MyDD :: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos

Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos

by Jacob Freeze, Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:17:58 PM EST

I've written a couple of diaries that Hillary Clinton's supporters interpreted as more unsympathetic to their candidate than they really were, and some of their comments were harsh, but Ms. Clinton's supporters never tried to shut down discussion by jamming threads with empty comments and even empty titles. DemocraticLuntz is the worst, posting " " only 36 seconds after one of my diaries was posted, no title, no comment, don't bother to read the diary, and not just for me, but also on a very halting diary by yangwenli, where JeffLieber, kismet, RumsfeldResign, Irishkorean, Hannibal, MKS, and MichaelPH also posted empty title lines or typographical doodads over empty comments.

Hannibal likes this trick so much that on the list of his comments, 14 in a row were nothing but meaningless typographical doodads, many of them clogging a reasonably substantial pro-Hillary diary by ManOverBoard.

MadAsHellMaddie and ElitistJohn also joined members of the usual crew like MichaelPh and Democratic Luntz in posting meaningless doodads on the same diary, which also illustrates another favorite tactic of Obama's thugs: abusive troll ratings. Troll ratings of a comment by the diarist, titled "I was in Iowa..." by nevadadem, mcfly, Elvis meets Nixon, Potus2020, gchaucer2, rf7777 were uprated by Dump Terry McAuliffe, PaintyKat, swissffun, bonesy, bobswern, ZhenRen. Six troll ratings, six upratings, followed by bitter name-calling... Is this an example of Obama's famous ability to heal divisions?

Or maybe by "healing divisions" Obama means the same thing as proponents of the Surge in Iraq, which Obama votes to fund every chance he gets. The Surge "healed divisions" by allowing each side to drive the other out of mixed neighborhoods, and Presto! Everybody is just alike, on one side of the wall or the other.

Obama's thugs obviously have the same sort of "cleansing" in mind, and it's working. As an Iowa caucus chairman, ZhenRen, commented (on ManOverboard's diary) about deciding not to write a diary criticizing Obama's supporters:

When I got around to thinking about a diary, I'd noticed someone else had written one about a similar incident in Iowa, and he was getting viciously attacked, called a racist, etc. He didn't do a very good job at presenting his facts, and opened himself to some hostility that possibly could have been avoided to a degree.

I haven't written many diaries, and am somewhat new to DKos (been lurking awhile longer than my ID would indicate). I decided to not put myself through the attacks that were sure to come. I was exhausted after working my butt off working for the Edwards campaign, and it was the first chance for a rest after months of work. I let it go.

One last look at ManOverboard's diary shows gchaucer2 posting an empty comment with nothing but the title "Are you frigging drunk?" This jewel received 10 upratings from Obama's supporters. What is it about "Are you frigging drunk? that encouraged mayan, Elise, Elvis meets Nixon, Rex Manning, dconrad, kubrick2008, rf7777, Libertaria, djolfs, and Into The Stars to recommend it? There's nothing in it except brute hostility!

Anyone who can stand to read through the comments of the thugs already mentioned can find any number of examples of the same concerted effort to stifle discussion on Daily Kos.

Just one more incident from one of my own diaries, which didn't mention any candidate...

A couple of days ago I came across a fantastic YouTube video of Billie Holiday and her best friend Lester Young playing sublime music with some of the greatest stars in the history of jazz. What the heck! Let's have a little beauty on DK, and leave the battle for truth and justice for another day! So I posted a little diary that was nothing but the beautiful video, with a minimal intro. One of the readers couldn't get the sound to work on DK, so I gave him a direct link, and Wham! Down comes a troll rating! For a link to a Billie Holiday video on YouTube!

This puzzled the original poster, Ohio. Thanks for the link, he or she said, and what's up with the troll rating? Is it someone you know?

It was indeed someone I knew... the irrepressible "kharma," who has troll-and hit-tagged every diary I ever wrote that was critical of Obama, sometimes dozens of times on the same diary, even after other TU's had removed the tags. It isn't enough for Obama's supporters to write "turd" as a tag on my diaries... they have to stalk me all over DK too!

I have written diaries critical of both Hillary and Obama, and been attacked by friends of both, but I have to say that none of Hillary's friends ever flooded a thread with empty comments, or followed me all over Daily Kos troll-rating links to Billie Holiday!

In my opinion, based on my experience on Daily Kos, after posting 70 diaries mostly attacking Bush/Cheney, or supporting Kucinich, Dodd, and Edwards, Obama has brought more bitter divisiveness to Daily Kos than any other candidate, and if that's the sort of "healing" we can expect from Obama as a candidate or President, it's very bad news.

So it's time for Obama either to rein in his thugs, or acknowledge that he approves of their tactics.

I sent his media office a couple of emails about this problem, with links to examples, but they didn't bother to reply.

Tags: Barack Obama (all tags)

Permalink :: 31 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on daily Kos (1.14 / 7)

troll diary.

And frankly, its not a way to be talking about a man who just might be our next nominee.

by washingtoncritic on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:21:28 PM EST

He is right (2.00 / 5)

The Obama people are very mean and aggressive. Obama talks about unity and reaching out but the supporters are the opposite of this.

I sometimes think this is a concerted move not just isolated incidents.

It is like they receive talking points and marching orders.

I tell you in this fight Hillary is the nice campaign/person.

Which can be good or bad. Because if you are too nice it is hard to win if you are fighting GOP which are aggressive bullies--just like the Obama team is.

by jasmine on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:39:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on daily Kos (2.00 / 1)

Lobbing the accusation of "troll" at anyone who offers an opinion that happens to be at odds with your own is intellectually lazy and counter to fostering legitimate discourse.

Disagree with anyone all you want, but don't lower the level of dialogue on sites like this with the throw-away junior high "troll" charge. It's lame as hell, frankly.

by dr benway on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 07:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank God for Fair and Balanced MyDD (2.00 / 3)

Well, thank god we have this forum here for the continuous fair, balanced, diplomatic, courteous and civil discourse.

For the 63 consecutive days of every recommended diary being an anti-Obama diatribe.

For 4 of 5 being about NAFTA.

For there having been 7 written about Rezko...just yesterday.

For the continued fair and balanced approach here at MyDD.

by Cobalt on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:23:23 PM EST

Great way to bring people together and.... (2.00 / 0)

try to heal.

Start by calling them THUGS !

And you wonder why people get defensive.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:26:00 PM EST

Well, Jacob, my advice is don't fight it.. (2.00 / 5)

Daily Obama has been completely and utterly taken over by Obamamania. It's useless to go there and defend Hillary. I refuse to go there and comment or post a diary until after the primary, and even then I may not. The disconnect between Obama's soaring rhetoric and the behaviour displayed by many of his supporters is extremely telling and troubling. I used to love the place. Now, not so much...

Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.

by Rumarhazzit on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:28:37 PM EST

Did you even bother to read the diary on Kos? (2.00 / 2)

Let's see:

The diary was originally entitled "irresponsible bullshit" which is in and of itself a violation of site rules (no profanity in titles).
The diarist accuses Obama of sucking up to gun owners.
Then he accuses him of appeasement.
Then he accuses his supporters of being "otherwise intelligent" people.
The diarist accuses Obama's supporters of celebrating "right-wing" reversals of federal law.
Because some rude commenters got into the diary (and please no one claim that this place is free of rude commenters), the diarist threatens to

All the harassment involving tags like "turd" will be the subject of a future diary, published everywhere and anywhere it may embarass the candidate, as long as he tacitly approves the thuggery of his supporters attempting to suppress discussion on blogs like Daily Kos. So keep it up with the name-calling, empty comments, and obscenity... You're making it easier for those of us who don't trust Mr. Obama to make our case, both on Daily Kos and in the MSM. "Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on the Blogs"... It makes an excellent headline!

Now, let's get down to brass tacks. The diarist was rude and baiting in the diary and did not bother to comment in his own diary (unless those comments got hidden by community consent).

The diarist violated Kos site rules with language in the title. The diarist ran a hit piece on a democratic candidate. No where in the diary was a "Hillary is better on point because...". Kos's site is pretty clear that simply trying to tear down a democratic candidate is a no-no. Since there was no "Candidate X is better than Obama on this point because _____." in the diary, it is a hit piece and not welcome at that place. If you go to any web site and flanut the rules, then you're going to run into trouble. Try going to redstate and posting pro Hillary stuff and see what you get. It does not fit in that site's parameters and you'd likely be banned.

Do you or this diarist think for a minute that Obama sends those rude commentrs out into the diary? Are you that stupid? (And, if you're not, then there's no insult; and if you are, well...)

Do you think that Obama is even aware of that kind of stuff?

Diarist, drop the histrionics and come off the cross. There may have been an interesting point in your diary (and I have read it and am trying to digest the ins and outs of the law), but your tenor was condescending and baiting in and of itself, so your complaints of rude treatment are kind of lame.

Guess I HR'd someone that I shouldn't have (wish I knew who/how/why, but no admin will talk to me). Have a positive thought instead.

by Robert in WV on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did you even bother to read the diary on Kos? (1.00 / 0)

Obama has come down on the side of the radical right-wing DC Court of Appeals to undermine the basis for all gun-control legislation past, present, and future.

"If the court decides there is an individual right to bear arms, it will be a huge victory for gun-rights advocates. It would reverse years of legal precedent and embolden politicians and groups such as the National Rifle Association (NRA) that have touted gun rights. It also likely would discourage new gun regulations and inspire challenges to other gun restrictions."

Menawhile Obama pretends to balance his radical right-wing opinion with a pathetic concession about the ATF sharing information.

I eventually changed the title of the diary because one of the few substantive posters asked me to, but "bullshit" was exactly the right description of Obama's deceitful and dangerous position on this issue.

Obama's apparently innocuous endorsement of "an individual right to bear arms" reverses 70 years of settled law, and if it's already so hard to pass any kind of gun control while the courts deny the individual right to bear arms, what would it be like if they affirm it?

From those who have not, everything will be taken, even the little that they have. -Matthew 13:12

by Jacob Freeze on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have no need, nor desire, to go read (2.00 / 2)

any diary on that site. I witnessed enough there myself during the past 6 months to tell me everything I need to know. I'm no fool. I know there are plenty of Hillary supporter who go too far, but what I saw on Daily Obama was miles beyond anything I see here. The diarist is absolutely correct. There is a concerted, and very childish I might add, attempt to shut down anything that doesn't fit the narrative by posting comment after comment with "nothing there." Sort of reminds me of the site itself, lately, ie., nothing there - at least that I want to see or read.

Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.

by Rumarhazzit on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 05:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More to the point, (none / 0)

did you read the diary in question over there?

Did you note the condescending attitude of the poster?

Did you note that the diarist did not bother to comment in HIS OWN diary?

The tone and language of the diary in question was baiting and condescending. The diarist was handled a bit roughly, but one gets what one gives. Speak with condescension in your voice, then do not be surprised when you're treated in the same manner.

And, I still don't get what the heck the diarist is so upset about? Obama said that there is a case to be made for the 2nd ammendment being an individual right. Since Obama has been a con law prof for a number of years, I will defer to his judgment on that issue. After expressing that opinion, Obama then said that there may be cases to be made for a state's ability/need to restrict rights given the needs of the state. FOr example, would you allow anyone to own any kind of firearm, or do you feel that there might be a reason to keep anyone from buying a submachine gun at the local hardware store?

That's kind of the crux of Obama's argument to me at least.

Did you follow any of the links in the diary? Do you realize that better than half of the senate feels that there's an individual right? and something like 250 reps feel the same way based on friend of the court briefs they've filed?

Maybe it's not the end of the world as the diarist would have you believe. Maybe this is much ado about nothing (as so much of the slam diaries on this site are about now a days).

Guess I HR'd someone that I shouldn't have (wish I knew who/how/why, but no admin will talk to me). Have a positive thought instead.

by Robert in WV on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 06:10:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on daily Kos (2.00 / 3)

As far as Obama needing to "reign in his thugs," remember that these folks are independent grassroots activists, not Obama staffers at his beck and call. 'Tis the beauty of the Netroots. Remember also that he says he doesn't read blogs - the DK "thugs" are a very small part of a national campaign. Let's try not to lose sight of the actual role of the Netroots.

But that said, as a Biden supporter, I do sypmathize with you. Especially in the early months of the campaign, you couldn't write a diary mentioning his name without half the comments screaming "BANKRUPTCY BILL!" Want to discuss Pakistan? Too bad. Bankruptcy bill. Let's chat about violence against women? No. Bankruptcy bill. Genocide in Darfur and the Balkans? Oh hell no! Bankruptcy bill! So I know where you're coming from, and it is tough, narrow-minded, and thuggish. But, I don't blame the candidates.

The Wayward Episcopalian

by Transplanted Texan on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:37:30 PM EST

Re: Obama's (2.00 / 5)

Truly there are plenty of other blogs. The posters at the Daily Obama are really turning people off to their candidate. They did it with Dean and now they'll probably do it with Obama.

Since Obama has been running on "we" he is going to have to figure out a way to deal with his out of control supporters.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:50:29 PM EST

Re: Obama's (2.00 / 3)

Whew! So true. I mean the Clinton folks here, like yourself, and Lori, SusanHu, KyleSIU, MarkL, RoseinCalif, DemLady4Life, Dem Dem, YellowDem1129...

Thank god you guys here to show everyone how to be respectful, polite, courteous, restrained, diplomatic, thoughtful, reasoned, and above all, how you all focus on the bolstering and supporting the Democratic party and our chances in November.

Thats a real service and I, for one, am glad you guys are here to point it out. Every day, over and over and over and over and over again.

by Cobalt on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's (none / 0)

Hey don't forget our bet, but this might interest you and give you a sense of where things are in the real world.

http://alexa.com/

In the top input boxes type:

dailykos.com
and
mydd.com

Then click compare. Then add:

barackobama.com
and
hillaryclinton.com
and johnmccain.com

and click compare.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 03:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (2.00 / 0)

If you feel slighted, just post here. Hillary lovers are apparently protected quite well here. There is a big gulf between Obama supporters online and Obama. Stop casting aspersions on Obama because of a few random loons.

"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."

by campaignmonitor on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 03:13:29 PM EST

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (2.00 / 0)

Me think me clever enough to use pronouns correctly, at any rate.

by EMTP democrat on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 03:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Prove it, joker (none / 0)

Really....

Make a wild accusation, prove it.

Or you could admit that you're a raging partisan and hate all things Obama and will say anything that comes to mind to discredit him.

That comment reminded me of some of Armando's more ridiculous stuff over the years.

Guess I HR'd someone that I shouldn't have (wish I knew who/how/why, but no admin will talk to me). Have a positive thought instead.

by Robert in WV on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:11:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (2.00 / 5)

Expecting civil discourse on DKos is pretty pointless. It's tiltly wildly towards the left's version of freep, and that's pretty pathetic.

Even though I'm not a Hillary supporter, I tend to hang around here more than DKos because there's actually some reasonable difference of opinion here. And it doesn't move eight million miles an hour.

But yeah, talking about "shutting someone down" is just sort of sad. If someone's libelous, point out how what they're saying is a lie, and move on.

by EvilCornbread on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 03:18:26 PM EST

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (1.00 / 1)

Why come over here and bask DKos, when this site is even more trollish and abusive in the cause of Clinton? Why not talk to people about their own faults, instead of ragging on outsiders?

Clinton supporters here are worse than Obama supporters there by any objective measure. It's to be expected; it's easier to be gracious when you're winning. But those that post on a glass blog shouldn't throw stones.

by EMTP democrat on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 03:58:31 PM EST

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (none / 0)

Errata: "Bash" not "bask."

by EMTP democrat on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 03:58:59 PM EST

Really (2.00 / 1)

Orange Republic is full of Democrats for a day

A few weeks ago, someone did a poll at both sites asking what you would do if a candidate whom you didn't support won the nomination. Far more MyDDers said they would vote for McCain.

I think that most of those people won't do so in the end, but if there's a site that is 'full of Democrats for a day', I think its obvious which one it is.

John McCain

by MILiberal on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:17:54 PM EST

Daily Kos is on its (2.00 / 3)

way down. At the head of the parade is its leader, who apparently doen't see its demise. Sad, there was a time I would have missed it, but now, not so much. And yes, it is due to the Obama bullies there, who won't rest until the place is filled with Obama clones who all speak in unison.

by Scotch on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:31:04 PM EST

Re: Daily Kos is on its (none / 0)

Alexa.com

check it out.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 05:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Daily Kos is on its (none / 0)

sorry, make that

http://www.alexa.com/

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 05:12:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Daily Kos is on its (none / 0)

Seeing some movement upwards might be impressive if you are not comparing it to anything. This has been a busy month and you would assume that people would give more activity to the sight, so the blurp in the graph doesn't tell the story. I notice that toward the end of the month the graph takes a nose dive, and that pretty much coincides with the total take over of the place by the Obamas. Why would people continue to want to go there if there is only one candidate to read a bout and the candidates supporters just repeat mostly empty cheerleading or nasty comments in regard to all other candidates. You can also notice that page views have gone down over the past 3 months. This definitely isn't the time in history when you would expect a loss.

Compare his stats with Mydd's. LOL. The rank based on traffic went up for mydd 18,457. The rank based on traffic went up 154 for Kos. The number of users went up 35 percent for mydd. The number of users went up 9 percent for Kos.

Kos is still growing but slowly but page views are going down in the busiest campaign season for many years. What is that all about?

by Scotch on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 06:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Daily Kos is on its (none / 0)

Hey, I can never fault a guy for his optimism!

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 06:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Every artist knows that the color Orange (2.00 / 2)

mutes the color Blue.

by sgary on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 05:13:19 PM EST

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (2.00 / 2)

You know, I've spent my life holding the lid down on my anger at sneery leering arrogant irrationally overconfident belching fratboys, young and old, bonding around treating women -- especially smart strong women -- as objects of derision. There they are, all over our government, the media, the corporations. And it's been one of the deep personal disappointments of this campaign to discover that the so-called progressive community has self-appointed exactly the same fraternity as its loud and every present voice.

On to the Convention Floor!

by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 05:26:10 PM EST

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (none / 0)

Interesting choice of words, "Thugs."

This is will all sort itself out Tuesday...

by Democrat in Chicago on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 05:31:50 PM EST

Re: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (none / 0)

What'll happen on Thursday? All the nasties will go back under their rocks, and it will be all sweetness and daisies? I don't think so. I think they are here to stay. Aggression only breeds aggression. Keep holding your breath, though.

by Scotch on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 06:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then Don't Bother (none / 0)

with the Daily Kos. Start your own blog and write your own opinion.

I spend very little time posting on other sites. I have my own opinion about things, sometimes unpopular with the Big Blogs, but I write my thoughts on my own blog.

by Susan Nunes on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:20:34 AM EST

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