Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Dinner BARACK OBAMA SPEECH

Please Contribute to MyDD's 2008 Fundraiser Before it Ends Monday

Jerome and I are here with Matt Stoller and a ton of our closest friends at the Virginia Democratic Party's Jefferson Jackson dinner. Hillary and Barack are here along with Tim Kaine and Mark Warner. Should be a great show. The speeches should be starting soon. Nothing's going on right now.

Watch it on UStream below.

Update [2008-2-9 22:22:23 by Todd Beeton]:Kaine is introducing Barack Obama now. The place is chanting "Obama!"

Update [2008-2-9 22:24:38 by Todd Beeton]:The balconies are chanting "We want change!" Kaine: "I had a feeling that America wanted change in 2008. I had a feeling Barack Obama would win." Now they're chanting "Yes We Can!"

Update [2008-2-9 22:27:16 by Todd Beeton]:Kaine is now announcing election results from tonight and the place is going nuts. "In case you haven't checked your Blackberries tonight..."

Update [2008-2-9 22:34:13 by Todd Beeton]:Obama: "We are tired of being disappointed by our politicians in Washington."

Update [2008-2-9 22:38:24 by Todd Beeton]:"We won Louisiana, we won Nebraska, we won Washington and I hope we'll win the Virginia primary on Tuesday!" Place goes nuts. Almost as nuts as when he says "George Bush won't be on the ballot." Interesting, so far this is very similar to his New Hampshire stump speech.

Update [2008-2-9 22:41:17 by Todd Beeton]:Talking about John McCain now. That's new. "He has made the decision to embrace the failed policies of George Bush's Washington." Ahh, he's talking about McCain's flip flop on tax cuts. "Somewhere along the way, the wheels came off the straight talk express."

Update [2008-2-9 22:41:17 by Todd Beeton]:Obama: "The Democratic Party must be about change. Not change as a slogan, not change as a bumper sticker, but change we can believe in."

Update [2008-2-9 22:56:57 by Todd Beeton]:"The Bush/McCain tax cuts." Nice.

Update [2008-2-9 22:56:57 by Todd Beeton]: "I am looking forward to having a debate with John McCain about national security."

Update [2008-2-9 22:56:57 by Todd Beeton]:Obama's supporters are interrupting him with chants of "Obama!" This is reminding me a lot of the New Hampshire Dem Party dinner. At that dinner, Clinton went before Obama; he went last after speech after speech of folks who'd endorsed him and spoke in terms of his "change" rhetoric; and then as now, Obama's speech seems to be going on too long. The crowd definitely loves Obama's applause lines, but Clinton's speech tonight was officially better.

Update [2008-2-9 20:25:48 by Todd Beeton]:The Mayor of Richmond just spoke, riled up the crowd a bit. A huge roar went up when he said "The Republicans won't take Virginia this year." Then when he said the names of the candidates, Barack Obama got a huge cheer but then Hillary seemed to get an even louder cheer. But then the mayor closed with "it would be dishonest of me if I didn't say 'I hope Barack Obama is our next president!'" and the crowd just went nuts, segueing into dueling chants between the Obama folks and Hillary folks. This place is so pumped.

Update [2008-2-9 20:47:33 by Todd Beeton]:Hillary Clinton is up. The order is Clinton, Warner, Obama.

Update [2008-2-9 21:1:12 by Todd Beeton]:"John McCain is the likely Republican nominee and Republicans have chosen 'more of the same.' President Bush has put his stamp of approval on John McCain's conservative credentials...and I'm sure that will help." The crowd loved that. Hillary spent the first section of her speech documenting the outrages of Bush, riling up the crowd. She then segued into talking about why she is the anti-Bush and the perfect foil for McCain, by addressing the Hillary haters saying "some would say they can hardly tell the difference between me and George Bush" and then naming all the ways she would be a 180 degree shift from Bush and McCain.

Update [2008-2-9 21:3:34 by Todd Beeton]:Channeling Edwards: "Leaving the country better than we found it is the cause of my life."

Update [2008-2-9 21:10:54 by Todd Beeton]:Is it just me or did she seem to really enjoy giving that speech? I rarely see her smile so much during a speech. She was channeling Barack Obama a bit as well, framing her campaign as a sort of movement to "change our hearts" so we can be proud of being Americans again.

Update [2008-2-9 21:38:38 by Todd Beeton]:Jim Moran: "Our Democratic values are more important than any of our perceived differences." That's how you advance a unity message that also projects partisan pride and frames our values as "Democratic values." I have to say, it's odd to see Obama supporters cheer when the speakers say things like "we're going to make sure Virginia is a blue state this year!" There's a lot of partisan pride in this room; how is Barack Obama going to tap into it?

Update [2008-2-9 21:47:20 by Todd Beeton]:Rep. Scott: "We can make the change we deserve, Yes we can!" Wonder who he's supporting. "In 2008, Virginia will vote Democratic for the first time since 1964!" When Scott mentioned Obama, this place went nuts. When he comes up, this is going to be a madhouse. As I wrote before, I heard that Warner was going to speak before Obama.

Update [2008-2-9 21:47:20 by Todd Beeton]:By the way, the visibility outside was pretty even between Clinton and Obama except that some folks had huge white cardboard cut outs of the letters O-B-A-M-A. Here in the stadium, out in the concession area, it's all about Hillary and Warner signs. Here in the hall, the Obama supporters are definitely more vocal and pro-active about starting chants and waves.

Update [2008-2-9 22:19:23 by Todd Beeton]:Tim Kaine: "Virginia Democrats are on a roll!"



Display:


Re: Virginia Democratic Party JJB (none / 0)

Hey Todd! Hi Matt! Hi Jerome! Thanks so much for the feed.

Has Mark Warner come out and endorsed anyone? Certainly he's still got to be in the running for the Clinton V-P slot, and as a fellow DLC honcho, I'd be surprised if he weren't standing up for Mrs. Clinton.


Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.
by TrueBlueCT on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:28:27 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

What's the order of speakers tonight?


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:36:41 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Clinton, Warner, then Obama.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Tell Governor Warner Hello.


by danIA on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

How does Clinton keep letting Obama get the final slot at these things? It only allows him to upstage her IMO...


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:48:52 PM EST

Fact is... (none / 0)

No one wants to come after an Obama speech.

No one.


Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.
by TrueBlueCT on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fact is... (none / 0)

Clinton came on after Obama at the NV J&J Dinner.


by werd2406 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Watching on tv (none / 0)

She seems really tired and has a lack of energy, at least that's how it sounds on tv. There is just no passion in this speech.


by Progressive America on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:51:38 PM EST

Re: Watching on tv (2.00 / 3)

I'd be tired too after what these candidates have been through.


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:52:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No teleprompter (none / 0)

That is why both speeches seems different.

They both were reading their speeches from paper/lectern.


by jasmine on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:55:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watching on tv (none / 0)

I got that a little but i think it's b/c the room wasn't hers and she knew it.  Also - her hair wasn't as great as it usually is--Just an aside from a Hillary lover.

That aside, her speech was substantively better than his. I was prouder to her support her as she was delivering it.


by Turnpike Kid on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:35:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

What class the mayor has. Not.


by werd2406 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:55:10 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Seriously, Jerome, how much longer is she scheduled to speak? This is painful.


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:01:45 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

"It's not me you're working for, it's you..."

Hmmm...sounds familiar?:)


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:09:18 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

Somehow, Hillary Clinton has become our last chance for universal health care this cycle, and likely for another 10+ years. How did this happen?


by OrangeFur on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:10:29 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

I don't know about y'all, but I can never hear this Tom Petty song without thinking of that girl about to get jacked up in "Silence of the Lambs."


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:11:03 PM EST

Re: No need to be rude or uninformed (none / 0)

She has been using that line for a very, very long time.

Lastr time I checked "change" has been a theme in almost every presidential election I can remember. In fact...it was Bush's big thing too. He was for change and he was a uniter not a diverder. Gee..Does THAT sound familiar?!?


by americanincanada on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:11:47 PM EST

Not so great (none / 0)

She's not going to win Virginia after that speech.

And I'm tired of her stealing lines from Edwards and Obama. She uses all of Edwards' lines.


by Progressive America on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:11:53 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Did she really just deliver a line lifted directly from Edwards? Did she credit him?


by desmoulins on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:21:23 PM EST

This Mayor of Richmond you speak of (none / 0)

happens to be Douglas Wilder. First African-American ever to be elected Governor in the US.

He's the first man ever to be elected Mayor of Richmond too because in the past it was simply a member of the city council. They recently changed that.

just fyi


by ChrisG7 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:26:56 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

The Hillary soundtrack began to smack of desperation there with that last Lenny Kravitz diddy. "Are You Gonna Go My Way?" Really? Why not just strap on an electric guitar and start cranking out "I Want You to Want Me?"


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:28:58 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

She's been using that same soundtrack since before Iowa. Jesus...uninformed AND rude.


by americanincanada on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

What, desperation has a short half-life?

Maybe she could pull Don Henley out of the audience and do an acoustic version of "Desperado?"


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Technical question - how can I forward through this stream?  Or can I?


by mlr701 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:29:08 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Will Moran hurry up and endorse Hillary already? This is awful.


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:37:00 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

actually, rumor has it he'll endorse Obama prior to Tuesday. It's common knowledge around here (VA)


by ChrisG7 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Seriously? Even after the teddy bear story? I thought he was gonna cry. I hope you're right.


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nice to see Mark Warnerq (none / 0)

Thanks Jerome.


John McCain is a Bush ally on Social Security.
by John DE on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:05:26 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

If anybody finds a YouTube clip of that bluegrass band song about Mark Warner, please post a link. That was the worst thing I've ever heard, and I have to put it on my Ipod.


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:17:47 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

By the way, even though I am not a huge U2 fan, Obama has the best theme song ever.


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:28:50 PM EST

they first used it (City of Blinding Lights)... (none / 0)

one year ago tomorrow in Springfield, IL as both entry and exit music.  It actually was lifted from an Adam Nagourney video piece about Obama early in 2007 in the NYT.  


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

From the front page post, it sounds like Kaine is suggesting that Clinton won't bring change? Is that a fair reading of it?


by OrangeFur on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:30:56 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Both candidates have U2 theme songs? When will Bono end this madness and endorse a candidate?


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:32:38 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Honestly I am not sure what Clinton's campaign song is. Obama always takes the stage to "City of Blinding Lights" by U2.


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:34:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

As far as I'm concerned, my Hillary theme song is "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For."


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:38:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

HAHAHA


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:41:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Honestly I am not sure what Clinton's campaign song is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ionFwC1UU Uw

It's "You and I" by Celine Dion, at least officially. Remember that little stunt the Clinton campaign pulled last year asking people to vote for her official campaign song? Well the people spoke.

Practically speaking though, the campaign rarely uses their official campaign song. I don't blame them--it's pretty bad.


by Korha on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:52:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great comment from Obama (none / 0)

"Senator Clinton was my friend before this campaign and we will be friends after this campaign..."

message of unity and getting behind the mule in November no matter who it is.

WELL played.


by neutron on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:39:27 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 0)

Gotta love it how Obama says "not change as a slogan," then proceeds to repeat his slogan.


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:43:06 PM EST

Wow (none / 0)

Wow, a powerful speech by Obama. He's going to run up the numbers in Virginia.


by Progressive America on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:43:25 PM EST

Re: Wow (none / 0)

I'm voting for him tomorrow in Maine, but so far his speech leaves me pretty ... eh.


by BingoL on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

He seems flat compared to some of his earlier speeches.

I don't think VA is a foregone conclusion for anyone yet.


by americanincanada on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:45:58 PM EST

Re: (none / 0)

He's stumbled a bit at the beginning, but is warming up.  I think it's the most partisan speech I've heard him give.  I like it.


by muffie on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

Wow, Obama is seriously engaging in some rhetorical jujitsu here: he's the unity candidate, and she gave  generally a unity speech (a good one)--and he's giving an almost entirely PARTISAN speech. Totally his strongest stump speech appeal to his faithful. Perhaps a smart deicision 3 days before the VA primary.


by along on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:46:19 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Another barnburner of a speech from Obama.


by animated on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:47:39 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

Never a gracious note from Obama, but rather a creeping arrogance that is going to backfire.  Each speech gets worse. More like this and a backlash will erupt.


by BklynDem on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:48:26 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Creeping arrogance? Explain?


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

Creeping arrogance-he is getting increasingly arrogant.  And, it's creeping me out.  I feel like an atheist at a tent revival.  And if I hear a Yes We Can chant  one more time, I'm going to puke.  So, yes, I'm going to invest in a good bucket....


by BklynDem on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

How does that qualify as arrogance?


by HulkamaniacUM on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:28:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

You either see it or you don't.  Lots of people see it, and clearly lots of people don't.


by BklynDem on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:31:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Hey BklynDem, why don't you chant, "No, we can't!" That seems to be the DLC theme.


by antiHyde on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Oh, please.  The DLC picked him to give the convention speech last time around, so don't even try to go there.  And of course I think we can, but it will take the kind of hard work that happens when the TV cameras go away and the klieg lights get shut off, so I don't think Obama is the candidate to get us to the promised land, contrary to his supporters portrayals and comparisons....


by BklynDem on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

this part of his speech--from the American revolution to the Abolitionists to FDR defeating Fascism to JFK to the civil rights courage--reminds me that Hillary Clinton essentially stole that entire lineup and inserted it in her speech just an hour earlier. That's not particularly gracious.


by along on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

I don't get it. Where is this creeping arrogance? There's nothing in that speech that seems particularly objectionable.


by Korha on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:54:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Hillary comes on and gives a unifying speech, focusing on the party and how it lines up against McCain.  Obama comes on and says we've won in the west and in the south and in between, and change is not a bumper sticker or a slogan, we need (my slogan) change we can believe in.  And the polls (more than half a year out, before we've begun running a general election) show me beating McCain (by a couple points more) than my opponent, so clearly you must vote for me.  His whole bearing, how he basks in the adoration of his supporters, is off-putting.  However much they love him, and clearly there's intense feeling there, he's not the messiah, and being president is about the hard choices and leadership that must be displayed after the TV cameras go away and the crowds thin out and get on with their lives.  He's an impressive speaker, and he's incredibly poised, but those skills aren't going to be very useful a few months after the inauguration.  When it's time to roll your sleeves up and do the hard work of governing, we're talking about electing a state legislator who is running against Washington.  Republicans run against Washington, not Democrats!  We need to turn the page, he says, start a new chapter.  I disagree. I like my Democratic elected officials and appreciate the hard work they've been doing, out of the spotlight, for the past decade or two.  I don't want to turn the page on them, I want to turn the loose to fix the  myriad problems we're facing.  The last time politicians ran and won on a platform like this, we got the Contract with America. And we all remember where that got us.


by BklynDem on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:43:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

way to go (2.00 / 1)

Way to misconstrue what Hillary Clinton meant. Way to engage in the same divisive attitudes that Barack Obama is preaching against.


by falcon4e on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:56:10 PM EST

Hillary's speech officially better? (none / 0)

Which official declared this? What ruling came down, and from whom?


by Bee on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:03:40 PM EST

Re: Hillary's speech officially better? (none / 0)

I officially call Barack's speech 'officially better'.

officially signed, joe


by JoeCoaster on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

After reading all the comments, it seems like mydd.com posters are more on Clinton's side than dailykos.com posters.  That's weird.


by Poochie on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:05:09 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

It's been that way for at least six months, and got worse after Edwards became unviable.


by Korha on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:56:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

Every time he repeats the lie that Hillary subscribes to the Bush/Cheney policy of not talking to leaders we don't like, he undercuts his message of representing a different kind of politics.  And he does it again and again and again.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:06:49 PM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Did she or did she not call Obama "naive" for being the first candidate to insist that the POTUS should talk to hostile foreign leaders?

Thanks for playing, sheep.


by HulkamaniacUM on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

No, she didn't.  Give me a break.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

AP, July 24th:

Barack Obama's offer to meet without precondition with leaders of renegade nations such as Cuba, North Korea and Iran touched off a war of words, with rival Hillary Rodham Clinton calling him naive and Obama linking her to President Bush's diplomacy...

"I thought that was irresponsible and frankly naive," Clinton was quoted in an interview with the Quad-City Times that was posted on the Iowa newspaper's Web site on Tuesday.


by Piuma on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:08:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

She said that it was naive to agree to immediate and unconditional talks with the leaders of some of the bad actors in the world.  That does not mean she would not engage in diplomacy with hostile countries; it just means that she may decide to require preconditions and engage the governments in question at a lesser diplomatic level before agreeing to direct talks.

When Senator Obama links Senator Clinton with Bush/Cheney, he is absolutely distorting her words.   This is not to say that EVERY politician doesn't engage in similar distortions, but he claims to be different, so his distortions are fair game.


by mgee on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:03:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Preconditions. Just like Bush.

Bush in a pants suit.


by antiHyde on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Believe me, I would never expect the guy who said David Shuster was right to offer anything less than a full-throated defense of Obama's lie.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:39:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Simply cut-and-pasted the truth against your intentional lie.  Used only my fingers, not my throat, didn't need to.  And quite typical of your recent desperation to immediately try to switch the subject to a personal attack.  You used to speak fairly and impartially, something you no longer do.  


by Piuma on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

You have completely mischaracterized her statement.


by mgee on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Its not a lie! she did call him naive for saying (none / 0)

that. she said she'd never do it.


by rapcetera on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (2.00 / 1)

Obama's not above playing politics, of course. He just makes it seem like he doesn't.

A winning combination.  


by Korha on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Yeah, but isn't it sad in a way that the two replies before yours were both like "no, no, what he said was 100% true"?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:01:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Yes. It's just factually wrong to compare Clinton's stance on diplomacy with Bush/Cheney. She is in favor of talking to Iran, Syria, etc.

Though it is true that Clinton called Obama "naive and irresponsible" for his willingness to meet with the foreign leaders of those countries. And that was definitely an attempt to attack his foreign policy chops from the right.

Hey, at least Obama's smearing her from the left this time, right?


by Korha on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:18:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

I have to give him credit for that!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:32:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She officially had a "better speech"? (none / 0)

Whaaa? Are you smoking something tonight?

Obama's speech was on a different plane, different tangent. sorry but Hillary will never be a better speaker than Barack. not gonna happen.


by rapcetera on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:20:46 PM EST

Re: She officially had a "better speech (none / 0)

Todd is supporting Hillary.  Both sides will have their bias on who gave the better speech.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:19:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)


by mgee on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:04:56 AM EST

Iran/Syria/North Korea (none / 0)

I think the statement by Obama is not technically true. But two things should be noted:

1) Clinton's Iran policy does not inspire confidence that these "preconditions" would be anything other than a pretext for a refusal to negotiate.

2) And more importantly, Obama's commitment to dialogue challenges the Bush/Cheney idea that America can have meaningful dialogue thinking they can set the terms with states due to American indispensability.

It is the neocon furtherance of the notion that the US can simply set the terms of the international scene.

3) Obama challenges that kind of foreign policy mentality with a commitment to liberal internationalism. It is a rejection of the "America First" mentality. And calling that view "irresponsible" is simply a furtherance of the conservative foreign policy talking point.

So, the statement might not be technically true, but the exchange did and does a distinct difference in foreign policy outlooks. One accept Republican and neocon framing, the other rejects. Clinton accepts the status quo framing on foreign policy issues while Obama attacks it.


by Octavian82 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 02:05:52 AM EST

Re: Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson Di (none / 0)

Wow a Hillary supporter thought she gave a better speech... I'm just shocked, shocked to find gambling here.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:18:07 AM EST


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