Second CNN Debate Thread

by Todd Beeton, Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:05:41 PM EST

Here's another thread for the debate.

By the way, Jonathan is Twittering the debate and don't forget to join the MyDD Blog Talk Radio post-debate show.

Update [2008-2-21 21:15:54 by Todd Beeton]:Clinton: their difference on healthcare is not just philosophical, it's substantive. She raised a good point that John Edwards made about not mandating healthcare: it's like making Social Security optional. Obama's response: Clinton will "go after your wages." Clinton channeling Edwards again: "this is personal for me." She's talking about the fact that Obama has a mandate for children, so he's not all opposed to mandates. His response is solid, but he's definitely more on the defensive. Campbell Brown is trying to regain control.

Update [2008-2-21 21:25:36 by Todd Beeton]:Clinton on what she means that she is the one who is ready to be commander in chief: "We have real problems that pose real questions about presidential leadership...When you think about everything that is going to happen, I believe that I am prepared to be ready on day one to be commander in chief..."

Update [2008-2-21 21:25:36 by Todd Beeton]:Obama responds: "I wouldn't be running if I didn't think I was prepared to be the commander in chief." Huh? Hmm, he seems to be proving Hillary Clinton's point here. He's now speaking about his opposition to the Iraq war and framing it as judgment, which is something that is crucial in a commander in chief. "Who's going to show the judgment to lead." He's also talking about part of what makes Bush such a bad commander in chief is his bad judgment. His response as a whole isn't great, but it ended strong.

Update [2008-2-21 21:25:36 by Todd Beeton]:Obama: "The surge is a tactical success imposed upon a strategic blunder." On McCain: "Senator McCain has said he doesn't know very much about the economy that well and it's clear from his embrace of George Bush's policies that he doesn't." Nice.

Update [2008-2-21 21:39:6 by Todd Beeton]:Neither candidate is biting on the superdelegate question. Obama is moving onto something more important: "People want a government that is listening to them again...They want their government back." What an impression to leave with people. Very strong answer.

Update [2008-2-21 21:44:25 by Todd Beeton]:Whoah, well, Hillary Clinton just hit that closing response out of the park.




Tags: 2008 presidential election, cnn debate, barack obama, hillary clinton (all tags)

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Permalink :: 184 Comments :: Post a Comment


hillary made a GREAT comeback (2.00 / 1)

I think she almost deep sixed the debate when she got into the plagiarism issue, but she turned it around real quickly.

she's a great debater.


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:07:41 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Finally, Obama answered her point about universal care in the 90s with the common sense rebuttal; she failed. He didn't hit what I think is the other salient point: defeated, she forgot the words "universal health care" until John Edwards made them respectable again.


by EMTP democrat on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:13:08 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

there she is! should have started with health care!


by hctb on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:14:55 PM EST

OK (none / 0)

I had shelved it -

But I'm going to finish my omnibus post on Medicaid and why it CANNOT ensure many Americans do not get financially screwed.

I know folks hate to hear it - but there's a lot of truth to Harry and Louise.


by zonk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:15:11 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

I really hate that "gaming the system" stuff.


by hctb on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:15:38 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama on the plagarism accusation: people are tired of this petty shit, Hillary. Let's talk issues.

I will admit, though, "Change you can Xerox" is a sharp one-liner. That's pretty funny.


by EMTP democrat on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:15:42 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

I'm not tired of it.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (1.00 / 1)

I'm not tired of it either. He lied...it was more than just a couple of words.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:18:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

psssh...ridiculous.


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Sane people are tired of it. Barack is too nice to exclude you specifically.


by EMTP democrat on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:20:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

ah...THERE'S the snappy retort I wish I could've come up with. Nicely done.


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:21:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

It's a great one liner... but you know who cares about it?

People that have already made up their minds for Clinton and Obama supporters who either didn't like it, or, thought it was quite clever (like me).

I cannot see how a single undecided or leaning voter is moved by it.


by zonk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

New Signature for me? (none / 0)

"Change you can Xerox."


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:16:07 PM EST

Hillary would prefer you forget that (none / 0)

You can tell she regretted saying it almost as soon as it was out, and the crowd was not happy at all.

If you want a .sig, pull it out of her close, which was her best moment.


by mattw on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Campbell is a horrible moderator. she is letting him ramble on and on...taking 10 minutes just to say "me too" and then when there is a real difference they don't let Clinton respond or go to commercial.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:17:29 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, she is. She's not giving them leeway to speak (especially Hillary).


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:18:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

okay, Taliban is nuclear.


by hctb on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Do you get what he's saying? He rambles so much it's confusing to me.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (1.50 / 2)

No I don't. It's like you have to close yourself off to reality to find his ramblings anything close to coherent.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:21:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Well, I always have to ask someone else to see if they get the same thing I do.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Figures.  That's what I was trying to tell you yesterday.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Why would I take your advice?


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:31:01 PM EST
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Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Absolutely no reason imaginable.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:35:03 PM EST
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Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

I noticed, too. Very annoying.


by praxis1 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Yes, he goes on and on and tries to take her positions as his.


by splashy on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:19:46 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

HRC wins on Health Care ..


by loser on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:20:23 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama is dominating this debate. Hillary is toast. It wouldn't shock me if Obama wins in Texas and Ohio.


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:20:39 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

So you are buying all his fluff. Great!


by loser on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Are we watching the same debate?


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Obamafiles see only him and hear only him.

he is not winning this debate. He seems flat.

I just wish they would let her respond. This is very one sided. I wish Wolf was there, Campbell clearly has a bias.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

YOU MUST BE ONE OF THOSE DILLUSIONAL OBAMA SUPPORTERS HE WAS TALKING ABOU.


by DALEVIC on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 11:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

it takes him longer to say, "me too", than anyone I have ever known.

Notice he would rather talk about Iraq than Serbia. That does not inspire confidence for me. does he even know what happened today?


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:21:00 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

You want less discussion about Iraq?


by rfahey22 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:22:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

No apparently Obama only wants to talk about Iraq to avoid answering the question about Serbia.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:29:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

maybe if devall says it...


by hctb on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

hahahahah


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're right (none / 0)

We've lost thousands of soldiers in Serbia...WHAT? We spend tens of billions of dollars a month in Serbia??


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right (2.00 / 1)

We actually played a very significant role in bringing peace in the region and ending genocide there under the Clinton administration, if you want to know any substantial issues about US foreign policy.


by praxis1 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right (none / 0)

No, we did not. Wasn't the war that General Clark won with air raids?


by Actright on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:31:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right (none / 0)

Air raids on civilian infrastructure in Serbia, to be precise- actions illegal under international humanitarian law.


by seand on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:33:52 PM EST
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Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Well from what he's said about foreign policy in this debate give me the impression that he hasn't got a clue in that area past "I was against the war from the start." It's embarrassing.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Did he just smoke her on the Commander in Chief issue?!?!

Lord have mercy...


by Ultrajamzilla on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:21:37 PM EST

Disturbing (none / 0)

I feel disturbed that Obama got such a response for saying

"I wouldn't be running if I didn't feel I was ready"

Um.. duh. I would hope so. Crowd erupted though. Nothing sticks to this guy. Goes to show what charisma can do for a guy.


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:23:33 PM EST

Re: Disturbing (none / 0)

Obama coulda said "Privately I told her what I've said publicly, I will bring them home" and the crowd would've went apeshit over it.

Hillary says it. No response.

Hillary is a defeated candidate.


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:25:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disturbing (none / 0)

I think he's just pointing out what a dumb question that is to begin with. What's he going to say, no? "Gosh, I have to be President AND commander-in-chief? Don't they have guys to run that army stuff for me?"


by Weirdsmobile on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:27:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

She actually missed the second half of the question on Petraeus with her response.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:24:27 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (1.00 / 1)

Jesus, Todd, could you be more biased in your assessments?

Shrillary has totally failed tonight.

Her barbs have been put down. She's done.


by hrcisthemachine on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:24:31 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

He scares me to death.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:24:35 PM EST

Why? (none / 0)

Seriously, why does he scare you to death?


by lestatdelc on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:27:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why? (none / 0)

He could crush you to death WITH HIS EYES


by Weirdsmobile on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:29:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He scares me to death also (2.00 / 1)

Obama scares me because his reasoning on the most important, life and death issues is so shallow and weak, and he has so little experience and qualifications for the office of the presidency I am terrified his mistakes could really turn into a huge disaster for the US. I pray people come to their senses and vote for Hillary Clinton, who has the skills, judgement, and mastery of the issues to keep us safe and going in the right direction.

As a dedicated progressive I am deeply concerned that his "change" intentions amount to unacceptable concessions on the most basic principles I have dedicated my life to fighting for. I didn't fight for years for human rights, equality, universal health care, etc, just to have a pandering, weakling Democrat give them away, especially since we have our best chance to have real change by controlling both houses of Congress and the executive branch.

I just cannot believe Democrats will throw away this history making opportunity by voting for this weak, unqualified person who already indicates he will cave on health care, public education, Social Security, economic reforms, and other bedrock progressive principles. We need a fighter now, not a Bush-lite quasi Republican to give away all the rest of our gains that the real Republicans couldn't reverse during their reign.

We need Clinton, she has the strength and maturity to get the job done.


by 07rescue on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He scares me to death also (none / 0)

jeez, as if Hillary's war stance didn't already put us in a huge disaster. her maturity and experience hasn't helped us stay away from a disaster. What makes you think Obama will? In fact, what exactly will obama do that scares you so much?

this talk about Obama being weak is quite insidious considering he's crushing a candidate that only had to put a ground game in all states to walk away with the nominee. all the experience in the world couldn't keep Hillary from running an awful campaign. Especially when Penn's only job was showing the country that Hillary was indeed a warm and charismatic woman. He failed her.

regarding Obama caving on anything, get real. he's held up better then hillary on a host of issues. it's quite telling that the current front runner for president is a candidate who's "moderated" since coming to the U.S. senate and still held the title as most "liberal" senator.

regarding healthcare, once back in the senate Hillary can try to pass her healthcare vision. I urge her to do so.

regarding the debate, i thought it was a draw. I must applaud Hillary for taking the high-road in this event.


!
by alex100 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:53:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Hat's off to the 1st Cavalry and a 'tactical' victory versus a 'strategic' blunder.  Good answer.  McCain was a line officer, Obama will be POTUS.  Different frames of reference and areas of responsibility.  Well done.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:26:27 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 0)

great sentence, just awesome.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama is killing this Iraq debate.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:26:47 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

agreed...he's nailing it.

And a great time to go to commercial!


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:27:57 PM EST
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Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

"Iran is the greatest beneficiary of our presence in Iraq"

-Hes bustin a lil Ron Paul and I love it!


by Ultrajamzilla on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:27:16 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

shut up hippie.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Iraq is just an awful issue for Hillary and good for Obama, much like health care is a great one for Hillary and a weak one for Obama.

And he's right in tying Iraq into infrastructure, health care, etc...


by ChrisR on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:27:34 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Why are they letting him go on and on so long, and getting the last word so much? Astonishing.


by splashy on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:00 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

I think all the hypes about "this debate is her only chance to come back" was to give us this crappy debate. CNN is doing its best to make sure that she would have the worst outcome for Hillary. I feel stupid to believe for a second that she might have a fair chance here.


by praxis1 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Oh c'mon...couldn't it at least be a little bit her fault? If she's not doing what she needs to do tonight to turn the tide, that's at least as much her fault as anyone else's.


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

She can't do anything if they won't allow her to respond. Twice now they have gone to commercial before she coudl rebut. Not to mention Campbell has cut her off numerous times because of time but lets Obama go on and on and on.

CNN should be ashamed. I will also bet money this does not go over well with the average viewer.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)


The only reason this looks so bad to you is that your candidate is underperforming, and you refuse to consider the possibility that it's her own damn fault.
by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:40:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

if underperforming is not droning on about bringing america together, I am in. I find his an insufferable blowhard.  


by hctb on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:49:48 PM EST
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Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

I agree BO is an "insufferable blowhard", and I can hardly stand listening to his bloviating about nothing, knowing as I do his weak kneed stances on so many progressive issues. His vague BS turns my stomach, giving away the family farm on the issues so many of us have fought for, and waited through so much despair during the years and years of Republican dominance for the chance to win on again. A Republican-lite candidate like BO is not what I will ever vote for, not with his entry level experience and grossly inadequate qualifications to be commander in chief. Talk about feeling betrayed by the Democratic Party, if it nominates this fake we will live to see buyer's remorse on a grand scale.

It won't be Hillary Clinton or superdelegates who kill "hope", it will be BO himself, after he compromises away what remains of our progressive principles.

No, I'm not "inspired" by BO at all, I am dumbfounded by this weakling retreat by Democrats on the real issues. "Unity" and giveaways to the Right, who have proven their moral bankruptcy over and over is a betrayal of everything I believe in.

"Change" equals concession in BO's book. What's so "new and improved" about giving up?

We should show some courage and fight for Hillary Clinton, who will fight for us, with courage, with strength of character, and an indomitable spirit.


by 07rescue on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:35:19 AM EST
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Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama is just controlling it.. the entire debate. Wow. She's done.


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:05 PM EST

The Obama Shill (none / 0)

Obama always needs a shill [this time it's the Repub Campbell Brown] to help him.  Sometimes it Tweety or Timmeh, at other times its Wolffie.  Today it's Brownie!!!


by illuminati on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

CAmpbell is controlling it. Not Obama...they are letting him ramble, cutting her off and not allowing her the chance for rebuttal.

I bet people watching will notice that.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Back to Europe (2.00 / 1)

I'd like to ask Obama why he never called a meeting of the Senate Committee on European Affairs that he chairs. How prepared is he to deal with Kosovo and Serbia on DAY 1?????


by illuminati on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:15 PM EST

Re: Back to Europe (none / 0)

Because he's running for President. Clinton has hardly been actively chairing committees in the Senate, either.


by Korha on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to Europe (2.00 / 1)

She was in the West Wing when the Kosovo mess took place.

Besides, even throughout this campaign season, she has been back to the Senate to vote on key bills over 50% of the time, According to Senate records, Obama was back less that 35% of the time, and McCain less than 28%.  Who is more engaged and works harder??


by illuminati on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:32:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to Europe (none / 0)

Although she didn't have a security clearance and couldn't attend Security Council meetings.

Don't get me wrong--I think she is more than prepared to be Commander in Chief. But there's better evidence for that than "was in the White House then"...


by tomchaps on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:50:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

that ending line of his was epic, and the crowds loved it


by Lazeriath on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:40 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Until she - hopefully - that he has no actual business wrapping as the anti-war leader. He was not present for the vote and simply gave a speech.

Further he admitted (prior to the election, of course) that he probably would have voted for the authorization.

He has led on nothing to end the war since he arrived.

McCain will beat him like a drum for lying. Then he will move onto his lack of military or other real leadership experience.


by cath on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:31:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what do you guys feel about the format? (none / 0)

I like that they allow the candidates to speak in length, but I wish the reporters had the balls to really cut them off when they start to wander.


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:54 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Obama still needs to brush up on his debate skills. He was doing better earlier but he's now been reduced to making fairly disconnected bullet points.


by Korha on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:54 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

When is Hillary going to start trying? Does she have an ace up her sleeve?


by animated on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:28:59 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Animated, Hillary can't win. She can't touch this guy. No one can. When Bill Clinton said his position on Iraq was a "fairy tale" people took it as a racist comment. Nothing sticks on him. Nothing. He's charismatic, crowds love him, he's likeable. She isn't. This guy is the perfect candidate to run in the General, he can't lose.


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:31:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Sure, he is the perfect candidate, who might win, and is grossly unqualified to hold the office of the presidency. Good going. Maybe we should nominate the next Britney Spears, or whoever else can raise ratings, and turn people's heads. Smart people.

We profoundly disagree on what constitutes a good candidate. What an awful shame that shallow popularity could run away with this, what a truly awful shame for America.


by 07rescue on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:41:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Wow does he ramble... that one answer went from the surge to Latin America to Iran to the economy to everything else. It wouldn't be that bad if he hadn't already done it another half dozen times already...


by OrangeFur on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:29:14 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

I think the crowd dynamic is throwing both of them off a little bit.  I wonder if it would bamboozle McCain...


by rfahey22 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

he's winning, and all he needed to do was survive.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:29:44 PM EST

Nice plagerized talking point from Taylor Marsh (none / 0)

at 02.21.2008 - 9:20 pm over there.


by lestatdelc on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:30:50 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama's answers are so long that it's got to be a strategy and not simply a habit. If it's strategy it's smart, and I'm surprised that Hillary and the moderators are just letting him filibuster. He's gotta be just dominating the "time of possession".


by blueflorida on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:31:10 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (1.00 / 1)

He's so charismatic, he has to drone on a little just to cut down the sheer power of his charm or else he would blow out the TV cameras.


by Weirdsmobile on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Droning on is trying to run out the clock before your opponent can score more points against you. He bores me to death.


by 07rescue on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:42:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Todd, Todd, Todd (none / 0)

Earlier Todd was much more objective in his approach.  Now he's back to being a shill for Hill.

Sad.  I thought we had turned a corner.


by MJPacino on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:32:52 PM EST

Obama can take a whiz on Hillary (2.00 / 1)

And the crowd would go bananas


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:32:54 PM EST

Re: Obama can take a whiz on Hillary (none / 0)

I have to give you credit for humor.


by OrangeFur on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama can take a whiz on Hillary (none / 0)

THAT wss funny!


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 11:15:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

wow, hillary has lost this debate in a horrible way.    Hope she does better in the next one.


by soros on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:33:21 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

soros, She's getting killed. Dominated. Destroyed. Annihilated.


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:34:24 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

I wouldn't go that far.

I think she's just not doing what she needs to do.

She's an excellent debater, but Obama has closed what was once a substantial gap.

I still think her fundamental error was using her "quip"/line of attack on the Deval Patrick issue.  It's just not something that resonates outside of the blogosphere.

Her healthcare answers were good - I happen to agree with Obama on the issue, however - but were I her, THAT's where I would have tried to work in a memorable quip.


by zonk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:38:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what a bunch of frickin amateurs (none / 0)

How does a news organization as big as CNN get something that wrong?


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:34:39 PM EST

fiscal responsibility (none / 0)

by trying to get millions for a Woodstock Museum?


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:35:09 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)


I imagine she's thanking her lucky stars about now that Obama "refused" more debates.
by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:35:11 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

nice tie back to the clinton administration there.


by Lazeriath on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:35:16 PM EST

Take a knee, Barack (none / 0)

A very good debate - at worst a tie (until we factor in who needed to do what).

Take a knee, run out the clock.

One down, one to go.


by zonk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:35:54 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

blueflorida hit the nail on the head...

the filibuster is spectacular.


by Ultrajamzilla on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:36:01 PM EST

lost update (none / 0)

the new guy, the ghostbuster, is blackmailing (excuse me, extorting) ben for 3.2 million dollars.  just thought everyone would want a little bit of nonpolitical levity amidst a night of perhaps too much politics (well not really, but you know)


"Katie, i'd like to use one of my lifelines, i'd like to phone a friend." "governor Palin"
by Doug Tuttle on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:36:41 PM EST

Re: lost update (none / 0)

though i can't beat "taking a whiz on hillary" at least not tonight, until bush does some coke off cheneys ass.


"Katie, i'd like to use one of my lifelines, i'd like to phone a friend." "governor Palin"
by Doug Tuttle on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:38:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

wow...this moderator guy is great.


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:36:57 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Hillary's response to the super delegate question was lame. Come on!


by mecarr on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:36:57 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

She wants to go back to 2000 and start over. I actually kind of like that idea. A two-term "do over." Let's just forget the Bush Administration ever existed.


by Weirdsmobile on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:37:03 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Works for me.

Hillary can have 2000 through 2008 -- Obama gets 2008 through 2016.


by zonk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

ooooooh, she's gonna get slammed


by Lazeriath on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:37:24 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

zonk, at worst a tie? Hillary needed to win. She needed to make a contrast. She hasn't done that adequately. Obama dominated this debate. Hillary speaks for 2 minutes, Obama speaks for seven. He's getting more face time, he looks more presidential, he looks better prepared. He looks like a winner.


by falcon4e on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:37:42 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

She's a good debater.

I hear what you're saying - I realize what she needed to do, and I agree she didn't do it - but she's a very good debater.

Lemme put it this way... strictly on 'points'?  Yeah - I think it's a tie.

Factor in the "needs to do" and Clinton's superior debating skills and call it a "point spread"?

OK - yeah, I think she fell far short.

She's giving an excellent answer now, though -- the type of thing she should have been saying since New Hampshire.


by zonk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks to Campbell Brown! (none / 0)

And I know that it is called a fair game.


by praxis1 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

I think he's incapable of giving an answer that's less than 3 minutes long.

How does he turn a question about superdelegates into something about health care for single mothers?


by OrangeFur on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:38:34 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

The same way Hillary turned the "commander-in-chief" question into a health care question. I guess they both really want to talk about health care!


by Weirdsmobile on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

I think she did that because Obama had just made a point on health care before the break.


by OrangeFur on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:40:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Yeah. I actually liked how she just kind of disregarded the question. The moderators are always the worst thing about these debates.


by Weirdsmobile on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

wow, hillary by implication, is bringing up her old scandals? geeze.


by mecarr on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:40:52 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

is she going negative on...herself?


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Looks to me like an acknowledgment of the truth of what has happened in her life, and by implication that she survived it and is still going strong in spite of all the crap that has been thrown at her. She's a survivor, that will keep in the game because she believes in what she is doing.


by splashy on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

he is terrible. Why are all his answers so damn long? Good lord...


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:41:04 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

You wanted substance, right?


by rfahey22 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Hillary's last statement here is kind of sad, it's kind of like she's giving up.


by mecarr on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

is she re-crying? (none / 0)


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:41:31 PM EST

Re: is she re-crying? (1.00 / 1)

you gotta do what you gotta do


by Sieglinde on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oscar (none / 0)

She is amazing. She actually used some of the same words!


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oscar (none / 0)

About as good as Obama's FAKE speech performances.


by Sieglinde on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

How does she take a pass on what honestly is the only viable way for her to win the nomination?


by tysonpublic on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:50 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

This is conciliatory in that ... this is my last primary kind of way.


by rfahey22 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:28 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

no doubt, hillary's last answer, is fucking beautiful. masterful. amazing.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:30 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Whatever happens we're going to be fine?  Sounds almost like a concession speech.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:33 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

No it sounds like Edwards. Speaking of plagirism, it seems like half of this debate are lines that Edwards first used.  


by alexmhogan on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Clinton's "We're going to be fine" was a gift to everyone involved in this contest, and it's personal generosity and deep maturity was what people stood up for.

The disgusting nastiness of the BO supporters who have snidely trashed her with right wing slander withers in comparison to the graceful reminder of who Hillary Clinton really is.

You guys have blown off the best candidate ever offered to you for your infatuation with someone who will betray what Democrats have stood for for many years. The bubble will burst and your devotion will turn to fickle scorn when he betrays you. Democrats fail at fulfilling history, and destiny, once again. No guts, no insight, no fortitude when it counts. Cannot even recognize true quality when it is staring you in the face. Unbelievable. Throwing away the best for a sham.


by 07rescue on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:56:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

If she's so great how come she didn't run in '04, eh?


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:11:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

And Hillary's best answer is one where she more or less conceded the race.

"I am so honored to be here with Senator Obama.  And we're going to be fine no matter what happens."


by ChrisR on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:41 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

I have never seen such rude, unbalanced discussion that clearly doesn't get the point and doesn't care to.

I expected more from My DD.


by americanincanada on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:41 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 0)

just because we disagree with you doesn't make us rude or ignorant.


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Clinton is giving a really, really good answer on the crisis question. Obama's was frankly very bad.


by Korha on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:41 PM EST

IF she had (none / 0)

been giving that last answer for the last two months - I think this race is over and Clinton is our nominee.


by zonk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:55 PM EST

beautiful oratory (none / 0)

THANK YOU!
i support obama, but good god that was singularly the best answer to a single question i have ever heard in politics.
BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Is it me, or did she just give everyone cover to vote for Obama? Sounded to me like she said that she'd be okay with that.


by roseaupensant on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:44:03 PM EST

Re: Second CNN Debate Thread (none / 0)

Hillary's last answer was great because it was concilatory, it was sad to see her almost acknowledge that it is over for her.


by mecarr on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:44:45 PM EST

OK, so final thoughts? (none / 0)

Nothing really happened, which is bad news for HRC.


by highgrade on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:45:29 PM EST