Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio

The new Quinnipiac poll (741 LVs, Feb. 18-23, MOE +/- 3.6%) and University of Cincinatti Ohio Poll (529 LVs, Feb. 21-24, MOE +/- 4.3%) show Hillary Clinton seems to be holding onto a lead of about 10% over Barack Obama in this crucial state.

CandidateOhio Poll 2/21-24Quinnipiac 2/18-23 (2/6-12)RCP 5-poll Ave.
Clinton4751 (55)49.6
Obama3940 (34)41.0

A couple caveats though: the Quinnipiac poll was taken over an especially long 6-day period including 1 day prior to Obama's Wisconsin win, and it should be noted, the results represent a net gain of 10% for Obama just in the last few weeks. In addition, the Ohio poll for some reason still appears to be polling John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich, who get 9% and 2% in the poll respectively with an additional 4% undecided. Clearly, most of those people will ultimately vote for Clinton or Obama, in what proportions is unclear.

But still this signals some good news for Clinton to the extent that the results may represent a stanching of the bleeding. Just a couple of weeks ago, Clinton held unambiguous double-digit leads in Ohio over Obama, which had shrunk to as little as 7% in recent days. A 10% or so win next Tuesday would be considered decisive for Hillary Clinton and would fuel her claim to a mandate to continue her campaign.

If the polls do reflect a solidifying of support for Clinton in Ohio, one wonders what is driving it. Is it conciliatory Clinton of the debate on Thursday or is it fighter Clinton of the stump over the weekend? We should get a sense of the shifting dynamics of the race in the coming days, as the two candidates debate once again, this time actually in Ohio, tomorrow night. In the meantime, perhaps the endorsement of an Akron, Ohio newspaper, a rare occurrence for Clinton these days, will serve as further evidence of some momentum in Ohio, a week out.



Display:


Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Or, is it a picture of Obama dressed in ethnic garb?

Seriously, did the Clinton campaign leak that picture?


by rfahey22 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:21:46 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Yes, they leaked it.

Did you know Barack's middle name is Hussein? I bet they paid Jon Stewart last night at the Oscar's to announce it to America.


by njsketch on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Holding Steady?

Looks Like Barack Hussein Obama is catching up to me. In a Week Ohio will be a dead heat, and Obama will be up in Texas.


by rapcetera on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:47:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Maggie Williams' statement takes several lines talking about how Obama making a big deal out of this is distracting from the real issues ...
But does not deny at any point their sending it.

Draw your own conclusions.


by Benjaminomeara on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

That's some awfully pathetic spin.


by rfahey22 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:31:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Can you post the location of comments on this by the Clinton campaign?

Thanks.


by mady on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:35:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/02/25/ politics/fromtheroad/entry3872979.shtml

Found it.


by mady on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:40:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

Sorry, posted too soon.  This is just wrong:

"Clinton's campaign manager Maggie Williams said, in a written statement, "Enough," adding that just because it's being circulated doesn't mean it's being done so in an underhanded way.

"If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed. Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely," Williams continued."

I've been the first to decry evil campaign stuff against HIllary, I hope some of her supporters can do the same with this kind of thing.


by mady on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:42:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

What are you clamoring about now?

A photo!

OOOOOOOO, scary.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:50:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

C'mon, Zeit, you know exactly why such a photo would be leaked.  Otherwise, why would they disseminate photos of Obama in the first place?  Do they think he's sexy?


by rfahey22 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:51:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

I think he's sexy. And Fred Armisen does a good sexy of him, too.

I'm f*cked up.

No, but seriously, it's a photo. Why are y'all so scared about it?


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:54:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

'cos it plays into the "Obama is a muslim" lie that is around the Internets...

The purpose of releasing such a photo is clear... inspire racist fear in voters, so they are more likely to vote for the white candidate...

I never thought I'd see the day a Democrat would do that to another Democrat.... or anyone, for that matter....


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

I'm just asking a question here.

All of y'all are getting so defensive it's like it's silly season in politics or something.

So, here's wearing traditional Somali dress. I don't understand why Obama's supporters have to get defensive like this. The level of defensiveness astounds me because it's just a photo that front-and-center on the Drudge Report. Hillary has been front-and-center on the Drudge Report throughout the campaign, frequently with the headline that her campaign was on life support.

So I really don't understand why a photo of a public figure being front-and-center on the Drudge Report for everyone to observe, ponder and consider is so offensive and dirty.

Let's not be silly here!


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Oh, C'mon.  You know exactly why this photo was shopped around - to throw fuel on the 'obama=muslim' fire.

My hand is still outstretched.  There's a nice seat right up here in the front of the bus for when you are ready.


by Cycloptichorn on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:19:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

I would mojo you for being just so conciliatory, but I then I would be agreeing your statement in toto.

We'll shake hands, some day, but not today because I don't have time. I'm observing a black guy who's running for president and is dressed like a Muslim.

Scary!


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

Well, you know it is scary to some people.  Not everyone is on the 'nets as much as us political types.  And you know that's why it was done.  And you know it was a bad idea.


by Cycloptichorn on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:30:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Zeitgeist,

Your faux incomprehension is as pathetic as that photo.

I look forward to you joining up with us on March 5th, because that is when her campaign will be over.


by swarty on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Here is a question.  I know Barak has spent time in Africa visiting various nations, but has he spent any time with the troops in either Iraq or Afganistan?


by Scope441 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Why was Hillary crying considered a smear, I mean don't we want our public officials to show emotion, wiait what's that it played into smears, huh you mean things don't always only have a surface meaning?


by Socraticsilence on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Why do you think they're sending it around?


by TL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:32:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Give me a break... the intent is clear... continue the smear and lie that Obama is a muslim to inspire racism amongst voters...  The intent is clear... and it's dirty politics that should be reserved for Republicans, not people in our own party....


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:56:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

I remember Roselyn Carter's statement about why Reagan had such enormous appeal:  "He made us comfortable with our prejudices."  I have posted when things that were incredibly sexist were said about Hillary Clinton and her supporter.  This is the same kind of issue going the other way.  It is not a small thing, anymore than the "shrll, harpy" comments were.  They were all wrong, all really evil to me.  It's not just a photo anymore than it was "just a neutral statement" (the harpy stuff).  Don't for a minute think that this garbage does not damage all of us.  


by mady on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

Can we expect another open thread "On Shame"?  Somehow, I'm not holding my breath.


by rfahey22 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:50:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

did the Clinton campaign leak that picture?

Brilliant move by the Clintons.  Probably came at the suggestion of the Obama campaign.

These pictures exist and McCain will be trying to rile up racial animus with them in October.

By getting them out now and without Obama's fingerprints on the leak they will be defused.  It's even better that it happens right before Ohio, the linchpin swing state of 2004.

Obama will be able to respond and clear up several irrelevant points some voters will worry about:

*Obama isn't a black nationalist.
*Obama isn't a Moslem.
*Obama doesn't dress like that.

Great cooperation between Obama and the Clintons as they close up their campaign.


Read Brian's Utah Weblog
by Brian Watkins on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:03:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Close up?

"We're just getting warmed up!"


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Win or lose, she's got to campaign with class.

This ain't that.


by TL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:33:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Rather than be upset about this, I am going to look at it the same way as Brian Watkins. It's simply Hillary helping Barack get any potential Republican attacks defused now!

Yeah, thats the ticket.

Its either that, or accept that Hillary is sinking lower than any of her GOP detractors ever did to her. I have a had time accepting that, so Brian's theory, while probably not very likely, is what I am going to chose to believe today.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Actually, I would agree that it's good this card is being played now, in February.


by rfahey22 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

A couple of other caveats:

Saturday's bitter scolding
Sunday's silly mocking
Monday's hamfisted oppo.
Tuesday's debate


by swarty on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:25:24 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

It's 'cos Ohians are notoriously stubborn... We are more than willing to but off our nose to spite our face!  We've done it many times before... Voting against the Thrid Frontier initiative is one that I remember with pain... that could have really helped this economy...  but...

I think there are a few other factors in play here...

While NAFTA destroyed Ohio, the effect was delayed.  The late 90's were the last "good times" this state has enjoyed, and I think that they remember the Bill Clinton era with fondness, 'cos since then, the state's been a complete wreck.

The state is notoriously conservative... The Republican party should have been wiped out by the scandals over the past few years, but they are still quite strong here.  Hillary is considered to be the more "conservative" of the candidates (although I disagree on that), so she gets the nod...

Ohio still has a lot of racial issues.  Cleveland, for example, is the most racially segregated city  in the country.  It is not uncommon for even educated, cultural people to make off the cuff, openly racist remarks and not think twice about it.  Unfortunately, I think that is a factor here as well.


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:34:07 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Most segregated in the country?  That's amazing.


by rfahey22 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:36:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Yes, unfortunately, I don't have a link... but, it was reported in the Plain Dealer about a year or two ago...

The city itself is very segregated.  The east side is about 90% African American, while the west side is only about 10% (although rising, as of recently).

The metropolitan areas are also very segregated.  There are many east side suburbs which are 99% black.  If you look at school district records, Maple Heights is 90% African American, Warrensville Heights is 99.9% African American... (only three white students in the ENTIRE school system)... Bedford 80%... Cleveland Heights 80%...  The only neighborhood that is truly integrated is Shaker with 50%...  they are having their own problems...  They were once a model for integration, but some recent very violent crime is threatening the integration experiment there.  Orange and University Heights are also pretty integrated.  Orange stands out as an example, since it is also a very high income neighborhood.

Now, go got he west side... Lakewood is the most integrated at about 25%... Every other suburb west of the Cuyahoga does not even come close to breaking the 10% barrier.  Rocky River (notoriously snooty and white), North Olmsted, Westlake, even poor Berea, which has 30% of their students in poverty is almost all white!  There is a reason why they call Fairview Park, FairFace park!  The entire west side is as white as the driven snow!

So, we have our own issues here...  


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:48:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

I grew up in South Florida, and it's exactly the same way.  Even among so-called liberals, the out-in-the-open racism is shocking.  


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:40:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 4)

Since when is dropping 10 points in roughly two weeks 'holding steady?'


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:34:10 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

I'm waiting to hear the answer to that question myself.

Though... on one hand - I certainly got no problem with camp HRC setting the expectations game that high :-)


by zonk on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:38:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

In other news:

Wisconsin Close! Hillary only down 5, could be an upset!!!


Wiz in Hussein Wis
by Wiz in Wis on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Especially when they included a day before the WI primary and before the debate and the rant


by barbianFL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 4)

Dropping ten points in a week is not steady... you rarely see such a drop in campaigns.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:35:18 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Meh.  I'll await the new SurveyUSA poll out of Ohio.  Still, Clinton has to do much better than 10 points if she wants to put a dent in Obama's pledged delegate lead.


by RussTC3 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:35:34 AM EST

Who's Race-Baiting Now? (2.00 / 1)

Hillary supporters have been crying "race baiting" ever since the South Carolina flap over Bill Clinton's MLK comments.  The leak of the picture of Obama in African garb is clearly a race-baiting move, and the Clinton team isn't even denying they leaked it.

All's fair in politics, I guess, but the Clinton crybabies can all go ahead and get down off their high horses now.


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:36:43 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

There are some strange crosstabs in the University of Cincinnati poll.  One is the obvious one that Todd mentions with the Edwards 9% number.  Everything we've seen since February 5th has had Edwards getting between 1% and 2%.  If you look at the crosstabs, the vast majority of Edwards support is from the over 50 age group.  Looking soley at that, it seems that Hillary would get the majority of that support.  One the other hand, the African American split is 75-25, whereas the split recently has been more like 80-20 or 90-10 so this seems to be understating Obama's support.  Also, what's curious is the split with the 18-29 year olds.  They have it tied at 49% - 49%.  Again, that seems to underestimate Obama's support.

All in all, it looks to be a comfortable, albeit not sizable, lead for Clinton and it seems to slowly going in Obama's direction.  I'm sure with these numbers that the Clinton campaign wishes the primary was tomorrow rather than a week from tomorrow.


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:37:31 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Hillary drops 10% in one week and that is good news for Clinton? My god! The Clinton campaign leaking the photo of OBama in a Muslim costume is even below fox news' standards of decency.


by mecarr on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:39:29 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

"Farrakhan hearts Obama:

Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan set Barack Obama up for a Sister Souljah Moment on Sunday.

While Farrakhan didn"t endorse Obama, he spent most of his almost two-hour Saviors" Day celebration speech praising him.

"This young man is the hope of the entire world that America will change and be made better," said the 74-year-old Farrakhan. "This young man is capturing audiences of black and brown and red and yellow. If you look at Barack Obama"s audiences and look at the effect of his words, those people are being transformed."

Farrakhan pointed out that the Nation of Islam"s founder, Fard Muhammad, also had a white mother and black father. "A black man with a white mother became a savior to us. A black man with a white mother could turn out to be one who can lift America from her fall."

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/share d-blogs/ajc/thinkingright/index.html

Um, I think I will stick with Clinton.


by gotalife on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:40:12 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Right, a guy Obama has already denounced endorsing him is a valid reason to vote against Obama.  Interesting.  


by HSTruman on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:46:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 3)

The "Exploit The Uppity Negro" strategy, a time-honored Clinton tradition.  


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:47:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

Do you also take part in those "who would Osama vote for" debates over at Fox?


by rfahey22 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:49:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

"Some things it's best to get out early in politics. John McCain's association, allegedly romantic, with a lobbyist was one. Farrakhan's embrace of Barack Obama is another."

Is this the best leadership our country has to offer?

My goodmess, a lobbyist lover and a liberal radical.

No thanks.

I will support Clinton.  


by gotalife on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:16:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 3)

I'll take a liberal radical over a DLC appeaser

Any. Day. Of. The. Week.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 2)

This is what is so interesting, and very likely devastating, about a black man running for president. "Gotalife" equates John McCain's questionable deals with lobbyists, of which there seems to be significant evidence and of which he has a history, to Louis Farrakhan's compliment of Barack Obama. It is very likely that McCain breeched ethics or, at the very least, it has been shown that all his talk of being the anti-lobbyist is just a cynical (and effective) ploy. But, Obama actually was not a player in this comparison, he DID nothing. And yet, "Gotalife" writes that he will not vote for Obama because of what Farrakhan said. What's the problem here? What's REALLY the problem here? Race. It must be understood that there will be very significant differences in standards that will be applied when considering the candidacies of the two men and the reason is because one is white and one is black. To deny that is absurd. To acknowledge and confront it is vital if this presidential race is going to be about where the candidates stand on issues and not about how our internalized bigotry will get in the way of seeing a man for who he is, and voting accordingly.


by LFL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Nice attempt at spin.

Hillary looses half her lead in Ohio in about a week and you are saying it looks good for her?

Early voting in Texas looks like a tidal wave for Obama.

Last Thursday it was, "I am honored to be on this stage with Barack Obama."

Saturday was, "shame on you Barack Obama."

Sunday it was, "let's mock not only Obama but all of his supporters."

We are watching the death throws of Clintonism.  Tactical maneuvering taken to such an extreme it looks like she is bi-polar and off her meds.

I was hoping she would summon the courage to go out with grace and style.  Instead she will go out with nastiness, tactical maneuvering, and a death grip on her own ambition.


by upper left on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:41:20 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Pride cometh before the fall but for arrogance the abyss opens wide.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:49:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is going over the cliff (none / 0)

Maggie Williams:

"This is nothing more than an obvious and transparent attempt to distract from the serious issues confronting our country today and to attempt to create the very divisions they claim to decry."

More of the "Team Hillary pot" attempting to call the "Obama kettle black."  Disgusting.

Anyone who is willing to defend this garbage is either blind or a fool.  Clinton appears to be willing to damage our party in a vain attempt to sate her own appetite for power.


by upper left on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:51:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has used Rove's tactics before (none / 0)

And this is right out of the Rovian playbook. I would not be at all surprised if this came from Obama's camp to gin up some faux outrage.


by ineedalife on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:11:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More vague assertions (none / 0)

This seems to be a specialty of the Clinton camp:  accuse your opponent of doing what you do in order to justify your sleazy tactics.

Support your assertion, or look at the reality of how badly your candidate is behaving.


by upper left on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Classic projection (none / 0)

People always others of what they themselves are doing.  Always.


Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven?
by NM Ward Chair on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 3)

So funny: A tale of two websites:

DailyKos headline for post about the same two polls:

"Polls: Race Tightening in Ohio"

MyDD headline for the exact same polls:

"Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio"

For myself, it's hard for me to see losing half of your lead in two weeks as "holding steady" but maybe that's just me.


by dmc2 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:42:01 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Well, to be fair, the trend towards Obama is "holding steady" should be around tie-land on the 4th

But it won't matter cause he'll win Texas by 10


Wiz in Hussein Wis
by Wiz in Wis on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clearly... (2.00 / 2)

you are still in the denial stage, Hillary has already moved on to anger judging by her weekend tirades. Obama has narrowed the gap by 10 points in Ohio. It's hard to see how this is "good" news for Clinton, especially when you consider that Obama outperformed the polls in WI by a wide margin.

Next steps: bargaining, depression, acceptance.


by rebop on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:43:25 AM EST

Re: Clearly... (none / 0)

Bargaining:  But if we promise to be really, really good, will some of you superdelegates switch over?  And can we count Michigan and Florida pretty please?

Depression: Well, it looks like we'll be getting President McCain.  I'm voting for Nader.  Pass me another Mickey's Big Mouth.

Acceptance: Well, I guess I better do what's right for the party and the country and vote for Obama.


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:53:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I Suppose the Titanic Sailed "Steady" (2.00 / 1)

Todd, Clinton lost about 1 point per day in the Q poll. As several commenters have noted, there's nothing steady about that.

"A 10% or so win next Tuesday would be considered decisive for Hillary Clinton and would fuel her claim to a mandate to continue her campaign."

No, it wouldn't necessarily. Not if Clinton loses Texas.


by BBCWatcher on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:43:57 AM EST

a 10 point change in the last two weeks = stasis? (2.00 / 2)

using what kind of math?


by Teaser on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:44:29 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

"Holding steady." That's a laugh. The Clinton folks who believe winning Ohio by a few points is enough are deluding themselves. Even if she continues to "hold steady" and wins Ohio by eight points she'll pick up 15 delegates at most. That will reduce Obama's committed delegate lead to about 140. And it certainly won't make up for the blowout Obama's going to administer in Texas.
by Katman on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:44:42 AM EST

A Win is not a WIN.. (1.00 / 1)

Folks...one thing to keep in mind here.  While a "win" of ANY kind is preferrable for the HRC campaign, the FACT is that a simple 10 point win is not enough.

If she fails to blow Obama out by more than 25 points (gove or take), she STILL is well behind Barack in pledged delgates.  Without hte landslides, she cant catch up.

The HRC camp knows this of course which is why they are throwing everything at him including it seems the photo.

I beleive that this stuff may have more to do with making sure she can raise the 5 million she needs to pay herself back than it does "winning".


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:47:37 AM EST

Re: A Win is not a WIN.. (none / 0)

A win will be a win.

No one has ever come back and claimed a big state contest after losing 11 straight....

It will be seen as a victory in the MSM no matter if it's 1% or 100%.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:52:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Win is not a WIN.. (none / 0)

Doesn't do her much good if she gets pummeled mercilessly in Texas on the same day.  She needs to win BIG in BOTH states.  If she fails to win big in both places, she'll have to resort to weasel tactics, and even that won't be enough.


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:57:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Win is not a WIN.. (none / 0)

She's already resorting to weasel tactics, which will likely hurt her.  (nice term, BTW)


Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven?
by NM Ward Chair on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:02:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Win is a WIN.. (none / 0)

..... but it will not change the delegate count.  

Even if Clinton claws and scratches her way to a narrow win in Ohio, it is not going to change the meta-story of Obama's momentum unless she wins in both Ohio and Texas, and will not help her in NC.

Even if she could turn the momentum which seems extremely unlikely, she is running out of states to change the overall pledged delegate math.  Gary Hart won most of the late primaries in 1984 but could not overcome Mondale's lead.  


by upper left on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Win is a WIN.. (none / 0)

FL and MI must be added back in.

It's not like Obama has a two hundred-plus pledged delegate lead. After all this, it's 9% separating the two.

And we have yet to add MI and FL back in....


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Win is a WIN.. (none / 0)

"Must be"?

Wishful thinking.

They'll be represented in some fashion or whatever, but seating the delegates like that isn't going to happen. That's just wishful thinking on yout part.


- Sam Hussein Longhorn
by LonghornSam on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:33:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Win is a WIN.. (2.00 / 1)

Regarding adding MI and FL, here was a comment I posted in a recent thread"

"I gotta give it up to you folks:  you are doing a great job of framing an attempted "coup d'etat" as "enfranchising voters."  

Let me make an analogy: three-quarters of the way through the season you want to change the rules and count the exhibition games as part of the regular season.  How do you think that would work in the NFL or the NBA?  The rules are the rules.  Hillary and her team agreed to those rules, as did Obama, and the other 48 states.  There is a word for what Team Hillary is proposing it is called "cheating."  To change the rules at this point will have two effects:

1) It will make a complete mockery of the entire nomination process.

2) It will blow-up the entire Dem party.  The anger that will be felt by the majority of Dems who have voted for Obama will be so visceral and profound that Hillary would almost certainly loose in November.  Millions will probably stay home, more will vote for McCain, more will vote for Nader. Not only will HRC likely loose, but down-ballot Dems will be hurt by the drop in turn-out.

If this is the only way that Clinton can win the nomination, it will not be worth having.  Any one  who supports a strategy that will destroy our party is either blind, or stupid, or both."


by upper left on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Win is a WIN.. (none / 0)

I think those are your sentiments are yours alone.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Try having a substantive discussion (none / 0)

Look, I am willing to have a reasonable discussion with you if you are wiling to respond to the substance of my posts and if you are willing to back up your assertions with some evidence or analysis.

Cheer leading for your candidate is not analysis.

Do you honestly think that Clinton could overturn a substantial deficit in pledged delegates without causing an enormous rift in the party?  Think ahead, what will be the consequences of the action you are supporting?  HRC would loose and so would many down-ballot Dems.  If you disagree explain why.


by upper left on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Try having a substantive discussion (none / 0)

Look at the MyDD counter with FL and MI included.

She's ahead!


by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Talk about balancing a poll! (2.00 / 3)

Todd Beeton's fair and balance title: "Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio"

the link to the actual Quinniac poll, which to his credit he provides: "February 25, 2008 - Obama Gains On Clinton In Ohio Dem Primary Quinnipiac University Likely Voter Poll Finds; College-Educated Voters In Big Shift To Obama"

Quinnipac own analysis of their poll:

Buoyed by a big shift among college-educated voters, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama is gaining on New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, who now leads 51 - 40 percent among Ohio likely Democratic primary voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

This compares to a 55 - 34 percent Clinton lead in a February 14 likely voter poll by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University. College-educated voters back Sen. Obama 58 - 33 percent, compared to a 46 - 41 percent Clinton lead with these voters February 14.

On the eve of the only televised debate between the two Democratic contenders in Ohio and just one week before the crucial March 4 primary, Sen. Clinton's large margins among women, 53 - 36 percent; older voters, whites and those without a college education keep her out front.

"Sen. Clinton's lead remains substantial, but the trend line should be worrisome for her in a state that even her husband, former President Bill Clinton, has said she must win," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "A week is an awful long time in politics to be playing defense, but one thing going in her favor is that she is viewed more favorably than is he by Ohio likely Democratic primary voters.

"Sen. Obama, to no one's surprise given his momentum nationally, has made inroads, especially among some of Sen. Clinton's softer supporters," said Brown. "If she is to stop his momentum in Ohio, she must retain her margins among her core backers - women, older voters and those lower on the social-economic and education scale."

"For instance, while she held leads of four points and 27 points among likely primary voters below and over age 45 respectively earlier this month, now she trails by 52 - 42 percent among the younger group and her margin has shrunk to 55 - 35 percent among older voters," said Brown.


by adilla on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:54:53 AM EST

Only here (2.00 / 1)

Could losing 10 points be considered holding steady. If Clinton had added 10 points to her lead would it still have been considered holding steady? I suspect not.


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:58:20 AM EST

Another draw... (none / 0)

...winning OH and RI while losing TX and VT, will go to the frontrunner, Obama.  
Her best case scenario is winning 3 out of 4.
From there, she can make a real effort in Wyoming, downplay Mississippi, and slug it out for 6 weeks on the way to Pennsylvania.

But if she barely wins Ohio and loses everywhere else, the narrative will be Obama wins big in Texas, Rhode Island, Vermont, Clinton hangs on to win in Ohio...not really promising for the Pennsylvania interval.

Obviously, if she loses all four states, she's done.  finito. kaput.  "do not resuscitate".


by megaplayboy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:59:23 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Losing ten points in so short a timespan is not a good sign for Camp Hillary.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:59:51 AM EST

Re: Steady as she blows... (2.00 / 1)

It might be pointed out this 50% drop in the lead was when Hillary was in Ohio and Obama was in Texas.


by Piuma on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:03:27 PM EST

Re: Steady as she blows... (none / 0)

Woah!  Use too many 'facts' and 'evidence points' and you will confuse the anti-Obama crowd.


by Cycloptichorn on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:17:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ROFLMAO! (n/t) (none / 0)


Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven?
by NM Ward Chair on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A WIN is a WIN (none / 0)

So if she WINs she will continue and the MO will change. it does not have to be 60-40.

+with all the press that BO has got why is he not ahead by now? Every day we read a headline her campaign is DEAD. If it is dead he should be leading in polls by 20 points like McCain is right?


by bayareasg on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:13:29 PM EST

Re: A WIN is a WIN (none / 0)

Yes so if he does not win the requite 50% delegates needed for the win. And is up by say 50 delegates. The super delegates can vote for anyone right? If i read the rules thats how it states in the RULE BOOK.


by bayareasg on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A WIN is a WIN (2.00 / 1)

Its already been widely reported that the vast majority of the supers have indicated their intent to support whomever wins the most pledged delegates. In fact, over the past few days about 20 or so Supers have announced their support for Sen Obama.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A WIN is a WIN (none / 0)

isn't this the same RULEBOOK that disqualifies Michigan and Florida...

double standard


Wiz in Hussein Wis
by Wiz in Wis on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:34:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is all in the plan (none / 0)

They purposely lost the previous 10 or so races, just to make these upcoming wins that much of a bigger story!!


by highgrade on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:14:25 PM EST

Re: This is all in the plan (none / 0)

No HRClost and thus BHO has the lead now and he is the CLEAR front runner but story can quickly change if he starts loosing TX, OH, PA. But thats a big IF she needs to WIN. If she looses the games over.


by bayareasg on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is all in the plan (none / 0)

Not just win.  She needs to win big, and the polls show her losing her leads.  A mere win is not a win.  It's a loss.


Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven?
by NM Ward Chair on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is all in the plan (none / 0)

That was actually the funniest part of SNL last week, the opening debate where the moderators pointed out that she lost WI and VA and Amy Poehler, in her best Hillary voice, explains that those wins dont matter because "It was always our intent to lose in Wisconsin" and that "It has always been a childhood dream of mine to get beaten badly in Virginia".


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:31:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

Obama camp falls for it again --

This is Robert Novak part II! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FUCKING COFFEE


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:23:11 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  What is the problem with taking offense against sleazy campaign tactics on either side?  If the Clinton campaign put out a straight denial I would believe it.  They have not. What exactly am I "falling for?"


by mady on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: De nial (none / 0)

De nial ....... is not a river in Egypt.

Wake up and at least have the integrity to admit that your candidate is behaving very badly.


by upper left on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: De nial (none / 0)

Not just denial.  It's an hallucination.  Did the poster inhale?  /snark


Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven?
by NM Ward Chair on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: De nial (none / 0)

Cept it wasnt brought forward by the clinton camp, same with the Robert Novak deal.

But you keep trying to blame Hillary for everything.

Go on, keep using DRUDGE as your source


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 08:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

I just saw Hillary's "spoof" of Obama for the first time.  She has really lost it.  Up to now she had more or less maintained her dignity, but what the Clinton team is attempting right now is just sad.  I don't think it's going to work, either-- I bet Obama pulls out a squeaker in Ohio and dominates in Texas.

Game, set, match.


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:26:11 PM EST

Re: Hillary Holding Steady/Losing Ground in Ohio (none / 0)

I'm not as optimistic as you are, but I agree that Clinton has lost it.  Mocking your Democratic competitor is not smart.  It pisses other Democrats off.  It will bite her in the *ss.

My projection is that Hillary narrowly wins OH in a way that does not net her many more delegates than Obama, and narrowly loses TX, whose hybrid primary/caucus system nets Obama more delegates.

Remember people, Hillary is losing right now, and she doesn't just need to win OH and TX.  She needs to win them big.  I just don't see that happening.


Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven?
by NM Ward Chair on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:47:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

if your gonna vote to punish, make it a two-fer

Vote McCain


Wiz in Hussein Wis
by Wiz in Wis on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:32:50 PM EST

WP on poll: "Clinton Lead Shrinking" (2.00 / 1)

The Washington Post has a story about the Quinnipiac poll today, but they interpret the poll as showing Clinton losing ground, pointing out that "a Feb. 14 survey by the same organization showed her ahead by 21 points." One reason is a shift among college-educated voters:
Clinton led among college-educated voters by 5 points two weeks ago, but Obama is now ahead with that group by 25 points.

by baudelairien on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:34:51 PM EST

Re: WP on poll: "Clinton Lead Shrinking" (none / 0)

Snooty, latte-drinking, Prius-driving elites, no doubt.

Hillary's playing to the lowest common denominator in Ohio, which admittedly is probably her best shot.  No wonder she's losing college-educated voters.


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

If you really do that you will have lost all of your credibility as someone who believes in what Obama campaigns for.  If he loses he will support Hillary.  Why not do the same.  Beats McCain by a million miles.  Why would you want to throw your vote to the fruitcake (and yes, long ago I had enormous respect for Nader, long gone) who took the election from us in 2000?


by mady on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:40:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

This is gonna be so sweet when Team Clinton blows this 20+ point lead.  There's still a week to go-- who knows what other numbskullery Mark Penn will devise between now and then.

Worst.  Campaign team.  Ever.


by JK47 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:41:54 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

A 10 point win in OH nets roughly 14 delegates for Hillary.  TX is looking more and more like it will be at least a tie for Obama (and very likely will net him a few delegates).

So my question is, even if Clinton pulls off a 10 point win in OH, how does this really justify a continuation when she's likely to net at the very most 20 delegates on March 4th (and that's being generous).  Perhaps she'll justify it to herself to go on, but it will still basically look futile.  She needs far more than a 10 point win in OH, and likely TX, in order to seriously consider winning the nomination.    


by leshrac55 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:52:33 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

and if you figure in vermont and nH, obama might pull out a net 10 delegates there (if you consider that if R.I. does in fact go to Obama, we may see some supers switch to him).

March 5th could result in a draw. Whatever the case, it's increasingly looking like Hillary won't make up much ground, even in a best case scenerio.


!
by alex100 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:07:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

NH? Obama already lost that. RI and VT could split, but that still wouldn't net many, if any delegates for Clinton. Clinton needs big big wins, and right now it doesn't look like it's movng in her direction.


by leshrac55 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:57:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

the Q poll is still not getting the black vote correct. Obama will easily get at least 80% of the black vote in Ohio.


!
by alex100 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:03:32 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Holding Steady in Ohio (none / 0)

todd, if i were you, i'd stop hoping for the best. You're posts have been severely wrong. Every. Single. Time. Your shifting scale of perceived success is transparent as well.

a 10 point win in OH is no mandate to continue. Especially if she loses Texas (I predict she'll lose the smaller March 5th states by a comfortable margin). It's sad that as the polls bring more and more bad news (read latino story in todays NYT) the more modest your mission.

aren't you sick of being wrong?


!
by alex100 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:23:10 PM EST


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