maybe you weren't watching the same debates as others .

but i'll guarantee you , you would be seeing the replay of her answer to the last question.

spin is already out... it will be all about the xerox comment tomorrow (is tonight on the net)

tough luck... actually its really not. what a stupid comment. got her nothing and gave the press a great title to focus on

No offense but your diaries kind of suck. They're basically thinly veiled anti clinton pieces.

Cinton needed to hit a grand slam and she came up short.

We are to the point where there is only one person in the world who can defeat Obama for the nomination. That person is Barack Obama.

My hope is, when the nonmination is determined (and it will be determined before the end of March), Hillary simply suspends her campaign and stays in the background to pick up the pieces if Obama defeats himself.

Obama was probably tired from being on Nyquil for that head cold.  He came across as OK and in command on television and he was allowed to give longer answers.  He just doesn't think or speak in 30 second sound bites.  Sitting down is a positive for him, I think it makes him more relaxed than standing at a lecturn.

He got in one of the basic rationales for his candidacy over Clinton at least twice.  That is, that Clinton can come up with the greatest plans in the world but how will she rally public opinion and get these plans through Congress by doing things the same way they have been done for the last 20 years.  

The audience had very high energy and was obviously highly appreciative of seeing in person a close up comparison between two great candidates at the tail end of one of the most hotly contested and epic nomination battles in American history.  I would have been on my feet too.  

Some ideas for future posts.  Do you have any sense of the strength of the two field operations?  Is Texas too big for two weeks of intense field work to make any appreciable difference?  If you were running each campaign in Texas, what would you do?  Can Obama get south and west Texas districts under 62.5%?

If anyone in Texas cares about the health care issue, they can't be happy with Obama's response last night.  It was utterly incoherent, and not just because he was rattled by the Xerox hit.  He didn't seem to understand his own proposal, and it showed.

is saying the plagiarism charge against Obama is officially a "dead" issue.  They show the Hillary's "xerox" line and then point out that the audience was booing.  The MSM are all pointing out that the people didn't like that charge.  Based upon the media's spin of that moment, I think that issue is no longer in play for Hillary.

Also, FOX News is even showing that a passage that Hillary said last night sounds similar to Edward's.

Overall, I think that both parties did do well in the debate.  Obama did look tired but also he looked presidential.  As a result, the debate was essentially a "draw".

I actually applaud Hillary for not being too negative.  She looked better for doing that.

In all, this debate is a half a day story because there was no knock out.

I was struck when Clinton, handed the question about whether Obama was ready to be commander and chief, passed completely and talked instead about health care

hmm, maybe its because they didnt let her respond and cut to commercial?

THey did that a few times

Again, i think she clearly won the last question, but for the vast majority of the debate Obama came out looking better, especially when Hillary attacked.

Grades

Obama: A-
Clinton: B

I kept hearing Hillary's answers being parroted by Obama. I was stung also when as Hillary would be giving an answer, they would interrupt to commercial. That happened more than once but it was during the answer on Hillary's view of him as not ready to be commander in chief that burned me. That was an important question and she wasn't able to finish. She clearly is ready. Obama will have to depend on this "youth" vote actually getting involved and willing to make sacrifices they can't imagine. I'm sorry, but Obama's campaign is really about how all these young people are able to organize on the net. Obama rallys give them a chance to meet. When the REAL WORK needs to be done. Do you think they'll be around? They talk about change, but Bush is all they know. They were all of 11 or 12 years old when Clinton was in office. They've bought the Republican narrative just as planned. When things really get hard, as in dealing with the Congress, where will they be?

Glenn,

That comment is just so sad.  Think if I said that Hillary's poor working class supporters and older women voters will be so burdened by their difficult lives to come forward and support he plans for America after the election.  That would be a stupid rationale to vote for Obama.

Her answers often parroted his when he went first. They have a lot of very similar plans for America you see.  The reason the Health Care debate dragged on is because it is one true area of difference between them.

...for her decision to be classy, rather than nasty at least when appearing with Obama.

You could just tell that the "Xerox" comment was something she didn't come up with and what's more...I doubt her heart was in having ot say it. Had she NOT said it...I think she may have changed some minds, but on the whole, she failed to lay a glove on Obama.

Her last comment had the feeling of someone who has seen what the tea leaves at the bottom of the cup are saying. She clearly is not interested in fighting all the way to the convention, and if she fails to beat Barack by 20 points or more, I expect she'll throw in the towel.

re: plagiarism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-l Po&eurl=http://dailykos.com/

pass it along!

Glenn: Thanks for the in-person report from the debate.

Overall, I'm shocked by how few people are saying what struck me as last night unfolded, the thing that Olbermann mentioned: HRC was auditioning for the VP slot.  She didn't go after him when given a huge opportunity on his readiness to do the job.  Even the lame xerox line felt to me like one last essentially pro forma attack, the equivalent of a football team that's down 21 points at the two-minute warning trying to complete an 80-yard pass.

I've heard talking heads refer to polls that say mainstream Dems (i.e. the ones that don't hang out on sites like this and aren't nearly as polarized as most of us are) are overwhelmingly in favor of Obama and Clinton running together.  I believe the number is something like 80%.  I think that would be a fantastic ticket (BHO = JFK, HRC = LBJ), and that in November they would humiliate McCain and anyone he chose for a running mate.

I thought it was a great performance by both candidates, the xerox answer the only low point. She should have dropped that line after saying that words should be your own. That would have been harsh but not so scripted and lame. I think that Olberman was way over reaching with the VP/resignation speculation but there definitely was something unusually conciliatory in the "honored" gesture. But overall the party should be confident that we had the best candidates with the best competition and our nominee, likely Obama, will be ready.

please note: Obmama took HER hand; she wasn't offering it at first, merely gesticulating ~

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S26CAtlMrqo

Obama knew she scored with that, and he kept trying to get one last word in.  Oh, Barack ~ let her have her last moment.

conciliatory in the "honored" gesture

Hillary knows she is not going anywhere.  it seemed to me that she believes, as I do, that if Obama is the nominee we will lose.  she wants to be there in 2012.
I dont expect many fireworks from here on out.  either she wins or she doesnt and she probably becomes the senate majority leader and becomes what Teddy Kennedy was to Jimmy Carter.

I'm still holding out for Chris Dodd in this position...somehow I feel his priorities are more in line with mine.  I really came out of this campaign with a much warmer feeling toward him and Joe Biden, and I hope they both end up a little higher up the ladder than where they started.

One indicator of the shallowness of the political conversation in this country is the notion that Hillary somehow "knocked it out of the park" or person managed to change the entire tenor of the campaign with her closing response last night.  Walter Shapiro actually wrote a column in the WaPo with this premise.

Jeezus, are we so easily taken in and fooled that we might somehow alter our opinion of a candidate based on a single carefully scripted answer that was crafted by her staff?

Hillary shone when she spoke about her policy positions. Her weakest and most 'inauthentic' moments where when she half-heartedly floated the Xerox line and declined to unapologetically stand behind and justify her negative comments on the campaign trail about Obama's readiness. Obama's strongest moments were in deflating the empty suit, not ready charges and in making the plagiarism attack look petty and silly.

Hillary is at her best in these settings and if this was a debate club contest she would easily have won on points. In the context of what Hillary needed to accomplish the debate was fatal. The big take down everyone expected didn't happen. Obama exceeded the low bar set for him. Worst of all Obama was able to due serious damage to the 'all talk, no substance' charges and to frame the choice as between 2 candidates with very similar solutions but different ideas on how to assemble a coalition and mandate to make them reality. That is the framing that is most favorable to him.

Hillary's most impressive and authentic moment at the end seemed to be an acceptance that this might not go her way but that she would be there for the party and the parties candidate in November and she hoped that if Obama was the candidate that he would not let us down.

After this classy and professional performance by both candidates hopefully the nasty juvenile rhetoric by supporters on both sides online can get ratcheted  down a bit. I think Hillary is going to do her damnedest to win in TX and Ohio and there might be some sharp rhetoric but I don't see any desperate campaign of sleaze happening. Hillary has a future and it looks like whether or not she wins this, she is going to come out of it with her integrity and dignity intact. After March 4th we may have a nominee.

Her weakest and most 'inauthentic' moments where when she half-heartedly floated the Xerox

I would agree with this but I am still glad she said it.
it is the truth.  it might not help her win but that may not happen anyway.  some truth needs to be injected into this before the republican onslaught.

Hillary did great, and I thought her last moment was  honest and moving.   But I think that looking for a resurgence out of it is a mistake...in New Hampshire, we saw that some (far from all, but a meaningful subset) of Hillary's support comes from people who like her personally and don't want to see her hurt.  For them, her "we'll be fine" line might come across almost as tacit permission to move on.  

Like I said, not all of her support by any means.  But probably enough to offset any bump.  

it's "truth", but it's silly.

I would not necessarily argue with that.
it made me smile.  it must be unbelievably frustrating to be in her position.
I will give her one silly statement out of frustration.

Clinton herself aped lines from John Edwards AND Bill Clinton

as far as this is concerned, she credited Edwards and I dont really think she has to credit Bubba.
I actually thought one of her best lines was something like "if your candidacy is going to be about words they should at least be your own words"

"DALLAS, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The Secret Service told Dallas police to stop screening for weapons while people were still arriving at a campaign rally for Barack Obama, a report said."

This is the lead of am article posted in one of the diaries.  This is frightening.  This is the Secret Service deciding on our political future. I hope he hires some private security.  I was having trouble with the original link to the article but it is in the diary I mentioned.

"Several Dallas police officers -- speaking on condition of anonymity because the order came from federal officers -- told the newspaper it was worrying to see so many people get it without even a cursory inspection."

Hillary Clinton won this debate hands down.
You will hear the full Obama Spin slicing her whenever she does good.
Obama that Obama this.
Example,
When asked about using others words, Obama try to shake it off as it was unimportant.However if you were to listen to this man ramble on and,on and,on and,on, he leaves you the sense of "what the heck did he just say". He is definately a trained Kennedy Robotics creation.Some won't see this but the world can.

On Clinton part she may have been slightly booed on this issue,by Obambots, but they know this issue is going to hurt thier canadate.
You have to love Clinton's line"Change, you can Xerox".That sums up Obamaville.
Awesome.Clinton toyed and played with him right to the end.Then Slam,the knock out blow.
A standing ovation,the first of he campaign.Her last comment,precise,steady,touching,and personal,complimented with a goodwill jester to Obama was excellent. This is what a leader is suppose to do, and did.This knock out did,t take  45 minutes of marbles in the mouth rabbling and stumbling.it was delieved with compassion eloquently and thoughtfully.
In fact what she really did was to backdoor Obama at the very last minute and knock him flat on his back.If the Obama spin machine thinks hat this was a concession speech, they are really living in that "Fairytale Land"
On vey serious question has never been asked
"Would you place a rookie cop straight out of the acadamey, straight into the Police Chief's positions in city's like Huston Clevelans, Philadelphia, Los, Angeles, etc. Of course you would'nt. The why would you give an unexprienced,
untested, greenhorn,Senator,the nuke keys and the code, to the Button, that will end cilivization as we know it.

Hillary Clinton won this debate hands down.

At this point in the game, I'm not exactly sure what purpose these debates serve. Both candidates pretty much keep saying the same things we've heard in past debates. Both of them are so similar in their stands on issues that nothing concrete comes out of these events.
I don't think I can watch the next one - the repetition is gonna make my teeth hurt.

Maybe there is a bit of a difference between how exactly they spell out their plans for "universal healthcare" but keep in mind neither of these candidates will get their plan implemented without it being morphed into God-knows-what if at all.

Trying to pick a candidate between these two based on the differences in their "plans" just doesn't make sense. You need to make your decision based on other factors.

From the Hall, via parent's report... Hillary did not go over well.  There were boos, which CNN muted, when she talked about Kirk Watson on Hardball.  He is, after all, the extremely popular ex-mayor of Austin.  

They couldn't mute the boos, because they were too loud, on Xerox.

The last minute was good for Hillary they said... but the most powerful point of the Debate is when Obama said "That is why I'm running for President."

Honestly, I think if she had run like that and showed that kind of emotional honesty I would have had to think long and hard about my vote (instead of eagerly punching Obama, if it reaches MT), its sad and the same thing happened with Gore, its like the two people closest to Bill never got why he connected with the American people (his wonkishness was awesome, and I loved it, but for most people it was the sense that he cared).

Clinton can't go negative. Even the most mild, par-for-the-course campaign criticism of Obama's positions, statements and tactics -- suggesting, for instance, that a foreign policy strategy reveals "inexperience" or that a campaign claim is a "fairy tale" -- boomerangs because it is spun by both the media and the Obama camp as "vicious," "willing to do and say anything to get elected," an example of the "old" politics Obama is supposedly rising above, and, when it is useful to do so, "racist."

Obama, on the other hand, can freely attack not only her policies, record and experience, but can also, and on many occasions has, freely attack her in extremely personal, even disdainful and gender-loaded terms -- her character, her personality, etc., using the characterizations above, and worse (not just in response to things she has actually done or said, but as a routine effort to "raise her negatives")-- doing so not only without criticism from, but with the overt encouragement of, the media. If Clinton used similar personal and character attack tactics against Obama (the kind of tactics that are a routine part of his campaign despite his claim to be "turning the page" on such negative politics) in an attempt to "raise his negatives" it would incite a firestorm of criticism that would destroy her campaign.

A lot of the unusual constraint she has to operate under has to do with gender and the fact that as a culture we are made very uncomfortable with displays of assertiveness or "aggression" from women toward men. Race adds even more sensitivity. The other factor is simply the media's hostility to both Bill and Hillary Clinton, their perception that a win for her would be a win for him, and their determination to "put away" her campaign.  

She has made mistakes in this campaign -- almost always they have mistakes that simply did not take into account the unique constraints put on her by her gender. She can't campaign like the a guys, or allow Bill and other surrogates to campaign for her in traditional ways, without inciting overwhelming outrage and hostility. As the campaign has gone one, its been easy to see what hasn't work. But, no one really knows what will work for a woman campaigning at this level -- because no one has even come close before. It's an unprecedented, learn as you go situation.

Frankly, given the unprecedented nature of her campaign, she done amazingly well. Whether it is possible for her, or any woman, to go all the way to the nomination at this time in our history, seems more and more doubtful, given the extremes of gender hostility, even among so-called "progressives," that her candidacy has revealed. But coming so close to doing so, despite these unique and historic constraints, both tells us a lot about her strengths as a politician, and indicates some of Obama's weakness.

both for a brief bit on the teevee -- then on various news and talk radio stations (left, middle, right) on the drive in --

Her last line was universally hailed as a wonderful concession line.

Whether it was or not - that's the way the news and punditocracy played it.

Last night I saw AL GORE in both our candidates:

Hillary: Al Gore circa 2000
Obama:   Al Gore circa 2007

And by this I mean HRC is the policy wonk.  YEs we can agree tthat she knows a lot about policy...but this is less about scoring debate points than it is about connecting with voters.  Qualified to be President, yup...but she comes off poorly sometimes.

Obama, has found a way to reach voters while still managing to inspire and educate, hence his Al Gore circa 2007. Intellignet, knowlegeable and charming.

Charming.  Great quality.  We're voting for Prom King?

Obama came across as tepid and centrist.

Hillary came across as a sharp, progressive Wonkette.

You'd think Barack would have noticed how badly she outclasses him, and just withdrawn from the race.  He noticed it, but thinks he can get away with it anyhow.