I Was Too Busy Running for President -Updated-

In last night's debate Hillary mentioned that Obama was Chair of the subcommittee that has oversight over NATO. And that while Chair of that Subcommittee Senator Obama held not a single substantial meeting. Not one. When confronted with this Obama's excuse was that he had only been Chair since 2007 and he has been busy running for President since then. Hmmm... we have soldiers dying in Afghanistan and Senator Obama is too busy running for President to hold a single meeting? Did I miss something? Surely I need a hearing aid. He didn't just state that the reason he hasn't held a single meeting of oversight was because he was too busy out raising money and running for President.

Say it ain't so O!

While searching through the web I have read some of Obama's supporters come to his defense with the typical bait and switch.
"Well Hillary hasn't done anything while she has been running for President." Oh really? What about The Dignified Treatment of Wounded Warriors Act?
Just what has Carl Levin said about Hillary's legislative accomplishments?

Noting Senator Clinton's leadership, Senator Carl Levin (D-MI), Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, today noted that Senator Clinton has introduced more legislation to address the problems facing wounded servicemembers than any other Senator.
And somehow Hillary managed to do this in 2007 when Obama was too busy running for President to spend any time holding oversight meetings of NATO while our young women and men were being killed in Afghanistan. Too busy!

From last night's debate:

SEN. OBAMA: Well, first of all, I became chairman of this committee at the beginning of this campaign, at the beginning of 2007. So it is true that we haven't had oversight hearings on Afghanistan. I have been very clear in talking to the American people about what I would do with respect to Afghanistan.

Yes, he has been very clear in TALKING with the American people. What he hasn't been so clear about is what he has done as a United States Senator that is a Chair of the Subcommittee that has actual oversight over the process. Lots of very clear talking. Action, not so much.

Illinois' disabled veterans are at "rock bottom" -- "dead last" -- in benefits and claims processing of applications for disability. But Illinois' veterans take a back seat because their junior senator is running for president. And that senator, Barack Obama, has missed an astonishing number of hearings and meetings of the Senate Veterans committee.

But Obama has skipped 19 of 37 VA committee meetings in the 109th congress. Obama's attendance record was the second worst of all Democrats on the committee. He attended just 18 of the committee's 37 meetings in Washington D.C.

But he really cares and has given lots of speeches to prove it. But that showing up for work thing, the thing he was hired to do (and is paid by the taxpayers to do) he isn't so good at.

On the campaign trail, Obama stresses the importance of providing "the best care" for veterans and their families: "Providing the best care for our service members, veterans and their families is one thing about this war we can still get right."

   * But Sen. Obama has continually skipped hearings on the veterans budget. Chairman Craig opened a hearing Obama missed and said, "we will consider today ... legislation touching on veterans insurance, housing, burial, compensation, and employee benefits." Obama also missed all four committee hearings in a series that focused on the President's proposed 2007 budget for the Department of Veterans Affairs. Ranking Senator Akaka noted during the hearings that "we must learn a lesson from last year's budget crisis and do everything we can to ensure that veterans and their family members have access to health care and benefits they have earned." (From the GPO on 6/23/05, 2/28/06, 3/2/06, 3/7/06, March 9, 2006.)

Gosh, it seems that Senator Obama had a problem showing up for work in 2006 when he wasn't running for president too. What's up with that?

Obama stresses the importance of veterans health care: "Long as there are wounded service members receiving substandard medical care, we have failed in our duty to honor the commitment of the brave men and women who chose to serve. We must provide our returning heroes and their families with every resource they need to rebuild their lives," Obama said in a press release on April 10, 2007.

   * But Obama skipped a hearing about expanding veterans' health services. Craig opened, "We also have legislation before us to specifically address the demand for long-term care. As the veteran population ages, the demand for long-term care has increased accordingly." Akaka added that the committee would consider legislation that would encourage "creative ways to help alleviate the burden on caregivers while expanding services to veterans." (From the GPO, May 11, 2006.)

* Obama also skipped a hearing to create insurance benefits for veterans in rehabilitation. Craig announced that the committee would "hear testimony about the traumatically injured protection under service members' group life insurance benefit." Akaka declared that "this insurance program helps ease the financial burden" on a hospitalized service member's family. (From the GPO on September 7, 2006.)

Now if you haven't lost your eyesight or maybe just need to clean your glasses take a look at the dates above. Seems Mr. Obama just has a problem with showing up for work. He enjoys the money I'm sure. And the exposure he gets while being able to tell people he is a United States Senator must be very rewarding to his ego. But actually doing work? Real Harvard men don't work. Don't believe me? Read on:

   *  But Obama skipped the hearing on improving veterans' health care access. "In many cases, VA's facilities are located where veterans used to live, not where they now live," noted Chairman Craig. The legislation under consideration was "designed in part to address the changes in the demographics of our veterans' population and follows America's medicine's transformation from hospital-centric to patient-centric delivery of care." (From the GPO on April 6, 2006.)

* Sen. Obama also missed an "exceedingly important" nomination hearing for the VA's Undersecretary for Health. "Dr. Perlin [has been nominated] to serve as VA's Under Secretary for Health," announced Chairman Craig. "This is an exceedingly important position. The Under Secretary, in effect, serves as CEO of the VA's entire health care system, the largest integrated health care system in the United States. Dr. Perlin, this is a big, big, big job." (From the GPO on April 7, 2005.)

Or how about this:

   *  Sen. Obama missed the vote to eliminate requirement that severance pay be deducted from disability compensation: Obama did not vote for the Levin, D-Mich., amendment No. 2019 to the Levin substitute amendment No. 2011.

     (The Levin amendment would establish a Defense Department and Veterans Affairs Interagency Program Office to implement a joint electronic health record system and eliminate the current requirement that severance pay be deducted from disability compensation for disabilities incurred in a combat zone. It would authorize $50 million for the treatment and rehabilitation of service members with traumatic brain injury or post-traumatic stress disorder and create common disability ratings to determine those eligible for care. The substitute would authorize $648.3
billion for defense programs in fiscal 2008, including $127.5 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It also would authorize $143.5 billion for operations and maintenance; $109.9 billion for procurement; $122.9 billion for military personnel and $74.7 billion for research development, testing and evaluation.

     (The Senate vote results: #246, Amdt. 2019 to HR 1585, Passed 94-0: R 48-0; D 44-0 (ND 39-0, SD 5-0); I 2-0;

7/12/07; HRC voted yea while Obama did not vote.)

* Obama missed a vote to provide $109.3 billion in fiscal 2008 for the Department of Veterans Affairs: Obama did not vote for passage of the bill that would provide $109.3 billion in fiscal 2008 for the Department of Veterans Affairs, military construction and military housing. The bill would provide $87.5 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, including $37.2 billion for veterans health programs. It would provide $41.2 billion in mandatory spending for veterans' service-connected compensation benefits and pensions. The bill would provide $9.8 billion for military construction, $2.9 billion for military family housing and $8.5 billion for the latest round of base
closures. As amended, the bill would provide $100 million in emergency funding for the Homeland Security Department to reimburse state and local law enforcement entities for security and related costs associated with the 2008 presidential candidate nominating conventions. (From Vote 316, HR 2642 (Fiscal 2008 Military Construction-VA Appropriations), Passed 92-1: R 47-1; D 43-0 (ND 39-0, SD 4-0); I 2-0, 9/6/07; HRC voted yea while Obama did not vote.

Sure seems to me as if Senator Obama has a problem showing up for work. He has a real problem. If it were you or I we would have been sacked. But Mr. Obama isn't like you or me. He feels that he is entitled. He feels that he doesn't have to show up for work because, well, he is Barack Obama and he gives a good speech. He has no problem telling people how much he cares about them but when it comes to actually doing something about it he is nowhere to be seen. Or better put, he is out raising money and campaigning for a higher office. And this guy has the audacity to believe that he is qualified to do the job even though he isn't doing the job he was already hired to do. You and I would expect to lose our jobs if we didn't show up and do them. Obama believes he deserves a promotion. Those are some pretty big brass ones. Audacity indeed.

And what about the Walter Reed scandal? Where was Obama then? He sits on the Veterans Affairs Committee but for some reason was totally unaware what was going on. Even though the media apparently wasn't. Of course someone in the media probably showed up for work. The Washington Times was not amused.

The senators' call for simplifying paperwork, hiring more caseworkers and improving their training, requiring more oversight from inspectors general, improved reporting to Congress, establishing facility-repair timelines and increasing psychological counseling. It pains us to cry cynical politics because these measures would be worthy and welcome, but they are too small-bore and reactive to make a significant difference. This is classic scandal legislation which makes the sponsor look good but does little to solve the issue."

Get that? It makes the sponsor look good but does little to solve the issue. Sound familiar?

And just what happened to this proposed band aid fix that Obama touted last night that he passed and everyone should be so proud of him for? Just so happens that the proposal was referred to the Armed Services Committee where it was crafted into better more substantial legislation. You know the stuff, doesn't make anyone look particularly good because that isn't the purpose of it but it actually helps the people it is intended to help, and that substantially.

And who was it on the Armed Services Committee that actually provided substance to the much need legislation? That would be Hillary Clinton. Remember her? She is the one that actually does work. When it came time to pass the Wounded Warrior Act where was Senator Obama? He sure wasn't in the Senate doing his job. He didn't vote for the legislation he takes credit for passing. Nope, Barack was out of town telling folks how great he is and how much he cares about them. I am sure he didn't mention that while he was telling them how great he is and asking for their money he was missing voting on extremely important legislation that he would eventually take credit for. No, they probably wouldn't have liked that. And they probably wouldn't have given him any money. Or any votes. So the subject never came up.

Barack Obama has made a decision that it is more important for him to be out raising money and telling people how great he is rather than stay in Washington and do the job he is being paid by the American people to do. The Sub-Committee he Chairs is responsible for U.S. involvement with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), relations with the European Union (EU), and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Matters relating to Greenland and the northern polar region are also the responsibility of this subcommittee. The Sub-Committee is also responsible for all matters within the region under its jurisdiction with respect to terrorism and non-proliferation, crime and illicit narcotics, U.S. foreign assistance programs, and the promotion of U.S. trade and exports.

Sounds like pretty important stuff to me. But apparently not to Barack Obama.

Now, I always reserve the right for the president -- as commander in chief, I will always reserve the right to make sure that we are looking out for American interests.

So he reserves the right as Commander in Chief but not as the Chair of the Subcommittee responsible for oversight? How can we trust this guy to do something as Commander in Chief when he has not demonstrated a single instance of oversight when it HAS been his responsibility?

Senator Obama has made it the central issue of his campaign that the problem is politics as usual in Washington. But the problem isn't politics as usual, the problem is that the people that are hired by the American electorate are not doing the job they were hired to do. But then again, maybe that is the politics as usual that Obama is talking about. And he is right.

I leave you with a video from someone that is actually qualified to be our Commander in Chief because this person doesn't just tell people that she cares, she takes action and accomplishes it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsIV5keA3yk

Update [2008-2-27 19:24:42 by Fleaflicker]: Russ Feingold has proposed legislation titled: A bill to provide for the safe redeployment of United States troops from Iraq. The bill has 15 co-sponsors listed below. One name notably absent from this proposed bill is none other than Senator Barack I Was Too Busy Running for President Obama.

Sen Boxer, Barbara [CA] - 2/25/2008

Sen Brown, Sherrod [OH] - 2/25/2008

Sen Byrd, Robert C. [WV] - 2/25/2008

Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham [NY] - 2/25/2008

Sen Dodd, Christopher J. [CT] - 2/25/2008

Sen Durbin, Richard [IL] - 2/25/2008

Sen Harkin, Tom [IA] - 2/25/2008

Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. [NJ] - 2/26/2008

Sen Leahy, Patrick J. [VT] - 2/25/2008

Sen Menendez, Robert [NJ] - 2/14/2008

Sen Reid, Harry [NV] - 2/13/2008

Sen Sanders, Bernard [VT] - 2/25/2008

Sen Schumer, Charles E. [NY] - 2/26/2008

Sen Whitehouse, Sheldon [RI] - 2/25/2008

Sen Wyden, Ron [OR] - 2/25/2008



Display:


Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 8)

Great post. I wish you could get it out to the MSM. We need to wake America up now, before it's too late.


by seattlegonz on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:10:46 AM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 5)

Thank you. Do you have any suggestions for doing so?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:11:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 3)

Make a press pitch and send it to op-ed boards of different newspapers.

Generally, the big news papers want exclusive work, so they have to get it first, and it cant be published anywhere else.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:59:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 0)

Thanks. A very good suggestion.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:09:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 2)

You can send your article as a letter to Editor.  If you need address contact admin@hillaryresponders.com
They can give you the information.

You can also post your article at the blog listed in this link

http://www.hillaryresponders.com/index.p hp?option=com_content&view=article&a mp;id=39&Itemid=46


by JoeySky18 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

This is a list of newspaper Editor that you can send your article.

http://www.hillaryresponders.com/index.p hp?option=com_content&view=category& amp;layout=blog&id=16&Itemid=48


by JoeySky18 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 0)

Hey, thanks for all the great info. I started posting it on some blogs.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

Do you have any idea how to get the video thing to work? I copied it to my clipboard and then pasted it in the diary. But can't get it to work. And the web address of it isn't clickable. Do you know how to fix that?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:13:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Keep doing what you're doing... (2.00 / 2)

And send links to this diary to anyone you know who's still undecided. Let's make sure everyone knows the facts before they pick our next President.


We shall overcome!
by atdleft on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep doing what you're doing... (none / 0)

Thanks. Will do. And am.

But how do I get the video to be on the page and how do I get the address to link?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep doing what you're doing... (2.00 / 2)

The problem is that the AutoFormat screws up the YouTube code when it posts.

You have to take the embed code that you have and put it straight into the HTML. You can do this by editing your diary--it should be in HTML Formatted, and just copy the same code you already have there.


by OrangeFur on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:04:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep doing what you're doing... (none / 0)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean but I will give it a try.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

get it on Ben Smith (Political) (none / 0)

How do you get it to Ben Smith? He may publish it.

Oh of course the famous Drudge.


by del on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Get this to CNN (none / 0)

Wolf Blitzer is looking at some of these things. Had a piece today about the committee.


by del on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get this to CNN (none / 0)

Do you have a link to what Wolf did?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:06:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get this to CNN (2.00 / 1)

I don't, I had it on tivo. I'll see if I can find it on the web.


by del on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:35:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get this to CNN (none / 0)

Thanks, greatly appreciated.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:03:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Guess who else didn't show up to this vote because she was too busy running for President?

BTW, this is a vote that was brought to the floor by the Republicans because they want to squash the Feingold amendment.

It's a vote to say we should debate the bill before we vote on the bill.

Well, shit!  Get on a plane, Barack!  We gotta vote to talk about some stuff before we actually vote on it!


by doschi on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 01:50:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 6)

The pathetic thing is the hordes of young males that support Obama (because he's "cool") don't realize that regardless of who is president, there may come a day when America is drawn into another war and THEY will be the veterans, the disabled soldiers just fighting for basic benefits.... and they idolized and pushed a candidate that was too busy running for president to show up for them.  

They are rejecting a candidate that has a proven record (regardless of the political season) of standing up for the military and getting them the benefits they and their families deserve. Instead they're choosing a guy who "talks to the American people" about what he's going to do.

Haven't we had ENOUGH of the middle-aged men in suits telling us what they're GOING to do??? Time to try something different. How about electing a president who has EXPERIENCE doing what needs to be done? Not empty promises like Reagan, and like Bush, and now, Obama.  


by Catriley sez on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:25:10 AM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I find your characterization of Obama supporters to be rather simplistic.

He wins young women as well.


by pastor john on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 2)

40% of women 18-44 do NOT support Obama.

50% of women over 45 do NOT support Obama.

(Source: NYT)

Clearly he's going to need a lot more substance to win their support.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Are you delusional? This is the weakest argument I have ever seen. Your not even grasping at straws - you are grasping at nothing at all.

The same argument can be used against Hillary, can it not? According to your statistics, 60% of women under 44 DO support Obama. And what about the ~80% of blacks that do NOT support Hillary? Point is, this is a contested primary - do you expect 100% of ANY group to back one candidate? No, of course not, that would be an irrational expectation in a competitive election.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

I couldn't agree with you more. Excellent points. All of them.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:12:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he comapres himself with Reagan (2.00 / 1)

Reagan wasn't just known as the teflon president, he was also called the campaigning president, it never sunk in that he had the job.  Obama doens't see the presidency as a job anymore than he took his senate responsibilities seriously. He's proud to say he starting running for prez as soon as he made it to the senate, as if that's good.  And he has the audacity to mis-report her real record, knowing he has no positive record, just a record of ducking and running.  We have the best candidate ever and the media wants McCain?  Well, they're not working two jobs to take care of small kids.  


what a relief
by anna shane on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he comapres himself with Reagan (2.00 / 2)

I think that thinking people can see the truth about Obama. Those that don't really pay attention to politics and are looking for savior are the ones that are supporting him.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:49:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he comapres himself with Reagan (none / 0)

Keep insulting Obama supporters.  That's sure to persuade them to become Clinton supporters!

Seriously, if your candidate and her campaign had taken a little less of a similar tack, it might have done better.  Too late now however because the nomination train has left the station.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he comapres himself with Reagan (2.00 / 3)

It was an observation and not meant as an insult. When it is so blatantly obvious that Obama hasn't done the job he was hired to do and goes around the country acting like he is some great leader when he clearly is not, what is a reasonable person to think?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its a common strategy of con men to build some (none / 0)

Your quote about ripped my heart out.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:33:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 2)

Great post!  I second that motion to get it out to the MSM.  Perhaps you could lob it over to the Hillary campaign.


by bach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:27:17 AM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 6)

I caught that comment too. And he said it with a smug look while he was nodding his head, as if it was a legitimate excuse. Unfortunately, nobody called him on it. Not even Hillary. Of course, she didn't get much of a chance, since the moderators quickly moved on to another question. You might have more luck getting her campaign to call attention to it than getting the MSM to report it. If she gives a fire and brimstone speech about it being an example of his being all hat and no cattle, even the media would probably pick up on it and show the clip. You can pretty much bet that the GOP campaign strategists didn't miss it, and you will see him in a campaign ad saying that he didn't have any meetings because he was too busy running for President before this race is over.


by georgiapeach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:33:54 AM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 0)

Ok, but how do I get the campaign to do this?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:06:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I wish I knew. Maybe if enough of us e-mail them, somebody will take notice. If your going after the media, try sending e-mails to some of the shows that read them on the air, like Lou Dobbs.


by georgiapeach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

Smug is the right word for it.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:15:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

McCain is just as vulnerable on this line of attack.  No worries!


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:03:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 4)

   
  Great post. Please send this along to DailyKos. I think it would put a knot in their shorts.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:34:33 AM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 0)

I don't post at Kos. But if you are a member you have my permission to post it there as long as it is attributed to me. Please do!


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:06:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary did not say anything (2.00 / 1)

because she has ALSO missed the same votes as Obama, except the FISA vote.

if you're going to criticize Obama for his missed time in the Senate, you're also going to have to critique Clinton, Biden AND Dodd as well.


by fightinfilipino on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:56:48 AM EST

Re: Hillary did not say anything (2.00 / 1)

Please provide documentation.


by Dave B on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:22:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Documentation? (2.00 / 1)

Documentation is not needed - it is a well known and non-controversial fact that a Senator running for president will miss many, many votes and debates. It's not great, but it is accepted by all parties involved.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

Hmmm.  So you are saying you don't need the facts to form a judgment.  That is, of course, what those of us who support Hillary have been thinking must be necessary in order to support Sen. Obama.


by macmcd on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:49:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

Ok, so that was a nice cheap shot, claiming that Obama supporters must ignore facts in order to support Barack Obama. Basically, you are implying we are delusional or ignorant, or some combination. So thanks for keeping the conversational civil - and yes, that last line was sarcastic.

I am saying that the facts are so painfully obvious and well-known that providing a link is unnecessary. All sitting legislators miss time in their jobs when running for President. You seem to want to squabble over who missed more time, or who missed this or that vote. This seems petty to me. They all miss time in the Senate - it is a price they all pay for running for president. I, for one, would rather discuss something more substantive than waste time nitpicking over something that is both universal and excepted.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (2.00 / 2)

The blog above (if you read the whole thing) actually points out that Obama was missing important votes BEFORE he started running for President.  And also points out legislation that Clinton has been present for.  I'll do more research for you if you want because I am pretty sure she has managed to hold meetings for the sub commitee on Superfund and Environmental Health since starting her Presidential run.


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

Thanks for the pointing this out. We need to stick together so that the truth can prevail.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (2.00 / 2)

Did you even read the post you are commenting on?  Your statement is false.  HRC has the better voting record on this.  Obama did not show up, over and over, while she did.  Facts are facts, no matter what you wish them to be.

Frankly, people like you scare me.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:59:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (2.00 / 1)

Sorry to scare you. My point was simple and, I maintain, non-controversial. When a Senator runs for president they miss time in the Senate. They miss debate, they miss hearings, they miss votes. This is nothing new. And it is true for Dodd, Biden, Clinton, McCain, Obama - ALL senators.
Is it so surprising that the underdog candidate, when facing an opponent with universal name-recognition, had to spend a little less time in the Senate and a little more time on the campaign trail to remain competitive? This seems like such a basic level of logic it is a waste of time writing it down. It's too obvious to merit discussion.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:04:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (2.00 / 2)

This underdog thing is old and stale.  He has more money, more delegates, and the media on his side, not to mention that the Republicans want him to be the nominee so bad that they have been voting for him in all the red states with crossover primaries.

Please spend more time looking at the facts and less time making excuses for this No-Change Change candidate who has run one of the dirtiest campaigns in the past two decades.  (If you don't believe me, go over and read http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?i d=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304 for just one aspect of it.)  There is still time to stop him and save the general election.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

The "underdog" comment is referring to the VAST majority of this campaign when he was the underdog. Only since Feb 5th has he began rising to frontrunner status. For the ENTIRE campaign prior to Feb 5th (just 3 weeks ago) he was the underdog, in a big way. I think it is very clear from the context of the discussion that I was talking about the majority of Obama's campaign, and not just the last month.

Furthermore, you are just smearing Obama and not offering arguments. You call him the "No-change change candidate". That's really sounds more like you are mocking him and less like you are critiquing him. Telling me I am making excuses? I am offering reasonable explanations. Please, feel free to argue with them on their merits, but don't just dismiss me because you disagree.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:27:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (2.00 / 2)

Oh please.  

Obama has been the media darling ever since Iowa, when Hillary was universally pronounced dead, after one latte caucus vote in a tiny non-representative state.  He has never had to answer hard questions.  Even in the debates he has been given the last word on more than 60% of the questions (somebody actually counted after last night), and his gaffes have not been questioned.  He went dirty early and has not let up.  Follow the link I gave you.  Read my earlier diary here (What I Will and Will Not Do).  Or just open your mind.

Obama followers seem to have been given a fact vaccine.  This Diary and the comments by Obama supporters in it show that clearly.  When someone gives you lots of facts about a specific point, you find ways to talk about something else.  When someone gives you lots of facts about a variety of points, you find ways to cover your ears.  It's all out there, you just have to want to know the truth.  Rezko, Exelon, "Present" votes, the thin record, the false claims of passing legislation, the race-baiting.

Obama may have delivered a mortal blow to the Democratic Party, all to satisfy his personal ambition.  This wound will not heal.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

The media bias is questionable. Afterall, this is the same media that keeps confusing Osama bin Laden with Barack Obama. But I agree, Hillary has had a much harder time with the press than Obama and it is unfair. Moving on...

Ok, so you list off a big list of problems with Obama. Of course I could just as easily list off a big list of problems with Clinton. Politicians aren't perfect - are you surprised?

But I am more concerned with these statements:


Obama followers seem to have been given a fact vaccine.

That is just an unnecessary and rude attack. You should stop communicating in such an abrasive way. Maybe then people will be more willing to listen to your other points.

Obama may have delivered a mortal blow to the Democratic Party, all to satisfy his personal ambition.  This wound will not heal.

A mortal blow? Please elaborate. How has he harmed the party? He has brought in new voters, new donors and new activists - much of this in red and purple states. He has strengthened the party. As has Hillary. This whole primary has made Democrats MUCH stronger across the country. Good for us. But when you turn it around and characterize a competitive primary as the death of the party, one has to wonder whether or not you actually support Democratic ideals. You seem so eager to watch the party die.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

I think the fact vaccine comment is a fair one.  It's as if Obama's supporters cannot see his record.  It is thin and unimpressive.  The plethora of "Present" votes indicates a lack of political courage and an inability to make difficult choices.  Both are truly dangerous deficiencies in a President.

And then, Obama has actually lied outright, twice that I know of, once concerning the Exelon legislation, and once in last night's debate.  Both times he was claiming to have passed legislation and the claims were false.  That's serious.  And no, those situations are not comparable to anything HRC has said in her campaign and they are not normal politics.  And if Hillary did either, the media would condemn her.

Then there is the race-baiting.  Did you read the link I provided in this very thread?

Even his signature issue is phony.  Sen. Hagel (a Republican) wrote the resolution to force the inspectors back in, not to authorize preemptive war and he was told personally by the Bush administration that that was the purpose.  That's what Hillary voted for.  As for Obama, after his great speech on the war, he did nothing, and later took the speech off his Web site; he said in 2004 that he didn't know how he would have voted on the resolution AND that there was no difference between him and Geo. Bush on the war.

There are the dishonest and inconsistent tactics used by the Obama campaign on superdelegates, leaking stories about Clinton stealing his, while actually stealing hers, and pushing through Move-on (after the latter's phony blink-and-you-missed-it vote to choose Obama) to cover his bet if he can't steal enough of her delegates by having Co-Chair Jesse Jackson Jr. threaten them.  

Why don't these things have an effect on Obama's supporters?  The question is a legitimate one.  And that is what I mean when I talk about a mortal blow to the Democratic party, to its credibility, to its very decency.  And no, I don't think the wound will heal.

You seem sincere.  I give you credit for that.  But you are wrong:  this has not been just a competitive primary.  It has been a very ugly thing indeed.  I know many women who are more angry than I have ever seen them.  The sexist Hillary-bashing in the media, and the race-baiting, happily taken advantage of by the Obama team all the way up to his co-chairs and himself, has done damage that will last for a long time.

As for the people Obama has brought into the party, I'm not as sanguine as you.  The ones who are following him without seeing his real record, and the ones who are shouting down anyone who disagrees with them on leftie blogs, are not going to provide any long-term support to the party.  But the ones he has driven away, women, Hispanics, and people who care about the truth, will begin looking elsewhere.

You are right about one thing, though, I really don't give a damn about the Democratic party any more.  I supported it for forty years after I heard, and saw, in a newsreel, JFK tell the young women of Girls Nation, in 1963, that "I am confident that some day it is very possible--well, it may not be possible for you to be President, but at least I am sure we are talking to a future First Lady."  Evidently that's still how the old boys in the party still see things, and the young boys Obama has brought into the party.  I personally will never give another dime to the DNC.  I throw away their mailers now.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:57:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

A vaccine to inoculate them from truth?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Documentation? (none / 0)

Yes.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did not say anything (2.00 / 3)

She has not missed the same votes as he has and the diary points that out with documentation. She has a far better attendance record and record of voting in teh senate than he does.

You really should read the entire diary before commenting to avoid looking uninformed.

I think the original poster needs to send this to the campaign and we all need to rec it and send links to everyone we know, blogs and media included.


by americanincanada on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did not say anything (2.00 / 1)

Cool. Let's get the word out. i will try to send this to the campaign.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did not say anything (none / 0)

Obama: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes.xp d?person=400629

Clinton: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes.xp d?person=300022

huh.  O RLY.


by fightinfilipino on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did not say anything (2.00 / 3)

How about we look at 2007? Rather than just jan and Feb. of 2008.


by americanincanada on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did not say anything (none / 0)

How about we pick whichever date you find to be significant, much like how Sen Clintons campaign gets to decide which States and which voters are of significance?
Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:13:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did not say anything (2.00 / 1)

Of course...don't both to consider the dates actually in question. he has been running for president for longer than 2 months so we should look at longer than two months of evidence.

But this diary already did that and Obama pales in comparison...you just don't want to see it.


by americanincanada on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did not say anything (none / 0)

The Diary asserts that Obama missed important Senate business because of his candidacy. That's not disputable. But the fact remains that this is an expected and widespread phenomenon for people who are, ya know, running for President.

It's not scandalous or even newsworthy.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I sit with my head in my hands (2.00 / 0)

Sorry it depressed you. The purpose was to fire you up.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:05:13 PM EST

Re: I sit with my head in my hands (2.00 / 0)

Cool. Right there with you.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:35:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In the bag? (none / 0)

I've read so many posts by Clinton supporters who are convinced - without ever giving any reasoning - that she'll be unbeatable in the general and Obama would be hopeless.  So... if she's so unstoppable as a candidate, why is she losing to Obama?  She went into the race with a huge advantage in name recognition, experience and fundraising, a dominating lead in the polls, and now she's fighting for her life.

I don't say that to attack Clinton or boast about Obama's successes.  Just to ask what I think is a fair question - If she can't beat a relatively inexperienced well-financed media darling who's generally running a positive take-the-high-ground campaign, then why are you so convinced that she's a gimme to beat a very experienced well-financed media darling who's going to run an incredibly dirty campaign against her?  

So far, Obama's been able to dodge every smear, rumor and lie that's been thrown at him, whereas Clinton still has baggage going back 10 years.  You really think she's better-equipped to take on the GOP smear machine?  When the Republicans start slinging mud, Clinton's all to ready to start slinging back - which means the campaign becomes about smear tactics and not about issues, which means the Democrats are at a disadvantage.  Obama's consistently been able to rise above this stuff, and smears - whether they've come from the GOP or Clinton's camp - haven't hurt him.  Now, who's better equipped to win in November?  To paraphrase my own tagline, it doesn't matter if you're ready on Day One if you don't make it to Day One.


"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:24:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 3)

Did you notice John Kerry's last campaign.  It is not the Democrats that sling mud.  It is the Republicans.  Hillary isn't slinging mud against Obama.  It is the Republicans who are voting in caucuses and primaries where they can cross-over.  Democrats who have worked in the party for a long time are not the ones who have been voting for Sen. Obama.  It is the young kids with a crush on him and the Republicans who are voting for him now so they can vote against him in November.  


by macmcd on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 1)

The republicans are hijacking our primary while Howard Dean sits on his fat ass. Figuratively speaking because I have never seen his ass.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (none / 0)

Hijacking the primary? You sound like the Bush supporters when McCain won NH in 2000.

The stats don't bear your "hijack" theory out. When you have to take issue with the established rules (open primaries, caucuses) to make the argument that your candidate is the most electable, you undermine the argument by default. Fair or not, these systems are as arcane as many of the GE systems, and if you don't plan to win on their rules, you might as well not come to play at all.

If you're complaining, you're losing.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 1)

When the Obama campaign asks Republicans to be a Democrat for a day so that they can stop Hillary Clinton, yes that is hijacking our primary and our party.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (none / 0)

First of all, I've spoken to a few lifelong Republicans who say they'd vote for Obama in November because they're so fed up with their party, but would never vote for Hillary.  So this "hijacking our primaries" is nonsense.  The voters are voting for the candidate they like - God forbid.

Second, how come any time Hillary doesn't do well, there's always some conspiracy?  The Republicans are sabotaging our primaries.  The media has it in for her.  The same Democrats who made Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House are such incredible sexists they can't bear to vote for a woman.  Etc.  Etc.

If she does win, are we going to get four more years of this paranoia and persecution complex?  I'm certainly not the first person to say this: it seems like Senator Clinton is the kind of person who needs enemies.  She keeps talking about what a fighter she is, but if she had been willing to negotiate instead of fight back in '93, how many millions more people would have health care than do now?  And do we want four or eight more years of a President Clinton fighting against everyone?  When the other option is someone who can bring the other side around to his way of thinking?

Case in point.  Someone brought up a position that Obama took a lot of crap for, which was "if research bears out that school vouchers work, I'll consider them."  Now, that doesn't say he's for school vouchers - it says he is if there's evidence they work, which everyone knows there isn't.  But it's conciliatory.  If he says "I'm against school vouchers and I'll fight you to the death on this issue," then the right comes back with, "we're against Head Start and we'll fight you on that."  But if he says, "let's see if it works, and let's see if Head Start works," then both sides can agree.  Then the evidence shows that Head Start is massively successful, and school vouchers help a small percentage of (rich) kids and hurt everyone else.  So we do what the evidence tells us.  We get what we wanted in the first place, and avoid the big fight that Clinton seems to be so eager for.


"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:55:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Paranoia and persecution complex? (none / 0)

When I was talking about paranoia, I wasn't talking about anything you listed above and you know it.  I was talking about this idea that, if Hillary doesn't do well at the polls, it's because everyone's out to get her.  If people don't like her health care proposal, it because everyone's out to get her.  She seems to have this idea that she can craft proposals in secret, make unilateral decisions, and then bask in the gratitude of an adoring public.  That's not how government works.  It's about compromise, and sharing ideas, and working with everyone, and I don't think someone who's a "fighter" 24/7 is all that suited to govern effectively.

That's what I was talking about.  Now, do you honestly think that a President Obama would look at all of Bush's mistakes and "sweep it under the rug"?  Come on!


"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:16:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 3)

Because every time she fights back against Obama she is accused of either whining, race baiting, or both. That won't be a problem against McCain.


by georgiapeach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (none / 0)

You don't think so?  She'll be accused of a lot worse than whining if she's up against an opponent who refers to her as "that bitch".


"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 1)

Right. But she'll be accused of that by Republicans, not Democrats.


by georgiapeach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:44:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 0)

BRAVO


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 0)

Thank you fleaflicker.


by georgiapeach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:22:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (2.00 / 0)

My pleasure.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:34:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the bag? (none / 0)

But that was my whole point.  She isn't being attacked nonstop in the primary, but she's still losing ground.  What happens when she is being attacked nonstop?

My whole point was questioning the notion that we're "throwing away" the election by nominating Obama, as if Clinton's a lock to win and he's automatically going to lose.  I said at the beginning of the campaign that we had three really strong candidates, and if one of them rose to the top, I'd have a lot of confidence in their chances in November.  If Obama can beat Clinton, Edwards, Richardson, etc., then why exactly is he supposedly so hopeless against McCain?  And if Clinton can't beat Obama, then why is she so strong against McCain?  When Obama polls better against him that she does?

When I ask these questions, all I seem to get in response is some paranoid fantasy about how the media's setting him up for a fall, or how the Republicans are secretly voting in our primaries in huge numbers instead of their own (the numbers don't bear that out).


"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why is she losing to Obama? (2.00 / 3)

Well maybe it is:
  1. She is precluded from contrasting to him from the media. Every time she bring up a negative they either ignore it or attack her.
  2. When he attacks he is encouraged.
  3. Sexism is ok Racism is not. so media has a field day attacking her but really can't attack him (yet)
  4. Yes she has baggage, but is is known. And substantially disproven. (By the way how much is hers, and how much is actually Bill's) His will be brought to light. And have to be disproven during GE. Of course that probably can't be done in that short a time.

by del on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is she losing to Obama? (2.00 / 0)

Very good analysis.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:12:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is she losing to Obama? (2.00 / 1)

Excellent analysis. I think what bothers me the most is the sexism that has been directed at her by other women.


by georgiapeach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

You need to post this over at dObama.

I'm sure you'll get skewered, but hey!


by Dave B on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:23:47 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

I am not a registered user at that place. If you are and would like to post it over there you have my full permission. Just attribute it to me and all is well.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:32:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

I just posted my one diary for the day:

Hillary and NAFTA!

But if anyone else wants to post it up, I would love to see it there!

Thanks for your hard work.  I know writing and documenting a diary is a lot of work!


by Dave B on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:49:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Yes it is Dave. Thanks for understanding. And thanks for your hard work too.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 5)

I was flabbergasted when Obama admitted that he hadn't convened any meetings of his important subcommittee because he was too busy running for President. That's essentially what he said. And of course Russert and Williams gave him a pass.

Having the title means nothing if you haven't actually done the job.

But I guess we're just supposed to "hope" he knows what he's doing.


by OtherLisa on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:29:17 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 0)

I would rather vote than hope.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

EVERYONE is too busy running for president, not just Obama. McCain, Clinton, and the others who had been running - all of them miss important votes due to their campaigns. This is a non-controversial fact.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Yeah, non-controversial. Yup. Sure.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Ok - so either NO legislator should run for president, or any legislator can run for president even though it means missing votes. One or the other. Not one way for one candidate and a different way for another candidate.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:37:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

This is not about not being present for a vote.  It is about being the chair of an important committee, overseeing an area in which he campaigns frequently on - Afghanistan.  If he is so concerned about our war in Afghanistan and our mishandling of the region in general, especially in light of the recent elections in neighboring Pakistan, maybe he should have convened a hearing on it - AS IS HIS JOB - instead of just talking about what he plans to do there.

Is the world supposed to wait while he runs for President?  


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

We need to bombard Russert with e-mails. He has one more MTP before next Tuesday, and he shows up on a lot of the other MSNBC shows as well.


by georgiapeach on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 2)

Great research, thank you!

This does need to get out to the MSM and the so-called progressives although they will probably discount it as unfair to their golden boy. Can you get this on the HuffPo or ??


by bayareavoter on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:30:50 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

I have no idea about getting it on HuffPo. I don't write there. But if you or anyone else does you have my permission to get the word out. Just attribute the diary to me and go for it.

And Thanks!


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

Lets face it, none of the candidates for the nomination have great track records for voting.
Obama was taking on the Giant Inevitable Dominant Frontrunner, starting from scratch. He was like 4 touchdowns behind the day he announced his candidacy.
As a constituent of his, I want public financing like he has almost achieved by getting a million small donors. But we need it to actually be codified in congress and that would reduce the time requirement on candidates. He is a strong proponent of public financing and I think if he sweeps into the white house with a good majority in congress he might get it done.

If HRC comes back and secures the nomination, I will support her as well.

Bottom line here; support your candidate but please do not damage either candidate as either democrat is light years better than McCainBush.
HRC was reasonably positive last nite..please follow her lead.


by hawkjt on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:36:33 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 2)

What you call damage is what the majority of people call facts. If speaking the truth is harmful to your candidate then so be it. He is the one that stated he was too busy to hold a single meeting.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 2)

Amen.

Obama said it and it is our responsibility to call him on it.


by americanincanada on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:01:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

Have you looked into Clinton's attendance in Congress and similar issues on her side?

Or is it only Obama who has a responsibility to do the business of the nation?


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:28:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy (2.00 / 0)

Why thank you so very much. You are right about the mind blowing stuff. Best natural high I've found.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:50:18 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy (2.00 / 2)

The thing is, Obama keeps talking about how we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan.  Well, NATO Europe has Afghanistan.  How could he have not held a single meeting.

My wife and I caught it.  She's an Obama supporter and she said, why did he take the position if he was too busy?  I said, well, he wanted it on his resume!  She didn't look happy...


by Dave B on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:54:51 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy (2.00 / 1)

It was an amazing admission. Hillary tried to press it. But the "moderators" didn't. I guess it didn't fit into their script.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy (2.00 / 3)

Obama wants many things on his resume. There is a pattern in his actions. Do a little bit and then jump for the next thing saying he look i did this. But never continue to do one thing for long. That fact is lost on many of his supporters.

He is not a good GE candidate due to his hypocrisy. But alas, you cant talk logic with the followers of Pied Piper, can you?


by Sandeep on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:10:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

Fleaflicker join us at hillarysvoice


by seattlegonz on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:03:15 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 0)

I might just do that.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

FleaFlicker, post this on the blog at HillaryClinton.com. Say this is your research piece which you want to share with the campaign strategists.


by Sandeep on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:11:21 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Thanks. I will attempt to do that.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

I would suggest that Hillary supporters do not want to press this issue. I guaratnee her attendance in the Senate hasn't been exactly golden either.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:26:45 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 2)

Man (or woman), I feel ashamed to call you a fellow Democrat. What a level of hypocrisy! I guess you have no morals.

Just because Hillary missed few votes, she shouldn't highlight what a slacker Obama is? Everyone needs to know he is a talker , not a doer with examples. Though for someone like you, it doesnt matter if someone is a doer or not.

America is on a path to become a 3rd world country if we dont act. I guess for you, that is ok as long as we can slack our time away. Politics of Hope, what an example you are setting.


by Sandeep on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

It's not just the missed votes. It is what he claims and what he actually does. And all the lies.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:46:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

For daring to question Hillary's Senate attendance I have no morals and make you ashamed?

You are easy to shame if that is the case. Thank you for the personal attack.

I was only pointing out that, as an issue, this is a non-winner. It won't be a winner for Hillary now and it won't be a winner for McCain in the fall. All it really does it outline the campaign problems that Senators face when they run for President.

Obama pointed this out with his line in the debate "she voted for it but hoped it wouldn't pass. Thats generally not a good way to defeat legislation" (or  words to that effect.)

I am not excusing the fact that Obama took a job he didn't have the time or the inclination to do I am merely pointing out that this issue is a non-starter.

The fact that you would personally attack me for doing so shows how blinded by rage and hatred you have become. I guess I should just add you to the list of people I can't take seriously.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:50:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Hillary is the chair of the subcommittee of Superfund and Environmental Health.  Last year she managed to hold 3 hearings:

October 17, 2007 - Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health hearing entitled, "Oversight Hearing on the Federal Superfund Program's Activities to Protect Public Health."

July 25, 2007 - Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health hearing entitled, "Oversight of the EPA's Environmental Justice Programs."

June 20, 2007 - Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health hearing entitled, "EPA's Response to 9-11 and Lessons Learned for Future Emergency Preparedness."

Obama is the chair of Subcommittee on European Affairs.  He has held 0 hearings since becoming chair in 2007.


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Just looking at the vote tallies in the bills that Obama missed, it seems like he wasn't going to be a critical swing vote.  You still need to show up to work, hell I do it every single day.  It is also poor form to blame it on a presidential campaign, even though that was obviously the reason he missed these votes.

Still, I believe the Clinton campaign brought this up as early as pre-Iowa with the "present-vote-gate" from the Illinois State Senate.  If it was so lethal, you think it would have grown some legs way back then.

I'm not defending Obama in missing these votes, but the lethality of these charges seems a little exaggerated to me.


by the mollusk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:40:01 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

The lethality is dependant on how media plays it. If you play it for 10 days as a negative story, it will become lethal.

Though that shows the IQ of American voters. Pre-Iowa, it was the phase of painting Hillary as cunning, divisive and Obama as Messiah. That's when many of the Obama supporters (who now talk of unity) were out there fanning anger and disrespect for Hillary.

I wish fellow Democrats can see thru this resume building initiative and being a real slacker in reality.


by Sandeep on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:00:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Slacker is Right!


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

I definitely agree that the media play is the issue here.  But that's what Obama has done so well up to this point:  turned what seemed like a negative story into a liability for those who brought it up.  

Remember plagarism?  Remember the anti-patriot who wouldn't sing the National Anthem?  Remember that kindergartener who wanted to be president?  Remember that teenager who may have used cocaine?  Remember the black guy that couldn't get any Latinos to vote for him?  Remember how ashamed Michelle Obama was of her country?  Remember how Rezko was going to sink the campaign?  Remember the ties to the '60s radicals?  Remember how Louis Farrakhan really doesn't like Jewish people?  

These all seem silly now, and some of them aren't even a fortnight old yet.  And somehow, the accusers came off looking worse than Obama.  That has been one of the unexpected strengths of his campaign.


by the mollusk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Will someone do an equivalent post for Hillary?


by poserM on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:29:18 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I wouldn't say that if I were you; I basically made the same point a little upward in the thread and got verbally murdered for it.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Based on GovTrack, links below, I've calculated that Obama voted in 60% of Senate roll call votes compared to 72% for Clinton between 1/1/2007 and 2/27/2008

However, if you look only at 2007, Obama voted in 72% compared to Clinton's 77%

And in 2008, it's Obama voting in 33% compared to Hillary's 9%. This probably suggests that the underdog votes less. i.e. in 2007 when Obama was behind, he spent less time in the senate. In 2008 when Hillary is trailing Obama, she's spend a lot less time there than Obama.

Here are the links. You can count them yourself.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes.xp d?year=2008&person=400629
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes.xp d?year=2008&person=300022


by poserM on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:49:24 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Oops! make Obama's 2007 62%. NOT 72%


by poserM on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Comparison including McCain

Jan. 2007 - Feb 2008
Obama    60%
Clinton  72%
McCain   44%

Jan. 2007 - Dec. 2007
Obama    62%
Clinton  77%
McCain   44%

Jan 2008 - Feb 2008
Obama    33%
Clinton   9%
McCain   39%

In other words, Where has McCain been?????


by poserM on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

It's obvious, this attack has no legs.  All of the presidential candidates are vulnerable to it.  It's just cynical to try to push it.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Too Little Too Late (none / 0)

Fleaflicker, Sandeep et al. Look, it's over. Why the HRC campaign couldn't have come up with this in December instead of spluring on Mark Penn will be part of the HRC 2008 obituaries.  HRC needed to knock him out or have him fumble in the debate yesterday. She tried and failed. That's the media narrative which means that nothing changed.

On March 5 the general election will begin with Obama vs. McCain after HRC either graciously bows out or gets an Al Gore/Nancy Pelosi/Harry Reid/Ed Rendell reality0check. . In the end, it's never about "experience" or substantive achievement on a resume -- it's about likability and trust.(If it were, we'd be debating about Biden vs. Richardson) The primary voters have decided that Obama is preferable to Hillary.

Feb 4 will result in HRC wins in OH & RI; BO wins in TX & VT and maybe a net HRC delegate pickup of 10 delegates (at the most). The post is interesting and will be useful material for the McCain campaign, the RNC, and the Hannity/Limbaugh/Ingraham axis of evil.


by chatters71 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:49:31 PM EST

Re: Too Little Too Late (none / 0)

Only quitters lose.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Too Little Too Late (none / 0)

Well gee, I thought it was about who would be best for the country.  Silly me.  But if it's about likability, I don't like him.  He is phony to the core.  I will never vote for him.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:15:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Too Little Too Late (none / 0)

Reported in December.  If only people did their research before jumping on the bandwagon.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/200 7/12/29/obama_europe/

Also, it is not wise for Obama to push this because Clinton has been active on her committee even though she was running for President (see my comment above).


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the problem with his answer (2.00 / 1)

It was just incredibly dumb.  Now in the general he's going to have to backtrack from it when McCain throws it at him.  

Forget the missed votes that weren't close.  Any intelligent being can understand that.  But to have the "audacity" to say "I couldn't perform the job I was being paid to do because I was too busy campaigning"?  It's one of the stupidest remarks I've ever heard uttered in the middle of a race.

Not only will McCain have a ball with it down the road, but it speaks to his political judgement.  There are other honest ways to answer that question like "had I seen the need for a sub-committee meeting I would have called one because I was closely monitoring the scope of my responsibilities" or something to that effect.

But essentially what he said was "I blew off the appointment because, sheesh, I had to CAMPAIGN, ya know?"

So, like, um, what can we expect from President Obama in 2011 and 2012?  Will he be too busy campaigning to worry about his job?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:51:57 PM EST

Obama Solution (none / 0)

Look, Obama will take the time in June to do 2 days of made-for-TV Afghanistan hearings on his NATO subcommittee. That's the advantage of having this thing wrapped up next week so that he can try and score some political points and defang these charges from McCain.

Guys, think constructively.

There are two candidates who want to end the war (HRC and BO) and one who wants to it to go indefinitely. That's what it comes down.


by chatters71 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:58:49 PM EST

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

Well, two days of phony hearings just for show, while ignoring the real needs of people who are right now suffering or dying for their country, would be very much in keeping with the kind of man he is.  And if this kind of man runs against McCain, he will be shredded.  

Why would it be "constructive" to help a person like that?


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

Um, and what are the hearings Hillary has been holding during the campaign?

And given the fact that the last 7 years worth of hearings has changed NOTHING in Afghanistan or Iraq, aren't you misplacing your rancor over the needs of our suffering and dying soldiers?

Seriously, Obama v. McCain is over quick, and McCain isn't the winner. The loathing for Bush is insurmountable. He's not had majority support since 04, and has been in the 30s since 05. That's deep and unmoving hatred for a President they believe has failed them completely.

Don't forget, no matter who the Dems field, this election will be about George Bush's America. McCain will fight that, but he'll fail, because America doesn't just want to see Bush gone -- if the polls and new voters and turnout so far is to be believed, they want Bush to fully understand why they want him gone.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (2.00 / 1)

Well, "um", go back and read the diary.  It's not about hearings, it's about showing up for work and accomplishing something.  And that does change things.  Veterans get their bonuses.  They get care close to home...  

Hillary has done that.  Barack has not.

Are you even sincere?  Or are you just playing a game here?

You are wasting my time.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

Hillary hasn't been out campaigning?

Heck if you look at the numbers for January-February '08 (posted above) Obama shows up 33% of the time (which is awful) and Hillary shows up 8% of the time which is well, ALSO awful.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:54:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

It is about real change. Not change people hope for. Accomplishing things IS change.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:21:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

She was, um, holding these, as I stated earlier (up thread):

Hillary is the chair of the subcommittee of Superfund and Environmental Health.  Last year she managed to hold 3 hearings:

October 17, 2007 - Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health hearing entitled, "Oversight Hearing on the Federal Superfund Program's Activities to Protect Public Health."

July 25, 2007 - Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health hearing entitled, "Oversight of the EPA's Environmental Justice Programs."

June 20, 2007 - Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health hearing entitled, "EPA's Response to 9-11 and Lessons Learned for Future Emergency Preparedness."


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

Thanks PlainWords. I just reupped for $200 to Obama '08.


by chatters71 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

Fine.  When you get to the statutory maximum donation, we'll be equal.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

"My wallet is bigger than your wallet."

LOL


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

Yep.  And I just gave $250 to a 527 that's buying ads in Ohio.  Want to keep playing?


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Solution (none / 0)

LOL

Good for you... I could honestly care less how much money you give out. It would have more of an effect if you did something actually useful with it but whatever.  


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:24:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

You know, when Obama said that, about passing legislation to help veterans, I remembered his false statement after Iowa, when he said he passed a bill to make nuclear plants report accidents.  Actually, he introduced it, then, at the behest of the nuclear industry, watered it down to the point where the plants would NOT have to report accidents, and then it did not pass anyway.

So when he pulled it again last night, I waited for someone to question him.  Nothing.  This country no longer has journalism.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:08:32 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

And they also neglected to point out the large donations he's received via Excelon, who strangely benefited from his watered down bill.

New Politics, indeed.


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:16:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

First question: Are these quotes from a source? If so, can you post a link? Thanks.

Obviously I support Hillary, so I'm sympathetic to a lot of your arguments. I agree that not having a single committee hearing is pretty egregious and doesn't speak well to his seriousness in dealing with the nuts and bolts of governing. I know that Hillary's subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health held three hearings in 2007. I wonder what Biden and Dodd did while they were running.

If I were to play devil's advocate, however, I'd want to know things such as--well, a lot of hearings, though important, are sparsely attended. (For example, I think only two Republicans showed up to the Valerie Plame House testimony, though that was probably more political.) It'd be good to know if he was the only one who was missing, or how many other committee members were there.


by OrangeFur on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:10:24 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

If I left out sources I will provide the links. I've been working to get Hillary elected today and haven't had tons of free time. I will see if I can source what you request this evening.

If you could tell me which quotes you feel haven't been sourced that would help.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

I just meant the block quotes. If that's your text that you wanted to emphasize, that's great. If they're from some longer article, I just wanted to go read the whole thing.

Great work.


by OrangeFur on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Here ya go:

http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/news/stat ements/record.cfm?id=277007


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:26:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Remember, sooner or later you have to hit that final stage of Clinton Grief -- Acceptance. And then, likely, you'll get over whatever Obamaphobia or Obamaphenia or whatever Obamaconjuction you're dealing with and remember that the democracy sucks sometimes, but Republicans suck more, and Obama at his worst is better than Bush on days that end in "Y." Since McCain is Bush with more ego, let's start concentrating our bile thataways...


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:19:04 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Think so?  I'm one Democrat who has voted with the party for 40 years, but that's over now.  I won't be voting for Obama if he is the nominee.  Whether I will vote for McCain is still to be determined.  It depends on 1) whether HRC gets the nomination, or, if she doesn't, 2) who McCain's running mate is.  If he picks someone like Christine Todd Whitman, a lot of women will support the ticket.

Maybe you are the one who should start accepting.  Your failure to look at the facts is going to hurt you in the end.  I wouldn't put a lot of faith in those polls you're seeing now.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

The fact that you would vote for 100 year Johnny speaks to what a good Democrat you really are. Congratulations on abandoning us. Good luck with your GOP pals.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:57:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

You did it to yourself.  Whine if you want.

And by the way, the two-party system is not in the Constitution.  In fact, it's nothing like the founders intended.  If it collapses and we have multiple parties where coalitions always have to be formed, that would be a good thing.

You shouldn't let the two corrupt corporate-owned parties fool you into thinking they have the best interests of the country in mind.  Most ex-legislators go on to become lobbyists.  Even the Democrats.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Great posts! It's good to see people standing up for what they believe in and not towing the party line. And you couldn't be more right about lobbyists. Lobbyists are like lawyers for the legislative branch, and anyone who has worked in government knows they are an ESSENTIAL part of the process. Is Obama gonna throw the lobbyists out of that represent unions, the environment, gun-control, or the public interest. Lobbysists are not bad things people, and Obama knows this. If he had quite politics like he wanted to back in 2000, you know what he would be doing? HE WOULD BE LOBBYING IN SPRINGFIELD, GUARANTEED!!

About the two party system, it is not written into the Constitution, but it was intended to be this way. The founding fathers implicity created the two party system through the construction of the three branches of government, and most importantly, the electroal college. Political theorists have been studying this for some time and most are in agreement that muli-party systems have been attempted before, failed, will be attempted again, and will fail again. The two party system is the most efficient way to govern, and that is important in a system designed to be slow and unproductive.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I beg to differ.  There are other countries with multi-party systems that work quite well.  Look at Europe.  We could do it too.  The difficult part is the transition.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I understand your point, but those Euro systems ore not based on a Constitution that works on federalsim and republicansim (notice the small "r"). If we were to have a multi-party system that really worked efficiently, we would need to overhaul the entire framework of our three branches of government and their relationship to state and local governments, a near impossibe challenge. If it ever was done, it would not look like the USA of today. It would look much more like the EU and I don't think that will happen.

Also, we wouldn't be having an election for President right now. We would be electing parties, who would then elect a PM. I like voting for the individual, not the party.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:42:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

The two party system was NOT created through the constitution of the three branches of government.

Where do you get this stuff?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Years of training as a political scientist. If you look at my post, it says IMPLICITY created.

Do you know what that means?

Look at the political history of the US. How many three party governments have we had?

How many of them failed?

What always comes back after the new party dies off? -- The two party system

All of this doesn't happen by accident. Political theorists hae spent thousands of pages on this topic. I suggest you read one some time.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Yes, I know what IMPLICITLY means. It means you are yelling the word implicitly at me.

The two party system has clear advantages as it is us against them. But the Greens have been around a long time now and they aren't going away. They may not have won any Presidential contests but they are beginning to make some headway in local elections.

I am a Democrat and have no problem with the two party system. But I am also not opposed to any other party joining in. There would be nothing wrong with it at all. In my humble opinion.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

LOL. Seriously, that was funny.

Sorry for the caps, but I get this feeling some people don't read the whole post so I feel the need to yell sometimes.

I agree there is nothing wrong with a 3rd party, and the greens have made sme inroads but are nowhere near a viable national party. My argument is not that they are bad or good: it is that three parties do not survive in our system of government, and some academics believe it was intentionally designed that way.

If the Greens do make a run at real national power, the three parties might co-exist for two or three election cycles and then one will be forced out. Thats my argument: that only two parties can co-exist for long periods of time in our form of federal government.

Note: none of that applies to the local or state level. Greens are making inroads there.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:35:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

If the Greens continue to make inroads locally they will eventually become a viable national entity. I don't see it happening for at least a decade but it is remotely possible. And I agree with you that the two party system is so deeply entrenched that a viable 3rd party is very difficult to gain ground. How, for instance would they divide up the Senate and House of Representatives? It would require some major remodeling. Phrases like "My distinguished friend on the other side of the aisle" would need further clarification.

I long for the day when the Greens or any other viable 3rd party emerges. It will force the other two parties to actually pay attention to the needs of the American people because everyone will be competing for the center where things get done.

I am a life long Democrat but I support many of the goals of the Green Party. If those goals were being addressed within the Democratic Party the Greens would not exist.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:54:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I am not whining. I am pointing out that you are a.) a sore loser and b.) not a good Democrat.

And yes many lawmakers do go on to become lobbyists. Personally, I love how we throw that word around like it is an evil evil word. There are good lobbyists and bad lobbyists just like their are good law makers and bad lawmakers. Just like their are good democrats and Democrats who abandon the party because they didn't get their way.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:22:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

This is what always happens when you out-argue an Obamaphile.  First, they appeal to your party loyalty (as if that should come ahead of your loyalty to your country, or the truth).  Then they call you a name.

We're done here.


by PlainWords on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

LOL.
Yep. You really out argued me... I just couldn't match up with your socratic wit.

Good luck with the other Republicans!


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:40:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 1)

Sore winners are much worse and much more annoying than sore losers.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:43:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Excellent point.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I am not whining. I am pointing out that you are a.) a sore loser and b.) not a good Democrat.

Those comments were unnecessary and not very cool.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I guess we will all just have to live with that.

If I were on here saying I would vote for McCain over Hillary I would be getting heckled off this site and everyone knows it.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:08:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Bush and McCain hate each other and McCain went after Bush every time he got a chance!

Independents (who matter) do not think that and neither to "mainstream Democrats" (read: "flyover state" Democrats). There is a reason the media liked him from 2000-2008: because he took on Bush. The media and the people aren't forgeting that, no matter how hard you try to spin.

You might think the "3rd Bush term" line works, but if that is so, why has McCain moved up in the polls despite The One, Clinton, and the media constantly calling him that.

That dog ain't gonna hunt.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Junior Senator (none / 0)

NO ONE is going to pay attention to this because everyone understands the obvious fact that junior senators who chair a SUB-Committee don't mean squat!

The MOST effective way for him to bring attention to the issue is by running for and winning election to the presidency.


by mikelewis68 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:38:06 PM EST

Re: Junior Senator (none / 0)

If he has, in your words, "done squat" as a Junior Senator, what makes you so sure he'll do more as a President?  Doesn't it logically follow that you should prove your worth on your current job BEFORE getting a promotion?


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:40:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Junior Senator (none / 0)

Don't try to talk logic with one of these Obamabots. They will look at the screen, go duhh, and start hurling insults. It's not worth it, and unfortunalty, they won't undertsand.

The MTV candidate and the MTV generation collide to create a rabid two headed monster, spewing insults and downright lies on Internet and TV alike.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:47:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

percent of senate roll call votes attended by candidate.

   Jan. 2007 - Feb 2008
    Obama    60%
    Clinton  72%
    McCain   44%

   Jan. 2007 - Dec. 2007
    Obama    62%
    Clinton  77%
    McCain   44%

   Jan 2008 - Feb 2008
    Obama    33%
    Clinton   9%
    McCain   39%


by poserM on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:54:11 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

When folks get a chance...visit diaries that are not about this Primary.


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:22:42 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (2.00 / 0)

I am a Republican (gasp) and I just wanted to weigh in on this. I proudly opposed President Bush in both primaries and did not vote for him in the general, so I can speak with some experience.

If you have serious reservations about your candidate DO NOT vote for him/her in the GE. Many people did in my party and we got Bush (bad) instead of Gore (not as bad). This country needs citizens who vote issues and policy, not by identity or party affiliation.

There are too many similarities about Bush and Obama and we CAN NOT go down that road again!! I have found myself in a strange position this election cycle: I have been defending Hillary non-stop lately.

Obama's tactics are some of the most reprehensible and dishonest tactics I have witnessed on the national scene (and yes, swift boat ads were dishonest). I do see it every day in the murky waters that are Illinois politics though, which shouldn't surprise anyone, considering where Obama learned his craft.

And that is what makes Obama worse than Bush. Say what you will about him, but Bush never PRETENDED to be an agent of change, to "end business as usual in Washington." No. He knew he was going to continue shady DC politics and play them.

Obama, on the other hand, is downright lying, saying he will change business as usual in Washington while using horribly devisive and dishonest tactics. He will use them in Washington too, and soon afer his corronation, we will find out that he is nothing but Bush II (or is that Bush III). If you really have doubts about Obama, vote Green (I did in 2000), Nader, a fringe party, or write Hillary in. But do not enable the candidate you can't stand. I never will regret my votes from 2000 and 2004!

In the interests of full disclosure, I will be voting for McCain in the GE. I personally think he has unmatched integrity and experience compared to the other candidates. If Romney had made it, I would be rehearsing 2000 and 2004 all over again, or maybe even voting for Hill (I can't believe I just wrote that).

However, I really wish Hillary would win, because I would be MUCH, MUCH more comftorable with Hillary at the reigns. Obama's inexperience, judgment (Rezko, Ayers, his pastor), and dishonesty (again, Rezko, Ayers, this campaign, promising not run for President, ect, ect, ect) all scare the living daylights out of me. I'm not far off from him on most policy, but this guy is crooked and we cannot have that in the White House.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:57:43 PM EST

Just Nonsense (none / 0)

Bush was a dimwit; Obama was a Constitutional law professor  -- they are the same ?

How anyone can claim that HRC is more honest or trustworthy is beyond reason.

Rezko vs. Keating Five, Vicki Iseman & favors for the telecom lobby, and Straight Talk Lobbist Express -- I would love that ethics matchup in November.


by chatters71 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just Nonsense (2.00 / 1)

Okay. Where do I start?

(1) I'm from Illinois and I knew of State Senator Obama much before he was annointed savior of mankind. I stood in -20 degree weather and watched his announcement speech and he lost my vote through his dishonest and mean spirited campaign.

(2) Rezko is a fresh story. He starts trial next week and the case involves the loose web that is dirty Chicago politics. Trust me, the Senator is going thave skeletons throwing a coming out party in the next few weeks.

(3) Keating Five is 20 years old, he was absolved of any wrongdoing, and he has two great character witnesses in Sen. John Glenn (D) and Bob Bennant (D). Go read about that "scandal" and you'll find the only reason he was included in the charges is because the Democrats in charge did not want three crooked as sin Dem Senators sitting at the hearing alone, so they brought in two of the most respected members in the Senate to make it look like anyone can get involved in the poo (Sen. Glenn and Sen. McCain).

(4) That bs NYT article about Iseman seems to have helped, b/c now he is leading Obambi in the polls. Don't get your news from the NYT. The Old Grey Lady is a rag.

(5) Obambi has numerous lobbyists working on his campaign and he has taken tons of cash from lobbyists. He is playing this game with you by saying he's not taking money from registered Washington lobbyists but he takes money from people who don't lobby there enough for that title. He takes $ from state level lobbysists and lots of "real" lobbyists and PACs have given to his HopeFund PAC which laid the groundwork for this campaign. Yah, Sen. Savior had an evil PAC and he was and still is speading evil, dirty money all around the country to elect Dems.

(6) Obama is playing you and all of his other supporters like a fiddle  


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 10:00:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running (none / 0)

Fleaflicker, this is a great post.  Keep up the good work.  


by findthesource on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:36:46 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running (none / 0)

Thank you sincerely.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Things that could have been done... (2.00 / 1)

As I posted on another thread, the House Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Europe has held nine hearings since the Democrats took over.

The House Foreign Relations Committee Subcommittee on Europe held nine hearings in 2007.

http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/testimon y.asp?congress=&mo=&day=&yea r=&title=&committee=4&submit .x=30&submit.y=10

Among the topics discussed were

- U.S./Greek relations

  • Whether the US/EU need a missile defense system
  • Expanding visa waiver programs
  • The impact of extraordinary rendition on transatlantic relations

Does anyone want to argue that these aren't important topics? The last one seems like a big one to me.


by OrangeFur on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:37:05 PM EST

Re: Things that could have been done... (2.00 / 1)

They are all very important topics, but no more so than NATO's mission in Afghanistan that is floundering due to lack of Euro support. Maybe if Obama used that undying wit and charm on Euro leaders and policymakers, he could get some resources from NATO by holding hearings on the matter and free up some of our military assets. It is stretched to hin, right Sen? Well than get off your high and mighty ass and do something about. You are the Chair of the Subcommittee for piss sake.

I do believe NATO is under the banner of "European Affairs" and I do believe Obama says we need to get of Iraq so we can win Afghanistan. Well, Senator, why not help win the war in Afghanistan by pulling in NATO support. That is what you've wanted along, right?

But that would get away from his real goal: winning. Why should something like US-EU relations or our mission in Afghanistan come before that? After all, this IS all about you, isn't Senator? You don't need to address these issues because it would (1) highlight your complete lack of understanding about foreign policy and (2) actualy make you take a policy stand on something (gasp).

His campaign makes me sick and showcases everything that is wrong with politics in this country. I don't know if anyone knows who Gov. Blagojevich is (IL). He got elected on the same slick style, rhetoric, and empty policy proposals as Obama. They even share Axelrod (creepy).

Now IL is in deep, deep financial trouble, everyone in government (which is ran entirely by Ds) HATES him and he'll be in prison within five years. "The One" should be changed to Blagobama beaucse they are nearly identical in policy, style, and substance. That is a SCARY thought.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:59:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

"Hmmm... we have soldiers dying in Afghanistan..."

There are a LOT more of our soldiers and innocent civilians in general dying in Iraq than Afghanistan.

Hillary - Thanks for enabling Bush's illegal invasion of that country. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people's blood is on your hands as well as Bush's.

The fact that you FINALLY stated in last nights debate that you wish you could take that vote back doesn't change that fact.

A President should have the FORESIGHT to avoid disasters, like Obama has proven he has. Hillary's HINDSIGHT has cost the US too much in too many ways, including lives.


*VOTE DEMOCRAT! - HRC or BHO* Obama '08 - Full of reason / Hillary '08 - Full of treason (Gallup Poll, March 26 2008) / McCain '08 - Diaper's full of Bushit.
by VT COnQuest on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:54:57 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Not anymore. The attacks are now coming in Afghanistan and we are seeing more troop deaths there than Iraq now.

People don't want to admit it, but the surge is working and Al-Quada is moving back into Afghanistan.

Search out some facts and you'll find the truth, if your not too afraid to see it.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Doesn't matter.

NONE of this would be happenning if the focus would have remained on Afghanistan and Bush wouldn't have been enabled by political positioning opportunists like Hillary to go into Iraq.


*VOTE DEMOCRAT! - HRC or BHO* Obama '08 - Full of reason / Hillary '08 - Full of treason (Gallup Poll, March 26 2008) / McCain '08 - Diaper's full of Bushit.
by VT COnQuest on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:13:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Can't argue with that.

But Afghanistan is the problem, has been for some months now, and Iraq is getting much better.

Harry Reid (today or yesteday) said civil war is raging in Iraq. I gues he hasn't watched the news, read a paper, or been to Iraq for some time now. Dems need to drop Iraq because it is only goingto work in McCain's favor from now on.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Good point.


*VOTE DEMOCRAT! - HRC or BHO* Obama '08 - Full of reason / Hillary '08 - Full of treason (Gallup Poll, March 26 2008) / McCain '08 - Diaper's full of Bushit.
by VT COnQuest on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

She's been stating this long before last night.

Also, let's share the responsibility around, shall we?  She wasn't the only one who voted for this (and I actually don't grudge her judgment given the context - as a Senator from NY in 2002).  

Also, since we are laying responsibility here, why not also include Obama who has voted EXACTLY the same as Clinton since entering the Senate.

Obama, from last night (paraphrase): It wasn't just some speech, it was an important speech in a highly contested run for the US SENATE.

Really Senator?  Because the speech was given in 2002, 2 years before you entered the Senate.  You have also since gone on record and agreed with your colleagues who voted for the war.  That is, until you began running for President.


by cloudy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:45:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I thought the same thing last night. And by the Senators own account, he didn't think he would win the primary, but he figured it woud get him good statewide exposure for a gubernatorial run. At that point, Illinois didn't have primaries until mid-March of 2006, so to say he was campaigning is HIGHLY disengenuous.

No, I I'll just say it: HE LIED HIS ASS OFF.

What's one more lie on the way to the White House, right?

Promises to not run for president, to use public campaign finance, to not take money from lobbyists or have them work in your campaign: ALL LIES.

When will the press call him on this?

Oh, and one more, you lied that the committee was created "when I began this campaign". Not true. It was formed in January 2007 and you announced in February 2007. I was there Senator on that -20 degree morning and you lost my vote along the way.

I hope at least 50% of this country are not as stupid as he tinks we are.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:00:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More comparisons... (2.00 / 1)

I went and looked at the list of hearings of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from the 109th Congress (2005-2006), when it was under Republican control:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senat e/senate11sh109.html

Of these, I found at least three that were held by the European Affairs Subcommittee (as I didn't look at all of them, there may be some more).

The Lifting of the EU Arms Embargo on China, March 16, 2005

U.S.-E.U. Regulatory Cooperation on Emerging Technologies, May 11, 2005

Islamist Extremism in Europe, April 5, 2006

Back then the subcommittee was chaired by that known intellectual giant and longtime student of foreign policy, Sen. George Allen. Allen was up for re-election and in the fight of his political life.

Who would have thought that the subcommittee worked harder under George Allen than Barack Obama?


by OrangeFur on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:05:42 PM EST

Re: More comparisons... (none / 0)

"Of these, I found at least three that were held by the European Affairs Subcommittee "

Cool.  Maybe Hillary can put together an ad slamming Obama for the shortcomings of the European Affairs Subcommittee.  

And then Obama can put together an ad ripping her a new one on NAFTA.  And we'll see which one people care about.


by davey jones on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More comparisons... (none / 0)

I am almost speechless. This is so absurd that it has me totally freaked out. Wow!


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:43:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

The Senate is in session right now.  And it isn't in Texas or Ohio.  Where's Hillary?

In Texas or Ohio, just like Obama (and McCain, for that matter).  See, the problem with all of Hillary's memes is that they boil down to "Obama sucks as much as I do."  Hard to get people to vote for you that way.  Here's a hint for the next election: mix in a positive message now and then.  It might help.


by davey jones on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:06:12 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

Read the post before yours. The votes do not matter near as much as committee hearings. The votes are pre-determined, and if Reid or McConnell needed any of the three, he would get them back.

However, a committee CANNOT convene without it's chair. And as you can see, very important issues are discussed and debated in these hearings. There is no excuse to go an entire year without havig a meeting, especially in the times we are in now. If he didn't want it, he shouldn't have accepted it so the US Senate can discuss issues about European Affairs in committee.

His hypocrisy on this is astounding. He says we need NATO and Euro allies in Afghanistan. The get off your duff and do something about it. You chair the damn committee for crying out loud. As least admit he's a hypocryte!!!

This is just one example of his complete lack of leadership, expereince, and integrity. This whole election is not about what is good for the US. It is what is good for Obama, and that scares me.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:19:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

I see, so when Hillary doesn't show up because she's running for president, its no big deal, and when Obama doesn't show up because he's running for president, its a travesty.  Got it.  The distinction lies in the "vital" oversight function of some subcommittee on Europe.  Right.  


by davey jones on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President (none / 0)

No. when they don't show up for votes (all three of them), it's not the biggest deal in the world.

But if you are going to accept a chairmanship of a subcommittee (especially on the Foreign Policy committee) then you better covene a meeting of that body beause NO ONE ELSE CAN.

Other Senators can vote and advance the business of the people. These three are not needed for that. But for the US Senate to discuss Euro Afairs in committee (which is where substantial discussion and business takes place), The One must convene that committee.

If he knew he was running for President, HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE ACCEPTED THAT POSITION. He only wanted it to give him "experience". It highlights his contempt for the American people when they get in his way to glory.

That Biden gave it to him surprises me. It is an important committee!! Our European allies have already expessed shock and dissapointment over this fact in several editorials in overseas paper that got NO coverage here (which is also shocking).

   


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Action needed, not pretty words. (none / 0)

Exposed for being a fraud is never a pleasant thing. He has been busy telling the American people how he feels---Spare me, Obama.  Just spare me the bullshit, and do your damn job.


by Scotch on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:31:57 PM EST

Re: Action needed, not pretty words. (none / 0)

Thanks Scotch! And believe me, I've said that more than a few times. ;-}


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:19:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Action needed, not pretty words. (none / 0)

Outstanding!! Great line.

Hope it unravels quickly.


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President -Updated (none / 0)

"Russ Feingold has proposed legislation titled: A bill to provide for the safe redeployment of United States troops from Iraq. The bill has 15 co-sponsors listed below. One name notably absent from this proposed bill is none other than Senator Barack I Was Too Busy Running for President Obama."

Now, you take a bill that Obama has stated that he's not sure he supports BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PROVIDE A DATE CERTAIN TIMELINE FOR THE WITHDRAWAL OF US TROOPS and you characterize his failure to co-sponsor as "too busy running for president."  Does Hillary have anything other than gratuitous smears?  Because if she does, I sure haven't seen it.


by davey jones on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:52:39 PM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President -Updated (none / 0)

Well isn't that just sweet of you. Russ Feingold is the one that is offering this bill. A guy that really was against this war from the start. A Senator that really has been against it all along.

I didn't mention anywhere WHY Senator Obama isn't supporting it. Thank you for your opinion of what Senator Obama thinks. If it is more than an opinion would you please provide a link to the source of the information?

And if the reason you state is accurate, just why is it that Senator Obama has not offered a date specific bill if that is his objection to this? And hasn't he ever of amendments?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:16:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's this thread about? (none / 0)

Sorry, I got here late and only saw the title--Is this about a diary about why Clinton hasn't released her tax returns?


by maxlongstreet on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:35:35 PM EST

Re: What's this thread about? (none / 0)

What a stupid comment.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:14:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's this thread about? (none / 0)

Is your post about how Senator Obama hasn't released his earmarks from 2005 and 2006? :)


by HillaryKnight08 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought this diary was going to be about how (none / 0)

Hillary is too busy running for President to release her tax returns.


by SleepingWillow on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:24:43 PM EST

Re: I thought this diary was going to be about how (none / 0)

And just exactly what is so important about Hillary releasing her tax forms? My tax forms are my personal property and they are none of your business. Obama's tax forms are none of my business and neither are Hillary's tax forms.

Obama released his tax forms and then attempted to make it seem suspect that Hillary had not released hers. This is an old political game of gotcha. There is absolutely no substance to any of it. If you have been around more than a few years you would realize that all desperate and disreputable politicians use the same ploy. "I did it, why didn't she. She must be hiding something. There is something fishy going on here."


by Fleaflicker on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 09:03:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And Hillary is too busy running (none / 0)

for President to release her tax returns... an even bigger potential issue.


by SleepingWillow on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:26:00 PM EST

Who is Russ Feingold endorsing ? (none / 0)

Obama-Webb 2008


by chatters71 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:31:34 PM EST

Re: Who is Russ Feingold endorsing ? (none / 0)

You don't need a women to shore up some of the base?

Obama and his stupid supporters have really pissed off the feminists in the party. If he does not choose a women, he is toast against McCain, who wll probably either choose a women, or an African-American like JC Watts or Michael Steele.

Webb will not cut it by a mile. Obama has ZERO foreign polcy experience. Maybe he should get Bryzinski to join the ticket. Hah!


by joe1119 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 10:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Woman on the ticket (none / 0)

If you put a woman on the ticket just for the sake of putting a woman on the ticket (I.e. Ferraro) you wind up looking like a weak cave-in to special interests. That said, I think that HRC, Sebelius and Napolitano will be on the short list.

My first criteria (after, the obvious, who could be president) for a VP is someone who can go out and take it to the other side on the campaign trail and VP debate effectively -- the two most recent were horrible (Liebermann & Edwards). They both held back on Cheney. Second, do the shore up some demographic or some weakness. Webb is ideal for being an attack dog, he brings military credentials, and he appeals to white men i.e. Reagan Democrats.

Sebelius was was too weak on the SOTU speech and face it, Kansas is too red for us to win. Napolitano will not be able to deliver AZ.

THat only leaves HRC as a VP choice. She's a great debater but brings in too much baggage. Plus, what would you do with Bill ?


by chatters71 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 12:53:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Woman on the ticket (none / 0)

good analyis -- I just take issue with the concept that 51% of the population constitutes a "special interest".


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 05:46:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Woman on the ticket (none / 0)

I think women are actually 54% of the population.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 09:05:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Woman on the ticket (none / 0)

Fair enough. By "special interest" I divided women into two categories : women who are demanding a VP vs. the rest of women.

Look, I'm all for a woman as VP. Name the best choice. I gave you my take on HRC & Sebelius. I think Napolitano is a decent choice but have no illusions about turning AZ blue this year.

Senators Feinstein, Boxer are considered too liberal. Sen's Mikulski, Murray, Cantwell, and Lincoln are too unknown. Governor Granholm is unpopular in her state.

Like I said, I think that HRC would be a great VP. i think she would really take it to the Republican VP especially if they are looking to recruit from the 40 yo Gov's Club of Sanford or Pawlenty. (I actually think that Crist would be a good choice but the Evangelicals would freak out over the gay rumors) . In my lifetime, I can only remember Reagan offerring the job to GHW Bush and Kerry offerring it to Edwards when rivals joined hands. Edwards didn't really rough up Kerry on the train and the elder Bush called Reagan out on 'voodoo economics' but that was it.

Kerry himself has said that he belived Edwards wanted to see him lose so that JE could position himself in '08. I wonder if Obama would think the same thing about HRC. That said, I think that HRC would take it if offerred since it's a no-lose position : historical first female VP if Obama wins; automatic frontrunner in '12 if he doesn't.


by chatters71 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:10:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Woman on the ticket (none / 0)

women who are demanding a VP

I haven't run across ANY of these women.

I have run across A LOT of women that are demanding that a woman be THE PRESIDENT.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 11:05:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President -Updated (none / 0)

S.2634
Title: A bill to require a report setting forth the global strategy of the United States to combat and defeat al Qaeda and its affiliates.
Sponsor: Sen Feingold, Russell D. [WI] (introduced 2/13/2008)      Cosponsors (14)
Latest Major Action: 2/27/2008 Senate floor actions. Status: Cloture on the motion to proceed to the measure invoked in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 89 - 3. Record Vote Number: 34. COSPONSORS(14), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]:     (Sort: by date)

     Sen Boxer, Barbara [CA] - 2/25/2008
      Sen Brown, Sherrod [OH] - 2/25/2008
      Sen Byrd, Robert C. [WV] - 2/25/2008
      Sen Casey, Robert P., Jr. [PA] - 2/26/2008
      Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham [NY] - 2/25/2008
      Sen Dodd, Christopher J. [CT] - 2/26/2008
      Sen Harkin, Tom [IA] - 2/25/2008
      Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. [NJ] - 2/26/2008
      Sen Leahy, Patrick J. [VT] - 2/25/2008
      Sen Menendez, Robert [NJ] - 2/14/2008
      Sen Obama, Barack [IL] - 2/25/2008
      Sen Reid, Harry [NV] - 2/13/2008
      Sen Schumer, Charles E. [NY] - 2/26/2008
      Sen Whitehouse, Sheldon [RI] - 2/26/2008


by thescoopenator on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 07:23:39 AM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President -Updated (none / 0)

A change in Feingold's bill -- the removal of an end date for troop redeployment in an effort to win wider support -- persuaded Obama to not co-sponsor the measure.


by thescoopenator on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 07:33:21 AM EST

Re: I Was Too Busy Running for President -Updated (none / 0)

And where is Obama's date certain withdraw bill? This is a political ploy by Obama. He is once again not taking a position because he thinks that if he does it will potentially be a liability. He is making this claim but it is all bullshit. He isn't about to support ANY bill that favors withdraw because he doesn't want to give McCain any ammunition. But McCain has plenty of that anyway. And I say that not because I support McCain but because I am a realist.

If Obama had ANY cajones he would support Feingold. And absent that propose his own plan. But he is probably too busy running for President to do something substantial like that. You know, like be a leader. And work across the aisle and all that crap he spouts on the campaign trail.

All hat and no cattle. Obama, the new Bush.


by Fleaflicker on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 09:10:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dirty Laundry for RNC is already there (none / 0)

If you don't know already, Obama voted FOR the Bush-Cheney Energy Bill and both Clinton & McCain did NOT.  He said in a debate that it was due to nuclear provisions within the bill.  He gets money from execs at Exelon here in IL.  They own the nuclear plants here.  Also Rezco (now on trial) owns a company called "Rezmar" (google rezmar and iraq--woa!)  Rezmar received a contract recently to build a nuclear plant in Iraq.  If you really think the RNC does not have the commercials ready to go after him, you are sadly mistaken.  All that is necessary to destroy the image of 'perfection' the media created in Obama is something simple and FACTUAL like this.  Those taken by his message of purity will feel betrayed and McCain is as good as elected.

I wil back him if the is the candidate, but many won't because of what will be coming out in the RNC commercials this fall.  Sen Clinton will do a great job.  The role of a president according to the Constitution is only one thing--foreign affairs.  The world respects the Clintons.  The perfect person for that role was Biden, but the early states screwed us all out of that foreign affairs opportunity with Biden.

Botom line...Obama has a connection to this energy bill and the nuclear profits to his friends here in IL.  I'll back him if it comes to it, but if Tx comes through maybe it won't HAVE to happen to us.


by ChicagoWay on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:30:04 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.