Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- According to Gallup

I've made the argument here a couple of times that national polling is a fairly poor predictor of where the race for the Democratic nomination currently stands as a) there is no national primary, and b) many, if not most, voters in the country have already had the opportunity to vote and will not be voting again in the primaries. At the same time I have acknowledged, and will say again, that national polling numbers -- particularly from outlets that are widely read and/or those that have the eyes of key players in the party and the establishment media -- have the potential to shape the Democratic race inasmuch as they affect perceived momentum and the like. With that in mind, here's USA Today's Susan Page on the not one but two sets of new numbers from Gallup:

The Illinois senator has surged to a double-digit lead nationally over Clinton, walloping her 51%-39% among Democrat voters as their preference for the presidential nomination. The poll of 2,012 adults was taken Thursday through Sunday.

His 13-point lead [sp?] -- his first outside the survey's margin of error -- is at odds with a separate Gallup tracking poll. Taken Friday through Sunday, it gave the Illinois senator a narrow 47%-45% lead over Clinton.

In the stand-alone poll Obama has a double-digit lead while in the tracking poll his lead is just 2 points. Both surveys have a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points for the Democratic samples. Suffice it to say that it's not particularly easy to square two such disparate sets of numbers from the same pollster, though it could be statistical noise.

Nevertheless, coverage and perceptions are driven as much by headlines as they are by the content of the stories, so because the stand-alone poll appears to be bigger "news" (in the sense that Obama has not to this point been able to open up such a large lead in national polling), it could serve to reinforce the meme that Obama is pulling ahead about a week out from Texas, Ohio, Rhode Island and Vermont. Who that helps is a story for another day (I could make arguments in either direction)...



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Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- Acco (none / 0)

They use different assumptions about the primary electorate.  


by mainelib on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:51:12 PM EST

The Mydd spin control team (none / 0)

is on the move LOL.


by bigdcdem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:51:48 PM EST

Re: The Mydd spin control team (none / 0)

Which candidate am I spinning for?


Blogging here @ MyDD.com. Twittering @jonathanhsinger.
by Jonathan Singer on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Mydd spin control team (none / 0)

I'm an Obama supporter, but don't listen to whatever they're saying. You're not spinning.


by pastor john on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:00:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, sorry (none / 0)

Please excuse the knee-jerk response.


by bigdcdem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Mydd spin control team (none / 0)

if you haven't been here that long , it is understandable you would make a comment like that .

Anything that is supposedly objective and not pro obama, lets go on the attack even if it is a fellow supporter.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:55:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- Acco (none / 0)

In medicine we use a technique called "meta-analysis" in which data collected in multiple studies is -- carefully -- integrated into a single data set.

I wish polling outfits did that.


by EMTP democrat on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:54:27 PM EST

As I have argued here (none / 0)

since last June, National Polling is irrevelant because there is no national primary.


by fladem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:55:43 PM EST

Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- Acco (none / 0)

Could it be that HRC was leading in the poll for the two previous days, and obama's bounce of 13 offset that so that we get the +2 avg?

I don't know ~ i rarely see daily nat'l polls ~ most seem to be of the tracking variety


by pholkhero on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:00:39 PM EST

Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- Acco (none / 0)

Your last sentence would make a more interesting diary than this one.  I think at this point, I'm not sure how good an argument you could make for it helping Clinton.  We're at the point of "rallying the troops".  If the perception is these next 4 contests can put Obama over the top - something which even Bill made - this could inspire Obama's supporters more than Hillary's.  They can be part of making history, of securing the nomination.  At this point all Hillary can hope to do is live another day.  


by Piuma on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:02:33 PM EST

It's a nice feather (none / 0)

And it makes for a good Monday news cycle...

But I think it's a pretty meaningless factor in terms of the state of the race.

In other words, Jonathon, I agree with you entirely but just like to hear myself talk ;-)


by zonk on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:04:14 PM EST

It's weird (none / 0)

I guess maybe they use different voter screens....most likely, one is including more independents than the other.


by pastor john on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:05:17 PM EST

are these from states that havent voted yet? (none / 0)

i HATE these nat'l polls. there is no way one candidate is up 10+ points at this moment in the race.


by highgrade on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:08:04 PM EST

Re: are these from states that havent voted yet? (none / 0)

I'd say 5-7 would be more reasonable, but then again Mccain is way up on Huck so you never know.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:47:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point (none / 0)

The first difference I see is that the USA Today / Gallup poll is "adults" instead of LV or even RV.  The lack of a voter screen usually makes for some pretty wild results.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:08:55 PM EST

Have we given up on this one? (none / 0)

Did anyone else wince when Susan Page referred to "Democrat voters" in the excerpt above? Does anyone else even see what is wrong with that anymore?


by dannotdan on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:10:39 PM EST

Re: Have we given up on this one? (none / 0)

Interesting. I read that as a disclaimer. It might as well say, "The author of this article is a Republican".


by LakersFan on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Statistics (none / 0)

Assuming everything else was the same (voter screens, ect.), these two results would not be impossible based on the MOEs indicated.

With a +/- of 3%, you would get the following ranges from each poll. (Polling MOEs are usually based on a 95% confidence interval, meaning that 5% percent of the time, the "true" result would fall outside of the range indicated.)

Gallup/USA Today
  Obama 48-54%
  Clinton 36-42%

Gallup Tracking
  Obama 44-50%
  Clinton 42-48%

There's more overlap in the Obama ranges than in the Clinton ranges but it would be possible for both polls to be "correct."

(And people wonder why I argue you shouldn't use exit polling data to estimate the number of registered Democrats voting for a particular candidate.)


by kjblair2 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:32:55 PM EST

Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- Acco (none / 0)

CNN's new poll has Obama moving ahead in Texas.


by CB Todd on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:49:12 PM EST

Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- Acco (none / 0)

And he's already in the lead in pollster's poll of polls for Texas http://www.pollster.com/08-TX-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php


by mainelib on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

According to Gallup (none / 0)

Hasn't it become clear by now that polls are pretty much useless?  They are all over the map, and frequently dead wrong.  I ignore them.


by global yokel on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:12:36 PM EST

Re: According to Gallup (2.00 / 0)

I look to them for general trends but there's no sense getting all worked up over a single poll or a couple of percentage points.


by kjblair2 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: According to Gallup (none / 0)

I agree.  I think they're good for showing trends and momentum over a long stretch, but not to good for much else.

Oh, and they're good for beating supporters of the other candidate of the head with.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 01:23:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Leads By 12 Point -- or 2 Points -- Acco (none / 0)

CBS Poll has Obama up 16 on Clinton - 12 on McCain
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/2 5/opinion/polls/main3874915.shtml
Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 07:09:15 PM EST

Super Tuesday (none / 0)

Remember this, folks. On Super Tuesday, the Gallup tracking poll had Clinton up by 13 points. In fact, Gallup registered a major jump for Clinton that day alone - I believe it was Hillary up 17. Yet, half the nation voted that day (though some much earlier) and gave the candidates 50-50.  It is impossible to square the Gallup tracker with what happened on Tuesday except to say that their likely voter model was completely off, or they just got a terrible sample that day. Since then, I've ignored the Gallup tracker.


by elrod on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 08:55:12 PM EST

Re: Super Tuesday (none / 0)

I think that a component of the Obama base is one pollsters aren't used to and that the polling outfits aren't quit sure how to see them.

Also, the Hilary demographic is becoming increasingly lopsided which makes traditional contact methods inaccurate.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 01:26:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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