Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire

The race in Texas is tightening up and it now looks like Barack Obama now has at least a slight edge (even if a statistically insignificant one) in the Lone Star state. That leaves Ohio as the only remaining reliable piece of the March 4 firewall -- that is unless that it isn't so reliable. Take a look at the latest polling from the state:

CandidateRasm.2/222/14PollsterRCP
Clinton48485150.149.6
Obama43403741.141.6

As you can see, over the past dozen days according to Rasmussen Reports, Clinton's lead in Ohio has dropped from 14 points to just 5 -- within the poll's margin of error. That's a similar trend to the one found in Quinnipiac polling this month, with Clinton's lead nearly halving from 21 points to 11 points from the middle of the month to last week.

Now I'm not so convinced that this contest is now within the margin of error -- even though with this poll Rasmussen joins Public Policy Polling (.pdf) to show as much. But the trend in Ohio nonetheless doesn't look great for the Clinton camp, either. Faced with the situation in which Clinton needs to win the remaining contests with about 60 percent or more of the vote from here on out in order to take a lead among the pledged delegates, even a narrow victory in Ohio (particularly if coupled with a loss in Texas) might not be enough for her to realistically stay in the race. So while it looks like Clinton may still be up 9 or 10 points in Ohio, there may have to be a real turn around in the momentum in the state -- and in short order -- for her to hold on to her lead and ultimately win by a sizable enough margin to keep her campaign going.



Display:


Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

This follows Obama's trend. His entire campaign has been "slow and steady wins the race" and the calendar has helped him in that respect. Once again he appears to be slowly but surely eating away Clinton's lead, as he has done in so many states so far in this race. Time is on his side - which makes me skeptical of a Pennsylvania strategy for Clinton.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:01:19 PM EST

Prior calendars (2.00 / 2)

If Obama had a calendar similar to years past, he would have been even further ahead.

This campaign was incredibly front loaded and that sort of front loading only serves to help the status quo candidate.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think Obama is going to have a hard time (none / 0)

Anger.

That's just the second stage.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think Obama is going to have a hard time (none / 0)

Well, Obama losing NY is like Clinton losing Illinois. Home state advantage - hard to read to deeply into that. As for California, I don't see how winning that state should be a prerequisite for winning the nomination. Any Dem will carry it, and both Dems performed well. I say this as a Californian.
As for the "comfort" issue - I don't see that outside of the blogosphere. Can you point to some specific examples that make you think a significant part of the Democratic electorate is not comfortable with Obama? Most polling I hear about says that Democrats are overall very happy with both of their choices. Certainly if we are divided, it is in a small way compared to the dissatisfaction of much of the Republican base with their presumptive nominee.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think Obama is going to have a hard time (2.00 / 1)

Why would Dems not feel comfortable with Obama as the nominee in either California or New York?  In SUSA polling against McCain he wins California 58-35 and wins New York 57-36, bigger margins of victory than Clinton.  Neither one of those states will be in play if Obama (or Clinton) is the nominee.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think Obama is going to have a hard time (none / 0)

Well Hillary couldn't even win Illinois! (seriously, talking about NY that's sad)


by Socraticsilence on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (2.00 / 1)

Wishful thinking (of Clinton supporters) aside, the handwriting was on the wall when Obama won big in WI.  The momentum was undeniable.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:03:37 PM EST

Earlier. (2.00 / 1)

I think the handwriting was on the wall after super Tuesday.  Most of the other sites around pointed that out.  Clinton blew everything she had there, all for (at best) a tie.  After that, nothing but states that favored Obama for a month.  And now we see the momentum from those victories basically smashing into her last couple 'firewalls'.  

Hate to say it, but the last month really has been a replay of Giuliani's campaign...  You can't give up on a dozen contests and hope the people in the states after that don't pay attention to your month long losing streak.


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary has been bhind the entore race (none / 0)

FACT: There has never been a day this entire race when Hillary won more delegates than Obama. In New Hampshire, they tied in pledged delegates. In Nevada, Obama took one more delegate than Hillary. On super Tuesday, Obama won in pledged delegates.

And we know how the eleven races since Super Tuesday turned out.

If Obama had been running against anybody but Hillary, this thing would have been over long ago.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary has been bhind the entore race (none / 0)

I never really thought about that but you are right.  She was the 'heir apparent' and as such given lots of leeway to regain her early lead.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HEre are teh delegate counts (2.00 / 4)

Each day delegates were won Obama first, followed by Clinton

1/3 (IA) 16 - 15
1/8 (NH) 9 - 9
1/15 (MI) 0 - 0
1/19 (NV) 13 - 12
1/26 (SC) 25 - 12
1/29 (FL) 0 - 0
2/5 (SuperTuesday) 842 - 828 (11 still to be decided)
2/9 (LA, NE, WA, VI) 105 - 56
2/10 (ME) 15 - 9
2/12 (DA, DC, MD, VA) 111 - 57.5 (6.5 to be decided)
2/19 (HI,WI) 56 - 38


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:29:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Congratulations (none / 0)

You just got linked on the front page of dailykos.


by Skaje on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:24:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Congratulations (none / 0)

I saw that.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 09:13:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, and I borrowed the numers (none / 0)

in the easily copy and pastable format from here. The numbers are available elsewhere, but why reinvent the wheel when somebody else did the compiling in an easy copy and paste format.

:-)


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 10:17:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary has been bhind the entore race (none / 0)

This is a very good point that hardly anybody knows. How come nobody ever says this on the MSM? Thanks for pointing in out!


by fsugrad on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary has been bhind the entore race (none / 0)

Well said.  I try to make this point all the time.  Hillary has never lead this race in pledged delegates -- not once!

With each primary/caucus day, Barack expands his pledged delegate lead.

It is a testament to Hillary's campaign that their early strategy of shoring up superdelegates has allowed her to seem competitive, when in reality she's been losing from day 1 and has continued to slip behind as Barack keeps racking up victories.


John McCain the flip-flopper...
by chinapaulo on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:09:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That was the purpose of Super Delegates (none / 0)

Early endorsements gave the sensation that the status quo candidate was still in the lead. The status quo could lose primary after primary and still hang in there.

What this achieves is to force a "flash in the pan" insurgency to prove itself over a wider electorate. This is something that has never happened since the inception of Super Delegates.

2008 will go down as a tectonic shift in American politics because Obama fought the system and Obama won their game by their rules.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That was the purpose of Super Delegates (none / 0)

Great point, Walt - I have never thought of this before.  Thanks.  
It is interesting:  Of the 3 candidates, BO has run the best campaign by far. Is this an indicator of how his WH will be managed?  Possibly, the signs point to yes.  
'The only people for me are the mad ones, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing ...'
by stryan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not OH (none / 0)

RI is the firewall!


Election fraud is treason, nothing less.
by NM Ward Chair on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:04:42 PM EST

Re: Not OH (2.00 / 1)

I thought Puerto Rico was the new firewall?


by Chili Dogg on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not OH (none / 0)

It is!  You must have gotten the memo.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:18:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not OH (none / 0)

Ickes intimated the lounge in the Denver Hyatt Regency would be the final firewall.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not OH (2.00 / 2)

The final firewall is the Conecticut For Lieberman national convention.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not OH (2.00 / 1)

"Meet me in Woonsocket!"


by mightymouse on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Watch for (none / 0)

Hillary to go strongly negative in tonight's debate.  And watch for Obama to eviscerate her for doing so.


by Cycloptichorn on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:04:54 PM EST

Re: Watch for (none / 0)

Let's hope Clinton goes out with a whimper, not a bang.


by Kal on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think so (none / 0)

on the "eviscerating" part.  We had the angry confrontation debate, and it didn't really look good for anyone.  Obama's done a really incredible job of parrying and defusing Clinton's blows, and that's all that's needed right now.  He just needs to defuse her and appear to take the high ground.


by Rorgg on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think so (none / 0)

I think if she comes out angry he is going to go with the calm and cool exterior and go back to his "nobody was saying these things when I was twenty points down" line of commentary.

I think that line has worked really well and I am surprised we haven't spoken more about it. It makes everything the other side does look tactical and politically motivated (which is really true for both sides, but nobody wants to look like it.) It also makes Clinton appear desperate- which is a great theory for Obama to perpetuate at this point.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If these numbers hold... (none / 0)

...HRC is in trouble, deep.  She NEEDS...absolutely NEEDS blowout victories; LANDSLIDES.

The part elders are starting to fall into line (Dodd's endoresement was meant to send a message I am positive), Obama's lead in the primary delegates is insurmountable without 25-30 point blowouts in all of the remianing contests.

That 30 point need becomes 40 points for the remainder of the states If HRC splits delegagtes in TX/OH.  

The super-d's are starting to join Obama too.

The voting can't come soon enought for HRC...the longer it goes on the more support her opponent drums up.

Not being snarky here... just statements of fact.


by a gunslinger on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:08:09 PM EST

Re: If these numbers hold... (none / 0)

That's why a long slog between Ohio and Pennsylvania is devestating to Hillary, too. Especially since Wyoming and Mississippi fall in between, and he should clean up in both.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If these numbers hold... (none / 0)

I think I said (almost verbatim) what is in your signature line about a month ago... and I still couldn't agree more.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Momentum... (none / 0)

The momentum is going the other way though.  The idea that it's going to suddenly stop, reverse, and do so in a large enough way (and in a short enough time) to actually make any of the math work for a win... just isn't really plausible.  


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:09:19 PM EST

This has been the pattern (none / 0)

I wonder if Obama will show up in Rhode Island to try and sweep March 4?


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:10:34 PM EST

Re: This has been the pattern (none / 0)

I wouldn't put it past him.  Obama is the one running the 50 state strategy in this primary.  If TX and OH polling has completely turned in his favor by the end of the weekend, I'm certain that you'll see a RI visit Sunday or Monday.  Even if it hasn't, I wouldn't be surprised to see a visit anyway.  People were asking what the hell he was doing in ID the weekend before 2/5.  I don't think those people are still asking that question...


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I certainly hope he does (none / 0)

Why pass up a chance to show the flag and get some serious local press? Unless there is just no way at all to work it into the schedule every campaign appearance now is a step towards success in the general, both for himself and the local candidates.


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BREAKING: Ohio doesn't matter (none / 0)

The Clinton Campaign statement from the very near future:

"We are not worried about Ohio, we are confident that Ohio doesn't matter, as its a wishy washy state  that isn't worth our effort anyways"

Mr. Penn is collecting your donated dollars by the millions.

Where does the buck stop in the Clinton Campaign?

 


M Hussein Garvey
by MGarvey on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:11:46 PM EST

Re: BREAKING: Ohio doesn't matter (2.00 / 1)

At this time I beleive Penn is using Hillary to prop up McCain and attack Obama.

Pen makes money with McCain and Hillary. Obama is Penn's enemy regardless.

Everything that happens betwen now and Hillary droipping out is to the direct financial benefit of Mark Penn. He could care less if he destroys Hillary's career.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:17:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BREAKING: Ohio doesn't matter (2.00 / 0)

Exactly.

That bears repeating everywhere you go:

Mark Penn and his group are profiting from both McCain and Clinton.  He doesn't care if she loses (obviously) as long as  either she or McCain pull it out against Obama, he comes out ahead.

Thats why so many of Clintons attacks against Obama get repeated and carried on by Repubs. Her campaign has turned into a test range for Republican attacks against the Dem nominee.

She is their surrogate now, and has been since the Potomac primaries. Whether she is aware of it or not is the real question.

If she's not, that should disqualify her from office just as much as running a poor campaign. If she is aware of that.....well, that creeps me out.

The 50+1 strategy is dead, may it stay buried for a very very long time.


M Hussein Garvey
by MGarvey on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BREAKING: Ohio doesn't matter (none / 0)

I think, if this is true (and it appears to be true,) that Clinton will a.) live to regret it and b.) make sure everyone who caused it (aka Penn and company) also live to regret it.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:12:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Worst Decision Ever. (none / 0)

Hindsight and all... but she should have started firing certain people back in Iowa.  There were actually quite a few rumors about all that, and Bill came out bashing Penn for some of the things he had said, but in the end nothing actually happened... probably in part because the NH win.


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

absolutely... (2.00 / 0)

..the NH comeback masked larger problems in the HRC campaign and prevented them from recognizing structural/strategic problems. Firing Mark Penn wouldn't have helped them improve their strangely lackluster ground game though.


by wasder on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:23:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Ground Game... (2.00 / 0)

Was lackluster because they didn't see it as important.  It's not like they tried it and failed... they essentially didn't even try.


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Ground Game... (2.00 / 0)

I really think they didn't expect there to be much of a race after Super Tuesday.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

can't they add? (none / 0)

you would like to see the Clinton campaign's spreadsheet of expected delegate numbers.

it would explain a lot.


by mightymouse on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have a feeling.... (2.00 / 0)

..that if she loses Texas big enough she will drop out within a week of March 4th, no matter what happens in Ohio. any kind of Clinton loss in texas will basically make her chances mathematically slim to none, but a substantial loss in Texas will bring unbelievable pressure from the party to drop out. On a separate note I also hope she doesn't go nuclear in the debate tonight. It hasn't helped her thus far and I don't see why it will start working now.


by wasder on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:17:47 PM EST

Re: I have a feeling.... (2.00 / 1)

I think their feeling now is that they just haven't 'gone nuclear' hard enough.


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:23:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a feeling.... (none / 0)

I don't how you feel about that, but I think that if they think that going harder in the direction that has already proved to be a loser is the answer we are in for a very disturbing spectacle this evening. I mean how much more divisive can she go?


by wasder on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a feeling.... (2.00 / 0)

She will end up looking deperate and silly if she tries to make the debate a personal attack forum.  I don't think she is that stupid (or stupid at all).  She is at her best debating issues, and the personal attacks have not stuck at all.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:28:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a feeling.... (2.00 / 0)

Actually she has been her best debating soundbites.   She had the distinct advantage when there was the most candidates in the race.   Ever since it has come down to just the two of them he does much, much better.  The recent poll in Texas exhibited how strong he is in the debates where he gets the chance to show he has just as much grasp of the issues as she, where he gets to show why he's a better choice for Commander in Chief and why he's better to to take on McCain on the Iraq War.  And I would imagine tonight he will puncture her experience balloon.  


by Piuma on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a feeling.... (none / 0)

I think it's more of a case of HIM being stronger in the one-on-one than her being weaker.  I thought both candidates put on quite a show in the last debate, whereas in the group debates, Obama's voice tended to get lost in the din.  Obama gained in the polls not because he necessarily "won" the debate but because he had more to gain.  Just coming off as a "tie" was a gain for Obama since debating was supposed to be Hillary's forte.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah... (none / 0)

Hillary is just a better debater than Obama.  And she's way better at getting out the kind of sound bites that get play after the debates.  

Then again, she's repeatedly stumbled and wound up with her foot in her mouth during the debates, usually after trying to go after someone.  


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah... (2.00 / 0)

I don't get the CW that Clinton is a superior debater, but maybe I'm not looking for the same thing when determining who is winning a particular argument.

Granted, I haven't watched all the debates, but based on the last few debates, she has been playing it the way most politicians do... i.e., looking for places to insert predetermined answers/talking points/stories/zingers.

Obama has done this to some extent as well, but in general, he comes across as if he's thinking about and answering the question put in front of him.  Matt Yglesias, said once that he could almost see the gears in his brain turning.  I happen to find this very appealing.

And this is from someone who never thought he would get the nomination in a million years, much less win in November.  But after seeing him the last couple months, I think he has a great chance to win both.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:01:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

"So while it looks like Clinton may still be up 9 or 10 points in Ohio . . . " ~ so while it looks like what?!?  up by 9 or 10??  i mean really, at least say she could be up by 9 or they could be tied ~


by pholkhero on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:34:45 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

Educated guess?  Go back two weeks (oldest on top):
+17
+21
+14
+9
+7
Here's the past week:
+8
+11
+8
+4
+10
+6 (newest)

I think she's really got about a 6 point lead right now and she's dropping around a point per day.  Given the incumbent-rebound effect, I'd give even money on election night.


by Rorgg on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:17:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

The Penn Mccain connection scares, me as an Obama supporter and I think it should terrify HRC fans, I mean why wouldn't he use Hillary as a bludgeon to help Mccain win the election, its not like he cares if it destroys her post-primary career.


by Socraticsilence on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:35:24 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

Well, for one, Hillary has agree to irrationally going nuclear as well.  Penn isn't the candidate here.  This connection is definitely overblown.  Hillary isn't stupid, and won't torpedo the rest of her career for the benefit of her incompetent manager's business associate.  Let's take off the tin foil hats for a second here.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well... (2.00 / 1)

Far too early post-mortems aside, I think it IS actually a testament to Hillary Clinton the candidate that this race still isn't over.  I tend to agree that we've reached the beginning stages of the end, and I likewise agree that the 'end of the beginning' happened the evening of 2/5.

I'm not even here to toss kudos to a soon-to-be vanquished primary opponent....

But the fact that Hillary Clinton is still in the fight - needing to land a knockout in this round, but still in the fight nonetheless - is a testament to Hillary Clinton.

That's not to say she didn't have a lot of advantages coming in - that slowly diminishing superDelegate lead didn't happen by accident.  The primary schedule very much favored her.  She's raised a heck of a lot of money.

Barack Obama had plenty of his own obstacles to overcome, but so too has Hillary Clinton (some, like her awful staff, self-inflicted).

Still - both these candidates have had their moments where lesser candidates would have imploded.

Neither has.

To me - that's what makes Obama's standings all the more impressive.  Hillary Clinton's campaign may have sucked - but she herself most certainly did not "lose" this race.

Barack Obama is winning it.


by zonk on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:35:32 PM EST

Re: Well... (none / 0)

Couldn't agree more. Can you imagine if Gore or Kerry had to face one of them?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well... (none / 0)

Heh...

As much I've come to respect both Gore since 2000 and Kerry since 2004 (and I voted for both of them in their respective GEs) -- if this race had been Clinton vs. Obama vs. Gore or Kerry -- this race would have VERY quickly become Clinton vs. Obama.

Ever since Bill Clinton ran out of campaigns to run, we've unfortunately found ourselves relegated to Democrats who either fire us up (but apparently scare a lot of other people) or put us to sleep.

We've had an embarassment of riches this cycle.


by zonk on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well... (none / 0)

And BTW -

When I say "embarrassment of riches" - I also include Edwards, and even to a lesser extent, Dodd, Biden, and Richardson.


by zonk on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Texas is the one (none / 0)

Bill announced that Texas was it. Ohio can see that Texas is lost, or will in a few days, see that Texas is lost and it's over.

On HRC going strongly negative in the debate tonight from a poooster abve -- will it hurt Obama in the general, or will the negative attacks create sympathy?

If she uses points that might hurt Obama in the general doesn't that defeat Clinton's legacy and trash her standing in the party?

HRC is not crazy like some pretend supporters here, pffft, she is a great Democrat. This will be hard fought battle of position, drawing blood doesnt win in this debate, it hurts the attacker.

Voters who HRC needs are the "we like him, can he really do this?" crowd. Attacking him will only draw cries of unfair and loose those people.

HRC's strongest message " You know I can do this, I've got grit and the heart we need, the fate of our nation is in your hands."

Strongest message, best for the party too. This is the kind of speech/debate that will help make her Senate Majority Leader too. If she is perceived as hurting the party, fellow Dem. senators will be pissed.


by inexile on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:40:51 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

I have never read Daily Kos.  The signal:noise ratio on that site has always been way too low for my liking.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:46:00 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

This is the AFC Title Game. Most recent years, that game has been the best of the season. And then the Patriots, Colts or Steelers would be sent out to face the Waukesha Seagulls or some similarly weak NFC team, and we'd all watch for the commercials.

I really believe -- and am pretty sure it's not too colored by hope -- that McCain is a Wakesha Seagull.

P.S. I'm an Eagles fan. Sigh.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:49:42 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

We like MyDD precisely FOR the attacks. It makes us battle-tested and ready for the General Election.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:51:50 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

Funny I thought that the name of this website was MYDD not MYHILL!


by waldo on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:52:00 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

I've thought that Clinton wins Ohio by 5 points for about a week now. I do think you're right that a 5 point poll lead in Ohio translates to a 8 or 9 point win for Clinton. This is the one state that I think the pollsters will oversample obama's support more then they should. why? because independents aren't around to really skew results.

but in the end, I do see the polls showing a tie and clinton winning between 3-6 points.


!
by alex100 on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:53:12 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (2.00 / 0)

But she needs to win TX and OH by 20+ points to justify staying in the game.

Anything less than a landslide for her in either state is tantamount to a loss.

The Dem elders will step in and end it at that point.


M Hussein Garvey
by MGarvey on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (2.00 / 0)

Teh eldars are already stepping in.

Chris Dodd drew teh short straw.

I think there's a line already formed. More will be expressing the endcgame.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

sure but that's not realistic anymore is it?

she just needs to perform to the best of her ability at this point and move on from there.


!
by alex100 on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:26:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I Take It... (2.00 / 0)

That you don't know these blog's histories?


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:55:39 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (2.00 / 0)

Yeah, the hell with her future.


by Bob Johnson on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:57:50 PM EST

Another OUCH (none / 0)

Looks like John Lewis will be announcing he officially endorses Barack Obama, possibly as early as today...


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:57:50 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (2.00 / 0)

well, different strokes for different folks.

I will say that DailyKos has been stronger in terms of keeping progressives up to date on FISA, GOP scandal and down ticket races. I understand if this is your sanctuary however.


!
by alex100 on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:58:27 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (2.00 / 1)

Well here's the thing.

MyDD was never about an individual candidate... it was never supposed to be.  Neither was DailyKos, for that matter.

MyDD was always a place for progressives and Democratics to talk inside baseball politics, to talk campaign strategy, to talk policy, to talk about the dynamics of a race.

I love DailyKos - it's sort of the mothership - but MyDD was always the "thinking partisan's site", by my measure.

It's less crowded, there are a lot of really, really smart folks here.  Veterans of campaigns.  Veterans of think thanks.

I don't want to break ANYONE's spirt.  That doesn't mean there aren't jackass Obama supporters who don't lend much to the argument.  That doesn't even mean solid posters don't sometimes cross the line.... I don't necessarily count myself as a "solid poster" - but I do know I have also crossed the line on occasion.

Baseball and politics are my two passions.  Just because I'm a Cubs fan and an Obama supporter doesn't mean I cannot still talk intelligently about baseball or politics generally.

DK DOES sometimes develop a herd mentality.  I dislike that - and when it does - I generally drift over here.

So far as I'm concerned, if your SOLE point to play candidate partisan games -- there are plenty of other places to do so.

I think it's unfortunate when ANY nominal "Democratic" or "progressive" site becomes a candidate hub.


by zonk on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 03:59:38 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

...MyDD was always the "thinking partisan's site", by my measure.
That's why it's so strange for me reading the diaries here.  They're just soo far off what the front page is...  

Then again, the front page isn't exactly stellar these days either.  There's been virtually zero coverage of the rest of the issues going on outside of the presidential campaigns.


by Brillobreaks on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

Your a Cub's fan? How dare you post on this site. I've been coming here for years, and as a Red's fan, I take strong offense that you would crowd on my territory. Go back to your Wrigleyville sites and leave this wonderful undiscovered haven for the rest of NL Central supports alone.

Damn You and your Cubbie Blue


by Brynhoe on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

Heh...

It's a BLUE site... take your Jay Bruce-loving self over to "RED"state :-)

I think you'll actually enjoy Dusty Baker - he's very good in year one... just make sure you either win a title or get him out of town before he blows out Homer Bailey's arm!


by zonk on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

I figure that year one will coincide with the slow and steady rise of Barack Obama over John McCain culminating in a fine October, thus releaving me of the agony of watching Fukudome(really the greatest name in sports) hitting a walk off home run to clinch the total off of the Branson Arroyo.

If they can break .500 I'll be happy


by Brynhoe on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 06:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

As a lifelong Cardinals fan, I can no longer read what you write as objective analysis.   I was raised to bleed Cardinal red, and root for the team playing the Cubs that day.  


'The only people for me are the mad ones, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing ...'
by stryan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

here, here.

We non Cubs fan must stick together and spread sulacious acusions, and the like, in the hopes of stopping the better funded and better organized Cubs franchise.


by Brynhoe on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 06:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yet Another Firewall ? (none / 0)

There has been a lot of poll analysis and number-crunching on these here Internets, but I'm thinking about another way to look at the situation.  Seems to me that it's very difficult to conceive of a scenario where Hillary wins the nomination with a sense of legitimacy.  You have to resort to really creative math to cook up a recipe that gives her a solid lead in pledged delegates going into the convention.  Thus, it seems to me that the only way she could pull this out is by sweet-talking a bunch of superdelegates into casting their vote for her at the convention.  And if that happens, there is gonna be big trouble in the Party.  I don't think any of us wants our nominee to go up against the Republicans in November if our candidate doesn't enjoy the support of a unified party.  I just don't see how Hillary acheives that from where we stand at the moment.  


by global yokel on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:24:42 PM EST

Re: Yet Another Firewall ? (none / 0)

It's what was so wrong with Sunday's speech.  I can understand her going after Obama, but on Sunday it was his supporters she was deriding.  There are 1,000,000 people who have actually contributed money to his campaign.  That is an astounding figure, and no good Democrat would ever belittle their efforts and commitment.  That type of stuff is okay for the blogs, but for a candidate to do that was really beyond the pale.


by Piuma on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:39:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yet Another Firewall ? (none / 0)

I did an analysis yesterday with these conditions:

They split RI/VT
Hillary wins OH by 10
Hillary wins TX by a point, with Obama getting more delegates
Obama bareley takes WY and MS
Hillary wins PA by 20
Hillary nets 25 Superdelegates

And I gave her the benefit of every doubt -- she was still down far enough that adding in Florida at that point only got her to tied.  And the schedule after that point favors Obama.

If she wins Ohio by less (my guess is even money right now) and loses Texas by anything significant (and I guess she will) she loses even that outside chance of a fairy-tale come from behind scenario.


by Rorgg on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:43:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gee, why didn't you post yesterdays Quinnipiac (none / 0)

Poll that shows Hillary 51 and Obama 40?


by LindaSFNM on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 04:45:17 PM EST

Re: Gee, why didn't you post yesterdays Quinnipiac (none / 0)

And Quin was +21 a week and a half ago, so they have consistently been the Clinton outlier in OH and their margin was cut in half in basically a week.  Any way you slice it, it is not good news for Hillary.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 08:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Ohio Firewall Coming Under Fire (none / 0)

Quinnipac has been so/so this cycle, at best.  
SUSA has been the most accurate, by far.  
'The only people for me are the mad ones, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing ...'
by stryan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 05:13:21 PM EST


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