Judgment vs experience

Suppose you said that judgment is the most important quality, not experience?  How then do you get judgment?  by having some bad experiences, that's how.  You don't just have good judgment, it is earned through experience.  And you don't learn from success but from failures.  So it is such a stupid reach and do you know why?  Because Obama has no experience, but claims to have better judgment, but I dispute that he actually has this great judgment he is claiming to have.  How can a man who has such great judgment have a friend for 17 years and not know he is corrupt?  How can a man use his influence to get money for this friend, see that the work is not being done and still get more money for him to rip of his own constituents.  How can a man claim to have such great judgment that he would use that friend to acquire a property after he knows that the guy is under investigation to get said property and then casually say the it was a bone headed decision?  How does this prove this guy has such superior judgment?  Because he gave a speech where he didn't support a war that was supposed to find weapons of mass destruction?  Perhaps he had some inside information that told him that those weapons did not exist, maybe he did know they were not there, maybe he should tell us what that information was and where he got it because our intelligence agencies sure could have used it at the time.  Such great judgment that he would chose for his mentor in the senate one senator from Conn. who happened to be an independent who supported the very war he himself decries with such fervor now.  Same guy, same war, who now touts the support from men who also supported this war and voted for this war but then changed their minds, like so many Americans who have changed their minds about this war.  Maybe the same guy who claims than his judgment is so superior that experience of the other candidate means nothing, that spending 8 years in the WH gives her not one bit of experience to handle anything, no his judgment is supposed to outweigh hers why?  One vote in the senate?  Really?  How dross.

Now comes the claim that not only is judgment far better than experience but that his is better by far because he doesn't have any experience.  Is that right?  Because he has no experience that's better?  In fact, now that you mention it, being a first lady doesn't give you anything much to speak of, no you only had tea and crumpets with women, and we all know how unimportant women are in the world, they don't matter, so what if you were the wife of a president, doesn't matter, can't use that experience.  What if you have represented our country in other countries throughout the world, nope, doesn't matter, can't count any of that, but his experience in a state senate, now that's experience we can count on, wait I thought that experience didn't matter it was judgment we wanted, no in this case its experience, legislative experience, you see, its the number of years he has as a legislator, state senate is fine, counts, white house, not that doesn't count, you were not the president so you can't count that.  You see how ridiculous this gets?  What counts is what counts, right?  If you are talking about having experience, only his counts, because everyone knows that what a woman does representing her husband doesn't count, everyone know that right?

When you get right down to it, whatever Hillary Clinton brings to the table can be dismissed with a casual insult, but anything Obama does is well, great! right?  Right?  He's the ONE, right? O.K. then, pass the coolaid.  That stuff isn't spiked is it?  Cause I don't want anything that's spiked, gotta keep my wits about me.



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Re: Judgment vs experience (2.00 / 1)

How can a man who has such great judgment have a friend for 17 years and not know he is corrupt?

Guilt by association. Nice. Wanna talk about Jim MacDougal? Hugh Rodham? Peter Giustra? Peter Paul? The Saudi government?

Such great judgment that he would chose for his mentor in the senate one senator from Conn. who happened to be an independent who supported the very war he himself decries with such fervor now.

Obama didn't "choose" Lieberman as his mentor, the Dem leadership assigned him.

It's comical watching Clinton supporters try to blame Obama for Lieberman

Tim Tagaris:
President Clinton, on the other hand, probably provided the singular destructive post-primary moment of anyone outside the campaign.  He provided every national Democrat the cover they needed to stay out of the race in one single moment on Larry King Live.  He said he wasn't too concerned about who won the election between Ned and Joe.  Mind you, this was post-primary, and he was pretty much the first big-name national Democrat to do so. When he was asked to put out a statement clarifying that he supported Ned, we were told he was on vacation, but one would be forthcoming.  Well, we got one mealy-mouthed sentence a few days later.  He never made it right.  Ever.

Maybe the same guy who claims than his judgment is so superior that experience of the other candidate means nothing, that spending 8 years in the WH gives her not one bit of experience to handle anything,

Her "eight years in the WH" led her to vote for Bush's war. You can belittle Obama's opposition to it all you want. It doesn't change the fact that she voted for it, and her husband advocated for it.

She said in her book that the greatest crisis she faced in the White House was finding out about Monica Lewinsky. I'm not sure what kind of qualification that "experience" is.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:24:42 PM EST

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

There were 77 senators who did the same, but none of them actually marched those troops into Iraq.  No, the blame for this war rests squarely on Bush's shoulders, not those senators, who were pressured politically to vote for the resolution, and you just can't say that that vote even meant a damned thing because Bush had the authority to do it without their vote.  No, the vote was ostensibly for the U.N.  The U.N. clearly said that to get the inspectors back into Iraq the threat of force was necessary.  I just bet you didn't listen to her speech on the senate floor, which I did listen to at the time.  She clearly said that her vote was a vote to get the inspectors back into Iraq.  She also said that she was giving the president an awesome responsibility and to use it wisely and only as a last resort, which Bush did not do, even though he told her he would, it was just another lie, in a long line of lies Bush has told, but to blame her exclusively and excuse everyone else, from Kerry, to Daschle, to all the other senators who have jumped onto the supposed Obama gravy train for perceived political gain is just wrong.  She did not cause this war at all, and even at that she was the sitting senator from NY and they had just been attacked, so it is understandable she might fear Iraq having weapons of mass destruction and want those inspectors back into Iraq.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (2.00 / 2)

she was the sitting senator from NY and they had just been attacked,

You just lost this argument. I can't believe Democrats are now trying to use 9/11 to justify the Iraq invasion. Unfuckingbelievable.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Great cussing shows just how mature you really are, so grown up you can use the f bomb.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (2.00 / 1)

You're more offended by an "f bomb" than by the ones going off in Iraq? Terrific priorities.

Also, you used the most despicable, dishonest argument Bush and Cheney came up with to defend Clinton's lousy judgement. I think profanity was called for.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:26:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Now see here, you know nothing about me, and you don't know that I want bombs going off in Iraq.  That is such as disturbing thing, just because I criticized you for your use of the word, you go all ballistic, which actually shows where you are at, not me.

I do not in fact want bombs going off anywhere at all.  To take my words and twist them to imply such an ugly thing just shows that you really don't support Obama you just like to hate Clinton.  Hate Hasten more hate.  When you hate all day long what you become is a hater.  You must be pretty miserable by now.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

You obviously don't read very well either because I did not use 9/11 to justify the Iraq war, I used it to show why Clinton might want the inspectors back into Iraq.  See how you distort to fit your narrative?  It was Bush who used 9/11 to invade Iraq, not Clinton, see how you have transfered your hatred to her.  See how your hatred colors your comments with such ugly tones?


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:26:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've had friends for years who were later arrested (none / 0)

I had no clue as to their nefarious activities until after their arrest and conviction.

So your game does not play.

I will say this. Abraham Lincoln was the most inexperienced CIC we ever had when he took office, and he arguably became one of the best presidents in history. James Buchanan took office with the most experience of any president before or since, and he is always ranked as the worst president in American history.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:34:51 PM EST

Re: I've had friends for years who were later arre (none / 0)

Yes of course, that excuses him for his new house too I guess?  But then you tar and feather Clinton for the same things don't you?


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:52:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've had friends for years who (2.00 / 1)

He doesn't need an excuse for his house, which was purchased with no wrongdoing whatsoever.


by Cycloptichorn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've had friends for years who were later arre (2.00 / 1)

Why would he need to make excuses for his house when he submitted the highest bid and paid what amounted to more than the fair market value for the extra lot since there was no viable use for that extra land other than to be part of his yard?


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Judgment (none / 0)

Yes, judgment can only be measured through the prism of actions in actual events.

Obama is an honorable man, but I don't think he's really proven just how superior his "judgment" is.  If the speech against the Iraq War is exhibit A, then I'm curious to see exhibits B to Z.


by Sieglinde on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:44:43 PM EST

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

So?  Doesn't even compare to now.  Now we are already in this war, but Obama lies and says what the people want to hear, but on the inside, he says, well, we'll see when I'm president, and of course, that means he doesn't support actually getting out, just saying he wants to.

As for Lieberman, don't think that just because he was "assigned" that couldn't be changed?  And you have been in the senate?  You know this because?  And his endorsements don't count now because?

Face it, anything the guy does, is great as far as your concerned, see you already prove the very point thanks for playing.

Excuses for Obama attacks for Clinton.  

But what about the actual point, not the details which really don't matter anyway, the point, how do you get judgment?  Through experience, usually bad experiences, that's how.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:49:21 PM EST

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

I'm just pointing out that everything you said can be turned right around on Clinton. You people are throwing rocks from a glass house.

As for Lieberman, I wish Obama had done more for Lamont, but no serious person can deny that Bill Clinton did a hundred times more for Lieberman than Obama.

Hillary Clinton's "judgment" was to give George W. Bush a blank check for this war. Hillary Clinton's "judgement" led her to vote for Kyl-Lieberman. Hillary Clinton's "judgement" leads her to puff up the credentials of Bombs-away McCain. Hillary Clinton's "judgement" led her to lie and demagogue about Obama's stance on NAFTA. Hillary Clinton's "judgement" is to try and stoke people's fears about national security, a dumbing-down of the debate that only helps Republicans in the long run.

Hillary Clinton's "experience" has led her to be a middling senator, a dishonest campaigner, and a losing presidential candidate.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:00:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Yeah and Obama's judgment leads him to run for president when he isn't even qualified to be president and doesn't know how the federal government works, what agencies handle what problems, he knows nothing, but his judgment leads him to just believe that he is ready.  What a lousy crock that is, and your other attacks just prove my point exactly.  EXACTLY, excuses for Bama attacks for Clinton, so you prove me right Thanks!


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Lots of baseless assertions, no facts. You actually work for her campaign, don't you?


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

This is an opinion piece, don't you get that?  There are facts just not the facts you want.  There are no  polls, or references to other material, and seeing as it's just an opinion, I don't see why that is necessary.  The facts I have included are there, fact is you need some experience to get judgment.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Why is it that if you support Clinton, you get accused of working for her campaign but these Obama supporters surely don't work for his campaign, Obama would be smarter than that right?  He'd have better judgment than to employ you guys surely?

No I don't work for her campaign, but now that you mention it...... maybe I could get a job, no, on second thought I really don't want a job, too much work.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:18:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Do you know how the government works?


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

I don't understand Obama's judgment argument. As Hillary said, he had 2002 speech, when he was not a US Senator. Where are the other judgments he demonstrated, can you please list it for me?

Is it a good judgment when "senior" people (who he choose) are working for his campaign saying unacceptable things?

Or is it a good judgment to be a friend with Rezko
(please note I am not implying that Obama did something wrong, I am only trying to find more than one (2002) judgment).


Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:49:24 PM EST

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

I'm so glad the Clinton campaign thinks candidates should be held responsible for their supporters' words:

More classiness, from one of Clinton's top surrogates, Geraldine Ferraro.
"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Forget judgement, how bout some periods and paragraphs.


by sacca28 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:03:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Are you an English professor?  do you think I care about that?  Really?  do it yourself, can you read without a tutorial?


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:07:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Suppose he were a woman, with the exact same judgment/experience, think he'd be where he is now?  Really?  What is so offensive about that statement?


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

I think a woman with his political skills and ability to persuade people to vote for her would be in the exact same place he is, actually

...and if Hillary Clinton were a man with a different name? A middling centrist with a short political resumé who had never shown significant leadership in the Senate and had no significant political achievement to point to?


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

Again with the insults, and again I say, fill yourself with whatever you chose, but that attacking her gets him absolutely no where, think I'll vote for him because you attack me? Or her?  And think that your doing so is so good for him, go right on doing it, but Obama will need all the democratic voters he can get if he is the nominee, and this is certainly no way to get them.  See ya!


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:36:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

What insult?

A middling centrist with a short political resumé who had never shown significant leadership in the Senate and had no significant political achievement to point to?

Which part of that is not true about Hillary Clinton? My biggest complaint about Hllary Clinton is that with her prominence and national platform, she never showed any leadership in the Senate. If she had put the effort and energy and ruthlessness she's showing against Obama into fighting George W Bush, I'd be a full-on Hillary supporter in this election. But from the AUMF to Kyl-Lieberman, she kept her finger in the wind and tried to gauge how every step would play with David Broder and Joe Lieberman.

I eagerly await your fact-filled illustration of how I am wrong.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judgment vs experience (none / 0)

I'd feel better about Obama's "superior judgment" if it were based on something more than a single speech he made in 2002.  And he certainly hasn't lifted a finger to stop the war since then.  He may have the wisdom of Solomon--he'll tell you so at great length--but action is not his strong suit.


by Upstate Dem on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:24:05 PM EST


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