[UPDATE 2] Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Daschle Waffles Dodd Insults

UPDATE: Obama surrogate Dodd is now pushing the meaningless 50%-50% Split

I guess he thinks people in Florida and Michigan are so stupid they won't notice that 50 minus 50 equals 0. How on earth do they propose this with a straight face. Could you be more insulting? -- see below.

UPDATE 2: Ga6thDem below has a great suggestion. If Obama wants to stall, why doesn't team Hillary just come up with all the money -- see below.

******************************************

Despite public statements by the Obama campaign that they intend to "support the DNC's rules," Obama supporter Al Sharpton is headed to Florida to prepare the groundwork for a lawsuit to deny Florida any chance of having their votes count.

Laying the groundwork for a court battle that could divide the Democratic Party, the Reverend Al Sharpton is threatening to sue the Democratic National Committee if it counts Florida's primary results in the official presidential delegates tally.

Rev. Sharpton is traveling to Florida today to compile lists of residents who skipped the January contest because they thought their votes would not count. He plans to have those residents sign affidavits saying they would be disenfranchised by the seating of the Florida delegation, in the event the Democratic Party allowed that to happen.

...

"One of the consequences will be legal trouble or lower turnout by African Americans. That's what they are threatening. I'm not saying that necessarily will happen" Mr. Sabato said. "Who knows whether legal action will occur? Who knows whether African Americans would actually take a walk -- they may end up voting Democratic anyway -- but that would be the threat."

....

During an interview with Bill O'Reilly on Fox News on Friday, Rev. Sharpton said the rules that were set by the party mean that Michigan and Florida delegates should not be seated.

"We cannot have the perception that the rules changed because of some favoritism, or because some people didn't want to see Senator Obama as the nominee, when he legitimately pulled ahead," he said.

Lawsuit Eyed by Sharpton Over Florida - Seen as Maneuvering To Aid Obama's Campaign

Democratic leaders agree that stripping Florida and Michigan from their role in the nomination will have a devastating impact on the Democratic nominee's chances in the fall, and are pressing both campaigns and the DNC to come up with a solution. The Clinton camp has agreed to revotes, while the Obama camp has not.

Late last week the New York Times reported:

David Plouffe, Mr. Obama's campaign manager, floated the idea of allocating the delegates from the two states 50-50, which would erase Mrs. Clinton's hypothetical advantage and essentially make the two states meaningless in the competitive delegate count. It would, however, allow Michigan and Florida delegates to participate in the national convention.

NYT: Democrats Try to End Impasse Over Delegates

This meaningless 50%-50% split is the only specific plan that the Obama campaign has endorsed. Everything else seems to be "unacceptable."

On Saturday there was a report on the negotiations in Michigan:

The Democratic state party chair in Michigan says the Barack Obama campaign has rejected the idea of a "firehouse primary." The proposal would have included:

Polls would be open from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., and any eligible voter who hadn't voted in the state's Jan. 15 Republican primary could participate. The voter must be a citizen who turns 18 by the November election and declares himself or herself a Democrat for the day.

On Obama's rejection:

Obama's campaign doesn't like the idea, said Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer. "That's what I've been told by his campaign, but it's not my place to inquire about motivations," said Brewer, who said he thinks a do-over primary has serious financial and logistical problems.

Obama Rejects "Firehouse Primary" In Michigan

Yesterday we learned that John Corzine and Ed Rendell are offering to raise $15M, one half of the projected cost of revotes in these states and are calling on the Obama camp to do the same.

Mr. Rendell raised the fund-raising proposal on "Meet the Press" on NBC as he pressed for re-votes in the two states. Former Senator Tom Daschle of South Dakota, speaking for the Obama campaign, also appeared on the program and said he would go along.

"We don't have any problem with that," Mr. Daschle said.

Mr. Rendell said that, in the submission to The Washington Post, he and Mr. Corzine offered to "help raise the approximately $15 million which would be half of the $30 million it would take to run those two contests."

Asked about the proposal by WNBC-TV on Sunday, Mr. Corzine said it had not been cleared with the Obama campaign. He also said the best time for new contests, were they to happen, would be after the last scheduled primaries are held in early June.

New York Times: 2 Clinton Backers Offer a Way to Stage New Primaries

And what do we get out of the Obama camp? We don't have any problem with that. What does that mean? That they are willing to come up with the cash? Like so much out of the Obama campaign lately, it is not clear what the words actually mean.

Yesterday Tom Daschel, Obama's campaign chair told NBC Sunday:

We recognize that those are two very important states," Daschle told NBC Sunday. "We want to see this resolved. We want the parties to work with the states to come up with a resolution. We'll be competitive, whatever it is. Whatever fair approach that we can employ, we're for it. We'll take it. We'll do it."

CNN interprets this as Daschle agreeing to help raise their half:

Both Rendell and Corzine back Clinton, but former Sen. Tom Daschle, Obama's campaign co-chairman, said the Obama campaign would be open to the two campaigns raising funds for new primaries.

Clinton-Obama battle heads South

Is that a correct interpretation? I'd love to discover that it is, but I have my doubts. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong. It seems to me that this is just another stalling tactic. Let's parse the words. They sound a lot like the other tepid disengenuous assurances that the Obama camp has issued. I don't see that Daschle said anything like he would be willing to raise his share. He "wants to see it resolved." Sure. "Whatever fair approach we can employ." Easy. To me this statement looks like another big nothing. I hope I am wrong, but given the Obama campaign's passion for parsing non-denial denials, empty assurances and deceptive campaign rhetoric I think anything less than an unequivocal YES, has to be regarded with a healthy dose of suspicion.

And now, given that Sharpton--Obama surrogate in all but official endorsement--is going to take his valuable time to go down and start collecting petitions to lay the groundwork for a race based lawsuit to insure Florida is not seated, it seems like we know the way this is going.

But fine, let's ask Tom Daschle what he meant. Is the Obama campaign ready to raise their $15M and agree to full fair revotes in Florida and Michigan? Let's hear it Mr. Daschle. Time is running out. Or, is that Obama's objective, to run out the clock, while spouting disingenous platitudes?

******************************************

UPDATE: Obama surrogate Dodd is now pushing the meaningless 50%-50% Split

WASHINGTON - Sen. Christopher Dodd said Monday there's a simple way to end the wrangling between Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama over Florida and Michigan delegates: divide them evenly between the two Democratic presidential candidates.

"Split up the delegations, let 'em each have 50 percent of it and move on," said Dodd. "You don't have to go back over and re-do these things."

Dodd proposes dividing Fla., Mich delegates for Obama, Clinton

That should eliminate any doubts about team Obama's prevent defense.

UPDATE 2: Ga6thDem below has a great suggestion. If Obama wants to stall, why doesn't team Hillary just come up with all the money:

Why doesn't the DNC and Hillary just raise the money for the recounts, get an agreement with Crist and Granholm and then have a revote. Obama can choose to leave his name off the ballot again if he wants. Forget about him and just move forward. He obviously wants to disenfranchise those voters. He's acting like he's going to lose anyway. Maybe leaving his name off the ballot again would be a best case scenario for him.

That's a fascinating suggestion. If Corzine and Rendell can raise $15M, they can certainly raise $30M. Heck set up a website, I'd contribute.

Can you imagine how Obama would react...

That may be the next play. Obama is so out of his league.


Poll
Stop stalling Obama?
Yes
No
Obama's not stalling

Votes: 72
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Sharpton? (2.00 / 3)

Be very careful who you associate yourself with, Sen. Obama.  Rev. Sharpton is not someone that I would want to have on my side during the GE...


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:33:04 PM EST

NJ Gov. Corzine (none / 0)

has offered to finance a new FL vote, according to the NYT.


by earthoat on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah... (2.00 / 2)

how did Sharpton get involved anyway?  Not sayin' there is anything wrong with that, but I can think of others that might be a little less controversial to have involved in what is already a touchy subject.


by JustJennifer on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:36:24 PM EST

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (2.00 / 8)

Fascinating.  He accuses her of lawsuits, but then he does the same.  

Clinton's camp should file a claim on top of his lawsuit indicating that Obama aired commercial advertisements in Florida during January's Florida primary.  Doesn't this violate his promise to DNC??


by findthesource on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:38:40 PM EST

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (2.00 / 1)

She sues to change the rules to her favor.  

He plays by the rules and prepares to sue if they are changed after the fact.

Two VERY different approaches.

Obama wasn't on the ballot in one case, and didn't get the chance to campaign in either.  It's like playing your backups in an exhibition game, only to have the NFL decide that exhibition games count, after the fact.  

If these votes had gone against Hillary, many would change their tune.    


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (none / 0)

Where did she sue?


by cmugirl90 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (none / 0)

Clinton surrogates sued in Nevada.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/us/pol itics/12nevada.html


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (none / 0)

They filed a lawsuit, but I believed it was dropped before  any action was taken.  Anyone can file a suit for $100 or so.  I see Al Sharpton actually going through with the suit.


by cmugirl90 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (none / 0)

He may...I really don't know.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the possible suit is about seating the delegates, as is, right?  

Because if he's suing to prevent another vote, I'd oppose that.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:51:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (none / 0)

I believe you are correct.


by cmugirl90 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:53:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (none / 0)

Then I don't see the problem.  Such a suit would be to uphold the rules.

I DO support a re-vote, however they're able to do it.  While I'm sure some Obama supporters would prefer to get caucuses, I think the process should be as close as possible to what it would have been.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "changing tune" (2.00 / 3)


You may find this report from the Tampa Tribune (9/30/07) interesting reading.

Obama Vows To Do What's Right
By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI

The Tampa Tribune,  Published: September 30, 2007

TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.  Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.  The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as "campaigning," and those include "holding news conferences."  Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, "I was just doing you guys a favor. ... If that's the case, then we won't do it again."

Frank Sanchez, a Tampa Obama supporter who helped organize the fundraiser, said the encounter illustrates the awkward situation the candidates have been put in by the controversy over the state's Jan. 29 presidential primary.        .................................. ..............

According to Sanchez and Tom Scarritt, Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a role in the nomination, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "do what's right by Florida voters."  The DNC has threatened to refuse to seat a Florida convention delegation because of the too-early primary, which the Florida Legislature decided on last spring.  

.............................

This is an excerpt from the article.  To read the full report, go to:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/ obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "changing tune" (none / 0)

Now that's interesting...


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "changing tune" (none / 0)

Not really...the led paragraph puts it in context. When he is the nominee he will allow the FL delegates to be seated. Everyone expects that.

Obama was obviously not talking about allowing the FL delegates help determine outcome of the primary.  


by JoeCoaster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "changing tune" (none / 0)


also from last paragraph (maybe you didn't get that far):

Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a ROLE IN THE NOMINATION, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "do what's right by Florida voters."  


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "changing tune" (2.00 / 1)

just to make sure you got my response to joecoaster's comment below about the first paragraph.

Did you get to the last paragraph?

Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a ROLE IN THE NOMINATION, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "DO WHAT'S RIGHT BY FLORIDA VOTERS."

maybe by your standards "do what's right by" means disenfranchise.

This report also points out that Sen. Obama broke the pledge by holding a news conference.  whoops.  and he broke it again later with the TV ad during superbowl.  whoops.


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (2.00 / 2)

Obama choose to take his name OFF in MI bad judgment maybe????  He had his friend Mr Conyers take out ads  on the radio in MI saying vote uncommitted. Hillary did not campaign there in anyway.  
I know Obama fans don't like to admit that he plays to win at any cost just like the rest.  By the way he was the only one to advertise in FL.
by bradydundee on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:55:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists (none / 0)

agreed and talk about insulting people's intelligence; how about pretending like Hilary didn't know ahead of time that Florida and Michigan's delegates weren't going to be seated.  She wasn't throwing a fit about it at all until she figured out that she needed them in order to try and even get close by convention time.  None of the other candidates even bothered to put their names on the ballot in Michigan.  How stupid do they think the public is?  It's transparent desperation and most folks outside of this particular echo chamber can see that.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

It's interesting that after you have been spreading lies about this issue for more than a few days, some  Clinton supporters still take your daily Obama smears for gold.


by marcotom on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:42:34 PM EST

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 4)

What lie?

Name one lie. Let's discuss it. Show me one lie.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Stalling... (2.00 / 5)

One interesting thing I'd like to point out from the voting on the poll so far is that no one yet thinks that stalling is a good strategy.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:43:40 PM EST

Re: Stalling... (none / 0)

Umppp.. not anymore... at least someone thinks running out the clock is good tactic.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Instead of Money For Lawsuits... (2.00 / 7)

...How about steering that money towards re-votes in Florida and Michigan?

The Clinton team has come to the table with $15 million cash.

Once again I ask where's the Obama team and their $15 million?


by andrewalker08 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:44:53 PM EST

Re: Instead of Money For Lawsuits... (none / 0)

The BHO campaign has always said and continues to say, let the DNC and the states work it out.

What is HRC for?
First: The votes won't count (while campaigning in Iowa and New Hampshire)
Then: Seat the delegations as they as they are (after Iowa and New Hampshire)
Then: no revotes (to USA Today)
Then: yes revotes (15 minutes after comment to USA Today)

This is a silly way to run a campaign.  And, the signal is clear; HRC should not be at the top of our government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/us/pol itics/10clinton.html?_r=2&hp&ore f=login&oref=login


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:29:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Instead of stalling with comments... (2.00 / 1)

...Such as these, why don't you pony up $50 to match my $50 towards paying for a re-vote in Florida and Michigan.


by andrewalker08 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Instead of stalling with comments... (none / 0)

Because nobody can guarantee that HRC will be for a revote fifteen minutes from now.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 2)

God I hope this is true. It will be the nail in the coffin for any chance of Obama getting the Latino vote. Go Sharpton!


by superetendar on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:48:20 PM EST

There's also a few whites in Florida (2.00 / 1)

that won't take kindly to Al Sharpton sticking his nose in their business. If this happens Obama may as well forget Florida forever.


by JimR on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NY White here, and I love Al Sharpton (none / 0)

I'd actually vote for him in a heartbeat for local office.  He's theatrical, yes, but I like that.  

I can see why it might cause problems for Obama, given Sharpton's negative public image, but Obama would get major props from me for publicly embracing Sharpton, and I'm a Clinton supporter.


by KevinCinNYC on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I love Al Sharpton (none / 0)

You must be too young to remember the Tawana Brawley disastor.  Al Sharpton was front and center in that story, one that destroyed the lives of several innocent people.  What Sharpton did was shameful and unforgivable...and I don't care how much you like him.  


by miriam on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have nothing against him. (none / 0)

I actually thought he was better than John Kerry in several debates in 2004. But I used to live in Florida and I can tell you it won't play well down there.


by JimR on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

Both Clinton and Obama have both opposed and supported revotes over the past week.  IF - after the dust settles - Obama opposes a reasonable revote  (one that allows people other than only those who voted in the last one to vote, and one that has more hours available than the proposed MI caucus from 10AM-4PM), I will speak loud and clear against the his position.  Clinton opposed Michigan caucuses last week - I don't think it means she won't support a revote, it means she wants one that is not biased towards Obama.

Yes, I'd prefer that both candidates (not surrogates) came out and made comprehensive and unequivocal statements supporting a revote if the DNC and the state parties support them, along with making clear their positions on who should specifically needs to be enfranchised in those revotes.  But neither candidate has done so.  At such time as Hillary herself says that she would support any form of revote agreed to by the state and the DNC, I'll start feeling that she has done better than Obama on this issue.


Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.
by edparrot on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:49:03 PM EST

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 5)

That's not true. The Clinton camp has definately and specifically come out in favor of revotes. They have offered to pay $15M. The Obama camp has said they are for doing something, but have not agreed to any specific proposals.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:54:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

Actually, James Carville and one or two others have come out.  Last I heard Carville had distanced himself from the Clinton campaign in terms of actve involvement.  I want to hear it from her mouth, unequivocally exactly what it is she supports and doesn't.  because she personally stated last week she opposed caucuses in Michigan.

Not too much to ask for a clear statement from BOTH candidates, and any assumptions made on the backs of "the camp" are silly at this point.  I'll assume Hillary's actual statements about the issues (contradictory as they are) are her positions until she herself tells me otherwise.  Note that I full believe that she will support a mail-in vote, as I believe Obama should - assuming proper enfranchisement of course.


Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.
by edparrot on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

Just look at Rendell's comment if you don't like James Carville. If you don't think Rendell and Corzine are talking for the campaign, you're just not paying attention.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Rules? (2.00 / 3)

The story does not say that he is readying the lawsuit to stop a revote. It says that he is preparing the lawsuit to stop the delegations from being seated. I assume that means as it now stands. I don't think it implies anything one way or another about how this would play as far as a revote is concerned.

I believe the Obama plan is to run out the clock on any revotes, and then fight that the delegations should not be seated as they now stand. The Sharpton activity would relate to the latter part effort to fight seating the delegation based on the January results.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:51:56 PM EST

Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

is doing this under orders from the Obama campaign?

Last I knew, sharpton has no role within the campaign and would thus be doing this independently, but based upon the wording in your diary you apparently have some knowledge that I don't have.

Please provide the link.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:52:05 PM EST

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 4)

I don't believe that there is any evidence that Sharpton is acting in concert with the Obama campaign.  That is just speculation, and is much like the speculation about Clinton involvement with the lawsuit in Nevada filed by the teacher's union.  There was no evidence of any direct involvement by the Clinton campaign, and the union had not endorsed Clinton, but some of the leaders of the union in question were Clinton supporters.  


by mgee on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:55:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 6)

The only evidence is that Obama has not denounced the effort. Let's ask him his position on Sharpton's activities.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 5)

I agree completely with your analogy. Bill Clinton came out and said that they had nothing to do with the lawsuit, but he supported them.

I expect that Obama will need to say something one way or another about Sharpton's activites.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 6)

Read the article. You are right that it does not specifically say he is doing this with Obama's blessing. However, that he would be doing it despite Obama's objection defies credulity.

If he is, then I'd expect Obama to come out immediately and tell him to knock it off. Silence by Obama in this case, is confirmation.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:58:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 1)

Defies credulity? Why? Because they are both black? Sharpton has done nothing in concert with the Obama campaign to this point so why would they start now.

Sharpton is a media hound...he saw a chance to get in the news and he took it.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 1)

Fine. I don't buy it for a minute, but then Obama can be expected to come out and say exactly that today, and call for Sharpton to cut it out. When he does, I'll put it in an update to this diary.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:31:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

Obama's campaign has already said this argument is between the DNC and the states.

Sharpton is fighting a battle that is already won anyway...Dean has repeatedly said that there is NO WAY that FL and MI delegates are getting seated as is.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 1)

Obama's campaign has already said this argument is between the DNC and the states.

That's called stalling. He knows nothing happens unless he agrees to it and gets behind it. It's the old... "bad rock, bring me another rock" ploy.

The battle Sharpton is fighting has not been won. As it becomes obvious that Obama is behind stopping Florida from getting a revote, there will be a renewed call to seat the delegation based on the votes of 1.7M people. This is not over by a long shot.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:51:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

renewed call (none / 0)

The only people calling to seat the delegation are the state parties, so they are off the hook for screwing up to begin with...and Hillary.

Dean has been pretty clear that he is not going to cave to pressure from either and allow them to break the rules. That would not be fair to Obama or the rest of the country and lead to chaos in the next primary.

Sorry everything does not revolve around Hillary's needs.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: people calling (2.00 / 2)

 
 The "people who are calling to seat the delegation"  are the millions of voters who want their votes to count.   they are not just calling they are screaming. people like you have no respect for the actual voters.
by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:58:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Already won my butt (none / 0)

Dean is the Party Chair, not the Party Dear Leader.  It doesn't become so just because of his say-so.

Seating of the Florida and Michigan delegations will be determined by the Credentials Committee and, if there is any controversy, a floor vote.


by Trickster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

You mean like the Clinton campaign came out immediately and called for the Nevada teachers association to end their threat of a lawsuit against Nevada?


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (2.00 / 1)

No. They came out immediately and said they had nothing to do with initiating the lawsuit, but they supported it.

I would expect Obama to similarly come out and say that he either supports Sharpton's efforts or rejects them and calls on Sharpton to cut it out. It would also be appropriate to ask Obama if the campaign had coordinated with Sharpton on this.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:00:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

Oh, ok so the Clinton camp directly supported a lawsuit that would purportedly accomplish the same thing as Sharpton's alleged lawsuit.  To in effect halt the counting of votes.

And the Clinton campaign directly threatened to file a lawsuit against the Texas democratic party that also would have accomplished the same thing as the alleged Sharpton lawsuit, to halt the counting of votes, but all of that is ok because the Clinton's admit that they don't want democratic elections to take place unless they end up with a pro Clinton result?

You really lost me on this one, First off Sharpton has NO role with the Obama campaign, just as you rightfully point out that neither did the Nev school teachers have any connection with Clinton.

So this whole thing, according to your premise, will go away if Obama says I am not associated with Sharpton but I support his lawsuit.  That is in effect what you are saying.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:15:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

No. What I am saying is that the Clintons supported the lawsuit, even if they didn't initiate it. They thought it was right.

If Obama thinks that Sharptons actions are right then he should say so. If he does support those actions then he should say whether he coordinated with Sharpton to initite them. That would be taking a position. If he does support those action then he supports the plan to challenge the seating of the delegates. That would be taking responsibily.

As it becomes clear that he is also supporting the plan to not agree to any revotes we could put 2+2 together and see clearly that his overall plan is to run out the clock on revotes and then challenge the seating of the delegates. That would be transparency, and people could make up their minds if they thought that was a good way to get the nomination.


by MediaFreeze on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:51:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

Since Sharpton is NOT a campaign surrogate or in anyway associated with the Obama campaign, he has no obligation, in fact no right to speak out on anyone elses right to file suit.

did anyone jump out and support of denounce Senator Nelson when he filed suit?  No, because it was not their place to do so.  Senator Nelson, like Sharpton is acting out of his own interests.

Are you insinuating that because Sharpton is a Black man he therefore must be associated with obama?

And BTW, your constant claims that Obama is not supporting the re-votes is patently absurd and without any credence at all.  Maybe instead of making assumptions about what you think people are saying, you might want to just listen to what they say and not try to read some nefarious conspiracy into their words.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:05:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

Sharpton is a strong supporter of Obama, and if Obama does not agree with his actions he should say so.

It has nothing to do with their ethnicity, I have been very critical of both Kerry, Daschel  and Dodd here today as well.

Finally, it is becoming quite clear, that Obama is obstructing the revotes. If he were not his campaign would be agreeing to a specific plan and helping to get it funded instead of rejecting anything except the meaningless 50-50.

But, if I am wrong, and tomorrow things move forward, I will gladly apologize.


by MediaFreeze on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:25:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could I have a link showing that Sharpton (none / 0)

Your spin is amazing.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

Dean made it clear that the ball was in the states' hands and that they had to submit a plan for the DNC to consider. Neither state has even submitted a plan, Then after that there are other steps. People act like all we have to do is throw money at the 2 states and then they just have an election. There's a lot more to it than that and it appears there isn't time to get it all done this late in the game.

I actually think they would be best off just splitting the delegates 50-50 and be done with it. I think it would come out roughly that way anyway. Many voters from both states didn't vote since they didn't think it would count so there is no way to know how it would have ended up.

I think it would be more favorable to Obama now than it was then, though, since he is now much better known. Back then there was a name recognition problem. Plus whenever Obama campaigns in a state his numbers improve. So I think 50-50 is quite fair.

by Becky G on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:02:41 PM EST

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 3)

Splitting 50-50 is absolutely insane.  The only thing I can imagine worse than not letting somebody vote is taking away their vote and giving it to somebody else.  Now, instead of the vote counting for zero, it counts for 2, EVEN IF IT IS FOR A CANDIDATE YOU DON'T APPROVE.  Really, how did this idea even start to get traction?


by dhonig on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 4)

What state are you from Becky?

How about we take your state and split the delegation 50-50? Forget about how ya'll voted.

Think that would be a popular decision in you neck of the woods?


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

What state are you from Becky?

I'd have to guess that Becky is from one of the other 48 states -- you know, the 48 states that followed the rules.


by RP McMurphy on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:52:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 1)

I didn't realize that the average person on the street Democrat in Florida and Michigan had any idea they were breaking the rules. But, in any case, it really doesn't matter does it. Let's say it goes the way you want. The Democrats stiff the Florida and Michigan delegations. They are not represented in the convention. Two months later people go to the polls and elect John McCain. We get three more conservative Supreme Court Justices and this country turns into a right wingers fondest dream. How important are your so important rules going to seem then.

Followed the rules is nothing more than a propaganda talking point right now. What Democrats need to be doing is winning the presidency.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 0)

If 50/50 is fair for the delegates, what happens about the popular vote?


Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You think it's "quite fair" (2.00 / 2)

to just assume that Obama would get 50% of the vote? Obama supporters keep saying how much better he would do now because he is better known, and that to know him is to love him. So why not assume he could get 60% of the vote? And if it's such a sure thing that he could get at least 50%, why isn't he out front calling for a re-vote and offering to help raise the money? If he really thinks that having John "reporting for doody" Kerry make the rounds of the talk shows repeating endlessly that Obama followed the rules, so those states should have no voice, he's got another think coming. If Kerry thinks that argument will fly, we might have a little better insight as to how he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in 2004.


by georgiapeach on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:32:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You think it's "quite fair" (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for bringing up surrogate Kerry. That's another stong piece of evidence for a coordinated "run out the clock" strategy by the Obama camp.

The thing that boils my blood here--and I really think IS the story--is the emerging pattern of hypocrisy by Obama. The Obama campaign repeatedly lately uses general comments that sound good, but are left deliberately open to interpretation. It is just like the garbage that we've been getting from the Bush administration for the last eight years. Whenever they say something you know there is something sneaky and wrong with it--that it is a deliberate attempt to mislead. I had enough of being continually mislead. We don't need another misleader.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

With surrogates like this.... (2.00 / 0)

Kerry's comments are almost identicle to Daschle's. Seems like they agree that they are going to do this fairly and play by the rules.

SCHIEFFER: Well,  

Senator Kerry, you are supporting Barack Obama here.  

Senator JOHN KERRY (Democrat, Massachusetts): Yes, I am.  

SCHIEFFER: What do you think ought to happen?  

Sen. KERRY: I think the rules ought to be followed. I think that obviously Barack Obama believes very strongly that delegates from those states ought to be represented at the convention. And Barack Obama believes in inclusivity, but he also believes in playing by the rules, not changing them after the fact. He played by the rules in Michigan. He even went to the lengths of taking his name off the ballot, as did every other candidate except for Hillary Clinton. And now...  

SCHIEFFER: And he--and none of the other candidates campaigned in Florida.  

Sen. KERRY: Correct. And they didn't campaign. But--well, there was a campaign under the radar screen in Florida and everybody knows that. A lot of money was spent in Florida, and  

Senator Clinton went there the night of the primary and claimed a victory.  

SCHIEFFER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.  

Sen. KERRY: So, in a  sense here, what you see is sort of two different attitudes about how American politics ought to be played. Barack Obama will play by the rules and he will do whatever the party and the states decide to do. And so...  

SCHIEFFER: So if they decide to do what  Senator Nelson's talking about, he'll do that.  

Sen. KERRY: He will play by the rules. He will play by the rules, but let me emphasize that  Senator Clinton is trying to change the rules in Michigan. She's saying, `I won't accept a caucus,' which is, frankly, up to the state, also the party, and they had a caucus there. That's exactly what was there. So she's busy gaming it, frankly, in the same way that, unfortunately, I think she's gaming this commander as chief issue. I mean, this week they were busy in the Clinton campaign floating the idea or maybe having Barack Obama be vice president in the camp--you know, in the ticket. Well, the first threshold question about a vice president is, `Are you prepared to be president? Do you pass the threshold?' So on the one hand, they're saying he's not prepared to be president. On the other hand they're saying maybe he ought to be vice president. You can't have the argument both ways. That's exactly the politics that Barack Obama is running to change. So he'll accept whatever the party and the states decide. Let's go forward, let's get this done in a way that allows Michigan and Florida to be at the convention, brings the party together, unites it, which is what his candidacy is about, and resolve this issue fairly.  

Sen. NELSON: Bob, I did not come here to talk about Clinton vs. Obama. I came here to talk about the right of people's vote in Florida to count and to count as they intended it.  

Sen. KERRY: Which we agree on.

Sen. NELSON: And that's the principle that I'm going to stand on, and that's the principle that, well before I endorsed Hillary, which was six month--six weeks ago, last summer, eight months ago, I was trying to avoid this train wreck. Now, John is trying to make this into Hillary vs. Barack. They're both good friends of mine. I have endorsed Hillary because I think she would be the better president, but the fact is that both Barack and Hillary have much invested to get this thing right, because if Michigan and Florida are not seated, it is going to be monumentally consequential. As a matter of fact, polls are showing 22 percent of independent votes in Florida are saying, in fact, that they are less likely to vote for the Democratic nominee as a result of the way the DNC is treating Florida.  

SCHIEFFER: Well, do either of you...  

Sen. KERRY: Let me...  

SCHIEFFER: Well, let me just ask you this question.  

Sen. KERRY: Yeah.  

SCHIEFFER: Do either of you think that either candidate will benefit if this winds up at the convention and has to be resolved there?  

Sen. KERRY: Oh, of course not, Absolutely not. Let me just say, Bill is my good friend, and we campaign together a lot, and he's been a great champion of trying to work this out early, and he's been correct in fighting for Florida and in fighting for this to be done in a  sensible way, and I applaud him for that. But we are in a campaign. We are trying to choose a nominee, and these approaches are relevant to this question of what--why people want change in America. You know, I think people are just tired--you know, frankly, they look at this fight, and they say, what's going on? Where are the--where's the adult leadership? You know, what's happening? And you've got a candidate, Barack Obama, who is saying, `I'll do whatever the party and the states want to do.' I think that's pretty magnanimous. I think that's called big thinking, if you will, openness.  

Sen. NELSON: Will he support a do-over?  

Sen. KERRY: He's not trying--he's not trying to squeak it. Whatever the states means whatever the states and the party decides. If there's a united--but again, rules are rules.  

SCHIEFFER: OK.  

Sen. KERRY: I mean, how can you run for president and suggest that the rules always ought to be changed in midstream, and give confidence to Americans that that's--that you're going to play by the rules when you're president.

Will Florida, Mich. Delegates Be Seated?

Face The Nation Transcript

Sheesh, with surrogates like this... kind of reminds you why Bush was elected to a second term.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well......he did seem to learn one thing (2.00 / 1)

from the 2004 election. Don't ever answer the actual question, just keep repeating the same inane phrase over and over. I guess after hearing "9-11, 9-11, terra, terra, terra" used against him so successfully, he decided to give it a shot with "play by the rules, play by the rules, rules are rules, play by the rules". Exactly how would it be against the rules for Obama to agree to a do-over that he should, by all rights, do better in than he did the first time?


by georgiapeach on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 2)

50/50 split; can you do the math?  50 divided by 50 is ZERO.

just another way of saying THE VOTES DON'T COUNT.

that's called DISENFRANCHISEMENT.

my mother is a Florida citizen; she voted; I want her vote to count.  If Dean has no respect for my mother, I will be loudly booing him in every way possible until this incompetent boob resigns -- and takes Donna Brazille with him.


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

Just a technical point.  50 divided by 50 is actually 1 and not 0.


by shalca on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:21:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 50-50 (none / 0)

  Thanks!  I meant to say 50 minus 50, but you get the point!!


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:29:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 50-50 (2.00 / 1)

Because, as we know from John King and Chuck Todd, it's all about the MATH.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama (none / 0)


by dhonig on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:10:02 PM EST

re (2.00 / 1)

Game set match!

So much for post-racial politics. Sharpton will sink the faltering Obama campaign


by rossinatl on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:21:42 PM EST

Re: re (none / 0)

Keep that wishful thinking coming...it will come in handy at the dem. convention. Sharpton is not associated with Obama's campaign AT ALL.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:46:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: re (2.00 / 1)

Sharpton is not associated with Obama's campaign AT ALL.

Then we can expect Obama to come out and tell Sharpton to knock it off....right?

You can't have it both ways. But then that is what they are trying to do time and time again isn't it?  NAFTAgate, Iraq 16 month date certain... Looks like it may be catching up with them.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:55:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

have it both ways? (none / 0)

That's really what Hillary is trying to do with FL and MI. She agreed with the primary rules before the Iowa and NH races when it would hurt her to fight it. Then she flipped before the FL and MI votes and started pandering by calling the rules unfair.  

Hillary is playing all the angles. That might be effective hardball politics but is shows a real lack of character.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: have it both ways? (none / 0)

You may find this report from the Tampa Tribune (9/30/07) interesting reading.

Obama Vows To Do What's Right
By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI

The Tampa Tribune,  Published: September 30, 2007

TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.  Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.  The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as "campaigning," and those include "holding news conferences."  Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, "I was just doing you guys a favor. ... If that's the case, then we won't do it again."

Frank Sanchez, a Tampa Obama supporter who helped organize the fundraiser, said the encounter illustrates the awkward situation the candidates have been put in by the controversy over the state's Jan. 29 presidential primary.        .................................. ..............

According to Sanchez and Tom Scarritt, Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a role in the nomination, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "do what's right by Florida voters."  The DNC has threatened to refuse to seat a Florida convention delegation because of the too-early primary, which the Florida Legislature decided on last spring.  

.............................

This is an excerpt from the article.  To read the full report, go to:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/ obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:22:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: have it both ways? (none / 0)

Nice try but the led paragraph ...

if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee,

Kind of ruins your spin attempt.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: have it both ways? (none / 0)

Did you get to the last paragraph?

Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a ROLE IN THE NOMINATION, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "DO WHAT'S RIGHT BY FLORIDA VOTERS."

maybe by your standards "do what's right by" means disenfranchise.

This report also points out that Sen. Obama broke the pledge by holding a news conference.  whoops.  and he broke it again later with the TV ad during superbowl.  whoops.


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: re (none / 0)

the faltering Obama campaign??

LOL...

1 bad day...1 bad day out of an entire primary season and they are faltering... nevermind the rebound in Wyoming...or the coming victory in Mississippi... none of that matters. They are on the ropes!! They are falling apart!!!

LOL...


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I would tend to think (2.00 / 6)

that it wouldn't go over well with black people in Fla. and Mich., either. Sen. Obama needs to make up his mind about what kind of compromise he is willing to agree to, and soon. He can't say "not fair", if he is given an equal opportunity to campaign in both states. And he doesn't have a leg to stand on in arguing for the delegates to not be seated if he is the one keeping them from a do-over. Those will probably be the options laid out for him, either re-vote or seat them as they stand. Howard Dean knows that he can't afford to completely shut out those two states. If someone had run away with the nomination, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But for Obama to demand the nomination on the pledged delegates that he says represent the will of the people, while denying voters in Fla. and Mich. a voice, would be the ultimate hypocrisy. It would cost him a lot of votes in the GE, and not just in those two states.


by georgiapeach on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:24:45 PM EST

Re: I would tend to think (none / 0)

You may find this report from the Tampa Tribune (9/30/07) interesting reading.

Obama Vows To Do What's Right
By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI

The Tampa Tribune,  Published: September 30, 2007

TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.  Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.  The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as "campaigning," and those include "holding news conferences."  Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, "I was just doing you guys a favor. ... If that's the case, then we won't do it again."

Frank Sanchez, a Tampa Obama supporter who helped organize the fundraiser, said the encounter illustrates the awkward situation the candidates have been put in by the controversy over the state's Jan. 29 presidential primary.        .................................. ..............

According to Sanchez and Tom Scarritt, Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a role in the nomination, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "do what's right by Florida voters."  The DNC has threatened to refuse to seat a Florida convention delegation because of the too-early primary, which the Florida Legislature decided on last spring.  

.............................

This is an excerpt from the article.  To read the full report, go to:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/ obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking


by moevaughn on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sounds like he wasn't intentionally (none / 0)

campaigning. He really might not have known that having a news conference was violating the pledge. But he knows that those voters are being disenfranchised, and he should "do what's right by Florida voters" by working out a compromise for a do-over.


by georgiapeach on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go for it Al. Please! (none / 0)


by JimR on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:00:09 PM EST

A big nothing from Tom Daschle? I'm shocked! (none / 0)


by JimR on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:01:43 PM EST

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 5)

It does matter what the association is or isn't between Sharpton and the Obama campaign.  It will come down to public perception.  

When Sharpton is involved in anything the general perception is "racial politics".  I'm trying to imagine how Obama can disavow this strongly enough if it works in his favor.

My recurring questions is, why is Obama not strongly  supporting a revote?  Cost is becoming a non-issue, "rules are rules" runs the risk of disenfranchising two states full of voters.  And being disinterested in the opinions of 4-5 million people seems quite undemocratic.  (I've come up with that figure because I would expect extraordinary turn-out for both "do-overs")

Anything other than a revote at this point is going to look like insider manipulation in favor of Obama, even more fuel to disenfranchise Clinton supporters and further split the party.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:13:09 PM EST

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 2)

From your fingertips to God's ears.

I think once again, Obama is playing it the wrong way. If he had come out strongly in favor of a revote, he could have gone in campaigning and looked strong. Now he is looking scared and weak. As each day passes that he tries his "prevent defense" approach to getting the nomination, it hurts hime more and more. At this rate, by the time he is forced to do something in Florida and Michigan it will be crystal clear to the voters that he tried to stiff them. Even if he gets the nomination voters in these two critical states will remember and he'll end up losing the them and the presidency.

I think this is just another big example of amateur hour in the Obama campaign. This guy and his untested team are just not ready to win a general election against the Republicans with all they can bring to bear.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 3)

exactly.  IMHO the wrong approach for him is to look in any way afraid of those revotes.  He is supposed to be the stronger candidate, correct?  And just like with the "no more debates" strategy -- if the public is still watching them and the news channels  are still willing to show them, why not participate in them?  More opportunity to show your strengths to a nationwide audience, more opportunity to get your message out there.  

And with the revotes -- the wise candidate would say "hell, yeah, bring it on!" and show confidence that they could win if given the opportunity to campaign.  Wasn't that the argument in both states -- he didn't have the chance to camapaign?  well, here's the chance...why wouldn't he want that one more opportunity to put her away once and for all?

How can it be better politically to take a "rules are rules" approach or take this all to the SD and the convention.  Michigan and Florida offer him the opportunity to seal the deal, get that power message out there, show how effective his ground game is, show how efficiently he can build the support network he needs wherever he goes!

Hell, when someone hands you the opportunity to even further prove how awesome you are, once and for all, why not take it?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

If he had come out strongly in favor of a revote, he could have gone in campaigning and looked strong. Now he is looking scared and weak. As each day passes that he tries his "prevent defense" approach to getting the nomination, it hurts hime more and more.

The only thing that looks scared and weak is the Clinton supporters attempts to change the rules in the middle of the game out of a transparently phony yet none the less obsessive concern for the poor voters of Michigan and Florida who disenfranchised themselves. The sky may be falling for these chicken-littles, but Obama doesn't need to lift a finger to help Hillary off the ground so she can attempt to knee-cap him again.


by RP McMurphy on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:59:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 1)

The issue is winning the election in the fall. If Obama stiffs Florida and Michigan it will severly disadvantage whoever becomes the Democratic nominee, even if it is him. It is bad political tactics. He may win the battle, but do so in a way that he loses the war. That's not a good plan. That's the strategic issue.


by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:34:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (2.00 / 1)

Hey, I live in Michigan and I didn't do one damn thing to disenfranchise myself.  I had nothing to say about moving the primary, I went out and voted even knowing my vote wouldn't count.

But that was back when their were more than two candidates in the race and the presumption was one of them would take the nomination during the primary season.  But now, rather than have all the voters in all fifty states decide, it has to go to the super delegates.  That's not something I can support.  Why should everyone else's vote count and not mine?

I have to say, I've never seen a bunch of supporters so cavalier about alienating voters than I have the past two months on these sites.  Ah, florida voters, Michigan voters, elderly voters, working class voters...if they can't see the Obama light in the fall, "f" em.  

wow.  Hell of a campaign strategy; way to unite the country; woo hoo for change.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 08:18:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Das (none / 0)

I am stunned, shocked and surprised that people who are not African-American would demean Al S. as Fox News would do....
oh wait..no I am not..
Remember
this has already been settled..but hey Nelson is a white guy so when he sued it was ok..
and of course he lost.
http://journals.democraticunderground.co m/madfloridian/1813

I think it is cool when folks who are not African-American feel you can chose whom African-Americans should or should not respect...

MS tomorrow...please decide whom African-Americans choice should be.


"If you want to end war and stuff, yo