MyDD :: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among Democrats!

A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among Democrats!

by KyleSIU, Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:47:00 PM EST

Self-identified Democrats choose Hillary Clinton, 56%-40%, according to a new Public Policy Polling survey.

But, thanks to outside influence from "Independents" and Republicans, when they vote in a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, Obama is only down 50-46.

When Republicans are overtly influencing our candidate, that's a perfectly legitimate argument for superdelegates to intervene to represent the will of the DEMOCRATIC voters in a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/0 2/25/ppp_poll_obama_surging_in_ohio.html

Tags: republicans, obama, neocon (all tags)

Permalink :: 47 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

In the GE, Independents will decide the president.

Like it or not.

M Hussein Garvey

by MGarvey on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:49:08 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 1)

That's fine. But the Democratic nominee should still be selected by Democrats.

by LakersFan on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Except that's not what the Democratic Party thinks. The DNC thinks it's a good idea to invite Independents into the party. It's called recruitment.

by JoeCoaster on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:02:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 0)

And I think they're wrong and this strategy will backfire.

by LakersFan on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Recruitment is when you get them to become Democrats.

Democratic nominee should be chosen by persons idenitifying themself as Democrats.

The General election you get to vote not bound by party.

It's insane that Democrats didn't fix the election this year to no longer have Caucuses and close the Primaries to self described Demcrats. That's how you grow the party.

Independents will be the SWING vote in the General and if they want to stay SWING, that's where they vote.

by LindaSFNM on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 0)

Oh I see, so they should have influence on party nominees? I see you make no beef about Republicans influencing it

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 0)

The Republicans will not vote for Hillary in the primary because they know that she is a doer and not a talker and that she has the experience to lead and the experience to change. They also are well aware that she's a fighter who has been vetted.

by pastor john on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:55:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Yeah, and plus, she would make all the republican base incredibly angry and riled up. I mean, they never use emotional issues to pull more voters to the polls, that would just be completely manipulative.

jk.

by Tantris on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many Republicans are afraid of going to jail. (none / 0)

What does that have to do with what I said? Is Hillary going to bring out the GOP less, because they are scared people will get prosecuted if she gets elected?

by Tantris on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:51:18 PM EST
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and independents will choose McCain over Obama (none / 0)

only Hillary is a winnable candidate

by WeNeed3rdParty on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:19:33 PM EST
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Re: A decisive victory for Hillary (none / 0)

Nah, you see, many of us Democrats, the ones who like to win elections, think it's a good idea to appeal to Independents and even Republicans, because, and maybe you aren't aware of this, they vote in the general election too.

by bigdcdem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:51:49 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary (2.00 / 0)

Oh I see. So they should overthrow the will of DEMOCRATS in a Democratic primary? That's really fair.

When Democrats decide, America loses. That's your argument!

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:53:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They'll be voting in the GE, naturally. (2.00 / 1)

They'll be voting for McCain. The Republicans will be doing that for certain, and a huge swath of independents will also do that.

by Montague on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:54:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How long have you been clairvoyant? (none / 0)

That was always my favorite super power.

by bigdcdem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:57:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Most of my life, thanks for asking (none / 0)

The only one that surprised me - maybe disgusted is a better word - was Reagan. It didn't really surprise me that he won, but it did surprise me that he got so many states. Other than that, I've called every one of them right, both before and after.

by Montague on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 08:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll always remember this primary (2.00 / 1)

as the time when the Repugs chose our candidate, and a lot of said candidate's supporters - who have SAVAGED Repugs in the past - came to the defense of having Repugs choose our candidate.

by Montague on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:56:08 PM EST

Re: I'll always remember this primary (none / 0)

I will always remember this primary as a time when an incredibly energized electorate donated money and time to two great Democratic Nominees in order to decide the next President of the United States. A time when the activists on both sides saw the other as traitors and turncoats, while the American people saw two great nominees. A time when independents and Republicans crossed over to vote for the nominee they were happiest with, instead of trying to sabotage the Democratic Nominee. A time when the Democratic Nominees outraised the Republicans in spades. A time when the activists of both Democratic Nominees attacked the other as getting money/favors/talking points from lobbyists/GOP members/GOP lobbyists.

I think I will remember this primary as a great point in history for the United States. A time when there was some emotion behind the candidates, rather than a failure to tell the difference between the possible Republican Nominee and Democratic Nominee.

But, I guess we all see something different.

by Tantris on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll always remember this primary (none / 0)

And then the sun came out and we all sang This little light of mine Ima gonna let it shine! YAWn

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 07:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll always remember this primary (none / 0)

Wow, you saw that happen too? I thought it was all those weird pills I have been taking...

by Tantris on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 08:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You will learn (none / 0)

A time when there was some emotion behind the candidates, rather than a failure to tell the difference between the possible Republican Nominee and Democratic Nominee.

Now that made no sense. Emotion for candidates is always behind votes. Voters pay insufficient attention to hard details. They wind up voting for the shining light, or the friendly beer buddy.

by Montague on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 08:34:23 AM EST
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Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

But but..Obama knows Youtube better. He's our better candidate! WAH WAH

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:56:41 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Isn't that nice! But -- Ohio is an open primary, right? So, if she wants to, you know, WIN, Ohio and do so decisively, she has to win more than Democrats.

by mainelib on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:57:36 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 0)

That's my point. You are openly advocating for non-democratic voters "wills" to OVERTURN ACTUAL DEMOCRATIC VOTERS who support her by a wide margin in state after state. Are you seriously so in love with Donnie McClurkin's favorite candidate that you dont see that the will of your party is being SUBVERTED By people who go on YouTube for a living?

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Who goes on YouTube for a living? The millions of people who have voted for Obama?

Damn. If only I had known I could do that.

by mainelib on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Silly me (none / 0)

I thought winning more than Democrats was the job in the general election.

by Montague on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 08:35:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Considering that the Clintons helped found the DLC, yes, it's pretty clear that they are not progressives.

As I recall, that was part of the 1992 Clinton campaign message, as they presented themselves as centrists.

by mainelib on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:59:16 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Do you think the Clinton campaign knew that a lot of the contests were open to non-Democrats? If so, then why did they not try to win them? Did they prefer to lose rather than sully their candidate with non-Democratic votes?

by mainelib on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:01:52 PM EST

Had not heard of caucuses either... (none / 0)

Here is the latest anti-caucus rant from Bill (in Texas).

"If you vote early or you vote on March the 4th in the popular election, 65 percent of the delegates will be selected to the national convention. But 35 percent of the delegates for the national convention will be selected Tuesday night, March 4, at 8000 Percent Convention all across this state," Clinton told the crowd in Killeen this morning, adding, "The doors open at 7 and they close at 7:15. It would be tragic if Hillary were to win this election in the daytime and somebody were to come in at night and take it away."

ABC News

by JoeCoaster on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Had not heard of caucuses either... (2.00 / 1)

So I see democracy means nothing to you. If she wins the vote, that means nothing unless people organize on Facebook and go to caucus? Give me a break. Respecting democracy isn't a rant.

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Had not heard of caucuses either... (none / 0)

How exactly did his comment allude you to think he didn't support Democracy? And, as far as I know, caucuses are a perfectly democratic activity, based on the definition of democracy and the way democracy is rated.

Unless you are scared someone is going to get beaten up for voting wrong...

Everyone can't participate as easily, but they could participate. Is it more difficult? Sure. The candidate has to work and organize people, because the other side will be doing it as well. You know how many people show up for my COA(condo owners association) meetings? Not very many, unless someone gets people to come. Not many people care. Is it unfair because some people can't convince others as easily? This is democracy at its most raw. People standing in a room and debating.

Unless you feel someone will get hurt for voting the wrong way, I feel the attacks on caucuses are uncalled for. They are definitely not "undemocratic".

by Tantris on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:17:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Had not heard of caucuses either... (none / 0)

Oo, they are going to take away her win in the dead of the night? She should be winning caucuses, not losing them. Obama can organize better, and he gets attacked for it. This is honestly one of the things I have always found funny.

by Tantris on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 1)

So you again don't answer the simple question. Do you or do you not advocate Republicans subverting the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary?

Perfect time for superdelegates. And it makes the argument that much better....

"YES WE CAYUN" win by subverting the will of Democrats...

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:02:12 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

All of you are failing to see one thing here....
It was stated on WLW the day of the election and in various articles on the web after.Since McCain, it was felt is a sure thing as far as the nomination, it was time to act.Pundits for a long time have been saying that if the election were held today (Their words not mine.Don't shoot the messenger),Barack Obama would beat John McCain.OTOH,they said if it were Clinton v. McCain,McCain wins the WH.So with that in mind,and an open Ohio Primary.... Why wouldn't a staunch conservative republican crossover vote for Clinton?This isn't about who wins the battles.It is about who wins the war.And they are just like the "Fake US soldiers" Germany planted in France in WWII.You have a job to do to help insure a victory,so you vote that day for Hillary(The beatable candidate so they say),and then the next day you go back to being the conservative republican you are.All this just to help make sure your man McCain has the best chance possible at winning in November.You hate to do it,but you do it because politics are kinda like Vince Lombardi Football.Whatever it takes legally to win,you do it.And you never turn your back on your party.May be unethical,but it's legal.And if it's legal,it's ok. But had this been a tighter GOP race,it may have been different,who knows.

by Spy v Spy on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 1)

Yes, yes, we know, Marietta, Georgia and Rural Utah were right. California, New York, Florida, where people actually live ,were wrong. I see. Rural Utah is the birth of progressivism...wake up people. wake up

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:04:19 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Wisconsin, Minnesota, Connecticut, Maine, Delaware, Maryland, Washington DC, Washington St, Hawaii...

vs.
Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennesee, Arizona, Nevada

He's won more blue states than she has...
He's won more purple states,
He's won more red states

He wins everywhere, stop selecting states because your candidate thinks only a few matter

Wiz in Hussein Wis

by Wiz in Wis on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fine (2.00 / 0)

HRC can have the Democratic nomination in the alternate reality where one can suddenly -- 30some states into the process -- decide the process isn't working rihgt.

We'll take the nomination in the real world, where the rules have been available for discussion and change for a long, long time.

You want different rules?

Well - there are plenty of avenues for you to work to change them. The heat of a primary campaign is not among them.

by zonk on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:08:03 PM EST

Re: Fine (none / 0)

lol why dont you ask your candidate about why 527's were "dirty politics" in Iowa but not anywhere else. So you're absolutely fine with Democratic voters being thrown under the bus by people who re too embarassed to call thesmelves Democrats ,or the Dick Morris followerS/
Shame on you. Get over IWR

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fine (none / 0)

Exactly what is 'IWR'?

by zonk on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Georgia will be the last state to go blue, they voted Hillary out as a form of their last shot against the prosperous Clinton years.

by rolnitzky on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:15:03 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (2.00 / 1)

I'm totally with you Kyle. I think we need to close all of our primaries. If Indys want to influence who the nominee is, they should stop being so damn wishy-washy and register for a party. It's not like party registration is a lifelong commitment. But it would require some forethought, and prevent people from being "Democrats for a Day".

by LakersFan on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:17:23 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

I'm glad you will impose your will on those who might disagree with you

Sounds like a Clinton supporter to me

My way or WAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

Wiz in Hussein Wis

by Wiz in Wis on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

Indy's weren't allowed to vote in the GOP primary in my state. I really don't see why non-Democrats should be voting in the Democratic primary.

I'm not sure how expressing my opinion was "imposing my will" on others. But it's pretty typical for an Obama supporter to make naive and unsupported statements in an attempt to silence anyone that disagrees with them. (Or maybe you're a Republican who really does want to continue meddling in our nomination process.)

by LakersFan on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

THANK YOU!!!! LOOK AT THE EXIT POLLS. All of these "new voters" that Obama is bringing in are too embarassed to call themselves Democrats!

by KyleSIU on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 07:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

OH MY GOD!!! HEAVEN FORBID A DEMOCRAT BRINGS INDIES AND REPUBLICANS TO OUR PARTY! OOOOOOH WOE IS ME

by SocialDem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 08:12:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

The DLC dems, who have been professionally losing elections since their inception, need to GTFO of the drivers seat. Its time for a new generation. The Hippycrite generation of Boomers have shown how they manage things, and look what we have to show for it.

Hillary has paid Mr. Penn millions of dollars, her campaign is in shambles, and she can't manage the money very well at all. Does any Hillary supporter know that Mr. Penn's company also works for Blackwater USA? And that his other clients include a certain Mr. John McCain? Look it up. He wins either way, so hes pushing Hillary to go negative and wage attacks on Obama that McCain is too weakly positioned to launch effectively himself at the moment.

Why SHOULD she be in charge of the country? She's been running a losing campaign based on 90's politics, continued division, and feel good selective 90's nostalgia. Thats it.

Your paranoid conspiracy theories about Repubs switching sides is pure bullshit. You nshould get some stock in Alcoa, buddy.

M Hussein Garvey

by MGarvey on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:20:37 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

How the hell is this a victory its just a freakin poll no one has won anything in Ohio yet

by anujtron on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:26:26 PM EST

Re: A decisive victory for Hillary in Ohio among (none / 0)

anujtron...I'm with you! I cannot get over how supporters on both sides latch on to the poll they like the results from and tout it as evidence of anything.
Come on, "a decisive victory in Ohio...." which, by the way has not VOTED yet.
I really hope the exit polls show Barack Obama with a lead in Democratic voters.

by independentvoter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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