Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endorsed Him?

Yesterday, John McCain appeared with John Hagee, a high-powered evangelical pastor from Texas, to accept his endorsement.

Sen. John McCain picked up the support of Texas pastor John Hagee, an evangelical Christian who has made support for the state of Israel a centerpiece of his ministry.

Hagee endorsed McCain today, saying he did so because McCain is a pro-life, pro-Israel politician who has pledged to secure the country's borders.

"John McCain is a man of principle," Hagee, a televangelist and the pastor of Cornerstone Church, told reporters. "He does not stand boldly on both sides of any issue."

Sounds harmless enough, doesn't he? Erik Kleefield enlightens us as to the true extremism of Hagee's beliefs.

Some readers might remember Hagee from this video put out last year by Max Blumenthal, from Hagee's Christians United For Israel conference. During the event, Hagee proclaimed that the United States must consider a preemptive strike on Iran, and also said that Jews had been responsible for their persecution throughout history because of a failure to properly accept God. [...]

In 2006, Hagee laid out his views on eschatology in a book called Jerusalem Countdown, in which he claimed that sources had told him a year earlier about world events to come -- and amazingly enough, all those predictions had come true over the past year. Next on the agenda, according to his March 2006 interview in Human Events: Israel would go to war with Iran before May 2006. And from there, Hagee eagerly anticipated an all-out world war against Iran and Russia, followed by the Second Coming.

Sounds about as extreme and divisive as Louis Farrakhan, whose endorsement Barack Obama was compelled to denounce yet here John McCain is free to appear on stage with Hagee to accept his endorsement. As dday says:

If we had a press that applied the same rules to John McCain that it has to Democrats as of late... [...]

We'd have constant questions asking McCain to renounce or reject or oppose or renouncereject or just say no to the support of John Hagee, a Biblical end-timer who believes that God caused Hurricane Katrina for its gay pride parades, that Muslims are programmed to kill nonbelievers, and that we must hasten the Rapture by invading every country in the Middle East. McCain should be asked about every single one of those statements and whether he explicitly supports them. I mean, I know Hagee's not black, but you'd think his rhetoric of hate would be held to the same standard as Louis Farrakhan.

In the strange bedfellows department, this is a sentiment shared by none other than Catholic League's Bill Donohue (h/t TPM).

"There are plenty of staunch evangelical leaders who are pro-Israel, but are not anti-Catholic. John Hagee is not one of them. Indeed, for the past few decades, he has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church. For example, he likes calling it `The Great Whore,' an `apostate church,' the `anti-Christ,' and a `false cult system.' To hear the bigot in his own words, click here. Note: he isn't talking about the Buddhists.

"In Hagee's latest book, Jerusalem Countdown, he calls Hitler a Catholic who murdered Jews while the Catholic Church did nothing. `The sell-out of Catholicism to Hitler began not with the people but with the Vatican itself,' he writes. [...]

"Senator Obama has repudiated the endorsement of Louis Farrakhan, another bigot. McCain should follow suit and retract his embrace of Hagee."

At this point, having appeared with the guy, even if McCain is asked to renounce Hagee you know he won't. But this episode does point to the difficult tightrope McCain has to walk between sending signals to the right to assure them he's one of them and not alienating independents who are suspicious of the right, especially the religious variety. Luckily for McCain, it's a balancing act that's made easier by the extraordinary continued kid gloves with which the media handles him and the double standard they have for Democrats and Republicans. I'd love to see Barack Obama call John McCain out on this, maybe then the media will cover it.

Update [2008-2-28 21:54:26 by Todd Beeton]:Jane Hamsher makes a great point:

I have noticed that the passion that fueled the virulent hatred against Hillary Clinton in comments across the blogosphere just does not transfer to John McCain. Those who were the most vociferous about accusing her of racism, of running a "Southern Strategy," of gaming the system, of conducting a scurrilous smear-driven campaign, who would argue until the death that she must be defeated lest she continue the war forever, just do not get that worked up about John McCain appearing on stage with religious wack-job racists or threatening to bomb Iran and stay in Iraq for 100 years. Every word uttered by the Clinton campaign would propel a hundred outraged "did you see this?" emails into my inbox. John McCain? Not so much.



Display:


Is McCain going to denounce and reject (none / 0)

Hagee's anti-Catholic beliefs?


by puma on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:06:27 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Answer: no.


by Cycloptichorn on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:33:19 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor (none / 0)

No, it is, but it will be interesting if during a presidential debate, he is questioned on this endorsement. It brings up some interesting associations.

Published on Thursday, March 15, 2007 by the Inter Press Service
Iran: The Religious Right's New Bugbear
by Bill Berkowitz

Last Sunday, Pastor John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel, received a rousing reception at the opening dinner plenary of the annual American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) conference.Hagee warned the crowd that "Iran poses a nuclear threat to the state of Israel that promises nothing less than a nuclear Holocaust." Hagee claimed that the situation is like 1938, only "Iran is Germany and [President Mahmoud] Ahmedinejad is the new Hitler."Hagee added: "We must stop Iran's nuclear threat and stop it now and stand boldly [with] Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East."A few weeks earlier, Hagee had met with Senator John McCain, a leading contender for the Republican Party's 2008 presidential nomination. Hagee has been leading the charge of conservative Christian evangelicals urging President George W. Bush to deal more forcefully with Iran. "Hagee's appearance at AIPAC indicates the growing organizational strength of the Christian Zionist lobby for apocalyptic war and the rise of corresponding Jewish factions both within AIPAC and within Israeli politics that are pushing for dramatically expanded war in the Mideast," Bruce Wilson, the co-founder of Talk To Action, a website specializing on religion and politics, told IPS.

Wasn't it also McCain who guaranteed that there will be more wars? And isn't Iran the next logical target?

The associations that come with this endorsement are obvious: McCain, Hagee and the Christian Zionists, and AIPAC and Israel's right wing Likud party, which espouses annexation of Judea and Samaria (West Bank). Both Netanyahu (leader of Likud) and Joe Lieberman, both Likud hawks, have given speeches before Christians United for Israel conventions. AIPAC has leaned toward Likud for the past few decades, and has associations with other right wing Zionist (pro-Likud) organizations in the US like Zionist Organization of America and American Jewish Committee.

Interestingly, Obama's focus is distinctly and openly anti-Likud.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Simple Answers to Simple Questions (none / 0)

No.
Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 09:11:59 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Sorry, we're too busy tearing down our own candidates.  No time to talk about McCain.


by Skaje on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 09:38:36 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Unfortunately very accurate -- in an amazing year, when the Democratic party nominee will either be a Black man or a woman, we're busy playing politics as usual and trashing each other. And doing the McCain campaign's work for him.

JLA


by JLA on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor (none / 0)

You gotta be kidding?  Endorsements like that are political plums for republicans...gotta pacify the religious right.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:07:58 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce (none / 0)

Kind of reminds me of McClurkin.


by arkansasdemocrat on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:23:43 PM EST

I think the reason people don't get as mad (none / 0)

about McCain, be it fair or not (I personally think it isn't fair), is just because people are more used to Republicans doing it. I mean, seriously, Sen. Lott, the Republican Leader in the Senate, openly endorsed Segregation as recently as 2002. I think people just get more upset when one of our own does what we perceive to be like this. We have seen conservatives be racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. so much, we just are desensitized to it, and when they are accused of such, we just add it up to the other billion times its happened.


by JewishJake on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:28:35 PM EST

Re: I think the reason people don't get as mad (none / 0)

Jake... you sound like a product of our worthless public education system.  Really, it's comments like yours that give left-wing blogging a bad name.  The  broad brush painting you've spewed against Republicans is juvenile and ignorant.  You seem oblivious to the fact that whether you like it or not, there are millions of conservatives/republicans in this country.  You don't have to agree with them.  You can debate them and shoot down their ideas.  But this type of elitist propaganda is what will cause the blogging to have less and less influence in the public domain.
I'm a conservative and myself and none of my friends are as you describe us.  Maybe you just need to take the blinders off and get out there into the real world and meet some people.  I'd be happy to debate you on this an any number of issues but you would have to bring your A-Game.

by KensUSA on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:39:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Perpective is everything (none / 0)

Ken, I really hear what you're saying. But from where we're sitting, every Republican candidate who gets any traction seems to pander to the scarier elements of our society.

I mean, the McCain S. Carolina battle flag thing is just so emblematic of a big chunk of the Republican part. Then you throw in the neocon imperialists, and the science denying fundamentalists, and... well, you've got to admit. It's easy to draw a negative stereotype from all that.

by PhilFR on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:24:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perpective is everything (none / 0)

Well I've been to the local anti-war protests in my community and I believe that the Democratic candidates are pandering to them.  These rallies contain a collection of the weirdest groups on the planet, with signs and costumes that appear to me to be psychotic in nature.  I wouldn't transpose this image to the bulk of Democrats though.

I don't think you really know what a neocon imperialist is.  This seems like just a code word on the left that has no meaning other then "Republicans want to take over the world with their corporate buddies".


by KensUSA on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:12:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think the reason people don't get as mad (none / 0)


Just for curiosity:  what makes you "conservative"?  I mean, what makes you call yourself conservative?  What is it you believe in that makes you not-liberal?

-- TP


by Rethymniotis on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:01:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think the reason people don't get as mad (none / 0)

Well I appreciate you asking that question.  It's actually very surprising that you would be interested because I've found the exact opposite on blogs.  
Because I am a recovering Liberal, I often attempted to engage people on blogs in a debate over core beliefs and ideology thinking that I might be able to make them reconsider their world view.  But this proved to be futile.  And I don't mean that in a negative way because when it comes down to it, most people can't change their core beliefs and I shouldn't have been so naive to think they would.

Rather then bore you with my story of transition from liberal to conservative, lets just say that I believe that most people live their lives as conservatives even though they don't know it.  I suspect many people on this blog would relate conservatism to racist/homophobic/imperialist/war monger/out for the rich... etc.  I could shoot down all those arguments and depictions but whats the point.

I just think at a high level, liberals have some kind of blinders on that does not allow them to see the realities of human nature and how that human nature impacts all forms of our lives, especially capitalism and individual responsibility. My mother (who I love dearly) is a liberal but just by default.  She does not follow politics but just thinks that Democrats will do a better job of protecting and caring for the disadvantaged.  This is a heart-felt belief that she has so I would never try to change her mind.  But at it's core, it's a simplistic "feelings" based position.

There are a million other reasons I am a conservative and countless examples of why I love this country so much (even if Obama or Clinton wins).  But I suspect nobody here will care.  I just hope if your side does win, the greatness of the American Capitalist system is still championed and the respect and adoration for our Military is still recognized.  Cheers!


by KensUSA on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think the reason people don't get as mad (none / 0)


Ken,

It's too bad you have a hard time making people "reconsider their world view", but you might find it easier if you actually answered their questions.

For instance, your suspicion about what "many people on this blog" think conservatism means might be true, or it might be false, but what I asked you is what YOU think conservatism means.

The closest you come to answering my question is your hope that "the greatness of the American Capitalist system is still championed and the respect and adoration for our Military is still recognized".  As a linguistic conservative, I cringe at your Gratuitous Capitalization, but leave that aside.  Do you really define conservatism as "adoration" for our military?  

-- TP


by Rethymniotis on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 01:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

heh... broad brush... (none / 0)

"product of our worthless public education system"

nah... no broad brushes there...


by its simple IF you ignore the complexity on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:20:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heh... broad brush... (none / 0)

So you equate stating that our public education system is worthless to classifying all Republicans as Racist Hate Mongers??  Nice.  You need to gain some perspective pal.


by KensUSA on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:08:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heh... broad brush... (2.00 / 1)

Please point to where JewishJake referenced "all" Republicans.  Until you can, please stop mischaracterizing his remarks.

Public education is far from worthless and for you to say so shows a massive lack of perspective.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heh... broad brush... (none / 0)

Are you serious?  Jewishjake said "We have seen conservatives be racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. so much, we just are desensitized to it, and when they are accused of such, we just add it up to the other billion times its happened."
I'll revise my statement to say that he was a product of "a" worthless public education rather then "our" worthless public education.  The broad brush painting happens on both sides, I'll admit that.  Can you admit the same?

by KensUSA on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 08:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Can we get a clue about the difference between Hagee and Farrakhan?

Here are some Farrakhan samplers:

So I said to the members of the press, 'Why won't you go and look into what we are saying about the threats on Reverend Jackson's life?' Here the Jews don't like Farrakhan and so they call me 'Hitler'. Well that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't great for me as a Black man but he was a great German and he rose Germany up from the ashes of her defeat by the united force of all of Europe and America after the First World War. Yet Hitler took Germany from the ashes and rose her up and made her the greatest fighting machine of the twentieth century, brothers and sisters, and even though Europe and America had deciphered the code that Hitler was using to speak to his chiefs of staff, they still had trouble defeating Hitler even after knowing his plans in advance. Now I'm not proud of Hitler's evil toward Jewish people, but that's a matter of record. He rose Germany up from nothing. Well, in a sense you could say there is a similarity in that we are rising our people up from nothing, but don't compare me with your wicked killers.

These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It's the wicked Jews, the false Jews that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality, [and] Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government [on the war in Iraq]

Also, from Wikipedia:

Farrakhan has referred to Jews, Palestinian Arabs, Koreans, and Vietnamese collectively as "bloodsuckers" and maintains that "Murder and lying comes easy for white people."

Granted that Hagee is a pernicious person in his own right, before we talk as though Farrakhan and Hagee are "just the same", could we produce a few equally morally obscene quotes from Hagee?


by frankly0 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:30:34 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Did you not read the post? The part about Muslims "being programmed to kill" or hurricanes punishing gays, or Jews deserving most of what had happened to them? Or are you as per your posting history just a hack in the tank for Hillary and John McCain?


by Socraticsilence on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

If you think that there is a fair comparison, I suggest that you post the actual quotes, not the sort of obviously slanted paraphrases you are coming up with.

Just as a pointed example, according to the Wikipedia entry, Farrakhan had called Koreans, Vietnamese, Jews, and others "bloodsuckers" and had said, "Murder and lying comes easy for white people."

I know you want very much for everybody to believe that Hagee is 100% as bad, but if you can't find comparable statements from Hagee, just give up your case.

Look, there really are degrees of evil. From what I've seen, Hagee is not nearly as evil as Farrakhan, just as Farrakhan is not nearly as evil as, say, Hitler.

Or can't you make these distinctions? Has politics so eroded your moral sense that they are all one and the same?


by frankly0 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:05:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's one... (2.00 / 1)

"All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that."

Saying that all those people who died deserved it is pretty damn evil.

Obama has denounced Farrakhan and his hateful beliefs.  Let's see McCain do the same for Hagee and his.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (1.00 / 2)

Look, it is a staple of the religious belief of many, many people that God does indeed punish people for sinful behavior. Of course suggesting that, say, the people of NO deserved Katrina because of a gay pride parade, or some such, is obviously an evil and damaging thing to say.

But is it the equal to praising Hitler at great length as Farrakhan has done? To calling Koreans, Vietnamese, and Jews collectively "bloodsuckers"? To referring to Judaism by a term as low and vile as "gutter religion"?

Really, unless your opinion on the matter is foreordained by a political point you want to score,  requiring you to affect the same amount of outrage in the case of Hagee as with Farrakhan, I don't see you could possibly make out the case. Each one of the quotes I presented from Farrakhan is far worse than the quote from Hagee, by any rational reckoning.


by frankly0 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 12:46:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (none / 0)

You're right Frankly celebrating the death of 1000+ Americans as an example of God's Vengance is A-OK, please note that I was paraphrasing quotes used in the original article, that is the root of this Post, that and stop being deliberately obtuse you friggin jagoff.


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:13:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (2.00 / 1)

"Muslims are programmed to kill unbelievers" that's not a paraphrase that's in the article and its worse than any comment by Farrakhan you cited, seriously even the bloodsuckers thing could at least be spun to be about money (antisemitic still though).


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:17:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (none / 0)

Look, it is a staple of the religious belief of many, many people that God does indeed punish people for sinful behavior. Of course suggesting that, say, the people of NO deserved Katrina because of a gay pride parade, or some such, is obviously an evil and damaging thing to say.

But is it the equal to praising Hitler at great length as Farrakhan has done? To calling Koreans, Vietnamese, and Jews collectively "bloodsuckers"? To referring to Judaism by a term as low and vile and deliberately inflammatory as "gutter religion"?

Really, unless your opinion on the matter is foreordained by a political point you want to score,  requiring you to affect the same amount of outrage in the case of Hagee as with Farrakhan, I don't see you could possibly make out the case. Each one of the quotes I presented from Farrakhan is far worse than the quote from Hagee, by any rational reckoning.


by frankly0 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (none / 0)

How do you figure?  Hagee's quote praises the deaths of thousands of people.  I don't see any of the quotes you cited doing that.

That said, I'm not going to get into a discussion with you about who is more evil.  To haggle that this person might be a little more evil than that person is missing the point.  They both say evil, hateful things and they both are in the same ballpark of evil.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:25:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (none / 0)

There you go again.  Hagee praised the death of thousands of people? No he didn't. Are you so clueless as to religious understanding that you would interpret Hagee as saying that?  You hearing what you want to hear but don't expect that bulk of voters to agree with you.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:55:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (none / 0)

You're full of it.

It is not logical to interpret them any other way.  He said that a hurricane wiped out NO because the people there were sinful.  Further he says that his god directly controls hurricanes.  If his god only does good, as he believes, he is therefore saying that it was a good thing that NO was wiped out.  That is praising it.

He made a despicable comment.  That anyone here would try to defend them is astounding to me.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 01:10:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (none / 0)

Sure Obama has denounced Farrakhan.  But he had his children baptized in a Church that gave Farrakhan their "Man of the Year" award or whatever it was.  Is Obama denouncing the support of that Church also? Is he denouncing the support of Donnie McClurkin?  I think not.

Really. Most of America doesn't care about Obama's church or Hagee's teachings. If you want to figure out why, apply the same standard to McCain that you do to Obama.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's one... (none / 0)

I'm sure that my church likes some people that I don't like too.  That doesn't mean that I support those people.

McCain has directly accepted Hagee's support.  Obama has explicitly denounced Farrakhan.

I don't really get your point.  Is it that McCain shouldn't denounce Hagee and his despicable views?


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 01:17:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

You need the quotes because context is everything. Would anybody disagree that Muslim suicide bombers are "being programmed to kill" by their extremist ideology?  Well, you might,  but you would be outside the mainstream.

Also Hagee didn't say the Jews deserved what happened to them, he said it was the result of Jewish apostasy. You might not like it but Orthodox Jews would agree with Hagee.  Hagee is a huge supporter of Israel and Israeli politicians actively seek his support for Israel.  He is not at all an anti-semite.

Meanwhile, Obama's two daughters were baptized at an eccentric Afrocentric church that honors Lewis Farrakhan and gave him a lifetime achievement award.  Obama says the pastor who gave Farrakhan this award is his spiritual mentor.  As much as you want it to be true for Obama, there is no comparison with Farrakhan and Hagee.  Sorry.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:16:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Well in the sense that Farrakhan doesn't wnat ot Nuke the entire Middle East (excluding Israel) in order to bring on the end times you've got  apoint (this isn't my first time reading about the guy, look into him, he's in the Bob Jones school of christianity), seriously Hagee's far more of a nut than Obama's pastor and on the level with Farrakhan. As to the suicide bomber thing that's a good point, but let's put it another way if I said that Jew's a brainwashed to kill children, and then pointed to Baruch Goldstein, I would be rightly denounced as an anti-semite, so don't try excuse the man for his bigotry. Finally, I really have a hard time finding a contextual excuse for the anti-Catholic remarks but I'd love to see some of the attempts.


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:34:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Hagee doesn't want to bring on the end times by nuking the middle east. Give me a break. That is just not true.

As for Hagee's Anti-Catholic remarks, they are no more extreme than those made by Martin Luther,  John Calvin, and many other reformed preachers throughout history.  Are you now going to require that all Lutherans and and Presbyterians renounce Luther and Calvin? Or that all politicians do so?   Going after Hagee for theological issues with the Catholics just doesn't have legs.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:48:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Hey, we can play the old dudes who died a long time ago game , awesome, Farrakhan is actually more tolerant of the Jews than Martin Luther.


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:58:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

You have completely lost the thread.  The issue is whether a politician has to distance himself from every preacher that has strong theological opinions.

Every religion (except some new age stuff perhaps) teaches it is the one true religion and other religions are wrong or bad.  Nothing new there.  Religious people know and understand this divide and are not offended by it. People sometimes change religions. People have different religions in the same family.  Theological disagreements, even where very strong, does not equal hate.  People in America know how to disagree on religious issues and still get along, even love each other.

People that don's understand this are far removed from mainstream America's experience with religion.  Don't be surprised if you lose election after election with that attitude.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:45:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Hagee's antiMuslim bigotry is enough to suggest that what we are talking about here is apples and oranges, still just fruit in the end. It is difficult to distinguish Hagee's perspective from antiSemitism in this sense, and I can't imagine anyone defending him on relative grounds as he is no really no better than Farrakhan in his promulgation of religious hatred.

The right wing Likudnik supporters of Israel are merely using him and his organization to their own ends, as is McCain. Fortunately, by accepting this endorsement, McCain has opened himself up to answer to everything Hagee supports. It is a can of worms that I'm certain the Democratic nominee, Obama, will open up, if not the moderators of the presidential debates.  


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 07:06:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Shergald-
 The really hilarious thing about Hagee, is that he goes so far to justify his support for Israel-- I'm not just talking aobut the standard eschatologist "Israel is necessary to bring about the end times" spiel either, no Hagee actually argues that Jesus wasn't the Messiah (or at least that he never said he was) and thus Jews never explicitly rejected him as such" while I'm agnostic, I did attend enough Sunday school growing up, to know that that's pretty much heresy, or at least some bizarro world variation on Messianic Judaism (more commonly known as "Jews for Jesus").

 To others defending his anti-Muslim, and anti-homosexual views on the basis of either real world events (a common tactic of anti-semites: "Hey, Jewish people really did own a lot of Hollywood Studio's, see we're not bigots"), or inter-religious commonality (which is such a freaking cop-out, I mean Female Genital Mutlialtion is acceptable in Animism, Islam and Christianity does that make it morally acceptable?, additionally, some of you were the exact same people who attacked Obama for having Mcclurkin perform at some Southern Rallies-- people who never note that Obama is the only canidate to denounce homophobic bigotry at its roots religious institutions, I might add-- where was this defense then; or is this yet another case of IOKIYNBO), what are your reactions to the man's anti-Catholic remarks, which frankly go beyond the normal anti-papist bigotry and begin to resemble the "Maria Monk" (roughly analogous to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" but for Catholics) crap of the 19th to Early 20th centuries?


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:56:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

I am telling you guys, you are attacking a straw man.  I don't know where the rumor got started that Christian fundamentalists are trying to bring about the end times but it is simply false.  For them the end times is really a bad bad era they do not want to be involved in.  The end times is something they want to avoid.  They talk about end times prophecy and how current events relate the same way weather watchers look out for tornados or hurricanes. this has been going at least a thousand years.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:54:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Incredible - even a pretty damning post about John McCain becomes fodder for more Hillary whining. Have you (or Jane) considered that our primary isn't quite over yet, which would explain why people aren't monitoring McCain's every move and word?


by amiches on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:32:43 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

i would hope that we hold hillary to a higher standard than mccain.


by stanleyjewbrick on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:44:21 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

A double standard maybe...

I would hope that when the white house is on the line democrats would be more vocal and mobile. Though I suppose some people would rather have McCain over Hillary


by world dictator on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:26:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

I don't think there is a double standard. Hillary is a Democrat. I hold her to the standards of one. That means ethical, reasonable, fact-based behavior.

McCain is a Republican. I hold him to the standards of one. That means I am pleasantly surprised when he doesn't torture babies for fun.


by alchemi on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Forget Hagee; what about Parsley???? (none / 0)

Let's not forget McCain cozying up with extremist Rod Parsley. It's probably more worrying than Hagee; not just because Parsley's all about merging the military and religious rhetoric, but because he's the brainchild behind the Patriot Pastors campaign that helped Bush win in 2004.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2008/02/mc cain_brings_p.html


For Student Power: http://forstudentpower.org/blog
by Liberaltarian on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:00:00 PM EST

Re: Forget Hagee; what about Parsley???? (none / 0)

Okay, I get it.  You guys think the way for Obama or Hillary to win is to attack Christianity in general.

Brilliant. That is so the winning strategy.

Fortunately Obama is not such a stupid ass. He has Donnie McClurkin sing at his rallies. He doesn't distance himself from his own church that supports Farrakhan.  Sheesh you guys should think about why.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:58:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forget Hagee; what about Parsley???? (none / 0)

No, not christianity in General, and frankly I don't think Obama should do the attack, I want Tim Russert to sack up and ask Mccain to denounce Hagee.


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:00:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forget Hagee; what about Parsley???? (none / 0)

I don't see it happening and don't think this has legs.  You are raising this equation where Obama's spiritual mentor embraces jew hating Farrakhan and you want the media to leave it alone but McCain gets support from Jew loving Isrealphile Hagee and you want the media to attack it.  Because Hagee's theological disagreement with Catholics and Muslims is sooo unconscionable?

If I'm McCain I can think of at least a dozen different ways to parry that kind of attack, bolster support from the base, and keep Obama's connection to Farrakhan in the media so that every last Jew in America is double aware of it.  

It goes nowhere in my opinion.


by dMarx on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, that's one advantage of being a Republican (none / 0)

Never having to say you're sorry.  

Who knows?  McCain might say something about this.  But, he's just not the kind of guy that stuff like this is going to stick to. McCain's public persona is too low key, modest, and respectful.


by lombard on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:10:23 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

what can we do to get this in the media??

should we write letters to the editor?  how can we get MSM to give this coverage?


by bluedavid on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:11:19 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist (none / 0)

Its so nice to see a glimmer of the MYDD I once knew and loved... I don't know if it will ever be the same (I don't think it ever will be for me,) but all the same it is nice to know that the bloodletting is almost over and we are going to try and go back to focusing on our common enemies.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:11:19 PM EST

A lot of Democrats (none / 0)

A lot of Democrats all across this country watch John Hagee each week and are inspired and renewed by his teachings. Just thought y'all should know.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:20:01 PM EST

Re: A lot of Democrats (none / 0)

A lot of Dem listen to Farrakhan, a lot of Dems listened to Mcclurkin, just because hate mongers have an audience doesn't mean they shouldn't be disdained.


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:18:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A lot of Democrats (none / 0)

Farrakhan and McClurkin don't have daily and televangelist ministries. Get some perspective, buddy.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A lot of Democrats (none / 0)

Ah, so this guys worse, I got ya! Seriously, the fact that he's a televangelist should mitigate this? Michael Savage has a decent sized radio audience, that doesn't mean he's not a bigot. (Additionally I think it could be argued that Mcclurkin now, and Farrakhan in the past had proportionally larger shares of their target audiences than Hagee has ever had of his).


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:16:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Virulent Hatred" (none / 0)

I have noticed that the passion that fueled the virulent hatred against Hillary Clinton in comments across the blogosphere just does not transfer to John McCain.

That's because so many bloggers spend more time trying to define the Democratic Party than anything else. When 95% of the writers in a thread are Dems, that's what you debate and argue over. That shouldn't be a surprise.

Clinton supporters have been after Obama's blood for having an unambitious health care plan. Obama supporters have been after Clinton for supporting the Iraq war.

A lot of Clinton's most vocal supporters think it's high time a woman be nominated for President. Some of Obama's strongest support blocs want to nominate an African American for President.

Obama supporters want to see a campaigns run primarily by promoting progressive values, and Clinton supporters want to see campaigns run by presenting progressive policies.

Not all of this is true of every candidate supporter, but we all want to shape the Democratic party so it reflects our beliefs and identities. Is that really surprising?

The insinuation Jane was trying to make is beneath her, and it should be beneath you. I haven't seen any major blogs -- even those most thoroughly tilted towards Obama -- use your comments section to suggest that Clinton voters are deficient for their promises to support McCain in the general. That's because just about everybody (else) realizes that we'll all have to work together in the summer and fall.


by scvmws on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:22:35 PM EST

Re: Hamsher (none / 0)

I'm calling bullshit on this one.  I will stack my progressive cred up against virtually anyone in the blogosphere.  I was upset by some of the tactics engaged in by the Clinton campaign (not necessarily HRC herself).  I am much more outraged by McCain and the Hagee association.

So, count me as one of those offended by the Clinton campaign's use of race-based tactics, but even more offended (and more outspoken) by McCain.


by leveller on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:45:05 AM EST

Re: Hamsher (2.00 / 1)

I'd suggest that Democratic Clinton-hate hasn't yet been refocused on McCain because the primary isn't yet over. It'll happen eventually.

And I call bullshit on you. I've seen the Clinton-hate on Democratic sites. I've seen it here on MyDD (in the comments). I'm a long time reader who only started commenting here because of it.

Pretending it doesn't exist won't do anybody any good. After this primary and election is over, I'd suggest that blogs deal with it.


by JohnS on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:05:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hamsher (none / 0)

One reason besides the primary fever felt by partisans of both HRC and Obama, is quite frankly outrage fatigue, I mean seriously the tolerance for shocking on the GOP is alarmingly high-

McCain's already said he'd:

-Stay in Iraq 100 years
-Start more Wars
-Sung about Bombing Iran
-Gone back on what should be to him, more than any other national leader, a bedrock principal-- "Torture is wrong"
-That he'd hold Obama to a public financing pledge while at the same time violating a binding public financing agreement (that's either ballsy as hell our just dumb)
-Cited unamed sources just a week after calling similar levels of proof, a gross violation of journalistic ethics

Etc., basically at this point you'd need to find documentable evidence that the Swiftboat style rumors are true ("he sold out his fellow servicemen and lived it up while a POW", oh and that the hearings he and Kerry held on the MIA's were rigged to leave men behind in order to trade with the Commies, I saw this claim multiplew times of Freerepublic so it must be true according to the Kerry in Nam standards), or have him light a cross on national TV, for it to make waves.  


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:06:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hamsher (none / 0)

My point is not that "Clinton-hate" does not exist in the liberal blogosphere.  My point is rather that there are plenty of progressives who don't necessarily love Clinton, but who also have been aggressively denouncing, rejecting, and harshly criticizing McCain for quite some time--and with far more vigor than the critiques of Clinton.

Our perceptions are skewed by the lens of candidate preference.  I'm just pointing out that Hamsher is no different--she is no more an objective observer than you or I.

There has been plenty of "Obama-hate" here, too--just look at SusanHu's daily Obama hit piece, for example.


by leveller on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 12:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

Does Obama's pastor advocate a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Iran?  McCain's does.


by Bob H on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:04:07 AM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

He doesn't stop at Iran, the nutball wants to nuke the whole Middle East.


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:07:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nuking (none / 0)


by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:07:43 AM EST

McCain Has Come A Long Way (none / 0)

in the last eight years; he now welcomes the support of a certified agent of intolerance.


by Bob H on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:17:57 AM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

We always frame these things as, "We had to do it, so should they!"

That makes us look weak and whiny.  Screw explaining why we think he should answer -- just demand that he answer.

That's one of the reasons why our side gets hit and theirs doesn't.  They don't appeal to reason or make long impassioned arguments for why answering the question is a good idea: they just say, "Answer the question."

The media can get it's head around the latter, but these long-winded appeals to reason are beyond them.


by nathan on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 12:00:46 PM EST

Re: Will McCain Denounce Extremist Pastor Who Endo (none / 0)

"SD: Tim Johnson 70% - Steve Kirby 19%"

50 states! If you are the spineless tool of ignorant religious bigots or the rich, if you are a Bush-enabling, Supreme-court-packing, kidnap-and-torture-whilst-ignoring-Osama Republican, check this: we're coming for you.


by EMTP democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:39:32 PM EST


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