the other. I have locked into most of them and not one holds up under any kind of scrutiny. If you are happy with that, fine with me.

But I would at least advise to look at him again once this primary is over and maybe that time you could also read the articles that show him in a positive light. There is no reason at all to believe that he is dishonest. There is not.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

baloney... the cheap kind


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:18:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Marc Rich. Denise Rich donated to Hillary's campaign. Don't act all holier than thou about your candidate.
Unfortunately most politicians are corrupt. How else do you explain many politicians making many millions when their official salaries are not more than a couple of hundred grand?
by Pravin on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:09:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

I've watched every debate and he changes his answers from one to other and when he doesn't have an answer which is often he goes off on long speeches that don't make any sense


by bradydundee on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:26:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 3)

itwould also suit you well to show respect to the supporters of the other candidate, in one of their diaries, and respect their experiences.

Jeez...


by americanincanada on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:50:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 0)

I quote: The big DIFFERENCE is that it was also full of substance.

That's not a report, that's a personal opinion. And by the way, I have shown my respect for the diarist in my post. I just made clear that some stuff she wrote is offensive to other candidates supporters. And if it wasn't intended to be offensive, then hopefully I could help by showing how the diary could be improved by avoiding cliches like the one mentioned.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 2)

I'm sorry if my opinion offended you, but I take back nothing.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:49:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 0)

Well, then let me tell you that you are wrong about your claim that Clinton has any more substance than Obama. It's a cheap talking point and unless you can provide any evidence for it, I can't take it seriously.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 2)

Gee Marco that sounds just like an opinion because it sure is hell aint a fact!!!


by coolofthenight on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:43:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

It is. And that is why I brought it up, to show you how impossible it is to talk to people who present their opinions as facts. You can't really argue with them!


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

I will remind you the next time you do it.


by coolofthenight on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Yes, I believe Clinton is leading Obama in the department of "When-Where-How" department of "getting things done." Obama messages (in regards to his PEP rallys) are loaded with opinions, not facts.


by Check077 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Your post really does a great job of not having any facts to support your claims.

You seem to think that that typing words is a satisfactory alternative to referring to actual documented specific accomplishments.

For example, can you identify an Obama rally that has no facts?  Of course you can't, the allegation is ridiculous.  And yet, in your mind, you believe that you're making a coherent argument.  That's silly.

And, what has HRC done in the "department of getting things done" that leads BHO?  It is undeniable that BHO has a longer and more successful legislative record.  HRC has been caught exagerating her experience during the White House years (see link below.)  HRC was a corporate lawyer for fifteen years (although she failed the bar the first time in DC.)  BHO was, an on the ground organizer, the president of the Harvard Law Review, a civil rights attorney, and a constitutional law teacher for 10 years.  The biggest executive experience for BHO and HRC (and McCain) has been their presidential campaigns, obviously BHO is winning that contest.

Exaggeration:
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics /2008/03/team_obama_hits_clinton_on_exp. html

Campaign:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/us/pol itics/10clinton.html?_r=2&hp&ore f=login&oref=login


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:41:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

"You seem to think that that typing words is a satisfactory alternative to referring to actual documented specific accomplishments."


Could you be a little more condescending Professor? This diary is a report of my experience at a Hillary Clinton rally. My one comment about substance is based on my personal experience, just like the rest of the diary. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out, now do you Professor? I purposely did not include a lot of links in my first diary here at MyDD. You're just trolling for a fight, Professor, but I'm not nibbling.


You and others have convinced me that perhaps another diary is on order. Perhaps we will examine Obama's remarkable work as chair on his Senate subcommittee. Or a lovely well documented look at  Mr Obama's choice of friends and associates back in Illinois. You know, you can tell a lot about a man by the company he keeps. If you don't believe me, go look it up. :)

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

The subcommittee is lame.  Only met seven times in nine years before BHO took over.  More importantly the subcommittee would never have been given jurisdiction for NATO in Afghanistan, nobody denies this.

Rezko is lame.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/200802 18/pl_bloomberg/ar8nlioqedc4

I'm not trying to embarrass you.  My point is that you should be a little more considered before you start reiterating some version of the HRC talking point that HRC is the doer and BHO is the speaker.  Yes, HRC is a hard worker, but she's not the right person to lead our country.

HRC thinks she found her voice after losing the Iowa caucus.  BHO has been driven by a complete and unwaivering motivation ever since he started in politics.  In a 1995 profile in The Chicago Reader, he said, "What if a politician were to see his job as an organizer, as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them?"  BHO's core principles are the key to his ability to make decisions without undue influence from the political winds of the moment.  HRC is a tactician, not a strategic leader.

By the way, you got my occupation wrong, I'm in construction--where I do the physical work.  I like building things, rather than pushing paper. (full disclosure: I do have a Chemical Engineering degree, I am a certified computer programmer, and I have been a Vice President in a bank.)


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:09:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

which one of those occupations gives you the right to talk down to me, Professor?  What a huge ugly ego you have. I WILL NOT ANSWER to trash talk. It is beneath me.  You do seem to have a vocabulary of more than 10 words. It should be beneath you, too.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:30:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

That's the second (or third?) comment of the legitimacy of the HRC camp line about the subcommittee.

Notice in those past 7 years, it includes the LAST big NATO expansion... shrugs Just saying, this seems to be a non-issue.


by PAprogressive on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

I was telling you that I'm a construction worker, not a professor.  I don't know why you would hold my work against me.

But, I understand that you could answer the specific questions about HRC's lack of effectiveness, however that would be beneath you.

You have clearly indicated that you could answer all the questions, and you would have really, really, really, really good answers too.

I can see why you believe that BHO supporters are uniformed and don't know why they support BHO.  I can see very clearly.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:17:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

She's not wrong, and your arguments are more fired up and ready to go than my neighbor Bill after a dinner of beans and sausage.

Do you really think people can't see through this shit?

And speaking of, did you read the spanking James Wolcott gave to teacherken, of Kos ?

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hhahahaha

Ken,

Wolcott made you look like a love struck teenage girl.


by Marsha1 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:59:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

No, can you give me a link?

It needs to be said, that teacherken is a very respectable poster on DK and I'm not sure you can get anywhere close to his level with your posts.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:18:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Here you go

Wolcott really made mincemeat out of TeacherKen. You really should get out of your bubble more often.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

show me where he HAS substance (none / 0)

if he has it, it is missing in his stump speeches.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: show me where he HAS substance (none / 0)

What metric do you use to measure this? Your own bias? That is not good enough, sorry.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where does Obama lack substance? (none / 0)

He only has 3 years of national experience, and 1.5 of those years was running for president.

Bottom line, if he is at the top of the ticket and Hillary isn't on the ticket (and maybe even if she is), McCain will beat him badly. The polls mean nothing right now.


by mmorang on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where does Obama lack substance? (none / 0)

If Hillary gets nominated and she loses, what are you prepared to do? Are you willing to give us a guarantee that she will win? After all, one of her selling points is the electability argument. If she can't win despite being backed by a popular ex President, then she owes the nation big time for a squandered opportunity.


by Pravin on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:12:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where does Obama lack substance? (none / 0)

You make the best bet you can. There is no data that suggests that a first term senator will beat a war hero when the nation is at war.

Obama lost about 75% of the white vote in the Mississippi DEMOCRATIC primary. He lost the Republican vote to Hillary as well. He will be DESTROYED in the general election and Hillary knows it, and there's not much she can do about it. The lunitics have taken over the asylum.

The Republicans who helped Obama in the primaries will not be there for him in the general election. Once again, the Democrats have chosed a candidate who cannot win the general election.

The endorsements he received are from political BOZOS (as far as presidential elections go): Tom Dashle lost his reelection; Ted Kennedy ran against a sitting Demoratic president which allowed right-wing conservative Ronald Reagan to win the election; John Kerry couldn't beat the worst president in history. These people know how to lose and they've picked a loser this time as well.


by mmorang on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:46:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where does Obama lack substance? (none / 0)

Last time I checked, McCain was more of a war victim than a war hero.  And we are not at war. Iraq is merely a misadventure we need to get ourselves out of. Hillary supporters need to learn how to reframe what real wars are if they want to beat a McCain type guy.


by Pravin on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 05:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain could have left his men behind but (none / 0)

didn't. He was tortured for years. I disagree with him on many important issues, but I will always give him his due because he earned it.

He is viewed by the vast majority of Americans as a war HERO, not merely a victim. Victims don't stay behind with there men knowing they will be tortured, hero's do.

You are obviously in fairy-tale land if you believe that first term senator Obama (minus the 2 years spent running for president) will not get destroyed by war hero McCain when the nation is engaged in two wars or occupations or whatever nonsensical way you want to describe it.


by mmorang on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 08:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 3)

Hey, thank you so much!!! But I guess there's something I forgot to mention; I'm no youth. I'm a 54 year old woman who has been a lifelong progressive.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:47:03 AM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

hi bella, I am just a few years younger and I live in Clarks summit.  Where are you from?  Have you signed up to volunteer yet?


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:13:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Hi Teresa, I think you know me. I almost volunteered with you the last election. I live in Dalton. Teresa, I'm a chronic pain patient. I never even know if I'll get far off my couch on any given day. Some days I'm much better. Do you have a public email? Right now I don't, and what with all the trolls itching for a fight, well, you know.

I'd love to get in touch.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:37:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

What the media will pick up is who most youth are actually voting for - not who shows up at rallies. What some people see at rallies is anecdotal and means very little. Exit polls show which demographic is voting for which candidate - that's what the media will and should report.
by Becky G on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:50:52 AM EST

PA Youth (2.00 / 7)

Nice candidate diary discussing the youth vote. I think the youth support of both candidates is tremendous. It is wonderful that first-time and younger voters are getting involved. I support Hillary so am happy to hear about youth turnout for her in PA. Thanks for posting and welcome to MyDD. Recommended.


by grlpatriot on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:52:54 AM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 3)

I wonder why then the media has missed the fact that if you take away crossover Republican and Independent votes, Obama is actually behind Hillary in the Democratic popular vote.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:56:04 AM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Sorry, this comment was in response to Becky, above.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:56:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Because, among other things, you have to go by exit polls to make that argument.

Vote counts don't have margin of errors.  


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 0)

Mainly because there is no evidence of it.

Any attempt to find that number would involve applying exit polls to vote totals by state.  Exit polls are terribly unreliable and no exit polls were conducted for most of the caucus states.  Therefore, there is no way of knowing how many registered Democrats voted for each candidate.  (Besides, what is a first time voter?  What about voters in states that don't register by party?  What about people who split tickets?  What about those who re-registered as Democrats?  What is the litmus test for being a Democrat?)


by WellstoneDem on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Because your statement is wrong.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:44:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nope (none / 0)

she is right.  Go look at the exit polls.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:15:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (none / 0)

Not all competitions had exit polls, that's the point.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:16:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (none / 0)

Oh the exit polls!

In the world of exit polls, John Kerry won Ohio and Florida and is our President.  Unfortunately, thats not reality.


by WellstoneDem on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (none / 0)

a) The exit polls say that 15%-20% of registered Democrats are not "Democrats".

b) Exit polls have a 4% margin of error, which is about 1,000,000 votes here, which is vastly more than Hillary leads in the "Democratic popular vote" estimate.


by HEAP on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:33:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

that doesn't suit their narrative.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:14:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

Good Job on your first diary!  I've done a couple now, and I still get nervous when I hit that post button...I need to get over it :)

Anyway, I do think the Clinton support from younger voters is an overlooked story, but really, after today, it is a primary free zone until April 22.  So, I bet there will be more stories than we care to see.  They'll probably  be stalking horse and buggies to see how the Pennsylvania Dutch are voting as a block. :-D


-----------

Blog: http://fitnessnerd.blogspot.com/

by FitnessNerd on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:20:50 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 0)

Thank you, FitnessNerd. It is a traumatic thing, to hit that post button. I have posted elsewhere, but not recently. Thanks again for the kind words.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 5)

Lovely diary and I'm very pleased to hear your view of the event.  It always feels great to see young people coming out for Hillary!


by Montague on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:22:59 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 0)

NE PA is Hillary's stronghold in the state, so I'm not surprised that she has support among younger voters there as well.  The region that extends from Scranton to the Lehigh Valley and through the coal region is the place in PA where the Demographics are favorable for her (older, low information, working class, white, and actually Democrats) and she will need to carry that region by a large margin to counteract Obama's stronghold.

OTOH, the city of Philadelphia is the Obama stronghold.  The demographics are highly favorable to him (black, liberal, lots of universities), despite Hillary's endorsement by the very popular current mayor (Nutter) and the very popular former mayor turned governor (Rendell).

Assuming Hillary's support in the NE cancels out Obama's support in Philly, what does the rest of the state look like?  Obama will win Pittsburgh, but Hillary will probably cancel that out with the suburban and exurban areas in the west.  In between in highly Republican Pennsyltucky which will render very few votes for either Dem candidate in a closed primary.

The battleground is the Philly suburbs.  This is the area where the demographics are fluid and either candidate could gain the advantage.  Upper Bucks County (New Hope, Buckingham, Doylestown) is rich and liberal and should favor Obama.  Lower Bucks County (Bristol, Langhorne, etc) is more working class and unionized and should favor Clinton.  The Main Line is rich and (where Democratic) liberal and academic, with several colleges and universities (Villanova, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Rosemont), meaning a large proportion of both students and professors in the primary electorate (presumably favoring Obama, but not necessarily).  Bryn Mawr College specifically will be an interesting battleground to watch.  It's both fiercely (some would say militantly) feminist (heavily favoring Hillary) and also far left liberal and progressive (possibly favoring Obama).  It's a micro-demographic that bears watching closely.  It should favor Hillary, but if Obama can make inroads into the feminist stronghold there, it will be a bellweather of which way the whole election is going.  The more working class areas of Delaware and Chester counties should favor Hillary, although Obama will have pockets of support in the AA communities like Chester.

The bottom line is that the winner of PA will come from the winner of the Philly suburbs.  Realistically, I think Hillary will win PA outright no matter what, so here, I mean "winner" from an expectations standpoint.  If Obama can win or stay close in the Philly suburbs, the final margin will be in the single digits and he will have successfully limited the damage.  If Hillary runs away with the Philly suburbs, the final margin will likely be closer to a 15-20 point blowout.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:23:21 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 0)

Wow, what a great analysis. You seem very informed about Pa, especially the Philly area. Thanks for posting that here.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

low information? (2.00 / 1)

why not just call them "downticket" or low rent?  sigh, do you really talk about people that way?
Take it from me, the people of NE PA are not low information.

The philly suburbs will play an important part but here is something to remember... the party machine is the thing that made the burbs powerful with it's organization.  That organization is going to be mobilized for Hillary.

Another thing, even our elitist types are more sensible and pragmatic than in some other areas of the country.  Clinton has a larger percentage of the black vote here and the rich white liberal types will not go for Obama in the same numbers as you have seen in other states.  He won't do that great in Pittsburgh either.  He's win but not by as much as you imagine.  
You can not make a case that any one area is the key.  If NE PA turns out huge maybe that is the key.  If NW PA goes for her maybe that is the key.  Maybe people in rural areas will turn out larger than you imagine and that will be the key... because Obama is far from owning philly.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: low information? (none / 0)

"Low information voters" is a well-known political demographic that is more apt to vote based on name recognition or identity politics than on the nuances of the difference between the two candidates's stance on NAFTA.  Don't take it as a personal insult if there are lots of them in your area, it's not a statement on intelligence but moreso on the amount of attention people pay to the nitty-gritty details of any race.  Hillary dominates the low information white voters in the same way that Obama dominates the low information black voters.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 3)

Great first diary, thanks!
Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:33:34 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Does anyone if there is early voting in PA or absentee ballot- When does it start if there is?


by indus on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:44:32 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 0)

Is this Lake Winola? I seem to recognize the area. Out to the left should be the Blue Pelican, where the Clinton's have been known to pop in. Thanks for posting this Pretty Boy Floyd.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:47:07 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Why is it then that GE polls show him doing better against McCain than Clinton in Penn even though the SAME polls show him losing to Clinton in the primary?

Does this not completely invalidate your argument that primary results = GE results?


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:48:58 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

It shows how inaccurate polls can be.  Didn't you learn anything from New Hampshire?


by PlainWords on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

I forgot. You are only allowed to use GE polls if they show Clinton winning.


by marcotom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

Good dairy. It's wonderful her support is holding in PA. She is going to win in PA, but she will also fight to keep it close in NC. Then on to FL and MI for a revote.


"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."
by LadyEagle on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:50:09 PM EST

The media has been slicing and (none / 0)

dicing the electorate up to give them something to talk about.

I've been tempted to do a poll to see how many people didn't vote for the person the media expected them to based on demographics.  Maybe I will one of these days if someone doesn't beat me to it.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:21:11 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

If Clinton loses MS today by 15% or more she should quit that day.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:23:57 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

My, my, my.  With Obama getting 50% off the top--given the black/white demographic of voters in Mississippi--you probably think that you're cute with the "if 15%, then this" kind of statement.  Frankly, for most people outside the blogs, what they will see is the black/white divide...and, no matter how we might try to discuss that philosophically, it carries a message that cannot be ignored in electoral politics (one aspect now and another aspect in the general.)  So, please, give us all a break and stop posturing.


by christinep on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Did you even bother to read the post I replied to?  You fail at sarcasm.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:54:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Actually I fail at posting, this was a supposed to be a response and therefore the sarcasm was obviously lost =/


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:55:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

dream on.  Democrats are not going to win in MS and a primary win there is about as meaningful as in any other red state.
The primary will be determined by who can win in November and red states that will not go blue are not going to dictate who the nominee is.
DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:29:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

I fail at posting, this was a supposed to be a response and therefore the sarcasm was obviously lost =/


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Oh by the way, I would like to point out though that if you don't think you can win red states or that red states can't be converted then you don't think Democrats can win at all since they would have to convert 1 or more red states from previous cycles.

You shouldn't be so down on our chances.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:57:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i went to the U of Scranton (2.00 / 1)

and it was an interesting experience to say the least.

A few of my friends tried going. Getting reports from them. One friend left work at 5, to show up, and said the line was incredibly long.  He was not allowed to park because they were at critical mass, and the police officers basically told him to just go home because there was no way he could get in anyway.

His mother, on the other hand, is a nurse and made it.  She took 2 pictures (only).  My other friends havent gotten back to me yet.

Great diary though!

I wish i were there.  I will be in PA though in April!

P.S. NEPA is definitely Clinton Country!


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:48:58 PM EST

Re: i went to the U of Scranton (none / 0)

Most of the students I was talking to were from the U. (da U) They were not only articulate, they were a blast. We laughed a lot. I hope that your friends made it inside. The U of Scranton is a great school... my nephew went there as well. Me? I went to Marywood... many moons ago.


You should come to Scranton for the St Paddy's Day Parade, Hillary will be back in town for that as well. The Parade is always one heck of a party. :)

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 2)

I agree with your diary - as a young educated voter who voted and caucused for Hillary in Texas.

Most of my friends voted and caucused for Obama - but to me they did not have any compelling reason for doing so - they felt inspired by his message of "change" and were disaffected by Hillary's "political baggage".  One friend said that at one of the colleges, there was a very active Obama group and no group for Clinton... which was why he was supporting Obama.

All of which to me means that it may be tougher as a young voter to stand up for Hillary.  (Much like it would be tough for a black voter to vote Hillary, or a Hispanic to vote for Obama)  Among youth, the other candidate, Obama, has a much more significant "cool factor" or "wow factor" than Hillary - those who fail to acknowledge that Obama benefits from this factor in this demographic while Hillary faces an uphill battle against it - are kidding themselves.  It is tough in any social group to go against your peers.

I know (almost) all of the candidates political accomplishments, and I am really not swayed by anything Obama has done in his time in the Senate.  I am not convinced he is JFK, or FDR, or MLK, or Lincoln.  I am convinced that he has a lot of potential, perhaps more so than Clinton in the long run, and could best use that by staying in the Senate to finish out his term or by serving as Clinton's VP.


by mikes101 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:55:45 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Your observations would seem to mirror those I heard last night. It's wonderful to see young people take part in the process, like your involvement in the Texas caucus. You are very articulate in expressing your opinions. It is also refreshing to hear such a well informed Hillary voter say positive things about Obama. Thank you so much for your post. It has given me more food for thought.


In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
by Bella on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:24:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good for you! (none / 0)

You are correct.  Going against your peer group requires a certain sense of stubborn independence.

Actually, being a Clinton supporter isn't the fashion in many circles.  A lot of people have negative feelings for her (mostly based on second hand information) and many of them look at you funny when you say you support her.

This media emphasis on demographics in this campaign hasn't helped either.  The media have taken certain demographic tendencies and blown them way out of proportion.  If you are a younger, educated male people think you should be automatically for Obama and wonder if there isn't something weird about you if you aren't.  Personally, I think skepticism should come with education and that would lead someone to question the choice of Obama.


by lombard on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good for you! (2.00 / 2)

"many of them look at you funny when you say you support her."

You are right on.  I had that a lot as well.  In the beginning I didn't want to tell anyone that I support Hillary.  But after I'm getting more active with the campaign, i couldn't care anymore.  

To be honest, I'm so proud now that I go with my judgement and support the best candidate for the president.  

A friend in my network of HRC supporters said going public that he's HRC supporter felt like coming out of the closet for the second time.  LOL.


by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

Welcome, Bella.  Nice post.


by PlainWords on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:57:30 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (2.00 / 1)

you you are right than it be much better than 59-40 % for Hillary. It can be 65-35 than, which amounts to 103 delegates for her and only 55 for Obama, +48 for Clinton! She can use PA momentum to win extra delegates in NC and IN on 5/6/08.


Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:04:03 PM EST

Re: Not all Pa Youth are Breathless for Obama (none / 0)

Like she used momentum to win Wyoming on the 8th and Mississippi today?

Or like she used momentum to end up netting nothing after getting fewer delegates than BO in Texas and then having California's adjustments negate the rest of the week for her?

Woof,  better get out of the way before the momentum runs me over!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:34:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I heard that Obama cheated big time in TX (none / 0)

those delegates are still being counted and there will probably be court cases.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard that Obama cheated big time in TX (none / 0)

holy shit!  Hilary found cheating when nothing else would help!  Well... I, I don't know what to say!  This is just shocking!!  

Should we go ahead and assume that was just a silly little coincidence?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama will not crack 40% in PA (2.00 / 1)

My prediction: Clinton will win 60% of the vote in Pennsylvania.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:13:27 PM EST

Re: Obama will not crack 40% in PA (2.00 / 1)

As a one born in the Coal Region (northeast central PA) it is heartening to see the support Hillary receives in Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Allentown, and Harrisburg.  It really is coming down to those Congressional districts.  With a good campaign and some luck, I believe Hillary Clinton can reach 60% in the key state of Pennsylvania.


by christinep on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama will not crack 40% in PA (none / 0)

My prediction is that Obama will STILL have a 3 digit lead in delegates, almost twice as many states, and a majority in popular vote after PA and it'll only get more lopsided afterwards.

Hilary should increase the odds of there being a democrat in the White House on 1/21/09 by dropping out.  

SHE. HAS. ALREADY. LOST


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:25:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama will not crack 40% in PA (none / 0)

at least 60 percent.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]