Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since Super Tuesday

Please Contribute to MyDD Today

So much for that 2 to 1 fundraising edge Obama supposedly had after Super Tuesday.

From The AP:

Democrat Barack Obama raised $7.2 million and rival Hillary Rodham Clinton collected $6.4 million since Super Tuesday, as he continued to resist a Clinton campaign clamoring for attention-getting debates.

The remarkable outpouring of contributions recorded since Tuesday's contests in 22 states comes on the heels of an eye-popping $32 million raised by Obama in January and the record-shattering $100 million each Obama and Clinton raised in 2007 in their neck-and-neck race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

For Clinton, this statistic is particularly important:

While not matching Obama's pace, Clinton also saw an online surge of donations from 35,000 new contributors since midnight Tuesday, Clinton campaign aides said.

With a stable of maxed out donors, expanding her donor base was crucial for Clinton.

The overall fundraising number also represents a fairly masterful management of expectations on the Clinton campaign's part. On February 6th the campaign released the surprising information that Clinton had loaned herself $5M in January, which had a dual effect: it made Clinton seem weak, which then motivated her base to pony up. And with a $3M goal for 72 hours, the bar was set rather low so that reaching that amount in 1 day instead of 3 was a sign of unexpected strength, exactly the good news Clinton needed to stem any Obama momentum.

The net result: notice that the above AP article frames the race between Clinton and Obama as "neck and neck," a sentiment echoed on the front pages of today's Wall St. Journal: "Deadlocked Democrats" and The New York Times "Close Race, Democrats Brace For The Long Haul." The reality is that Obama's performance on Tuesday was phenomenal relative to his position just weeks ago but how is it reported?

Again from the Times: "Obama Is Making Inroads, But Fervor Fell Short.

Update [2008-2-7 18:57:3 by Todd Beeton]:Oh, and remember all that talk of Clinton staffers going without pay? Turns out they offered to but never actually did. Again, display weakness so your subsequent strength is all the more surprising.

Update [2008-2-7 19:51:15 by Todd Beeton]:Keep in mind that the 6.4M was actually raised in just over a day, beginning probably late Tuesday night, to Thursday morning when Terry McCauliffe reported the following on a conference call:

Terry McAuliffe, the national chairman for the Clinton campaign, is reporting right now on a conference call with the campaign’s finance committee that the campaign has raised $7.5 million online in the first week February, with about $6.4 million of that in the last 24 or 30 hours.

Raising this kind of money online in such a short time is not supposed to be Clinton's strength. It's amusing to watch Clinton benefit from continued low expectations. Certainly her campaign knows it and is exploiting it brilliantly. Many Obama fans think that all Obama needs to do is campaign somewhere and people who like Hillary Clinton, inevitably portrayed as "low information voters," will come around. It's just this condescending and naive view of Clinton's support around the country that is hurting Obama in the expectations game. As I've written many times (most recently HERE,) Obama supporters underestimate the love out there for Hillary Clinton at their peril.



Display:


one thing I learned in the past six months (2.00 / 2)

is that there is a lot of grass-roots support for Hillary. Not among the usual progressive activist types, but she has hard-core support in the base of the Democratic Party that goes beyond name recognition.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 06:52:52 PM EST

Re: one thing I learned in the past six months (2.00 / 1)

Exactly. It annoys me to no end to hear the implication from Obama supporters that she's been coasting on name recognition of low-information voters. (As if nobody in Florida could have heard of Obama other than through TV commercials.)

Hillary Clinton has broad and deep support within the Democratic Party. We may not be as collectively wealthy as the Obama supporters, but we're pretty dedicated too.


by OrangeFur on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:28:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: one thing I learned in the past six months (2.00 / 1)

"WE" can what? Turn out for a rally? Send donations? How does that affect who serves for president? (By the way, if you think it will affect the Republicans, forget it. How did Gingrich characterize the large anti-war demonstrations? He said in SF that's a cheap date.)

One of the most telling comments from the debate is when Hillary reminded people there is only one commander-in-chief. That may not seem very fair or egalitarian but it's reality.

That's why many of us chose her for her 35 years of experience. Unlike Obama she has extensive work experience in both the private and public sector. (Yes she sat on the board of Wal-Mart but Michelle Obama sat on the board of a company whose biggest customer was Wal-Mart.) She has help enact legislation on local, state, and federal level. She has worked across the aisle with Republicans to enact major pieces of legislation for foster care and children's health. She has traveled to over 82 countries on diplomatic missions.

In the last few weeks, Obama has also revealed some character flaws that are troubling. Notably his seeming inability to handle criticism. Now it's his refusal to engage in more one to one debates. For all his campaign's hype, he's not really the front-runner so avoiding it is a dodge.  


by cath on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: one thing I learned in the past six months (none / 0)

WE can change our country. Our communities, our neighbors, our representatives.

There is only one President (who is Commander-in-Chief of the MILITARY forces, I refuse to use the Bush framing that's the president is commander-in-chief of us all).

Hillary doesn't want my help. She wants my vote, to get her into power so she can arrange my life as she thinks would benefit everyone.

Obama wants my vote, so he can get into power to make a country where I have the power to arrange my life and those around me.

Glad you admitted that HRC is still the front runner!


by MNPundit on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:03:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: one thing I learned in the past six months (none / 0)

People like me.


by dpANDREWS on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 4)

I found someone willing to match my donations to Hillary dollar-for-dollar.

Unfortunately, it was my wife.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 06:54:03 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

That's sweet.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:02:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Good she is following Obama's lead, fundraising that is.


by tracey webb on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:13:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Good job for both of them.

As a side note. Chances are McCain is going to secure the 1,191 delegates to be nominated. If he names a VP, and the Democrats are still in a deadlock, I think we need to seriously start deliberations and maybe strike a deal between the two candidates.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 06:55:10 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

McCain's got it.  I don't know where we go from here.  Mathematically, neither candidate can achieve the nomination with pledged delegates between they're "trading" and "sharing" victories, to wit New York/Illinois; and Missouri.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 06:59:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

Howard Dean is right that we certainly can't run an 8-week general election campaign.

However, I don't think we have to panic the moment McCain locks it up.  We have a very high-profile race on the Dem side and McCain is likely to get covered on page A20 for the duration.  He may be out there campaigning, but let's face it, he's not Barack Obama on the stump.  He's not even Bob Dole on the stump.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

I don't know...

If they agree to be civil and (at least privately)each promises to name the other as their running mate, a drawn out battle into the convention would be riveting theater and probably guarantee victory in November.


by DaveOinSF on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

Here's a great post from HuffPo that explains some of the nuts-and-bolts practical reasons why it would be really bad to not have a nominee before the convention.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

That is a terrific link.  The kind of "inside baseball" most of us never think of.

Also, it mentions that the Nevada delegates are not "real" delegates - they can change before the convention. I remember hearing that right after the Nevada caucuses, too.  How likely is it that they will change?  Are the Nevada delegates being counted in the various delegate totals?


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:48:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

If McCain names his VP and we don't have a nominee, I want a Clinton/Obama ticket, orchestrated by the campaigns and DNC. They could make it happen. I don't think we will be at a disadvantage if don't have a nominee You're right, our candidates will get the coverage and as long as they stay in good behavior, it reflects good on our Party. But, we are all desperate to win the White House.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:12:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Sure, but if the focus is on him then he loses out - at least if there's a nominee on our side willingly to smack him about a bit with a wet trout.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Oh lord, get over it.  The country wants someone to get us out of Iraq.  


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:03:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Instead of living in the past... (none / 0)

...Let's look to the future and bring an end to the war in Iraq.


by andrewalker08 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 2)

I'm sure the obama folks will say "no big deal" to Clinton's haul even though they were shitting themselves last night when OBAMA raised that amount.


by werd2406 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 06:57:18 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

Seems to me you have some issues to deal with unrelated to this campaign. You might want to button that up before posting on a public blog.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

We say no big deal because we will do it again on Monday. How about you? Think you can raise another 6 mil on Monday?


by aiko on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

I'll be happy to give Hillary the PR advantage for now but when all the votes are counted Obama will win the nomination.

I remember a few months she was vey high in the polls and she was going to blow Obama out on Feb. 5th. Well, that didn't happen and her campaign is going broke now. What's more, she wants more debates? A lil free media can't hurt when it's that bad


"Apparently they have an 11-month calendar over there that's missing the month of February," Obama strategist David Axelrod
by Jr1886 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 06:58:01 PM EST

If being broke means raising $6.4 million... (2.00 / 2)

...In three days, then I want to be broke too.


by andrewalker08 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:05:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If being broke means raising $6.4 million... (2.00 / 1)

hahahahha


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 2)

when all the votes are counted Obama will win the nomination.

Actually, I think you are going to need to change that talking point, is there any doubt that Clinton will lead in the popular vote from all the votes?


by Jerome Armstrong on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:38:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 2)

Although I have been active in politics for over forty years and contribute handsomely locally, I never contributed to a national campaign before.
I did this morning for HRC - because she is the best remaining candidate and I am sick and tired of the sanctimonious OB-ocrats and their substance-challenged change mantra.
And I will do it again later if the need arises!
by w4856228 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:00:13 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

"substance-challenged"

love it.

Hi, my name is Barack, and I'm substance-challenged.

GROUP: Hi, Barack.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:05:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

For the first time we have not one, but TWO candidates that charge up the entire party and we, because are democrats, look a gift horse in the mouth and begin again with the in-fighting.  

How about a narrative where in 48 hours we have nearly matched half of McCain's fundraising for the ENTIRE campaign?


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

My thoughts as well.  It doesn't do any good to insult the other candidate or his/her supporters; feelings on the losing side will be hard enough without that, and no responsible voter would want to wake up after the election and hear "President-Elect McCain".


by beerwulf on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Is a brilliant tactician.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:00:37 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 1)

I believe, in the depths of my soul, Hillary clinton will be our nominee and our next president. I doubt I am the only one with such beliefs.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:06:38 PM EST

Display your weakness? (2.00 / 1)

More like "play your base for rubes". So lets see there's a desperate plea for money, Clinton puts in $5 mil of her own money, the Clinton camp indicates top staff are going without pay, sympathy and the outpouring follow and money comes in hand over fist, but wait then reports come out the campaign is doing just fine, oh and by the way no staffer ever went unpaid. Sorry folks but you've just been had. Welcome to the world of Clinton politics.


by dwightkschrute on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:07:31 PM EST

Media and Obama rubes (2.00 / 2)

More like playing the media and Obama for rubes. We had another one of those Clinton will quit race diaries yesterday, comedy gold. You would think after three or four times you guys wouldn't go for the bait, but she gets you every time. Clinton supporters know better than to trust what the media says about Democrats.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Media and Obama rubes (none / 0)

Clinton knows that the only media coverage she will get is when they have a juicy negative narrative to beat into the ground. So, she gave them one and let the media hatchet men do her fund raising for her.

You would think the media would figure it out one of these days. The more they attack the Clintons, the more people go to bat for Bill and Hillary. But, I guess that kind of putting 2 and 2 together is beyond the pack of frat boys and their sorority babes in the media.


by hwc on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Display your weakness? (none / 0)

Let's see, if giving money to your candidate means you're a rube, then the Obama supporters must be even bigger rubes.  Since they gave more money and all.


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:31:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LAAAAME (none / 0)

So it comes down to lying to make money for a struggling campaign?


"I don't want to wake up [to] one of those cable talk shows, and see that Washington is still stuck in the same food fight it's been in for over a decade."
by obama is ready on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:10:22 PM EST

Re: Learn to read (2.00 / 3)

Nobody was "had". Can you not read? I know it's hard sometimes to actually seek out the facts but you should at least try.

Clinton's staff offered to go without pay. The contributions that came in assured that it did not have to happen. NO ONE in the Clinton camp ever said people were already going without pay. That was just MSM and desperate Obamabot spin.

Hillary never send out a plea to small donors before in the campaign. She has now and we are responding.

Rise Hillary, Rise.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:10:31 PM EST

Re: Learn to read (none / 0)

Yeah, reading is fundamental...

"Clinton's campaign staff have voluntarily chosen to work without pay this month, a source within the campaign told NBC News."

Members of Senator Hillary Clinton's senior campaign staff have agreed to work without pay for the month of February.  Communications Director Howard Wolfson called the move "a show of solidarity with Hillary Clinton".- ABC News

Clinton's campaign also disclosed that several senior staff members, including her campaign manager, were voluntarily working without pay. - Chicago Tribune

Some senior staffers on her campaign also are voluntarily forgoing paychecks as the campaign heads into the next round of contests. Clinton said the loan and salary deferrals were not a sign of financial difficulties. - Yahoo news


by dwightkschrute on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Learn to read (2.00 / 2)

Here are some rules for the critical media consumer:

don't take paraphrases at face value.

don't trust anonymous sources.

check the full context of a quote.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:52:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

Most people I know who don't keep up with politics but gladly donated said they had no idea Hillary needed money.  All she had to do is ask.  If Clinton campaign expands this effort they can easily surpass Obama's internet efforts because I believe this is first time Hillary has done a major internet fund raising push.  Obama has been doing it for a while.

45000+ new donars in 24 hours on internet Wow!!


by Opandora on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:10:32 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

I agree. She needs to keep asking for money. Don't expect to just get it. Keep the e-mails going and the call for money.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M (none / 0)

It may well be that Hillary can continue to come close to matching Obama on fundraising, although that would be incredible given the strength he showed last month.  Still, maybe she'll match or even outraise him somehow going forward.  But one burst of great fundraising doesn't tell the whole story, and one extraordinary week by no means proves whether Hillary will match Obama going forward, fall behind 2 or 3 to 1, or beat him in fundraising.

If you want to read tea leaves, though, think of this.  Hillary's campaign pulled some creative maneuvers to set up this fundraising effort.  They made public that staffers were going without pay (when they had only "offered" to do so), disclosed the loan, etc.  All of this made the campaign seem to be on the verge of bankruptcy.
While Hillary's "the-campaign-is-bankrupt" ploy was in full progress, Obama outraised her day for day, hour for hour, and in total, just with a simple appeal to beat the $5 million that the Clintons had loaned.

Now, imagine this fundraising scenario:  Given how much he's raised and how fast, how much do you think Obama could generate in 24 hours, 3 days, or a week if his campaign played the "desperation/bankruptcy" card?  Given past history, I bet they could raise $15 million in 3 days under those circumstances.  That would be the true point of comparison with what Hillary's just done.  Fortunately for us Obama folks though, I expect we'll never have to test that theory.....

:-)


by Bluebeard on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:11:51 PM EST

Serious question (none / 0)

First, full discolsure:  I'm semi-undecided, but lean to Obama.  With that out of the way, I admit that I'm startled by the responses to this fundraising tactic here.  Honestly, this doesn't bring hardcore Clinton supporters up short?  When your candidate just out-and-out lies to get you to donate, your response is just kind of a laughing, "Oh, you got us on that one!"?  You don't feel jerked around, even a little bit?    

I think Hillary would make a fine president.  But this is the kind of thing that brings me up short about her qualities as a candidate.    Telling your donors you're out of money when you're doing fine?  I dunno.  If Obama pulls that, he's sure as hell not getting my cash.  And the folks chest-beating here had better watch out for a backlash from other donors.    


by sharks201 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:14:24 PM EST

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 1)

Um, I don't see the lie.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 1)

What lie?

The Clinton campaign never said people were currently going without pay.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

Why split hairs like that.  It is way too reminiscent of "I never had sex with that woman."  What is really bothering me about this(and would bother me equally if Obama did it) is the defense of a sleazy political move by the candidate's supporters.  Why not just say, it was a poor decision to manipulate like this, I still like the candidate, but this was bad judgment.  

Look, Hillary has so many good things going for her, the need to go to sleaze happens in her campaign too often and unnecessarily.  I'm not sure why.


by mady on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

THANK YOU (none / 0)

That is why I never trust HRC. Everything she says/does is with the understanding that it's presumptively OK so long as it is in her personal interest. There probably were people donating money they really couldn't afford to part with b/c they are so supportive of HRC. And now we hear that it was just a ruse.

Chalk it up to the usual Clintonian tricks.


by highgrade on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THANK YOU (none / 0)

All this concern trolling on behalf of Hillary's poor, manipulated supporters is such a joke.  No one has said "it was just a ruse."  No one has shown that they weren't strapped for cash before this $7 million influx came in.

If you let slip that you're out of money as a way to get money to come in, that doesn't change the fact that you were out of money.  I'd like you to find me one Clinton supporter who feels "manipulated" or "lied to" at this juncture.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THANK YOU (none / 0)

I hope you were not referring to my post as trolling.  Take a look at what I've posted before before you accuse, please.


by mady on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:18:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THANK YOU (none / 0)

I was responding to the post that I responded to.

In regards to your post, I do not think there was anything sleazy in the slightest, nor do I feel manipulated in the slightest.  The campaign let it be known they needed money, and I gave money.  Why would you possibly think that's something which needs to be "defended"?  What horrible, horrible lie do you think was told?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THANK YOU (none / 0)

The lie, the implication that people would be working without pay.  Actually what bothers me is not so much lying but a candidate's supporters rationalizing all over the map when a simple, yeah it was wrong, maybe it had to be done but it wasn't a good thing, would suffice and be a much more reasonable way to address this.


by mady on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:51:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THANK YOU (none / 0)

Obviously the offer to work without pay was unnecessary once $6 million in donations showed up.  I don't feel lied to in any way, shape, or form.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:45:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THANK YOU (none / 0)

And I do, which I suppose is why we support different candidates.

Mady


by mady on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:57:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 1)

I think this is how Clinton will be when the chips are down as president: pulling the ace of the hat right on time.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

If you leak that your staffers are going unpaid to NBC News, the Politico, and ABC news, you're lying.  When the nets say they've "confirmed" that someone is going without pay, that means it was confirmed from within the campaign.    

And if you don't see that as a lie--well, you just don't mind being lied to.  

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2008/02/clinton-senior.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23037431/


by sharks201 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 1)

Some people agreed to go without pay for February.

Now that $6 million came in, they don't have to go without pay.

It's not that complicated, nor is it a lie.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:27:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

It's a matter of honesty.  She's teared up twice on the campaign trail and the last 24 hours worth of "woe is me" looks fake.  We don't need another dishonest president - whether it's "I did not have sex with that woman" or "Iraq has WMD's"    


by ruskin on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 1)

Hooray, another "Hillary pretended to cry" commenter.  You guys are priceless.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

who you calling a guy?


by ruskin on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 1)

Even 20 years ago when I was in high school, people accepted that "you guys" is a gender-neutral term.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Be honest with yourself (none / 0)

Hillary never tears up in public ever, until the day before the two biggest elections of her life; and you see no coincidence there?

I also agree with other commentators that the big difference between Obama and Hillary in this little fund-raising spat is that Obama didn't have to manipulate anyone into thinking he was broke to get cash.  He just asked for it with everyone KNOWING that he was already ahead on money.  And he got it.  

It's illustrative of the difference between Obama and Hillary all around, really.  You guys have no problem with her manipulating you, the same way that you have no problem with her smearing Obama or lying about his statements or with Bill making racial comments.

I would be afraid of Obama if I were you too, so I understand why the reaction is so strong.  He's trying to get rid of YOUR mentality, not just win the presidency for the Dems.


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:25:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Be honest with yourself (2.00 / 2)

I'm not afraid of Obama, but I find you a little bit scary, to be honest.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Be honest with yourself (none / 0)

You're going to have to do a lot better then cute one-liners to convince me of that.  


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

Riiiiiiight. So all of a sudden, the candidate running on the platform of being strong enough to take the lumps and rise above is now the candidate who shows her feelings yet bravely fights on?

PLEASE. She's playing off a sexist stereotype, too. Imagine if Obama or Edwards had cried like she did. Would you be defending them?


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:35:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 2)

She didn't even cry, for God's sake.  No, of course I wouldn't be accusing any other candidate of "crying on purpose."  It's a symptom of how some people are willing to accuse Hillary of literally everything.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

Right, she just choked up a little... at a televised campaign event.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:46:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

Believe me, I don't want you to stop thinking that Hillary cried on purpose.  In fact, I want you to keep saying it as loudly and as often as you can.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:48:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

Fair enough. And you guys keep talking about what a shrewd manipulator she is.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

I'm sorry, that was far too adversarial, and I'm being extremely rude. I apologize to you, and I'll back off.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 2)

Imagine if Obama or Edwards had cried like she did. Would you be defending them?

Hell, yes.  This isn't 1972 or 1984.  People can show they are human in public without being considered weak.  Clinton and Bush have both teared up in public, and no one thought ill of them for it.


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

But in response to feeling like you might lose? I know that all men and women cry, but I can't feel sorry for that. Maybe if she hadn't been planning her move for 7 years, I'd have more sympathy.

And even if the first one WAS genuinely choking up, the second one was political. If only because she saw a bump and figured it'd be worth another shot to let herself go. Again, playing directly to people's instincts about gender roles. How far back do you think it'll take feminism if the first female president cries whenever she doesn't get her way?


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

I didn't read it as crying because she might lose. She teared up a little, because she really cares.

And I don't see anything nefarious in the fact that she got a little emotional right before the election...twice.  The closer to the election, the more frantic the pace.  She was probably exhausted.    People are more vulnerable when they're exhausted.


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:01:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

When Barack Obama said in the debate that he did not have a lobbyist working for his campaign, was that a lie? Perhaps you could explain how your high standards of truth and moral outrage work.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:50:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (2.00 / 0)

I wouldn't call it a lie, just a really brilliant display of politicking.  I for one applaud.  They did an amazing job of playing the MSM for suckers and right into their hands.  And you know what, more power to them.  They got to play the punching bag for years and now they get to turn the whole thing around.

This was a very smart, calculated move based solely on knowing the way the media works inside and out.  I think the only thing that probably didn't go as planned was the Obama check-raise on the fundraising side.  But good for both of them, you will never see McCain raise anywhere near that much in an entire week.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious question (none / 0)

Candidates don't write a $5 million check to their campaign for shits and giggles.

Hillary needed to increase her grassroots fundraising fast. She communicated the need (using the pack of media hyenas hatred for her, knowing they would shout a negative story far and wide). Clinton's very committed supporters responded.

I got an e-mail from my college daughter last night: "Dad, Hillary's in trouble. She needs our help. I just donated. Have you?"


by hwc on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And your point is? (none / 0)

Nope...you will just have to worry about losing the nomination outright.

What is the point of this "mine is bigger than yours" argument? To prove that you are all twelve years old and fighting an icky girl on the playground? To pove you mostly think of this as some silly student council election that means nothing?

Contrary to what the "kids" may think...this is not a game. It is not a contest to see who can do it faster or to raise money just to show a tit-for-tat mentality.

The is a campaign and the most important election in possibly our nation's history. Too bad most of the "bots" can't see that and take it for the serious business it is.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:18:38 PM EST

Ombama counter GONE (none / 0)

Yesterday they had a counter on how much they were raising. Today when HRC caught up perhaps passed them on internet donation they took it down!


by bayareasg on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:26:43 PM EST

Re: Ombama counter GONE (none / 0)

Or it was a 24 hour fundraising effort and the 24 hours is up.  Now you are just sounding like a Rontard.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Something else about that AP article: it mentions in the lead paragraph that Obama is avoiding debates.


by OrangeFur on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:31:31 PM EST

getting pimped? (none / 0)

David Shuster just tried to claim that the Clintons were "pimping" out Chelsea. Wow. I mean, WOW.

I think this whole MSNBC/Clinton thing is about to come to a head.


by chopsui on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:32:54 PM EST

Re: getting pimped? (none / 0)

Oh man.  You do NOT mess with Chelsea.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Or what? (none / 0)

Jeez, you guys are too much, really.


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Or what? (none / 0)

I already sent a complaint email to MSNBC.  They want to sound like Don Imus, they're going to hear from people.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:50:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: getting pimped? (none / 0)

The media started doing hit pieces on Chelsea late last week. I think the NY Times was first, attacking her because she wouldn't hold press conferences on the press plane.

I figured that the pack of hyenas would follow with fangs bared in short order.

"Pimping". More visciously sexist language from the ol' boys club.


by hwc on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

getting pimped? (none / 0)

David Shuster just tried to claim that the Clintons were "pimping" out Chelsea. Wow. I mean, WOW.

I think this whole MSNBC/Clinton thing is about to come to a head.


by chopsui on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:33:12 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

More parsing by Hillary -  Didn't say they weren't getting paid -  they only "offered" to not get paid. Nevermind that the result was the same either way - people manipulated into thinking the Clintons really needed money bad. Get used to it Clintonites - you want 8 years of that kind of parsing???


by CB Todd on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:33:35 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Yes.  I much prefer it to the Bush administration's tin ear.  Hopefully, they'll do enough parsing to avoid coming up with embarrasments like Infinite Justice, Enduring Freedom, Homeland Security, and "crusades" against terrorism.


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

don't trust the media (2.00 / 2)

I know this is hard for Obama supporters to grasp, but the media is not your friend. You can't take what they say at face value. Anyone who listened to what Senator Clinton said, rather than what some idiot reporter heard from an anonymous source, understood that she was playing the media. As with Novak's "let's you and him fight" a few months ago you guys always fall for media tricks, Clinton supporters don't.

That is why we think Obama would have a harder time in the general, he has not shown any ability to handle an adverse press environment, and his supporters appear to believe whatever the TV says.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:45:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't trust the media (none / 0)

So - the media comes out with story after story about how HRC's campaign is running out of cash, Obama is out-fundraising her 2 or 3 to 1, her staff is going unpaid, etc.  You acknowledge that this may have been false information.

The next day, HRC supporters raise $5 million, an unprecedented one day boost for her campaign.  

So how can you claim that it's OBAMA supporters who are "believing whatever the TV says?"

Seems to me that it's the HRC supporters who "fell for it".


by goodnbad on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:20:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't trust the media (none / 0)

Hillary and her campaign made it publicly clear that they were behind Obama in the money race, and asked for help. Clinton supporters stepped up, Obama and the media went into hysterics.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't trust the media (none / 0)

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

First, you're chiding Obama supporters for "falling for" the "HRC is strapped for cash" media story and implying that they are naive for trusting the media.

After I point out that the result of that media story was a donations boom by HRC supporters - and therefore pointing out that HRC supporters "fell for" the media story too, you now say that HRC meant it all along, and therefore the media had it RIGHT?

Which is it?


by goodnbad on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:06:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't trust the media (none / 0)

Ain't I just like a Democrat? All nuancy? 'Fraid I can't translate it into straight talk for you, try reading it again, maybe it will come to you. Careful with your subjects and objects, though, you seem to confused them.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't trust the media (none / 0)

Frankly, no, there is no nuance.

Fact:  
Media reports on a story concerning how some within the campaign are working for free.

Your opinion:
BHO supporters who believed the story are rubes who believe whatever the TV says.
HRC supporters who believed the story and start donating are - are...what, exactly?  Media savvy?

Finally, your quote:  
"Anyone who listened to what Senator Clinton said, rather than what some idiot reporter heard from an anonymous source, understood that she was playing the media."

Playing the media to what end?  If your answer is "to generate campaign money"  then all I have to say is - "Who really got played?"


by goodnbad on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:56:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't trust the media (none / 0)

She used the media to get her message out, as she always does. Her supporters got the message and donated money.

Now, the media, typically, tried to spin the story as "Clinton out of money, staff skipping salaries, how can she compete?" The Obama camp bought the campaign in trouble spin and started speculating about how long she could stay in ("bury her"). Clinton supporters responded the way they responded in NH, NV, CA, NJ, MA, by showing the media and Obama exactly how she competes.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Or maybe Drudge and the sheep MSM that followed his headline from yesterday just...oh I don't know....GOT IT WRONG.


by chopsui on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:37:07 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

The Clintons knew they would play it that way and I think that is the point. It shows experience and wisdom. If the media wants to run with the "Clinton is broke" meme then that is not to be blaimed on the campaign. This show os understanding ofo the media is a good contrast to Obama's over creation of expectations. To be balanced though Barack is also working the media fairly well (Considering heis getting all of the good press)


by Wiseprince on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:15:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Yeah. Experience and wisdom in doing exactly the kind of spin and manipulation that the country has lived with for eight years. I don't want my leaders doing that anymore. She's running a dirty campaign, and I hate that more than I can express in text.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

To win the game you've got to play the game. This is why it MAY prove difficult to change the system without knowing the system. Who kknows. Personally I don't think anything will change no matter who's elected.


by Wiseprince on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Agreed. Change is incremental.  It's the nature of our political system.  We don't have a parliamentary system like many European countries do, that can turn on a dime.  We're built for stability, not speed.

I'm also a little uneasy about what will happen when that becomes obvious to everyone.  That's the problem with a cult of personality.  If the idol turns out to have feet of clay - or be no different from any other politician - what happens to his support?  


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:11:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Obama camp has been brilliant on several fronts but they have played the expectation game poorly.  They have been almost arrogant on this fundraising front.  Now that Obama has raised so much money if he has a poor week or month it will not look good.  

Also the expectations that Obama will do very well in the races in Feb.  Imagine he doesn't do well and loses few and wins by small margins in many think how that will play out.


by Opandora on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:37:49 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Obama took the counter down - because the point has been made repeatedly and currently - We can match you and raise you dollar for dollar. But this is not ALL about money so let's not get into a side show.
Same with debates. We've had 18 debates. There will be another before 3/4  - this is positioning and trying to get the newcycle off how wonderfully Obama did on Super Tuesday and will do over the next three weeks.

He will not win them all, but he will win many and more than she will. The stage is set for Ohio and Texas. If he doesn't win one of those - he may keep up in the delegate count - it will look like he can't win any of the really big states. If he does win one - I think she's done.


by CB Todd on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:40:33 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Opandora - Hillary is viable now and she will remain viable until OHIO and Texas no matter how well she does or how poorly. They are her firewall. And Obama can only beat her there by organizing the GOTV there, advertising there and campaigning there.

I don't think what happens between now and then will have much affect except is he loses a majority of the primaries. People see them as even now - provided they are roughly even going in nothing changes that perception except what he does on the ground there.


by CB Todd on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:46:56 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

This seems about right... If Obama loses a bunch of primaries he's favored in, or Hillary loses OH or TX, those would be major blows to their respective campaigns.  Assuming Obama does well in MOST of the February events, the winning OH or TX would be a bigger blow to Hillary than Obama losing a smaller Feb state.


by leshrac55 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:52:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ridiculous (none / 0)

Obama could easily win 8/9 or even all 9 of the primaries that are coming up in February.  You think it won't matter that Clinton would have been a month without a win if that happened?  Or that Obama now would have won 24 or 25 states out of 50 by that point?

If you believe that, Rudy Giuliani has a bridge he's interested in selling ya :)


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

Who has more votes so far? Hillary or Obama? I think it is Hillary.


by thetis on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

Obama does, actually.

See, FL and MI don't count - Dem's de rules this year.


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

No, currently the votes don't give any delegates.  But the voters who cast those votes are real.   It takes a case of severe retrocranial inversion to think otherwise.


by InigoMontoya on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

Actually, five of the contests are caucuses.  Obama's ground game should be favored in them.  

But to your central point, if you think people in Ohio and Texas are going go gasp and think Obama is an inexorable inevitability and roll over, think again.


by InigoMontoya on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

You should contact Giuliani about that bridge too, man.

Of course, Obama isn't just going to be sitting on his thumbs the whole time.  He has had precinct offices in TX and OH for some time and just opened up a few new ones.  He has structural advantages in TX as well (1/3 of the votes are caucus votes!) and will have a lot of momentum and money going into the race.

Don't count your chickens in TX yet...


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:25:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

If you think Clinton is comparable to Giuliani at this point, from a strategic standpoint, you're nuts.


by InigoMontoya on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:32:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

If you think that losing 7 or 8 out of the next nine states isn't going to drop your numbers, then yes, you are going with the Giuliani plan.  Not a smart move.


by Cycloptichorn on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:04:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ridiculous (none / 0)

Except that this isn't the beginning of the campaign, Hillary has her own legions of enthusiastic supporters (contrary to the wishful thinking of some Obama supporters), is more than half way to securing the nomination, and has an impressive string of victories in states like California, Massachusetts, Florida (yeah, the votes count even if the delegates currently don't), New Jersey, Arizona, Michigan...other than that, your analogy is perfect.  


by InigoMontoya on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:22:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

The more important numbers are the following poll numbers:

Time:
Clinton - 46%
McCain - 46%

Obama - 48%
McCain - 41%

Rasmussen:
Clinton - 44%
McCain - 46%

Obama - 46%
McCain - 43%

Hopefully soon enough voters in the Democratic party realize they don't have to vote for Hillary to win the White House, in fact, that'll hurt the party's chances.

If only early voting weren't allowed on Super Tuesday.  Obama would have likely done better in California and other states.


by RussTC3 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:48:27 PM EST

Hillary Did Well in CA with Non-Write-Ins (2.00 / 1)

Your theory about mail-in votes does not hold up.

There were reports of upwards of 12-18% undecideds in CA right before the election. She and Obama split the ones deciding within 3 days leading up to the election. She won by 5% the ones deciding the last day.

He just lost CA, period.


by cath on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

Regarding polls that say Obama will do better than Hillary against McCain in the general election. I think Obama supporters are being either naive or disingenuous when they cite such polls as evidence that Obama should be the nominee. Were they willing to let polls showing Hillary as way ahead months ago determine who would be nominee in August? For that matter, are they willing to let the last two day's Gallup Polls that show Hillary leading Obama nationally right now decide the issue? Polls track tendencies and are highly variable. Campaigning changes the poll numbers. The question is, who will be the better campaigner? I was reluctant to support Hillary at first but at this point I do not see how Obama can beat a united Republican party. McCain is also appealing to voters in the big dem states that Hillary is winning. And McCain can't be hurt by playing the race card the way Obama adroitly used the MSM and naive net supporters to hurt the Clintons in South Carolina.


by thetis on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Only a fool would rely upon those numbers as a basis to support Obama.   For the most part, Obama and Clinton have been playing nice and Obama has been scarcely scratched.

The Republicans will attack whomever the Democratic nominee is with Swiftboat force.  Obama is a blank slate to a lot of voters once you can beyond "hope" and "change."  The Republicans will do their damnedest to define him the way they defined Kerry and he's really really weak on the "Commander in-Chief" and "National Defense" part of things...neighborhood organizing in Chicago doesn't give you much experience on that sort of thing.  And, even where he could have made a mark, he's been lazy to the point of invisibility on the Senate Foreign Relations committee.

Those numbers will change.   And I think Hillary can take McCain.


by InigoMontoya on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Very much agreed.  Kerry was chosen because he was "electable"...and the GOP attacked him on his strongest point, his war experience, and turned it into a liability.  

They haven't even started on Obama yet - the media or the GOP jackals.  It's silly to think poll numbers today will hold up in November.  


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Clinton has always fared poorly in head-to-head match ups against the Republican nominees, because the Republican party can very easily mobilize their forces against her.

Obama will be much tougher.  I don't support Obama because of the polls though, that was just something I thought I'd show.

I feel Obama is the better candidate between the two, both on issues and in terms of moving the country forward.


by RussTC3 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 02:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 0)

It does some like Clinton pulled off a masterful ploy here, essentially advertising to anyone that would listen how cash-strapped they were: $5 million loan, staffers going without pay... Her campaign must be in trouble!  So, they got a ton of people to pony up to basically "save" the campaign.

Nothing wrong with it even if it does seem a bit manipulative (that's politics for you), but I'll be interested to see how much she's able to keep up with Obama throughout the rest of the month.  Either way, it now appears they'll both have plenty of money to compete effectively, and obviously money isn't going to determine this race (as Romney has just found out on the Republican side).


by leshrac55 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:49:16 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7. (none / 0)

If this winds up in a brokered convention, then fine, I'll go for an ObamaClinton ticket. I do notice a lot of silence from the Clinton fans here about where they'll be in a few weeks.


by mecarr on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:54:05 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7. (none / 0)

Nono, it's gotta be Clinton/Obama. Otherwise, it would no longer unite the party.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

ummm, I would like to point out that the money did not stop rolling in when the counter was taken down.  

It was at 7.6 when it stopped. (that is 1.2 million more dollars than Hillary's)

Then MoveOn added another $350,000

I guarantee that Obama's post-super Tuesday is moving close to or passed 9 million.

It would also be interesting to know how much pre-5th February money he raised.

Obama has 650,000 donors and only 3 % of them are maxed out.


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:56:29 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

I've heard his February goal is $50 million.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:03:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

ummm, I would like to point out that the money did not stop rolling in when the counter was taken down.  

It was at 7.6 when it stopped. (that is 1.2 million more dollars than Hillary's)

Then MoveOn added another $350,000

I guarantee that Obama's post-super Tuesday is moving close to or passed 9 million.

It would also be interesting to know how much pre-5th February money he raised.

Obama has 650,000 donors and only 3 % of them are maxed out.


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:57:14 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2esday (none / 0)

I like how the clinton team is actually adopting Rudy's campaign plan, which is take a lot of losses in February and just hang on in Texas & Ohio..


by mecarr on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:59:13 PM EST

There's a slight difference (2.00 / 1)

We're deeper into the primary season and Hillary has several major victories behind her - NH, NV, MA, NJ, CA - compared to Rudy's fifth and sixth-place showings behind Ron Paul. And she's actually visiting and advertising in the Feb. 9 and beyond states, not parking herself and her whole campaign in TX & OH.

Other than that, the comparison is perfect.


by Shawn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:36:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary has a problem (none / 0)

Right now, Clinton is only putting up token resistance in the rest of the February states except VA.  Obama has been up for a week, and Clinton is only just now starting to advertise, and is completely skipping NE (where the Clinton's never did well).  Her best demographic, Latinos, will be pretty much out of the way after TX (except for PR), and with the Republican primary pretty much over, she now has to worry about crossover Republicans in OH going for Obama.  Add to this that her cash is gone, or at least was gone (if it wasn't, she wouldn't have "lent" the campaign $5,000,000), and the fact that Obama continues to out-raise her, she could end up losing this thing.  At best, it looks like she will need to rip the Democratic Party in half to win the nomination.


by tlsmith on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:17:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, she isn't completely skipping NE (none / 0)

At least in advertising. She has an ad up featuring Bob Kerrey. I also highly doubt they're going to skip Wisconsin.


by Shawn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary has a problem (none / 0)

Sorry to disillusion you, but Hillary is in fact fighting for Wisconsin.  A colleague's daughter, who is Hillary field worker, was dispatched there yesterday.

Hillary is also campaigning in Washington state.  My favorite sister in-law's best friend was called by the campaign and asked to speak at their caucus.   Hillary may have overlooked the non-Iowa caucus states early but she's making a stand now and even if she loses, she should keep the delegate race close.   And in turn, pick up substantial numbers in the OH/TX/PA trifecta.

I also understand there's substantial ground action in Maine but I haven't confirmed that with a direct source.


by InigoMontoya on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Obama's donors equal a striking 9 percent of his Super Tuesday turnout.


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:00:34 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

whoops MoveOn has raised 360,000 with donations still coming in


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:06:05 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

If Clinton raised 1.1 million online before Feb 5, I wonder what BHO raised?  2? 2.5?

Not to mention the traditional sources of political money, that I am sure are rolling in now.


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:08:28 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Try a million a day.  Obama's campaign was on track to make another 30 million dollars in Feb. as well, BEFORE we dropped a 7.2 million dollar bomb on him yesterday.

Look for his fundraising to keep up(ahead) and for hers to fall off some in the next few days.  Especially after he wins on Saturday and Tuesday.


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:36:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is the money clinton raised (none / 0)

really gonna be used to pay back her loan as this link suggests? that would be depressing to me had i given her some $$. i would want my donation to go toward her campaign not in her pocket. can't she wait to pay back her loan or maybe never even pay it back?
by supsupsup on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:21:40 PM EST

Re: Is the money clinton raised (2.00 / 2)

That's not a campaign statement. Nor is Hillary that stupid.

The money she lent herself is spent. This money that she raised will get spent rapidly as shown by the new commercials she is airing.

As for those complaining about the Clinton's so-called manipulation. Fundraisers do it all the time. Look at the Obama campaign which sought to capitalize on her apparent weak attempt to raise $3m in 3 days. Supporters were urging folks to donate money so they could "bury" Hillary.

If anything, it shows me how Hillary once again makes the best out a bad situation. That's what I want to see in a candidate and a president.


by cath on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

318,000 people have given to Obama's campaign, this year alone!


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:30:35 PM EST

Re: OMG...who cares how much he raised? (1.00 / 1)

Is it just me or do these Obamabot posts just sound like a bunch of kids selling candy bars for band uniforms and bragging rights?


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:59:56 PM EST

That's putting it rather mildly... (1.00 / 1)

but HRC supporters are supposed to be the "classy" ones. I'll try and refrain from going any further. ;-)  (I call them Obamaniacs--it fits perfectly with the "Animaniacs" cartoon theme my little son always watches.)


Clintonism is the kind of Government I could get used to...
by Mariel on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:02:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OMG...who cares how much he raised? (none / 0)

318,000 people have given to Obama's campaign, this year alone!  650,000 total!

Not to mention the traditional sources of political money, that I am sure are rolling in now.

MoveOn has raised $360,000 with donations still coming in.

Separately Obama raised 7.6 by 12pm with more rolling in , most likely he is close to 9 million or 10 million by 9pm

and most likely 2-3 million  online already in Febuary before the 5th

damn right I am bragging.  Don't you wish you could do the same?


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Listen, Hillary-Haters, our girl ducked a big (none / 0)

punch and came out with a cross blow that landed pretty hard and square on by the reaction of the folks on the blogs and on the msm airwaves. Funny how the mention of online fundraising has gone suddenly quiet--or a lot more hushed now that Hillary's one-upped the critics and haters once again.

Go Hillary Go--the strongest woman alive!!


Clintonism is the kind of Government I could get used to...
by Mariel on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:59:56 PM EST

Re: Listen, Hillary-Haters, our girl ducked a big (none / 0)

Your girl ducked a big punch?

hmmmm, do you understand how inevitable she was?

They were so confident that they would have this thing sewn up by now that they were actually raising money for the General Election last year!

Clinton has 20 million dollars in the bank she cant touch.

Now she is behind in pledged delegates behind in money . . . and losing it all to a freshman senator who came from absolutely nowhere!!!

Super Tuesday was their real firewall, and it burnt.

Do you get it!?!  This is the Clintons!!!, their machine is huge, they have the most experienced political operatives in the business AND they have been laying the ground work for this election for at least 8 years, and poof up in smoke!

also please take note of by previous posts about online fundraising.


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:09:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Listen, Hillary-Haters, our girl ducked a big (none / 0)

It's the mentality of her supporters.  She's ALWAYS the under-dog and the person who is being unfairly attacked.  Always.

If there's any division of the Dem party which is being exposed here, it's that some Dems are professional victims...


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just to say it again (none / 0)

318,000 people have given to Obama's campaign, this year alone!  650,000 total!

Not to mention the traditional sources of political money, that I am sure are rolling in now.

MoveOn has raised $360,000 with donations still coming in.

Separately Obama raised 7.6 by 12pm with more rolling in , most likely he is close to 9 million or 10 million by 9pm

and most likely 2-3 million  online already in Febuary before the 5th

damn right I am bragging.  Don't you wish you could do the same?


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:18:13 PM EST

Re: Just to say it again (none / 0)

How many times are you going to post the same comment?


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

UPDATE:

According to CBS News, Hillary has now raised 7.5 million online since Tuesday!

That is almost at par with the 8 plus million (?) that Obama, Kerry, and MoveOn raised during the same period.

Go Hillary!


by 1986dude on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:40:34 PM EST

Clinton Raises $$ (none / 0)

Hillary had an enormous warchest going back well over a year.  What happened to all that money?  I have serious reservations about the management skills of somebody who can fritter away a fortune, only to find out that now she's dead even with an upstart candidate who is raising money in small bits online?  If she can't bury Obama with the incredible structural advantages that she enjoyed at the start of primary season, why should we believe that she would make an effective President?


by global yokel on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:42:49 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

I think that there is dynamic with HRC that seems to go unnoticed: the more people attack her, the more I want to defend her. For the longest time I thought it was just me, but the voting and donations patterns make me think that this is true for quite a lot of us.

To be clear, when I say when people attack her, I'm not talking about people questioning her policy positions or the way she's voted in the Senate -- I'm talking about personal attacks that are about her. I'm not sure what it is, and it applies to Bill as well, but I suspect it has something to do with the way the two of them have been attacked and villified their entire public lives, and how clearly so much of the vitriol sent their way was/is completely unfounded.

Whatever it is, when people attack her for the person she is, e.g., her "cackle", her character -- she's cold, she's calculating, she cried on command and for the cameras, whatever it is, when it's personal, I find myself rallying to her defense.

I think that her opponents and the media ignore that dynamic at their peril. Obama's "You're likeable enough, Hillary" is another example -- implying that her supporters are stupid, ignorant or dupes is just an extension of this and helps to shore up her support.

I have plenty of disagreements w/ HRC on issues etc., but when someone makes a comment like she's "pimping" out her daughter, boy oh boy, it makes my blood boil, causes me to defend her, and helps to make the decision to support her much, much easier.


Bitch is the New Black
by Iphie on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:46:31 PM EST

Clinton Raises $6.4M Since Super Tuesday (none / 0)

It's just this condescending and naive view of Clinton's support around the country that is hurting Obama in the expectations game. As I've written many times (most recently HERE,) Obama supporters underestimate the love out there for Hillary Clinton at their peril.

It's driven by the media narrative. Everytime the media starts dancing on her grave (pre-NH, pre-SuperTuesday), they just piss off Hillary's silent, but rock-solid supporters.

The American people aren't stupid. They can see that the media is attempting to put the fix in. Many of Clinton's female supporters view it as fundamentally rooted in ol' boys club sexism.


by hwc on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 09:57:17 PM EST

Its Funny (none / 0)

When losing the money battle by 2 million or so is considered keeping pace with Obama . . .I suppose when you have been beaten so bad anything is improvement.

Expect the Obama camp to go quite on the money front and the release a big shocking number that blows HRC away.


by RuralD on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:24:36 PM EST

Re: Its Funny (none / 0)

I find it very sad that you think fundraising skills qualify Obama as the best candidate.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its Funny (1.50 / 2)

It's the American Idol mentality, only with dollars instead of text messages.


by randym77 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

All the money raised is great, and Obama seems to have the momentum, but there is something much larger afoot!

Here in Minnesota, Obama won over 70% of the vote in our county with a Democratic turnout that was more than 6 times what it had ever been before. (We ran out of sign-in sheets and ballots and had to run to a copy shop to print more!)

Obama also took 67% of the Minnesota vote, which also had record turn-out

The old-timers at the Feb. 5th caucus last night all said they'd never seen anything like it!

Obama has initiated a great movement leading to renewed and increased interest and involvement in the Democratic party!

If Obama wins the nomination, this movement can translate into a wonderful victory for Democrats and progressives who desire to see progressive values energetically supported in Washington.

Hillary Clinton, for all of her good points, is showing that she mainly does well only among the traditionally Democratic strongholds.

In contrast, Obama has shown that he can bring out lots of new voters and win in the areas that Republicans normally win.

I fear that a Clinton nomination would only serve to unite, motivate and energize Republicans with the greatest of passion to see her defeated (they really hate the Clintons). Obama does not create the same animosity.

Also, a Clinton nomination would be extrememely discouraging and could serve to alienate the many millions of people who have embraced Obama's campaign. It is highly unlikely that those same people who so enthusiastically turned out on Tuesday for Obama would even bother to vote in the general election. I've heard several say as much.

Obama, if the nominee, would bring with him the millions of new and energized voters his campaign has inspired, as well as their great fund-raising potential, something that a Clinton nomination would negate.

I expect Obama to do real well in the remaining February contests in Louisiana, Nebraska, Maine, the District of Columbia, Maryland, Virginia, Hawaii, Washington state, and Wisconsin. He could  potentially win all 9 states, giving him victories in 24 states, compared to Hillary's 11 (excluding Michigan and Florida, which were not contested and whose delegates were forfeited due to rules violations)!

As far as I'm concerned, nominating the Democrat who can bring along the millions of new Democrats his campaign has generated (a vital point that can help us win in the general election) - should be our top priority!

GO OBAMA!


by keenekarl on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:45:17 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

The fact that Latinos comprised an unprecedented 29% of the turnout in California did not just happen by accident.

Hillary is bringing a great many new voters into the process, just like Obama is.  That's one reason many people are hoping to put them both on the ticket.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Uh, you mean:

Hillary raised 7.5M since Feb 1.

Obama raised more than 7.5M (himself) + $x M from MoveOn.org, since Feb 5.

Why does a supposedly "progressive" blog support a machine candidate, rather than the grassroots candidate?


by hrcisthemachine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:48:05 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (2.00 / 1)

Good question, I really don't understand what has happened to DailyObama. Once upon the time it was the place for Democrats.


by souvarine on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:27:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M (none / 0)

Raising large amounts of money in a short time over the internet is nice, but it is not the be-all and end-all of campaigning.

If it were, Ron Paul would be ahead of McCain.


by interguru on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:53:36 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

re the Minnesota caucuses and Obama's popularity, I have two words for you.  Jesse Ventura.  

re Hillary and her fundraising, what I find the most interesting (and of course no media whore or obama fan boy/girl ever mentions it) is Hillary's supporters are not the rich liberals with all the extras benjamins Obama's supporters are.  we're lucky to make rent.  like Maxine Waters says, this country has plenty of hope,  what we need is some help.  when we Hillary supporters dig deep, it means something.  Viva Hillary!

hey Obama children, who do you think was president in the 90's and created the environment of peace and prosperity where you were fed and clothed and drove around in SUVs and had a college fund saved up for you?  Bill Clinton.  So stop dissing the big dog you bunch of ingrates!  and stop watching the cable news because it's a pack of lies.


by joker on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:28:20 PM EST

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

Hillary's supporters are not the rich liberals with all the extras benjamins Obama's supporters are.

Really? Then how have so many of them managed to max out? People who are just scraping by don't donate $2,300. (And a lot of those have then maxed out again to donate to her for the general, even though she can't spend that money yet -- not sure what happens to it if she doesn't get the nomination.)


DC Drinking LiberallyDC for Democracy

by KCinDC on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:08:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Raises $7.2M, Clinton Raises $6.4M Since (none / 0)

"Obama supporters underestimate the love out there for Hillary Clinton at their peril"

Yes, and Hillary supporters who would prefer Obama to McCain underestimate the dislike out there for Hillary in the general population at their peril too.


by cat on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:32:52 AM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.