Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland

I've seen a lot of posts challenging some of what I and others have written about Hillary's vast experience when it comes to foreign policy.  So I thought I'd post some facts about what she's done to help those caught in two areas of the world that have seen conflict and misery - Kosovo and Northern Ireland.

For anyone who might doubt Hillary's connection to Northern Ireland, take a look at this recent picture of her with two of the particpants in those peace talks in the mid-90s, (Big) Ian (blood & thunder) Paisley (DUP), and Martin McGuinnes(Sinn Fein).  They used to hate each other (hell maybe they still do) but are now serviing as the top two members of the Belfast government.  They came over to DC on a trip to promote investment in Northern Ireland and stopped by to visit their old friend, Hillary.

There's more...

So without further ado...

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id= 6431

The Facts: Hillary and Kosovo
3/8/2008 4:15:28 PM

Hillary has done the work of real diplomacy, visiting the front lines, meeting with world leaders, and working behind the scenes to make change.

In the midst of the air war over Kosovo, Hillary Clinton arrived in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia on May 14, 1999. Despite concerns about security, she traveled to the international border on the edge of the war zone, and visited with refugees. She met separately with Prime Minister Georgievski and President Gligorov, accompanied by U.S. Ambassador to Macedonia Christopher Hill, to emphasize America's support for the stability and security of Macedonia. She discussed refugee policy in these meetings. Before she arrived the Macedonian government had an inconsistent policy that frequently severely restricted the flow of refugees. Indeed in the days leading up to her visit, the flow of refugees had slowed greatly. Hillary pressed these leaders to embrace a border policy that would open the way to allow many more Kosovar Albanians to escape the war zone. After talks between Hillary Clinton and the Macedonian leadership, which included the announcement of two million dollars in aid, the government opened the borders much wider, thereby saving many, many lives.

As a Senator, Hillary Clinton championed prompt recognition of Kosovo's independence in the context of full protection of minority rights, especially for the Serbs. She has supported the full integration of the Western Balkans into Europe and the transatlantic community.

Testimonials:

Statement of Richard Holbrooke, architect of the Dayton Accords, and former permanent representative to the United Nations.

"It was dire in May 1999 when Hillary Clinton arrived in Macedonia. The government of Macedonia had slowed the flow of refugees from Kosovo to a trickle. After visiting refugees and gaining a first-hand assessment of the situation, the First Lady had intense talks with President Gligorov and Prime Minister Georgievski. In these talks, one in the Presidential Palace, another in the residence of the American Ambassador, Christopher Hill, Mrs. Clinton pressed the Macedonian government to fully open the border so that Kosovar Albanian refugees could flee the war zone to safety. She also committed herself to work with the government and people of Macedonia who also faced an emergency because of the threat to their own safety and stability. Hillary Clinton promised to take action to help the Macedonian economy. Returning to Washington, she pressed hard in the administration for action to support the Macedonians. She even contacted American business executives to ensure that American textile contracts in Macedonia were not canceled. There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of those people I worked with in the Balkans at the time - that her intense efforts resulted in easing a crisis of significant dimensions and contributed to saving many lives."

Statement of Susan Braden, Director of Central and Eastern Europe, National Security Council, during Clinton Administration

"I was the Director of Central and Eastern Europe at the National Security Council, with responsibility for the states on the front-line of the conflict with Serbia, including Macedonia. The First Lady traveled to the region to bolster these fragile states at a precarious time. In May 1999, working with the Macedonians, we arranged meetings for Hillary with the Macedonian leadership for the purpose of demonstrating support and, in light of the growing refugee crisis, to persuade the government to allow in more Kosovar Albanian refugees. Hillary successfully pressed the Macedonian government to allow in many more refugees. This trip was enormously important in resolving this immediate crisis. It also reassured the Macedonian government, and other states in the region affected by this crisis, that America would support them."

"Statement from Melanne Verveer, Former Chief of Staff to First Lady Hillary Clinton

As her chief of staff, I traveled with Hillary to Macedonia and sat in on her meetings with the Macedonian leadership. The situation in Macedonia was fragile. There had been demonstrations against the U.S. Embassy, the Macedonian economy was faltering, and there were growing rifts in the Macedonian population over the conflict. In Macedonia, Hillary met with the President and Prime Minister, pushing them on the need to allow Kosovo refugees to flee to safety inside Macedonia. As a result of these talks, they changed their policies, and allowed in thousands of refugees. She spoke to the Macedonian people at the same time and told them that the United States stood with them, that we were grateful for their sacrifices, and she brought with her economic assistance to help Macedonia through this difficult period. Hillary's diplomatic efforts averted a major refugee crisis and, at the same time, produced benefits for the people of Macedonia."

News Reports:

Hillary met with the Macedonian President and Prime Minister offering an economic development package. (Hillary) "Clinton heard her story Friday morning on her trip to Macedonia, which was aimed at highlighting the plight of ethnic Albanian refugees from Kosovo and assuring the poor Balkan nation that the United States understands the stress the influx has placed on it. Aid officials say Macedonia has taken about 233,000 of the nearly 800,000 refugees. Clinton met with Macedonian President Kiro Gligorov and Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski. She announced the release of the first $ 2 million in a $ 21 million economic development package for Macedonia that is designed to help the fledgling democracy create new small businesses." [Chicago Tribune, 5/16/99]

Hillary met with Macedonian officials 'trying to diffuse any anti-American sentiment and to bolster Macedonia's fragile coalition government. "Hillary Rodham Clinton swept through Macedonia on Friday on a visit that illustrated the Clinton administration's continuing struggle to balance the diverse strands of its Kosovo policy...Ethnic Macedonians, who make up roughly two-thirds of this country's population, generally oppose NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. They also fear that if ethnic Albanians -- who made up roughly one-third of Macedonia's population before the crisis -- continue to pour in from Kosovo, Macedonians will be reduced to a minority in their own country. So although Clinton spent the morning addressing the suffering of the refugees, she spent the rest of the day trying to defuse any anti-American sentiment and to bolster Macedonia's fragile coalition government, a mix of Macedonian and Albanian parties." [Austin American-Statesman, 5/15/99]

The Washington Post: "First Lady Brings Publicity, Aid to Macedonia:" First lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, the first high-ranking American to visit here since the Kosovo crisis began, brought two messages to Macedonia today. Touring a refugee camp of 18,000 people, Clinton urged Americans not to become "immune" to the plight of more than 740,000 Kosovo Albanians expelled from their homeland since NATO began its air war against Yugoslavia on March 24. "We are trying to do everything possible to make these lives and stories real, not to let them fade into the background," she said... And she soothed the irritated government of Macedonia, which has taken in the refugees only reluctantly and at the price of more foreign aid. Clinton today added another $ 2 million to the pot -- the first installment of a $ 21 million reallocation of funds for Macedonia... Even as Clinton toured the camp, a few refugees were entering Macedonia from Kosovo. For 10 days, almost no one has crossed the frontier -- initially because Macedonian border guards were blocking refugees, then because Serbian authorities were not allowing them to leave... After her camp tour, Clinton met with Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski, parliamentary president Savo Klimovski and local aid officials, and her message could not have been more straightforward: "I want to clearly express our appreciation to the government of Macedonia for the efforts they have made. It has been an incredible burden on Macedonia." [Washington Post, 5/15/99]

Now I actually cut my teeth blogging back in the mid-90s on an old CNN discussion board about Northern Ireland.  I used to know people from both sides of the divide up in the North so I learned a lot from them on a more personal level.  And a friend here in Maryland traveled to the North with Sen. Clinton - can't recall which trip.

I read whatever I could get my hands on back then - books (current affairs and history), newspapers, on line information.  You name it - I read and absorbed it.

I followed the whole process very closely and lobbied hard for the Good Friday Agreement's passage via a website I built back in the day.  I still look at it sometimes and marvel at all that went on back then.  Marching season.  Ormagh.  The Quinn boys.  So many suffered and today we see Big (blood & thunder) Ian Paisly sharing power with of all people - Martin McGuinness!  (see the other attached picture).

John Hume represented the SDLP in the peace talks. He and the rest of the people who helped make the GFA possible sacrificed so much!  He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize along with David Trimble (who represented the Ulster Unionist Party (Protestants) in the negotiations) in 1998.  For more information you can check out the who's who page from my old website, IrishPeace.com to get an idea as to how closely I followed all this.  So when I say Hillary played a part in helping to bring peace to the North, believe it.  

Read on...

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id= 6430

The Facts: Hillary and Northern Ireland
3/8/2008 3:12:25 PM

Hillary traveled to Northern Ireland seven times between 1995 and 2004, and gave what Northern Irish leader and Nobel Laureate John Hume recently described as "decisive support" to the peace process in Northern Ireland. She focused especially on encouraging the emergence of women in the political process. In addition, Hillary's work at the grass roots and behind-the-scenes helped cultivate the conditions necessary for the peace to take hold and last.

As political leaders on all sides of the process have attested, Hillary made important contributions in a wide variety of ways. She made private calls to the negotiating parties on all sides and at all levels to encourage them towards peace. She gave advice and technical assistance to Northern Ireland leaders on a range of governance issues. She used the bully pulpit to inspire and to challenge at a major address in 1998 before leaders from the contending sides.

In 1998 under the auspices of the U.S.-led Vital Voices Democracy Initiative, established by Hillary and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright the previous year - Hillary brought together 400 women in Belfast, Northern Ireland to foster their rise to prominence and leadership and to ensure that their success helped support peace. She met with community workers and with women politicians in Northern Ireland to encourage them to take on a larger role. She carried a pledge to the government of Ireland that the United States would remain a partner in the peace process.

Senator George Mitchell said that "She was very much involved in encouraging the emergence of women in the political process in Northern Ireland, which was a significant factor in ultimately getting an agreement."

Hillary's efforts have continued as Senator. She visited the Republic of Ireland on her first trip during her Senate term, and Northern Ireland on her second trip, where she spoke with all of the major leaders in Northern Ireland.

Every year, she meets with the Taoiseach and other party leaders from Ireland. She continues to take calls from all parties to provide help behind the scenes and to keep the process moving forward. And she has held meetings in her office at the request of Northern Irish officials on job creation, trade, agriculture, autism, policing, economic development - and of course reconciliation.

In December 2007, when Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley were in Washington, they met with President Bush and Hillary, thanking Hillary for her contribution to the peace process.

Testimonials:

Statement from John Hume former MP MEP, founder of the SDLP and an architect of the Good Friday Agreement. He is the only person to win the Nobel Prize for Peace, the Ghandi Peace Award and the Martin Luther King Peace Prize.

"I am quite surprised that anyone would suggest that Hillary Clinton did not perform important foreign policy work as First Lady. I can state from firsthand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland.

She visited Northern Ireland, met with very many people and gave very decisive support to the peace process. There is no doubt that the people of Northern Ireland think very positively of Hillary Clinton's support for our peace process, due to her visits to Northern Ireland and her meetings with so many people. In private she made countless calls and contacts, speaking to leaders and opinion makers on all sides, urging them to keep moving forward.

Anyone criticizing her foreign policy involvement should look at her very active and positive approach to Northern Ireland and speak with the people of Northern Ireland who have the highest regard for her and are very grateful for her very active support for our peace process."

Inez McCormack, first female president of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions:

"Hillary Clinton took risks for peace in asking me and others to bring women and communities from both traditions to affirm their capacity to work for common purpose and to assert, when there was no public dialogue which supported it, that working for common purpose on the basis of mutual respect was the core of effective peace building. She used her immense influence to give women like me space to develop this work and validated it every step of the way. This approach is now taken for granted bit it wasn't then. She told us that if we take risks for peace, she would stay with us on that journey. In my experience, it took hard work, attention to detail and a commitment of time and energy which she delivered steadily and where it was needed over the last decade."

Baroness May Blood of the House of Lords, who worked for many years as a community leader in Shankill area of West Belfast

"The First Lady sent the message that the work and influence that grassroots women were undertaking within their communities was just as important as anything else that was taking place. I witnessed her building new confidence in women at the grassroots level and their statue grew within Northern Ireland as a consequence. All of a sudden they were being taken more seriously. The message we were also told by Hillary Clinton was that this work needed a political focus."

Geraldine McAteer, Chief Executive of West Belfast Partnership Board

"As First Lady, Hillary Clinton was extremely supportive of the peace process in Northern Ireland, and in particular, of the women who live here. In her visits during the peace process negotiations she met with women from a range of backgrounds and she recognized there was a real need to strengthen and support the voices of women in the post conflict context and get the needs of women and communities to the forefront of the new political agenda. She recognized that this would be best done through building the skillls of women here. Through her Vital Voices Conference in September 1998, I and others were able to develop our skills for the betterment of our communities."

News reports:

2007: Hillary honored for her work on the Northern Ireland Peace process. Irish American Magazine named Hillary "Person of the Year", celebrating "her work on the Northern Ireland peace process". [Irish American Magazine, April/May 07]

2007: Hillary met with Irish leaders who wanted to 'pay their respects to Hillary' for her work on behalf of peace in Northern Ireland.  Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley recently traveled to Washington on behalf of the fledging Northern Ireland government, and they specifically requested two personal meetings: one with President George W. Bush and one with Senator Hillary Clinton. They wanted to "pay their respects to Hillary" for her long and varied role in promoting and working for peace in Northern Ireland. [Guardian, December 8, 2007]. As McGuinness put it, "these are wonderfully exciting times for all of us back home, not least because of the contributions made by President Clinton and Mrs. Clinton." [AP, December 7, 2007].

1999: Northern Ireland Secretary: `Hillary is one of the essential reasons' Ireland had peace. An August 1999 issue of Talk Magazine quotes Northern Ireland Secretary Mo Mowlam: "Hillary is one of the essential reasons we've had 18 months of relative peace. Without her we would have no economic boom."

1999: Hillary made frequent trips to Northern Ireland where she was 'not just in the humdrum affairs of state...but in the nitty gritty of the political scene'. "A few years back the notion of an American First Lady speaking out on any aspect of life in Northern Ireland would have been taboo. Now it is accepted that not just this First Lady but also her husband make frequent trips to the North, and that they become involved not just in the humdrum affairs of state such as opening a new training center or mouthing niceties at a conference, but in the nitty gritty of the political scene too." [Irish Voice, May 25, 1999]

This is real experience folks - and it's gained over years and years of involvement in real issues and the lives of real people.  It's not something someone can gain by making last minute trips overseas.


U P D A T E

Tucker's SUCH an asshole but Jamie Rubin sets the record straight re Hillary's role in Northern Ireland.



Display:


Experience Isn't Something You Can Get on the Fly (2.00 / 22)

It's something that's developed and gained over years and years of service.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:00:46 AM EST

Re: KUDOS! (2.00 / 9)

Alegre: Once again, you've tackle an issue near and dear to our hearts based on your personal experience of fighting for progressive causes for many years. Kudos to you AND Hillary, m'dear. Another excellent diary!

Now I actually cut my teeth blogging back in the mid-90s on an old CNN discussion board about Northern Ireland.  I used to know people from both sides of the divide up in the North so I learned a lot from them on a more personal level....
 


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:08:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Breaking: Former Clinton Officials Endorse Hillary (none / 0)

Isn't this post basically pointing out that a bunch of former Clinton officials and supporters (e.g. Holbrooke) are going to defend Hillary tooth and nail no matter what so that they can all get their jobs back in 2009?


by newdem2008 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smears (2.00 / 2)

No. Isn't your post basically pointing out that a bunch of Obama supporters going to defend him tooth and nail no matter what so that they can get a job in 2009?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Breaking: Former Indicted Supporter Endorses.. (none / 0)

Obama.

Same difference - except Hillary's endorsements aren't from guys standing trial for fraud.


by Shazone on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 07:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: Former Indicted Supporter Endorses.. (none / 0)

Supporters not on trial?  You mean like Norman Hsu is on trial?  Oh how quickly they forget...


by Rockville Liberal on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:02:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep, Hillary's been serving... (2.00 / 8)

Us all for quite some time, so I trust that she'll be ready to hit the ground running and start doing great things as our next President. :-)


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:24:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Experience (2.00 / 6)

Alegre, Thanks for doing this diary. Highly Recc'd as usual. You are a pretty amazing woman yourself.

I, too, was personally involved in the process throughout the 90s--friends with people who were part of the process, and even making trips there to see things for myself and to learn about the history, meeting and getting to know the people in the North. And involved daily in discussion and debate with people all over Britain and Ireland on the issues of the time. It does seem like another lifetime ago now, but it's still near and dear to my heart, as I know the ordinary people who lived it every day in Northern Ireland.

Looking back on the 90's and everything the people went through just to get to the negotiating table (!) much less the years of efforts put in to the negotiations for the Good Friday Agreement, only people who were closely observing that process can appreciate the amazing work it took to get there.

None of it would have happened without Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton; and that is not hyperbole in the least. Their dedication to it, their encouragement of the parties involved; their considerable political pressure on everyone to move forward against intractible, historical and complex odds--was key to peaceful political progress.

I was so glad to see Rubin discuss it last night; he did a good job, despite Tucker Carlson's callow attempts to dismiss it. Carlson just looked like a callow adolescent in that segment; he clearly had no clue about Northern Ireland at all.

But, there's something else most people simply cannot appreciate, because it's hard for people to imagine or comprehend: Just a couple of decades ago, in the North of Ireland, women were nearly completely shut out of any political process, they had no political power at all in government. For the most part, women's voices on political issues, were virtually shut out by the Unionist parties, which held the balance of power in government. Culturally, Ireland, north and south, was very conservative; progressive ideas were censored, censured, and prohibited. There were a few exceptions over the years; but women, for the most part, were not encouraged to contest elections or have political power in Northern Ireland.

When Mary Robinson, born in the North of Ireland, became President of Ireland, visited her home in the North, and the leaders in the government refused to even meet with her.

But, Hillary Clinton's leadership during the peace process, and her constant contacts, networking, and encouragement of women in all communities, had a huge impact, which is still unfolding today in governance, because they are bringing progressive policy ideas with them in a ripple effect which is always a great thing.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:51:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Cue: The "Yoko Ono" meme-blitz (none / 0)

Saying that Hillary has Executive Branch experience is like saying Yoko Ono was a Beatle.


No vetting is complete until we've seen the tax returns.
by Bill White on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no it's not (2.00 / 2)

and that joke is old. It's like Hillary Clinton using her advantages to help alleviate suffering around the world.  She had an advantage, and she used it by working hard for world peace.  But Yoko is still an artist and being married to a Beatle didn't stop her. She also used her fame to promote world peace, but it didn't work for her as well as for Hillary.  Yoko did do as much as she could, with her resources.  Hillary talks with world leaders, she has more influence.  And far more opportunity, not just cause she was married to Bill, but also because Bill respects her and wasn't in competition with her, he doesn't mind having a working wife who outshines him.  He rather likes it. Cool?  Some guys try to keep their wives in the kitchen, but Bill married a woman smarter than him and more capable. One more reason to love Bill.  


just say it: Medicare for All
by anna shane on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cue: The "Yoko Ono" meme-blitz (none / 0)

Thank you for the sig line of the week...


by Rockville Liberal on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:40:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you for this! (2.00 / 11)

FACTS have a funny way of getting in the way of a silly PICTURE that MARKOS and others tried to use to discount Hillary Clinton!

Funny.. eh?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:00:47 AM EST

Re: Thank you for this! (2.00 / 9)

Any time.

I followed the peace process in the North of Ireland very closely and Hillary was more than a bit player in the resolution of that conflict.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:02:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you for this! (1.00 / 2)

I taught Hillary everything she knows about diplomnacy


by Sinbad Sinbad on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Have you cross posted this (2.00 / 2)

at the big O?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:01:29 AM EST

Re: Have you cross posted this (2.00 / 8)

Yup.  Probably won't have the energy to comment there though.  I really can't stand all that abuse any more.  They aren't interested in discussing anything anyway.  THey rarely stay on topic anyway.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:03:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Have you cross posted this (2.00 / 8)

Agreed. Comments there are usually filled with ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the issues. It's no longer a site that advocates advancing the causes of our most progressive candidates.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:11:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If I remember correctly, polls at DKos (2.00 / 4)

when there were 10 or so in the race, showed Hillary around 6 percent approval.  I think that's probably dropped by now.

Not friendly territory for Hillary supporters.


by Southern Mouth on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:24:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 9)

Somebody lied. And it wasn't Hillary...


by HillaryKnight08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:05:54 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 7)

No one can write this as elegantly as you. Thank you for providing the proof that so many here dispute.


by Fleaflicker on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:28:20 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 7)

Your information is so filled with fact and so well written.  Thank you for your dedication, your skill and enthusiasm.  Thank for most of all for being on Hillary's side.  You are a wonderful advocate for this excellent candidate.  


by macmcd on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:35:32 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 7)

It seems that basically somebody, anybody on the planet has to disagree with Hillary, and that's all the proof Obama supporters need that she's a lying bitch.

When it's not primary season the blogosphere is usually pretty good at getting to the bottom of factual claims, whether the results are positive or negative.  Maybe it's hoping for too much to expect the same thing from people during the silly season.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:35:38 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

Stop putting words in people's mouths. No one has called Hillary a "lying bitch" here. She embellished.

If you think a copy-paste job from HillaryHub.com is going to "get to the bottom" of the factual claim that multiple principals in the Belfast negotiations have no memory of HRC involvement, and the only ones that do have that memory are Clinton allies, then you're the one participating in the silly season.


by amiches on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:27:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 1)

All I can do is comment on the tone of the frat-boy Obama supporters who swarm every anti-Clinton thread.  You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

It's certainly not possible that different players in the peace talks could have different perspectives on the involvement of one particular individual.  Nope, it's ironclad proof that she's a liar.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:34:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

I invite you to copy-and-paste any instance in which an Obama supporter has called Clinton a "lying bitch" on this site. Looking forward to it.

And forgive me for being skeptical when a person with a track record of exaggerating her experience (35 years, anyone?) has her role in the peace process questioned by key people involved. Guess I must just be a misogynist.


by amiches on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for your opinion.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:49:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo (2.00 / 2)

I honestly don't search the blogs anymore that are not unbiased, such as this one.  But, I can tell you that while I was standing at an intersection in San Antonio, TX last week, holding a Clinton sign, I and Hillary were called a whole lot worse than bitch, lying or not.  It disheartens me so much that such pure hatred can be directed at someone because they are a strong woman.


by SandyS on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:28:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo (none / 0)

I'm very sorry you experienced that. Imagine my astonishment at being called a "n****r lover" when canvassing for Barack in Virginia.

Neither of these sorts of things have been posted blogs like this one, however  (although some have come close), and Steve M's ridiculous assertion was that people here are calling Clinton a "lying bitch". His assertion was untrue.


by amiches on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:44:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo (1.00 / 1)

I don't think Democrats that support Obama hate her, far from it.  I for one am more disappointed than anything else.  For her to sink to campaigning using GOP tactics is shameful.  I don't care if she is a man, woman, dog, tree, etc - when you run a campaign based on destroying your opponent rather than uniting the country and progressing the movement forward, you run the risk of turning off a lot of people as well as polarizing your own base.

She has done so much to destroy her own campaign; it's ridiculous to blame Obama for that.  Her list of lies, half-truths, secrecy, racism, sexism, and FEARMONGERING is shameful.

But hey, maybe McCain will take her as his VP since she burned that shot with Obama...fingers crossed for you guys!


by Rockville Liberal on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:09:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo (2.00 / 1)

You don't hate her?  You're disappointed?  Give me a break!  For a lot of women this election has been a real eye-opener about "liberals" and "progressives."  The only acceptable behavior for Hillary is to not fight back, to fall down in the playground and cry.  Hell, she'd even be criticized for that.  "Lies, half-truths, secrecy, sexism," -- you are describing Obama's campaign.  Don't you dare criticize Mark Penn when Obama has Robert Gibbs working for him.

You "liberals" and "progressives" are phony to the core.

And why should she pick a man who called her a racist for her VP?  I don't know how she ever even considered it.


by PlainWords on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:40:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo (1.00 / 1)

I don't hate her, I pity her.  The naked grab for power she is exhibiting is disgusting.  It has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman.  It has to do with the desire to be the most powerful individual in the world.  Big difference...I have absolutely no problem with her fighting back.  However, I have a big problem with her using the same tactics that she decried for so many years as a victim of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.  Guess the old adage is true; she has become what she hates the most.

Lastly, the fact that she is going to lose the nomination process means that, fortunately, she won't have to make that tough choice about VP nomination.  Then she will only have to worry about her primary in NY...Al Wynn says Hi...good luck with that.


by Rockville Liberal on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo , N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

I don't know.  Are you?  

HRC has far more experience than Obama.  Why can't you see it?  And as for exaggeration and dishonesty, Obama is king of that: claiming credit for legislation that others did or that didn't even pass (Wounded Warrier, Exelon); race-baiting; copying other people's words (D. Patrick, even J. Edwards) while basing his whole campaign on how much he inspires; wanting the rules thrown out when that helps him (superdelegates) and wanting to keep shamefully undemocratic rules when that helps him (Florida).

The guy is a demagogue.  It's a fair questions to ask why anyone with even a basic command of the facts would choose him over HRC.


by PlainWords on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:04:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo , N. Ireland (none / 0)

I was going to respond to your comment until you brought up the "plagiarism" smear. Instead, I'll just laugh at you.

P.S. Your candidate calls a USO tour with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow "bringing peace to Bosnia". Oh gosh, now I'm laughing again.


by amiches on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:40:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo , N. Ireland (2.00 / 1)

The thing about the plagiarism isn't that he copied.  It's that he isn't sincere and that the words are not from his heart.  He's a phony.  Watch the videos.  There are about four of them on You-Tube where you can compare the original speaker with Obama.  He is a manipulator.  Simple as that.


by PlainWords on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:33:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 6)

Thank you, alegre!  Yet another comprehensive diary (recommended) from you that sums up very well what I've personally found very difficult to try to find information about now.  My decision was made some time ago, but I become more and more impressed by this woman each time I see yet more information like this showing just how much she has in fact been doing all along!  Cheers to you...and God Bless Hillary!  

On a separate note, we have our first "Solutions for America's" Hillary Rally here in my PA region tomorrow.  I am so very excited to see and hear our future President myself!  I have no dooubt she is going to kick some serious butt in PA!!!


HRC: "...not a vote to rush to war--it...puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President, we say to him 'Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.'"
by ChargedFan on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:42:37 AM EST

Tell Her Hi From Us If You See Her (2.00 / 6)

Shake her hand and let her know we've got her back on the blogs ;o)

And have fun!  She's an amazing speaker - I've had the good fortune to hear her speak three times now and there's always something new and exciting in what she's got to say!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:48:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell Her Hi From Us If You See Her (2.00 / 4)

Oops!  Make that 4 times :o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:48:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell Her Hi From Us If You See Her (2.00 / 1)

Shall gladly do if I have the opportunity--which I hope to (I'm envious of your four times!)!!!  ;o)  I've seen all her speeches from her website and most from news/internet so far, including the debates, but I have no doubt I'll hear something I've not yet tomorrow!  I honestly can't wait! Cheers...and thank you again!


HRC: "...not a vote to rush to war--it...puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President, we say to him 'Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.'"
by ChargedFan on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:12:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 5)

Jamie Rubin also confirms her China work.  Great video!!!


by Mike Pridmore on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:58:08 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 4)

Thanks again, Alegre, for your hard work in the face of deceptive concerted opposition.  Hmm, you remind me of someone...


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:59:53 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

Alegre, great diary, as always. I hope your work gets the appreciation here that it deserves.


by OtherLisa on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:29:42 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 1)

Not to criticize, but shouldn't a pro-candidate diary use links from a third party source and not directly from the candidate's web-site?


by shalca on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:49:30 AM EST

That always amused me about the Internet (2.00 / 2)

Markos posting a link saying "Experts say" and I hit the link and it goes to another inane diatribe by Markos hiself.

Or David Sirota posting a link saying "Here's proof Clinton supported the bankruptcy bill" and I hit the link and it goes to an article written by David Sirota, with no other facts added to the screed, it merely repeats the accusation.

As if posting a link to yourself somehow gives some manner of credibility to a lie one is trying to push out into the consciousness of Americans.

So how is this different?

Look at the testimonials above.  While they have been culled together into one convenient place by the folks at hillaryhub......

Most people can figure it out.


by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:38:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Book Being Published This Year on This (2.00 / 5)

I posted this before on this issue, but I'm posting it here again for anyone interested in the truth:

Hillary's Irish Legacy

Prominent backers cite relevant role in peace process
By Ray O'Hanlon

http://www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story .cfm?id=18626

In a series of statements compiled by labor and fair employment advocate Inez McCormack, Clinton was lauded for her "decade-long support" of the peace process.

"We believe it is important for others to know the pivotal role Mrs. Clinton played in helping us in Northern Ireland at critical junctures in the peace process. She supported us over many years and we will always be grateful to her," said McCormack

"Hillary Clinton took risks for peace in asking me and others to bring women and communities from both traditions to affirm their capacity to work for common purpose," McCormack said.

"She used her immense influence to give women like me space to develop this work and validated it every step of the way. This approach is now taken for granted but it wasn't then. She told us that if we take risks for peace, she would stay with us on that journey. In my experience, it took hard work, attention to detail and a commitment of time and energy which she delivered steadily and where needed over the last decade," McCormack added.

Similar testimonies have been forthcoming from other women, Protestant and Catholic. They include prominent community worker Elaine Crozier, Baroness May Blood, a member of the British House of Lords, Geraldine McAteer, chief executive of the West Belfast Partnership Board, Avila Kilmurray, head of the Community Foundation for Northern Ireland, Patricia Lewsley, former member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and currently Commissioner for Children and Young People, and Joanna McVey, former CEO of the Fermanagh-published Impartial Reporter newspaper and chair of the Fermanagh Trust.

"She turned empathy into action. Her iconic address to the first Vital Voices conference in Belfast in 1998 was truly inspirational and her ongoing support for women's role in peace building and the transformation of economic and political life in the North was manifested through other initiatives and her own personal involvement," stated McVey in her statement.

That 1998 visit to the North was just one of seven undertaken by Clinton between 1995 and 2004, both with president Clinton and on her own. In addition, Clinton has hosted numerous visitors from both communities in the North on American soil.

A precise accounting of Clinton's visits to Ireland and her work for Irish peace forms the basis for a book being published later this year by Stella O'Leary, Washington. D.C.-based president of the Irish American Democrats lobby group.

[...]

"It will come as a huge surprise to the Irish, North and South, to hear Dick Morris and Eileen McGann's claim that Senator Hillary Clinton played no role in the Irish peace process," said O'Leary.

"Starting with the Christmas visit to Belfast in 1995, Hillary Clinton recognized that the participation of women was critical in bringing about an end to the conflict, and she set about inspiring women to become politically involved," O'Leary said.

"The meeting with Mrs. (Joyce) McCartan was a prelude to Senator Clinton opening a larger dialogue with women leaders on both sides of the border. At her prompting, the White House arranged for a delegation of American women leaders to meet in Belfast with their Irish counterparts and the outcome of that meeting was the Vital Voices Conference in 1998.

"As a result of that conference, Northern Ireland women became much more involved in running for elective office and when the time came, the Women's Party were full participants with George Mitchell in the peace negotiations.

[...]

O'Leary said that in her forthcoming book she would be including tributes to Clinton for her role in the peace process from individuals including Bertie Ahern, Cherie Blair, Gerry Adams, Bono and John Hume.

"Based on the tributes I received, the people of Ireland are profoundly grateful to Senator Clinton for taking an interest and giving her time to inspire us to pull together and build a better life for the people of Northern Ireland.

"If Morris and McGann are truly interested in knowing whether Senator Clintons involvement made a difference in Ireland, then I suggest that they consult some Irish people. The response will be an outpouring of gratitude, admiration, respect and love and, most of all, a heartfelt wish that Senator Clinton become the next President of the United States," O'Leary concluded.

This story appeared in the issue of March 5-11, 2008


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:06:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

N. Ireland Has always been the classic (2.00 / 2)

Example of how preconditions should be implemented during the Diplomatic Process.

Issuing a visa to Gerry Adams without a cease fire would have made things worse.  

Going to Belfast to shake his hand without a cease fire would have made things worse.

I think Alegre has seen my input on this, suffice to say since then I have still been chagrinned to continue to run into Obama supporters who keep asking "How could it have hurt?"  As if if Obama was facilitating the peace process in N. Ireland he would have issued the visa and gone to Belfast to shake Adams' hand without a cease fire.

Anyway, Clinton knows the process here.

If Obama does, then it's just another case of him projecting something different through campaign rhetoric.

If he doesn't, he'll be one termer, and we'll all get to say he was well meaning.


by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:50:39 AM EST

come on, be serious (none / 0)

There's not a thing cited here but "facts" from HillaryHub.com. She got caught embellishing her resume and now she'll have to take a few steps back. It's okay, people inflate their resumes all the time - but then again, most people aren't running for President. Kind of sets off alarm bells in my head, if you ask me.


by amiches on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:06:03 AM EST

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 5)

They sited the statement of various people and the Irish newspaper with the specific date.   You can search google if you are so incline to check.


by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:53:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 2)

The actual architects of the Belfast accords have gone on record as saying that Hillary had no substantive role in the peace process, and her trip to the Balkans was a smile-and-waver with Sinbad and  Sheryl Crow.


by amiches on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:56:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 4)

please provide evidence to support your statement.


by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:22:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 3)

And Has Obama done anything close to what Hillary has done?  He went to Kenya and spoke for the riot.  so much for peace and unifier.


by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 1)

Obama's not running on "35 years" of foreign policy experience, dude. And I'm not going to sit here and point-by-point refute every word on HillaryHub.com.

Say what you want to about the Big Evil Orange, but diaries consisting solely of copy-and-paste jobs from BarackObama.com don't make the rec list there.


by amiches on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:09:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 3)

no two sentences with an Obama video do though


by TexMex on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:20:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 1)

Obama Campaign Memo:

RE: Senator Clinton's claim to be experienced in foreign policy: Just words?

News of Senator Clinton's claims has raised eyebrows across the ocean. Her reference to an important meeting at the Belfast town hall was debunked. Her only appearance at the Belfast City Hall was to see Christmas lights turned on. She also attended a 50-minute meeting which, according to the Belfast Daily Telegraph's report at the time, "[was] a little bit stilted, a little prepared at times." Brian Feeney, an Irish author and former politician, sums it up: "The road to peace was carefully documented, and she wasn't on it."


by JoeCoaster on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:11:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (2.00 / 1)

Joe, you do realize that the person who is quoted in that statement is an author and "former politician" whose personal knowledge of the crisis we know nothing about.  Also, the quote from the Belfast Daily Telegraph simply talks about a meeting in Ireland, the subject of which is not discussed, and the source of which is not named.  Alegre's news stories have sources, and it shows that Hillary has garnered awards for her work.  Why would you believe Obama's faulty sources over Hillary's well documented ones?  


by Change101 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on, be serious (1.50 / 2)

"Why would you believe Obama's faulty sources over Hillary's well documented ones?"

...because Obama's followers "believe in" him.  It's a religion.  They don't need proof.


by PlainWords on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:07:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (none / 0)

A quick question, and I am looking for an honest answer, with all this foreign policy "experience" as it is claimed here, would Hillary have been qualified to run for President in 2000?


by AHunch on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:28:32 AM EST

An Answer to your question (2.00 / 6)

I think her Senate experience, especially working with the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee and the Armed Services Committee, plus being the only Senator to be asked to serve on the Transformation Advisory Group to the Joint Forces Command, combined with the experience mentioned in this blog, combined with her experiences working with education and children as First Lady of Arkansas, have given her a vast array of experiences that complete the palette of her resume.  It's a very strong one that touches on many things a president will need to confront. (Yes, I support HRC(.


by cmugirl90 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:11:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ahhhh (2.00 / 1)

That must be why George Mitchell doesn't even mention her role in his book about the peace accords.  Her importance was so obvious that his memoir on the negotiations need not have covered it.


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:55:56 AM EST

Re: Mitchell Did Mention It In His Book... (2.00 / 5)

George Mitchell: She was helpful and supportive, very much involved in the issues, knew all of the delegates. She accompanied President Clinton on each visit he made to Northern Ireland, made several visits of her own. Her greatest focus was on encouraging women in Northern Ireland to get in and stay in the political process, the peace process. I have said publicly many times and wrote in my book, the role of women in the peace process in Northern Ireland was significant. It did make a difference in the process.."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/1 0/eveningnews/m...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mitchell Did Mention It In His Book... (none / 0)

I'll have to re-read the book then - because I just don't recall her name coming up.


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:13:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your quote does not support your claim (none / 0)

"I have said publicly many times and wrote in my book, the role of women in the peace process in Northern Ireland was significant."

This quote says his book mentiones the importance of women to the peace process.

This quote does not say Sen Clinton was one of those women.

The non-bolded part of your quote did not come from his book.  It comes from some undated quote that was made after the book had been published.


Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.
by Quicklund on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:55:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your quote does not support your claim (2.00 / 1)

Did you miss the first sentence???  "George Mitchell: She was helpful and supportive, very much involved in the issues, knew all of the delegates. She accompanied President Clinton on each visit he made to Northern Ireland, made several visits of her own. Her greatest focus was on encouraging women in Northern Ireland to get in and stay in the political process, the peace process."

Come on people.  If you want to debunk Hillary's claims, and you're using a quote, at least read the first part of it!


by Change101 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:16:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your quote does not support your claim (none / 0)

Did you read the part where I talked about the non-bolded portion of the quote?  I assume not, since that is the portion you quote back to me.  Here's the point:

That part does not appear in his book.


Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.
by Quicklund on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mitchell Did Mention It In His Book... (none / 0)

George must be talking about a different book...

The book that I read was 'Making Peace: The behind-the-scenes story of the negotiations that culminated in the signing of the Northern Ireland Peace Accord".

Like I said - having read this book and clearly not remembering much mention of Hillary Clinton, I decided to check it on Google books.   The book was about 200 or so pages - and since I read for leisure purposes, quite possible I just didn't closely pay attention to what Mitchell wrote of Clinton.

Soo... Google books tells me the first occurrence of the word "Hillary" appears on page 82 (not included in the preview) - and from the google blurb, appears to be concerning seating arrangements.  You can check the search yourself here.

My copy of the title is currently on loan to a friend, but if someone can point me to the page number(s) -- or even the chapter -- where Hillary's critical role in discussed in the book, I will be happy to return with apologies for questioning whether this isn't a case of Hillary being "all hat and no cattle" -- and trying to take a modicum of credit for something she didn't have a whole to do with.


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:29:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well done, alegre! (2.00 / 5)

Another fine diary. Thanks for helping to keep the truth out there and for educating despite the baiters and negative vibes. You are one cool hand at the keyboard, my friend.


by Soitgoes on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:07:16 AM EST

Yup, Alegre can use (1.33 / 3)

Ctrl-c and Ctrl-v like the best of them.  I can only imagine how well she'll write if she has an original thought.


by corph on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:26:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Experience is Way Overstated (none / 0)

Greg Craig who used to direct the State Department's Policy Planning staff comes close in a new memo:

"When your entire campaign is based upon a claim of experience, it is important that you have evidence to support that claim. Hillary Clinton's argument that she has passed "the Commander- in-Chief test" is simply not supported by her record.

There is no doubt that Hillary Clinton played an important domestic policy role when she was First Lady. It is well known, for example, that she led the failed effort to pass universal health insurance. There is no reason to believe, however, that she was a key player in foreign policy at any time during the Clinton Administration. She did not sit in on National Security Council meetings. She did not have a security clearance. She did not attend meetings in the Situation Room. She did not manage any part of the national security bureaucracy, nor did she have her own national security staff. She did not do any heavy-lifting with foreign governments, whether they were friendly or not. She never managed a foreign policy crisis, and there is no evidence to suggest that she participated in the decision-making that occurred in connection with any such crisis. As far as the record shows, Senator Clinton never answered the phone either to make a decision on any pressing national security issue - not at 3 AM or at any other time of day."


by chatters71 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:17:20 AM EST

This can't be true... (2.00 / 5)

I heard Keith Olbermann making fun of her work last night on his show. He quoted some woman who is now an Obama campaign adviser, and her talked over a short video of Wolfson responding to the snide alegations. He was very dismissive, so it is clear that these substantive facts must amount to nothing. Keith wouldn't lie...


by MediaFreeze on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:18:23 AM EST

Re: This can't be true... (2.00 / 2)

I remember when I used to love Olbermann. Last night I flipped the channel after I flipped him off after 1 minute. He has fallen so far into Obamamania that it seeps from his pores. He can't hide it and, from what I've seen lately, doesn't care. I am done with him....


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's become disgusted (none / 0)

with Hillary Clinton campaign tactics, and is calling them on it. But of course, the problem must be him, not the Clinton campaign.


by corph on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:28:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes.................... (2.00 / 1)


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:12:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No. (none / 0)


by corph on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (none / 0)

Here is info regarding the exchange between Hume and Trimble ; the truth likely falls in between.

Hume and Trimble disagree over Hillary peace role

THE influence of US
presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton in brokering peace in Ulster has become a source of disagreement between two former prominent players in the talks process.
Comments by Lord Trimble playing down Mrs Clinton's role in securing agreement have caused waves in her presidential campaign, and led to them swiftly posting contradictory remarks on her website from John Hume.

The joint Nobel Peace Prize winners are at odds over Mrs Clinton's role in the run-up to, and after, the 1998 Good Friday accord, when she was First Lady.

A central plank in Mrs Clinton's offensive in her closely fought contest for the presidential nomination against rival Barack Obama, has been her claims of having extensive foreign policy experience, citing Northern Ireland as a prime example.

She is reported as telling CNN last week: "I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland."

However, over the weekend Mr Trimble said she had been a "wee bit silly" for saying such.

The former Ulster Unionist leader and First Minister told the Daily Telegraph: "I don't know there was much she did apart from accompanying (former President] Bill (Clinton] going around.

Principal

"She visited when things were happening, saw what was going on, she can certainly say it was part of her experience. I don't want to rain on the thing for her, but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player," he added.

Former SDLP leader John Hume holds a different view and a statement in his name was put on Mrs Clinton's official website.

Countering Lord Trimble's remarks, Mr Hume said: "I am quite surprised that anyone would suggest that Hillary Clinton did not perform important foreign policy work as First Lady. I can state from firsthand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland.

"She visited Northern Ireland, met with very many people and gave very decisive support to the peace process.

"In private she made countless calls and contacts, speaking to leaders and opinion makers on all sides, urging them to keep moving forward."

According to her website, Mrs Clinton visited the Province on seven occasions between 1995 and 2004. It claims she focused especially on encouraging the emergence of women in the peace process.

Campaign

Senator Clinton took time out of her presidential campaign to meet outgoing First Minister, Ian Paisley and Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness on their joint visit to the US in December.

The row is an embarrassment for the Clinton campaign, who are locked in a closely fought and increasingly bitter battle with rival contender for the Democratic nomination Barack Obama.

Last night his campaign had not formally commented on the row, and his official website had no reference to Lord Trimble's comments.


by Kensingtonbill on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:28 AM EST

If that's "vast experience", then (none / 0)

Sen Joe Biden is Franklyn, Louis XIV, Gladstone, Bismark, Marshall and Annan all rolled into one.  

Thought Food: The DemocraticParty has already rejected the epxerienced candidates.  The choice remaining before us is between two cadidates belonging to the "inexperienced" category.  

So he judgement becomes one of leadership talent.

Obama got Iraq exactly right.
Clinton got Iraq exactly wrong.

Game, set, match.

Cast your vote for Obama.

(And 'hello' to the  MyDD community.)


Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.
by Quicklund on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:51:16 AM EST

Re: If that's "vast experience", then (2.00 / 3)

This is such a silly argument, I hate to respond --

But Hillary got OH, FL, and MI exactly right, BO exactly wrong. When you are talking presidential politics that's game set match.

I wish BO had more domestic experience...experience with presidential politics. He shows his naivete every day...his stance toward FL and MI, and toward what he calls Archie Bunker democrats (insulting, insulting, term) may cost Democrats presidential elections, and congressional seats for several decades. He's a neophyte when it comes to presidential politics and NAFTA GATE and his flip-flop on Iraq, and immature statements about bombing Pakistan all show him to be unready for the job of president of the us.


by seattlegonz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If that's "vast experience", then (none / 0)

Your characterize your counter-argument well; it is silly.


Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.
by Quicklund on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (2.00 / 3)

Great diary, thanks so much. Wow, I think that was the first time I've heard sexism brought up as a factor in the strategy for dismissing Hillary. And, of course, there's the righteous indignation quick on it's heels. Give me a break.

The other day Daschele was spitting with disgust about Hillary's First Lady experience, likening being a first lady to be being a lamp post. These guys do not understand how stupid they sound.


by seattlegonz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:06:28 PM EST

Bogus Diary (none / 0)

Here is an easy rebuttal to the bogus argument that Hillary played any significant role in Kosovo, China or Ireland:

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics /2008/03/team_obama_hits_clinton_on_exp. html

Game. Set. Match.

OBAMA08


by Lawdawg on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:03:32 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo & N. Ireland (none / 0)

HRC should just stick to the truth.  She has her own experience but it is a sign of low character to take credit for the work of others.

NORTHERN IRELAND: HRC, "I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland."
FACT: The road to peace was carefully documented, and she wasn't on it

CHINA: HRC, "I've been standing up to the Chinese government over women's rights."
FACT: Being sent to China to speak at a conference doesn't translate into presidential crisis management credentials.

KOSOVO: HRC, "I negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo."
FACT: The person who was able to get the border opened was Mrs. Sadako Ogata, the U.N. high commissioner for refugees.

BOSNIA: HRC, "If the place was too small, too dangerous or too poor, send Hillary."
FACT: Sinbad and Sheryl Crow accompanied HRC.  Officials said at the time that she took no extraordinary risks.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:04:54 PM EST

Why do you like cut & paste from HRC? (none / 0)

   To: Interested Parties

   From: Greg Craig, former director, Policy Planning Office, U.S. State Department

   RE: Senator Clinton's claim to be experienced in foreign policy: Just words?

   DA: March 11, 2008

   When your entire campaign is based upon a claim of experience, it is important that you have evidence to support that claim. Hillary Clinton's argument that she has passed "the Commander- in-Chief test" is simply not supported by her record.

   There is no doubt that Hillary Clinton played an important domestic policy role when she was First Lady. It is well known, for example, that she led the failed effort to pass universal health insurance. There is no reason to believe, however, that she was a key player in foreign policy at any time during the Clinton Administration. She did not sit in on National Security Council meetings. She did not have a security clearance. She did not attend meetings in the Situation Room. She did not manage any part of the national security bureaucracy, nor did she have her own national security staff. She did not do any heavy-lifting with foreign governments, whether they were friendly or not. She never managed a foreign policy crisis, and there is no evidence to suggest that she participated in the decision-making that occurred in connection with any such crisis. As far as the record shows, Senator Clinton never answered the phone either to make a decision on any pressing national security issue - not at 3 AM or at any other time of day.

   When asked to describe her experience, Senator Clinton has cited a handful of international incidents where she says she played a central role. But any fair-minded and objective judge of these claims - i.e., by someone not affiliated with the Clinton campaign - would conclude that Senator Clinton's claims of foreign policy experience are exaggerated.

   Northern Ireland:

   Senator Clinton has said, "I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland." It is a gross overstatement of the facts for her to claim even partial credit for bringing peace to Northern Ireland. She did travel to Northern Ireland, it is true. First Ladies often travel to places that are a focus of U.S. foreign policy. But at no time did she play any role in the critical negotiations that ultimately produced the peace. As the Associated Press recently reported, "[S]he was not directly involved in negotiating the Good Friday peace accord." With regard to her main claim that she helped bring women together, she did participate in a meeting with women, but, according to those who know best, she did not play a pivotal role. The person in charge of the negotiations, former Senator George Mitchell, said that "[The First Lady] was one of many people who participated in encouraging women to get involved, not the only one."

   News of Senator Clinton's claims has raised eyebrows across the ocean. Her reference to an important meeting at the Belfast town hall was debunked. Her only appearance at the Belfast City Hall was to see Christmas lights turned on. She also attended a 50-minute meeting which, according to the Belfast Daily Telegraph's report at the time, "[was] a little bit stilted, a little prepared at times." Brian Feeney, an Irish author and former politician, sums it up: "The road to peace was carefully documented, and she wasnâ€<sup>TM</sup>t on it."

   Bosnia:

   Senator Clinton has pointed to a March 1996 trip to Bosnia as proof that her foreign travel involved a life-risking mission into a war zone. She has described dodging sniper fire. While she did travel to Bosnia in March 1996, the visit was not a high-stakes mission to a war zone. On March 26, 1996, the New York Times reported that "Hillary Rodham Clinton charmed American troops at a U.S.O. show here, but it didn't hurt that the singer Sheryl Crow and the comedian Sinbad were also on the stage."

   Kosovo:

   Senator Clinton has said, "I negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo." It is true that, as First Lady, she traveled to Macedonia and visited a Kosovar refugee camp. It is also true that she met with government officials while she was there. First Ladies frequently meet with government officials. Her claim to have "negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo," however, is not true. Her trip to Macedonia took place on May 14, 1999. The borders were opened the day before, on May 13, 1999.

   The negotiations that led to the opening of the borders were accomplished by the people who ordinarily conduct negotiations with foreign governments - U.S. diplomats. President Clinton's top envoy to the Balkans, former Ambassador Robert Gelbard, said, "I cannot recall any involvement by Senator Clinton in this issue." Ivo Daalder worked on the Clinton Administration's National Security Council and wrote a definitive history of the Kosovo conflict. He recalls that "she had absolutely no role in the dirty work of negotiations."

   Rwanda:

   Last year, former President Clinton asserted that his wife pressed him to intervene with U.S. troops to stop the Rwandan genocide. When asked about this assertion, Hillary Clinton said it was true. There is no evidence, however, to suggest that this ever happened. Even those individuals who were advocating a much more robust U.S. effort to stop the genocide did not argue for the use of U.S. troops. No one recalls hearing that Hillary Clinton had any interest in this course of action. Based on a fair and thorough review of National Security Council deliberations during those tragic months, there is no evidence to suggest that U.S. military intervention was ever discussed. Prudence Bushnell, the Assistant Secretary of State with responsibility for Africa, has recalled that there was no consideration of U.S. military intervention.

   At no time prior to her campaign for the presidency did Senator Clinton ever make the claim that she supported intervening militarily to stop the Rwandan genocide. It is noteworthy that she failed to mention this anecdote - urging President Clinton to intervene militarily in Rwanda - in her memoirs. President Clinton makes no mention of such a conversation with his wife in his memoirs. And Madeline Albright, who was Ambassador to the United Nations at the time, makes no mention of any such event in her memoirs.

   Hillary Clinton did visit Rwanda in March 1998 and, during that visit, her husband apologized for America's failure to do more to prevent the genocide.

   China:

   Senator Clinton also points to a speech that she delivered in Beijing in 1995 as proof of her ability to answer a 3 AM crisis phone call. It is strange that Senator Clinton would base her own foreign policy experience on a speech that she gave over a decade ago, since she so frequently belittles Barack Obamaâ€<sup>TM</sup>s speeches opposing the Iraq War six years ago. Let there be no doubt: she gave a good speech in Beijing, and she stood up for women's rights. But Senator Obama's opposition to the War in Iraq in 2002 is relevant to the question of whether he, as Commander-in-Chief, will make wise judgments about the use of military force. Senator Clinton's speech in Beijing is not.

   Senator Obama's speech opposing the war in Iraq shows independence and courage as well as good judgment. In the speech that Senator Clinton says does not qualify him to be Commander in Chief, Obama criticized what he called "a rash war . . . a war based not on reason, but on passion, not on principle, but on politics." In that speech, he said prophetically: "[E]ven a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences." He predicted that a U.S. invasion of Iraq would "fan the flames of the Middle East," and "strengthen the recruitment arm of al Qaeda." He urged the United States first to "finish the fight with Bin Laden and al Qaeda."

   If the U.S. government had followed Barack Obama's advice in 2002, we would have avoided one of the greatest foreign policy catastrophes in our nation's history. Some of the most "experienced" men in national security affairs - Vice President Cheney and Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and others - led this nation into that catastrophe. That lesson should teach us something about the value of judgment over experience. Longevity in Washington, D.C. does not guarantee either wisdom of judgment.

   Conclusion:

   The Clinton campaign's argument is nothing more than mere assertion, dramatized in a scary television commercial with a telephone ringing in the middle of the night. There is no support for or substance in the claim that Senator Clinton has passed "the Commander-in-Chief test." That claim - as the TV ad - consists of nothing more than making the assertion, repeating it frequently to the voters and hoping that they will believe it.

   On the most critical foreign policy judgment of our generation - the War in Iraq - Senator Clinton voted in support of a resolution entitled "The Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of U.S. Military Force Against Iraq." As she cast that vote, she said: "This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make - any vote that may lead to war should be hard - but I cast it with conviction." In this campaign, Senator Clinton has argued - remarkably - that she wasn't actually voting for war, she was voting for diplomacy. That claim is no more credible than her other claims of foreign policy experience. The real tragedy is that we are still living with the terrible consequences of her misjudgment. The Bush Administration continues to cite that resolution as its authorization - like a blank check - to fight on with no end in sight.

   Barack Obama has a very simple case. On the most important commander in chief test of our generation, he got it right, and Senator Clinton got it wrong. In truth, Senator Obama has much more foreign policy experience than either Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan had when they were elected. Senator Obama has worked to confront 21st century challenges like proliferation and genocide on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He possesses the personal attributes of a great leader - an even temperament, an open-minded approach to even the most challenging problems, a willingness to listen to all views, clarity of vision, the ability to inspire, conviction and courage.

   And Barack Obama does not use false charges and exaggerated claims to play politics with national security.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:17:48 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo &amp; N. Ireland (none / 0)

Once again as i said. I really hope she wins the presidency because we all know how great she was helping us poor Rwandese and asking her husband to help even though he didn't seem to have known much about it as he told us when he visited in 1998. it is really a shame to try and win and promote your foreign policy experience on the back of 1 million dead people when you did nothing to even help them. Good luck to her, i hope you all enjoy her presidency!!!


by er1975 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:35:57 PM EST

Security (none / 0)

For me, the most damning part of the Obama memo is the point that Clinton did not have security clearance and did not attend national security meetings. Those are verifiable facts, not differences of opinion over relative importance to the Irish peace process, and presumably someone has indeed verified them or they are an idiot for putting them in a memo.

If she didn't have security clearance, if she didn't attend national security meetings, what exactly is her experience in responding to security crises?


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:58:44 PM EST

Re: Security - Its Logical Conculusion (none / 0)

Would not HRC's lack of a security clearance also have made it improper / illegal for anyone with a clearance (such as her husband) to discuss classified matters with her?  

So, she was out saving the world with no access to classfied information regarding the U.S.' position on the issues.  

That seems pretty far fetched.  


by ruskin on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sinbad: Hillary's Bosnia Claims Bogus (2.00 / 1)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/20 08/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.htm l


by Lawdawg on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:58:47 PM EST

What kind of President? (2.00 / 1)

"What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"


No vetting is complete until we've seen the tax returns.
by Bill White on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:52:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is it all worth (none / 0)

Even assuming Clinton was such a force and expert in foreign policy matters, how could she have voted for the war in Iraq in 2002?

She has blood on her hands.  What ever good she may or may not have done to resolve other conflicts (and I think its critical to assess contemporaneous sources and not statements made by anyone during a political campaign) has been completely overshadowed by the disater in Iraq.

America will suffer the consquences of its ill-advised war in Iraq, and she is responsible for it.  It was an obvious error of judgment.

Frankly, I don't care if she brought peace to Ireland, single handedly saved tens of thousands of Albanian refugees or emancipated millions of Chinese women - she has blood on her hands, American and Iraqi. She failed the most critical test of a commander in chief.  


by ruskin on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:12:53 PM EST

Re: What is it all worth (2.00 / 1)

She is responsible for it?  The same "she" who has an identical voting record on the war with Obama?

What is with you people?  Come on, admit it:  you're a 15-year-old.  I know it.


by PlainWords on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What kind of President? (2.00 / 2)

"What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

Sinbad


No vetting is complete until we've seen the tax returns.
by Bill White on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:51:33 PM EST

Sinbad speaks (2.00 / 1)

   Clinton, during a late December campaign appearance in Iowa, described a hair-raising corkscrew landing in war-torn Bosnia, a trip she took with her then-teenage daughter, Chelsea. "They said there might be sniper fire," Clinton said.

   Threat of bullets? Sinbad doesn't remember that, either.

   "I never felt that I was in a dangerous position. I never felt being in a sense of peril, or 'Oh, God, I hope I'm going to be OK when I get out of this helicopter or when I get out of his tank.'"

   In her Iowa stump speech, Clinton also said, "We used to say in the White House that if a place is too dangerous, too small or too poor, send the First Lady."

   Say what? As Sinbad put it: "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:29:01 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo &amp; N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

Great post, but it's too much reading for the Obama people.  Wish you had put the video at the top (but I know it's an update).  Somebody should transcribe some of Tucker's comments because they would energize thousands of women -- the ones who think everything is fine for women in America.  Are they in for a shock.


by PlainWords on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:13:43 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo &amp; N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

It's obvious after you read a through a page of this stuff, that those who HATE Hillary have a serious case of Cognitive Dissonance and will not even allow themselves for a minute to give her the credit she deserves as one of our times most influential and important figures.

It baffles me. Is your ego SO BIG that you can't even acknowledge that she has accomplished some very "presidential" things? Facts are facts - Hillary Clinton has had MORE EXPERIENCE as a world leader than BARACK OBAMA.

Jeez.


by devoted1 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:48:07 PM EST

We didn't always hate her (none / 0)

Nobody hated Hillary until she got desperate and decided to say that Obama wasn't ready to be Commander in Chief, at a time when it was already clear that he was going to win the nomination.  The hatred comes from her crapping on the Democratic Party and the nation. Before that, I admired her greatly, just not as much as him.  And that's how the campaigns should have been before her actions.

And now you're upset because we defend him by exposing her conflated view of her experience-- with  PR being spun as accomplishments.


by drjk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sinbad (1.00 / 1)

The one word that sums up her experience in Kosovo.

Hillary Clinton is ready to entertain on Day 1.  Too bad she blew her VP chances with all this "Ready on Day 1" crap.


by drjk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:27:37 PM EST

Wow, Tucker couldn't be more denigrating (2.00 / 2)

About the importance of women in a peace process, could he.

It's amazing how many men think that anything involving women is irrelevant to the world at large.  If it isn't men involved, then it DOESN'T MATTER in their eyes.

Just amazing...


by splashy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:52:12 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo &amp; N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

I live in the North of Ireland and I konw first hand all the work she did here. I have posted article from 1996 right through to 2008 on hillaryworldwide.org

she continues to help here even now, we love her here and want her to win in 2008!!


by pangurdubh on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 07:33:10 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Work on Kosovo &amp; N. Ireland (2.00 / 2)

HIllary was paramount in getting women into politics here, before hillary created Vital Voices women were no represented here. Hillary also worked with Mo Molam the then NI secretary on many things, they were very close until Mo died. so this shite written by this Brit reporter assigned in the USA, he writes for the telegraph in England a trash tabloid that is anti-irish. As for wee Davie Trimble, he's off the prozac, his career ended when he refused to move forward with the GFA,no one has heard a word from him in years, until Herndon dug him up just so he could write a trash article about Hillary. Some things here never change:)


by pangurdubh on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 07:38:07 PM EST

Breaking: Obama unsure about Irish Forum (none / 0)

NYT is on the story - Obama has to 'check his schedule' or something, rather than show up at the Irish Forum

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/ 03/11/meet-me-at-the-irish-forum/


by Molee on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:10:13 PM EST

That's funny (none / 0)

There seem to be those who disagree about this matter:

[But one of the key Irish negotiators last week called Clinton's description of her role in the process a "wee bit silly."

"I don't know there was much she did apart from accompanying Bill (Clinton) going around," David Trimble told Belfast's Daily Telegraph.

Trimble, the former leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, and John Hume, leader of the nationalist Social Democratic Labour Party, shared the 1998 Nobel Peace Prize for their roles in the peace process. "I don't want to rain on the thing for her, but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player," Trimble said.]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/stor y/30048.html


by jaywillie on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:41:56 AM EST


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