Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

My name is Andre Walker, I'm 24 years old, and I got my start in politics working as a Fulton County, Georgia elections official in 2000 when I was 16.  Over the past eight years, I've seen campaigns and candidates come and go.  I've volunteered for many of them myself and as such, I've come to expect the enthusiastic campaign volunteer/supporter.  However, with the 2008 presidential election, I've seen some things that are totally unexpected and completely disturbing.

What I'm talking about, of course, is the manner in which supporters of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama promote their candidate and tear down anyone who opposes him.

We all know that, on the internet, many Obama supporters travel around like a pack of rabid wolves waiting to pounce on anyone who even dares to question their candidate; the name calling and the tasteless comments are what many have come to expect on sites such as Daily Kos and even MyDD.  But now, it's gotten to the point where the mainstream media is starting to take notice, and quite frankly, it is freaking them out.

Over the weekend, Ben Smith of Politico.com wrote the following:

I fought to have an unmoderated, open comments section when this blog launched because I really like the free flow of information, and I think moderation and registration sometimes push away the occasional poster who has some specific piece of knowledge to add on a given thread.

But I'm also starting to get a lot of complaints, and requests for moderation, because over the last few weeks, the conversation has sometimes degenerated a bit.

Obama's online enthusiasm is a marvel, and has gotten him a lot of justifiably good press; the venom from his supporters across the blogosphere has the opposite effect. As with Dean in 2004, it freaks out people in the middle.

Anyway, for now, I'd just like to ask some commenters to treat this more like a conversation, less like the wall in a public bathroom.

Source:  Politico.com/Ben Smith blog "Commenting comment"

Now I'm not going to start calling out names, but some of the caustic rhetoric that I see from many Obama supporters both here on MyDD and over at Daily Kos is reminiscent of the "don't you dare say anything against President Bush" rhetoric spewed forth by the Republicans right after September 11th.

Keep on reading, because the worse is on the way...

Now tearing people down on the internet is one thing.  Everyone loves to be a net thug, because they can hide behind their computer screen and say things that they normally wouldn't say in person.  But that same poisonous venom that's flowing throughout the blogosphere is now starting to seep into the real world.

Robert Holeman came to Timken High School here today with a message to deliver to Bill Clinton. He did -- and he said the former president wasn't happy about it.

Throughout the event, as Clinton made his case for his wife, Holeman's dissenting voice could be heard. At times he simply shouted Obama's name. When Clinton would set up a sure applause line, Holeman could be heard heckling. As soon as Clinton finished speaking, the Canton native made a beeline to the ropeline to give Clinton a piece of his mind.

"This is the last hurrah. After March 4, Hillary Clinton will be out of the race for good, and Obama will take the commanding lead," he said. "She should back him with her delegates immediately. That's what I'm asking them to do."

Source:  2/17/2008 MSNBC/First Read article "Bill Spars With Obama Supporter"

When I read the "after March 4" line, I thought to myself, "boy, that sounds like one of the many comments you can read on the internet any day of the week."  Now I ask you; what sane American wants to be associated with a candidate that attracts individuals who will disrespect a former President of the United States.

I mean come on, how do you disrespect a former President of the United States like that?  I voted against President Bush; I campaigned against him; but I would never disrespect him because I have a little bit too much respect for the office that he holds.  

You can disagree without being disagreeable, and up to this point, Obama supporters have been doing both; disagreeing and being disagreeable.

The insults hurled at Tavis Smiley are just another example of how inappropriate, rude, and disrespectful Obama supporters have become.

Tavis Smiley, the bestselling author of the "Covenant With Black America," is in a world turned upside down. He said he's being "hammered," "barbecued," and is "catching hell" from black Americans for suggesting that Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) made a major mistake by declining to speak at the State of the Black Union event that Smiley plans to host next week in New Orleans.

"There's all this talk of hater, sellout and traitor," Smiley said to me in a telephone interview. Smiley even mentioned getting death threats, but wouldn't elaborate. He said his office has been flooded with angry e-mails. "I have family in Indianapolis. They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy," Smiley said.

Source:  2/16/2008 Washington Post/The Trail blog "Black Commenter, Criticizing Obama, Causes Firestorm"

Death threats?  Harassing the man's mother?  And some of you wonder how people can say if Obama becomes the nominee, they'll sit at home or even vote for McCain.   The biggest reason why people are saying that is because they don't want to deal with another 9 months of the Obamaniacs' feeding frenzy; let alone 4 years if he gets in the White House.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is the Obama supporters need to tone down the rhetoric.  Support your candidate, but don't belittle the supporters of other candidates.  

Show a little respect, a little class, and a little tact because right now, your behavior is freaking a whole lot of people out.



Display:


By the way, I don't think they'll listen... (2.00 / 29)

...But I just like to put things out there so people can't say they weren't warned.


by andrewalker08 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:42:17 AM EST

Re: By the way, I don't think they'll listen... (2.00 / 18)

Andre, my hat is off to you.  And you provide information -- from Politico and from Tavis Smiley (not hearsay, to the commenter below) -- that is truly shocking to me.

I thought i'd seen it all from the Obamadroids, but this is just sickening.

And, Andre, thank you for your service to the Democratic party, and for your respect for this country's institutions.  You are very mature.


by susanhu on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:13:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Good to See this Diary! (1.00 / 0)

HAHAHA is this snark?


by mcdave on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 05:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he's a thug (1.00 / 0)

Obama is a "thug"? Are you taking crazy pills?


by mcdave on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 05:15:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many GOP netizens are posing as Obama-philes (2.00 / 3)

Obama likes to take credit for all of his Republican support, he needs to take responsibility for the people who support him online too.  Many people realize that Republicans are supporting Obama in the primary because they do not like Senator Clinton, they also will be supporting John McCain in the Fall.  


by nycvoter on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 05:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"potential despot" (none / 0)

share the drugs, man.  share the drugs.


by Teaser on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:07:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way, I don't think they'll listen... (2.00 / 1)

So if I can find an example of a Hillary Clinton supporter doing something crazy, will you just sit out the election entirely?

This stuff is stupid. Talk about issues, not this side-show nonsense. Obama supporters aren't crazy. They just like Barack Obama better than Hillary Clinton for very sane and rational reasons. Trying to explain Obama away by linking him and his supporters with mental illness or sexism or internet trolling or whatever is just a sad and desperate tactic. It's really lame.

C'mon, buck up. Give me some diaries about how awesome Hillary Clinton is. The bitter tone is getting boring.


I am The Etchasketchist!
by Jumbo on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way, I don't think they'll listen... (1.00 / 1)

Once you realize that Obama is the republican troll candidate, then the prowling attack posters make more sense. Eventually, to prove that he is a uniter and not a divider, Obama will have to endorse McCain to keep his rep and fulfill his stated mission. IMO, he's well on his way to getting McCain elected as president.


by thetis on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 07:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There isn't a single link... (1.91 / 12)

...To your "direct evidence" while I posted three links to accounts of Obama supporters being rude and disrespectful.


by andrewalker08 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:46:28 AM EST

Saturday (2.00 / 0)

I posted two comments.

The first was a question in a diary about some anti-Hillary signs.

In response, I was called a dumb-ass.  No Pro Hillary people bothered to say that was uncivil.
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/2/16/1 24423/001/110#110

In another thread, made a comment about how people were getting emotional in their arguments.
This is the response from another pro-Hillary poster:
"Obamabots are factless, crude, nasty little attack monkeys - just exactly like rightwing trolls - exactly. "
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/2/16/1 9361/9756/9#9

Actually, this comment comes pretty close to outright rascism - but no pro-Hillary person was bothered.

My point is not that Obama people are more virtuous - right now I think well over 50% of the posters are downright mean and irrational.

But the notion that one side is particularly over the top is simply not true.


by fladem on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 09:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (1.00 / 2)

Nothing betrays slopping thinking and propaganda as the unknowing use of the Royal we, as in: "We all know that..."

So what is your thesis? What is your point?  That you're embarrassed by picking Hillary as your candidate?  That you think the bullies in the playground are at fault?  

Sad. Sad. Sad.


by denis diderot on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:49:46 AM EST

Just from your comments... (1.92 / 14)

...I can see that you support the caustic rhetoric that's flowing throughout the internet and now seeping into the real world.

You can call it "Sad.  Sad.  Sad.," but what is really sad is the fact that the Obama supporters just don't get it.  They just don't get that they're freaking people out by their methods of promoting their candidate.

I'm proud of my choice to support Hillary for President, and I'm not backing away from it.  What I'm embarrassed about is the way Obama's supporters disrespect and belittle everyone who doesn't support him.  

That reflects badly on Barack Obama the candidate and it reflects badly on the Democratic Party.


by andrewalker08 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:56:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just from your comments... (2.00 / 2)

"What I'm embarrassed about is the way Obama's supporters disrespect and belittle everyone who doesn't support him."

Well on this site as well as others, Supporters of Obama are "kool-aid drinkers," "cultists," "kids," "elitists," "latte-drinkers," "wine-drinkers," "people who don't need a president" (that one came from Bill Clinton himself), "live in insignificant states" (From chief strategist Mark Penn), "misogynists, "sexists," "uninformed," and the list goes on.

You seriously think this is a one way street?


by WellstoneDem on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you mean like use the bully pulpit (2.00 / 1)

to vote for telecom immunity like Hillary did this week by not showing up for a vote. It that how Hillary helps poor people by shilling for corporations?


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just from your comments... (2.00 / 1)

"You are a cultist"

I think you just kind of proved his point.  Being a douchebag isn't reserved for being a Clinton or an Obama supporter.  It is however, seemingly a prerequisite for being a thread commenter on MyDD.com.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just from your comments... (1.00 / 1)

WHY ARE YOU HERE IF YOU HATE IT SO?


Offend the Media - Vote for Hillary!
by Seymour Glass on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:38:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just from your comments... (2.00 / 2)

Cause it wasn't always like this.  And after the nomination fight is done it won't be again.

Better question:  Why are you still using that keyboard if your caps lock is broken?


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just from your comments... (none / 0)

Thank you for giving me a little giggle on such an obnoxious diary. But, then again, I'm a googly-eyed cultist on way too many Starbucks lattes, so it shouldn't be so hard to make me laugh.


by cecilybecily on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 06:43:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just from your comments... (2.00 / 1)

Come on. The allcaps are very persuasive.


by mhojo on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just from your comments... (2.00 / 1)

Your rhetoric is just as caustic, dude. Look at the title of your diary. Look at your literary devices:

"what sane American wants to be associated with a candidate that attracts individuals who will disrespect a former President of the United States."

Just come out and say it: You think Obama supporters  are mentally ill.

Should people start heckling the form President in rhetorical question form? Will that make you feel more comfortable?

Pot, meet kettle. I believe you both have something in common that maybe you need to talk about.


I am The Etchasketchist!
by Jumbo on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The closest fallacy (none / 0)

is the argumentum ad populum.  I couldn't find any "royal fallacy" on wikipedia, but it would be a good one to invent.


by corph on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 2)

I agree, but I wouldn't single out supporters of Senator Obama.  Lets take a look at the recommended list here at MyDD:

Just Words, But Whose Words?: Which claims Senator Obama is a plaigarist.

Senator Obama: Debate This: Which attacks supporters of Senator Obama at the bottom basically arguing none of them have good reason to support him.

Obama: "I Believe In Free Trade":  Which apparently argues that Senator Obama is just as much or more of fan of free trade as Senator Clinton.

Hillary on Kosovoa: Which insults the youth vote and claims Senator Obama has no clue in foreign relations.

2208: Which argues super-delegates should thwart the will of the the pledged delegates if they wish.

So 1 flat out attack on Senator Obama and 4 diaries that thought they would right about Senator Clinton but just couldn't make it through the diary without slamming Senator Obama or his supporters a few times.


by WellstoneDem on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:51:32 AM EST

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (1.75 / 4)

Have you ever protested against DailyKos, MSNBC, Huffington Post, Talking Points Memo, Open Left...etc.? If so, I can certainly agree with you. Be fair.


by praxis1 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:13:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 1)

I never recommend anti-hillary diaries anywhere and  often I write that the diarist would be better off sticking with why they support their candidate.  The only candidate diaries that I recommend are those in which someone explains a personal experience they had that is interesting or inspiring and those that show some good analysis of the election.  A few times I have recommended diaries that just explain Senator Obama's positions because I get tired of reading that he doens't have any.


by WellstoneDem on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

See, this is the difference the poster above you was talking about.  Instead of why your choice of candidate is better you resorted to hyperbolic personal attacks of character without citation.

Oh and you added a second ? just to make sure the internet masses knew you were VERY SERIOUS in your questioning.

So, you can either cut out the personal attacks your candidates opposition, accept the personal attacks on your candidate as part of the game, or embrace the hypocrisy of not believing what is good for the goose is good for the gander.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This Weekend on MyDD... (2.00 / 1)

I've read diaries comparing Obama to Hitler.  One with comments suggesting he was some sort of anti-gay messiah that might instruct his followers to round up gay people.

I've read at least three different "Obama is a Muslim" smear diaries, and countless comments implying the same.

I've read that he's anti-semetic.

I've read that he hates women.  And gays.

I've read that he's lying about his mom's death from cancer, and/or using it to get elected.

Everyone needs to stop this, cause it's coming from all sides.  These diaries that selectively call out one side or another are totally missing the point.


by Brillobreaks on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:26:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This Weekend on MyDD... (2.00 / 1)

The cancer diary was just awful and I believe almost every commentor treated it as such.  I didn't read the "anti-gay messiah" piece but it sounds ridiculous.

I would argue that it's fair to discuss what are viewed as sexist dismissals by Obama by some -- and I ask why not?  Am I supposed to just brush off my own discomforts and fold down my antennae because OBVIOUSLY the man couldn't POSSIBLY be a sexist?  How do I know this?  Why must that dialogue be shut down?
My concerns are genuine and I feel they are always being brushed off as "loser whining" and impossible stretches.  They aren't to me.  they aren't to many.  Why can't those concerns be aired and rationally discussed?

The M word thing -- when I bring it up it's within the context of genuine concerns for his strength as a candidate.  There is some meat on that bone whether Obama supporters wish to contend with it now or later.  
All of the concerns are based in facts, even if they would have to be stretched into reasons not to vote for him.  My fear (I won't speak for anyone else) is that these well known and acknowledge facts will deeply wound him in the general.  

forget the loose ties or invented ties, what he did in gradeschool or any weird twisting of his statements.  When I mention it I'm referring to things as plain as his name, his parentage, the church he currently belongs to and how the general electorate might very well respond to his background when more immersed in it by the Swiftboat crowd.  

I've listened to two solid months of Senator Clinton being assumed this horrifically flawed candidate and musings about her "unelectability".  Well, I have my own "electability" concerns.  Why is it not "undermining the party" to trash her with 20 year old right wing talking points and the assumption of the day about her latest nefarious motive -- but somehow disloyal and divisive to express genuine concerns about Obama as a general election candidate?

I don't get this.  It seems a double standard based in assumptions we don't all immediately share.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This Weekend on MyDD... (2.00 / 4)

Agree completely. I was an Edwards supporter who finally voted for Hillary in the California primary. Yes, there is name-calling on both sides. But far more comes from the Obama supporters, from what I've observed.

Yes, why co-opt rightwing talking points? Why the misogyny - and yes, it's there.

I will vote for Obama if he's the nominee, but I won't be excited or enthusiastic about my choice.

My perception of the Obama "movement" is that if you don't agree, if you don't get on the bus, you are not welcome on any level. The agreement needs to be total, no questions asked. I can't ask about the weak, johnny come lately environmental platform, i can't ask about the U. of Chicago economists, I'm just a hater for daring to do so.

This was a part of what pushed me into voting for Clinton, I will admit. It's a huge turnoff. And it's dangerous.

If you Obama supporters can't admit that there is a strong cult-like element to the support, I think you are in denial. But that's a part of "belonging."


by OtherLisa on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This Weekend on MyDD... (2.00 / 1)

Then can Hillary supporters acknowledge that questions of racism are just as legit? I know plenty of people I worked with in California who say they would not vote for Obama because he was black. They were pretty open about it. They said they were not racist, but didn't believe a black man could ever win. I dismissed them just as I would dismiss anybody arguing against Hillary because she's a woman, and a powerful one at that!

Also, to address the cult thing- When I have been to super crowded Obama rallies, it never felt like a cult. It felt like a bunch of people joining together who were truly optimistic and hopeful that we can change things, not just Obama, but all of us. When I see other Obama supporters, it's neat to share that excitement. I've been pretty cynical my whole life, but I've tried to maintain some level of hope that things can better. And Obama helps inspire that hope in others. It saddens me (bringing out my cynical side) that people think of that excited, hopeful energy as cultish. I also truly appreciate the excitement that Hillary Clinton offers. I'm happy to read all these diaries where people say they vote for Hillary for their daughters, or their mothers. I think that's terrific, I really do. I'm glad we have two candidates who inspire their supporters, while conservatives will vote begrudgingly- if at all- for McCain.

And by the way, I support Obama and truly believe he will win. When he does, you are more than welcome to  reap all the benefits of a dem presidency. I'm on the same side as you. I hate smears as much as you. I feel I've been smeared on these sites (as an Obama supporter) as much as you. Anyone who stays above trash-talk is all right by me, no matter which dem they support.


by cecilybecily on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 07:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've been saying it all along (2.00 / 2)

all along I've been saying that the two of them are lightening rods for sexism and racism and we'd all be fools not to believe that.  No way this country is healing overnight on either count.

I do feel the MSM has been blatantly sexist in allowing some of their talking heads to get away with murder and in the nature of the stories they feature -- like all the airtime devoted to "Hilary cries".  the horrible Katie Couric 60 minutes interview.  I think the MSM has been horribly sexist and irresponsible.  And I don't feel they have said or done anything racist, but then I'm not going to pick up on that as quick as a person of color.  

As far as the candidates and their campaigns I think Senator Clinton has a history of fighting for civil rights that earned her and Pres. Clinton respect, even a sense of kinship, in the black community.  Senator Obama?  I'm nervous for the "present" votes and some things he's written about his mother.  I'm not saying I know he's a sexist, I'm saying I don't know if he's not, he has yet to prove himself to me on that.

Their specific remarks?  I'm really bothered by the "claws" comment and the "when she's feeling low" but not as much.  I think the first is out there, the second is open to interpretation.  Stand alone it's nothing.  I really felt he dismissed her pointedly with the "you're likable enough" comment.
On the other side, I think the Jesse Jackson comment was stupid and dismissive -- equally as offensive as the "claws" thing.  I think the LBJ comment on the other hand was fair and taken out of context.  

As for supporters?  Frankly, I've been completely flabbergasted by the sexism expressed on the Daily  Kos.  Dumbfounded.  I was told there by commentors that sexism isn't real, is in the past and wasn't bad, that white women have "had it made", domestic violence is overblown and sexism was absolutely positively not a factor in this race.   I've been called a "Feminazi" and a "whiner about seixsm" so many times, well,  I just don't know how to take that except as runaway sexism.  Not from every Obama supporter or even every "Hillary Hater" by any means, but it is definitely there.

I have never seen it on Kos but I've seen what sure stank like racism here.  I'd like to believe I troll rate it every time I see it and i wish everyone did.  I do think it is at work in some people whether they can admit it or not.

All THAT said I think we are capable of much more sane discussions on race (agreed: racism exists, racism is wrong) than we are on gender. I think we are capable of electing a black president long before a female president and seeing black men as the equals of white men long before we see men and women as equally capable.  But then again, I'm not a person of color -- I don't witness it firsthand every day and I haven't lived the history.

I have lived the history of a white woman in this country and so no one is ever going to convince me that sexism is not a factor in this contest.  A deciding factor?  the tipping factor?  We have no way of knowing.  I just won't have it dismissed out of hand.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 08:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've been saying it all along (none / 0)

And I agree with you as a woman. Sexism is real and I have certainly felt it in my life. I also am not a person of color, but know that racism exists. It's hard to gauge which is more prevalent in this election. I don't really want to. Those asshole people aren't worth our time. I'm sorry you've experienced some really bad Obama supporters. I don't think of Obama as a sexist. I thought the "likable enough" comment was weird, for sure, but I thought he meant it as more of a jokey thing than it came off. I'm sure he's learned his lesson with that one. I have been an Obama supporter for a long while now, and I truly, truly don't believe he's sexist. I would never support him if I thought so. I'm positive some of his supporters are ignorant, just as some Clinton supporters are ignorant, and for that I am truly sorry.


by cecilybecily on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 12:38:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 1)

It's surprising to me, and a little funny, that you don't see the difference between diaries that point out differences between the candidates on issues and ones that are merely inflammatory. Just read the comments on any diary and you'll understand what this diarist is talking about.

Hillary is a much stronger candidate for Commander in Chief because of her Armed Services service and because of her foreign relations developed while she  was first lady. Obama's experience is virtually non-existent on both fronts -- and he has the unfortunate habit of saying he'll sit down with Ahmadinejad one minute and he'll bomb Pakistan the next.

Mydd is absolutely the place to talk about the reasons you think Obama will make a better president...unless that reason is that you hate Hillary, or that she's bad, evil or whatever. That's not a positive case for your candidate, nor is it positive for the democratic party. If we are divided we lose in November. Hillary may be our nominee and the less time you devote to denigrating her, the better are chances will be to win in the fall.


by seattlegonz on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:38:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, you could link to them (2.00 / 1)

I, for one, would disrespect GWB if I met him in person.  He sure as hell hasn't shown any respect for the office it holds.

And while people often make up their minds by aversion to candidates supporters (I hate the terms "traitor" and "sell-out" in politics, even when applied to Joe Lieberman), it can't be stopped.

I do not hold the NY NOW chair's idiotic comments about Ted Kennedy betraying women against the Hillary campaign. If I knew people who were making those "traitor" phone calls, I would ask them to stop.

I highly doubt those people read mydd, though.


by corph on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:52:46 AM EST

Re: Well, you could link to them (1.94 / 18)

Bill Clinton is not our enemy. Actually he is our great resource we SHOULD utilize to fight republicans in 2008. Demonizing and harrassing Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton is not good for Dems. I doubt that Obama supporters care about the party, though. They are "inspired" too much by Obama to care there is actually a party to represent the will of people.


by praxis1 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:11:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (2.00 / 1)

my point is we can't make people stop, and that it's silly to pick a candidate based on the  acts of a small percentage of supporters.


by corph on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:14:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama is the nominee (none / 0)

you should not support him - he being homophobic and misogynistic and all.  


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good advice. (1.50 / 2)


by JimR on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good advice. (1.50 / 2)

Agreed, thanks for the good advice.


by Larissa on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good advice. (2.00 / 1)

Why Not is still troll rating everyone he disagrees with.  Would someone running MyDD please explain this is not appropriate?


by Larissa on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 04:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree (2.00 / 1)

Jesse Jackson Jr. goes on tv AND THREATENS SUPER DELEGATES with primary challenges if they dont' switch to Obama. What the fuck is that?

Democracy.

If elected officials do something you don't like, you challenge them in the next election...


by Monkey In Chief on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have a hard time following you (2.00 / 1)

Look at the 1984, his spokesman's roommate made.

Are you referring to an ad or something?  And how do you know what they knew?  What's your evidence?

Would you care to quote that "blatantly, offensively, misogynistic rhertoric" you heard?

I'm getting used to these silly Clinton partisans who see misogyny everwhere, but this is the first time I've heard "homophobic", outside of that whole preacher mess a while back.


by corph on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a hard time following you (1.75 / 4)

HE F-ING ROOMED WITH A OBAMA PRESS AIDE AND HE WORKED FOR THE CAMPAIGN WEB VENDER THAT THE OBAMA TEAM HIRED

GET A FRIGGIN CLUE.


Offend the Media - Vote for Hillary!
by Seymour Glass on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shut up (2.00 / 1)

and stop capitalizing.  I asked what this 1984 thing was.  It was in response to my post, so it's not up to me to figure out what he's talking about.


by corph on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 04:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, it isn't silly to pick on such a candidate (1.85 / 7)

When you run like a demagogue, you incite rabble.  Obama has deliberately chosen a strategy of appealing to the instincts of religious fervor in political behavior.  This choice is one of the main reasons I can never support him.


by lombard on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bashing Clinton makes zero political sense (2.00 / 7)

This is the thing I don't get.  It makes ZERO sense politically for Democrats to demonize Bill Clinton.  He was all we had to counter Saint Ronald Reagan.  

Reagan's mythological legacy didn't come from reality, it came from Republicans elevating him. Instead, Democrats decided to destroy Clinton's reality-based legacy.

Bill Clinton was the only one to beat Republicans and gain the presidency in 27 years.  And left office at 68% approval.  People were nostalgic for him after Bush.

Advantage lost.


by Larissa on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:36:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bashing Clinton makes zero political sense (none / 0)

You don't get it? It makes zero sense? Really?

Bill Clinton had a choice:
Option #1 - Remain above the fray and remain a uniting influence for Democrats and a potent tool to use against the Republicans.

Option #2 - Support his wife against his wife's Democratic political opponents.

Either choice was rational for former President Clinton, and he chose option #2. In the course of supporting his wife, he pushed against Obama. The Obama campaign would have been stupid to allow Bill's advocacy for his wife to go unopposed.

Maybe we could use the martyred (sort of) Al Gore to fight the sainted Ronald Reagan.


by mhojo on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 10:22:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 2)

This reminds me of an event I heard about back in 2004 where some university - I wish I could remember which one, but it's somewhere in Pennsylvania - invited a moderate Republican to speak at some sort of event and the College Democrats organized a movement to heckle the poor person.  Absolutely disgusting.

It's not even by virtue of the office that you hold that should be at least allowed to sure your opinion, but just as a regular human being.

That being said, I am quite aware that the vast majority of Obama supporters out in the real world are probably fine, decent people.  I don't know what they can do about situations like this except speak out and say it's not appropriate, and I hope they do for their sake and if not their candidate's sake.


by ejintx on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:00:06 AM EST

Re: Karl Rove? (none / 0)

I think it was a state senator or something like that.  It wasn't a federal official.


by ejintx on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 12:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 11)

It's not "hearsay" at all. This has been going on for months at DailyKossack. Erica Jong wrote an op-ed in the New York Times talking about how she's received the most vicious and threatening emails imaginable since she wrote her column supporting Hillary Clinton--and they're from Obama supporters. Taylor Marsh regularly receives vile hate mail using every epithet imaginable--from Obama supporters.

These Obama supporters actually believe they are performing political activism for their candidate, Barack Obama, by attacking, threatening, and using the most offensive language imaginable, in email threats, or blog-swarms by Obama supporters to troll-rate and auto-ban anyone who deviates from their Barack Obama group-think.

It's fascist, it's totalitarian thuggery.

And, Andre is right. They'd better cut it out because they are driving people away from Obama with their totalitarian thuggery and their triumphalist rhetoric.

Of course, as has been said, THE FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD. I blame Markos for setting the tone at DailyKos, which has set the tone in a larger sense on the net. His entire system of "troll-ratings" and "hidden comments" is geared towards allowing the "community" to keep people compliant with group-think.

That's not very democratic in my view. It's inherently anti-free-speech. Apparently, Markos feared GOP trolls so much, he selected a system that didn't allow for differences of opinion within the progressive community either.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:04:51 AM EST

Hillary supporter gone over the edge (none / 0)

Facist?  Totalitarian?  do you even know what those words mean?


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:34:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 3)

Thanks for the diary.


by praxis1 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:05:02 AM EST

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

It makes me sick that BOTH sets of supporters degenerate into vitriolic and lame name-calling and snarky crap.

I have admonished BO supporters (of which I am one) and have TRIED to do so with HRC's folks...the funny part is that Hillary's website won't even post a comment that contains anything that seems like remote support for Obama.  They only seem to post pie-eyed, unbridled support.  That my friends is CENSORSHIP...but  that's another story.

I spend a fair amount of time on blogs, and I have found that neither camp has the edge when it comes to this sort of crap.  Where BO's set of fools tend to insult HRC and her camp for her politcal gaming and war support...it is the language they use that is terrible.

HRC's people tend to attack BO and his folks for reasons that have little to do with policy, choosing to suggest the muslim crap, his middle name, or suggest he is a cult leader.

NIETHER attack form is acceptable!  I am a fair-minded person, folks...I strive to keep my criticism above-board and reasoned.  Can we all just get along?

This is a topic that should be dropped entirely.  Pleasae Mr. or Mrs. Thread Mod...delete this topic.  


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:08:59 AM EST

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

I agree with you up until the point where you want the subject to be dropped.  I simply feel that it's important for people to see what all of this ultimately degenerates into.  It's only my opinion though.


by ejintx on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:15:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 2)

Your commentary suggests this topic SHOULD BE discussed.
Then, your last sentence says diary should be deleted.
Huh??

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 3)

Why should this topic be deleted? This is something that should be discussed. it needs to be brought out into the light.

I am a Clinton supporter but I try my best to keep my comments about the race and campaigns, not personally insulting other posters using vile language. People support who they support.


by americanincanada on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:26:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 5)

I do not think that "BOTH" supporters are equally crazy. Have ever been in Daily Kos lately? Do you really think that MyDD can be any match to Daily Kos? Have you ever read Huffington Post recently? Talking Points Memo? Open Left? I have never heard of any death threat made by a Hillary supportor against anybody. Hillary supporters and Obama supprters are NOT equally bad. Obama supporters are way worse than Hillary supporters.


by praxis1 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:18:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

Baloney.  Any single nutjob can be compared unfavorably to the whole.  I could find umpteen examples of BOTH parties making threats, or suggesting that either is the anti-christ.  The HRC nuts are just as bad as the BO zealots.

My opinion that the thread should be deleted is only representative of its RELATIVE VALUE to the contest.  For cryin' out loud, we are posting over the behavior of a few fringe folks, rather than discussing important things like:

1) Electability and the effect of the candidate on congressional majorities

  1. Ending the war
  2. Energy policy
  3. Where donations are coming from
  4. What Howard dean is going to do about the primary delgates, etc.

These are topics worth having spritied but reasonable discussion on...not the vitriol spewed by each candidate's nuttier supporters.

Let's all get REAL.


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:34:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Where donations come from" (none / 0)

What a concept.  Where do Hillary's and Obama's donations come from?  Hillary is taking corporate PAC money from the telecom industry and just happened to miss the vote on FISA (while she was in town) - is there some conection?  is this what we should be talking about or should be just keep making baseless accusations?


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:39:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 1)

Well don't worry Water Hen about driving people out.  I read both MyDD and DailyKos (pretty much the only two I read daily) and I voted for Obama.

Under Sides, Ga6th, lansim (?), oh and the one that compares everyone that doesn't support their candidate to CPAC members are close to driving me out.  And I have the patience of a god damn saint for this crap...so I am sure you guys have pretty much already driven out all but the most patient or the most ardent Obama supporters.  All you have to do is look at the comments and dairies on this site.

/sarcasm=1
I hope we split the party into two parties after that.  Wouldn't it be freakin awesome to NEVER win another presidential election.  I mean, come on, how cool would it be to think of ourselves as forever self righteous Nader supporters?
/sarcasm=0


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

BRAVO!  I could not agree with you more.  BOTH camps are EQUALLY guilty of the worst kind of discourse and this diary is a good example of it.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:32:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you Andre! (2.00 / 6)

You speak for many who recognize Obamabots as the new Bushies - spending more time smearing the character of other candidates and their supporters than posting reasons to support Obama.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:12:31 AM EST

Re: Thank you Andre! (none / 0)

I like what you did just then.  You didn't even bother smearing the other candidate, just the 9 million people that voted for him.

So you are saying the other side should resort to smearing the 9 million people that voted for your side instead?


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:15:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you Andre! (1.00 / 0)

Annefrank must be a GOP troll trying to drive a wedge between reasonable folks.  Someone suggested earlier that the Vitriolic jerks from BOTH camps might well be trolls trying to stir things up.... When I read crap comparing Obama supporters to Bush people, I think there may well be something to it.

Obama has run the more agile, more thoughtful, and more visionary campaign.  By her own words, HRC assumed that this would be done by 2/5.  Her own sense of self-entitlement has led to her near-demise...not the postings of Trolls or overly zealous nincompoops!

Sheesh!


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:33:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you Andre! (none / 0)

R U another Troll?  I will not get into a "less filling...tastes great" debate.

Sheesh!


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 03:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for the diary. You can add the Daily Howler, Digby and others to the list of people/bloggers who have been getting caustic e-mail. I do believe Digby even shut her comments down for a bit as well. Taylor had moderated hers, occasionally you will even see comment sections closed at Talkleft for the same reason.

Of course the Obama supporters don't see it. They think that insulting supporters of other candidates personally is the same as talking about policy or talking about why we don't think a candidate has the right experience or character to be president. Trust me accusing a candidate of stealing or using the same speech as someone else, WITH PROOF, is not the same as calling their supporters whores or worse.


by americanincanada on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:15:10 AM EST

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 3)

When Obamabots began doing the faked outrage thingy and screaming RACISM! over the LBJ/MLK, Jr. flap - and Edwards sided with HISTORY and Hillary - Kos called Edwards an ass.

Some Kossacks even created sig lines of Kos' statement.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:25:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

Well, then what do you call screaming SEXISM when Obama says the word "periodically".  It's called Cognitive Dissonance and you should read it in a dictionary.


by GobBluth on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:45:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

Oh - I think Oblahma knew exactly what he was doing when he referenced "claws."


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I moved from uncommitted... (2.00 / 5)

to committed to Hillary Clinton after being the direct recipient of "you're a stupid, lazy, f*cking idiot" - several times - on DKos because I dared to ask a simple, legitimate questions about Obama in my quest to find a candidate.

That turned me away from Obama and to take serious looks at both Edwards and Clinton.  I was moving toward Edwards when he withdrew and now am squarely in Hillary Clintons camp.

I also have a lot of animosity toward the "Obama camp" - and that does, indeed, include the candidate.


by Shazone on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:20:40 AM EST

You win the hyperbole award. (2.00 / 1)

You've been getting death threats?  Strong-armed into voting for Obama?  I would call the police.

"Some of these so-called progressives..." nice weasel words, and way to guilt the Obama campaign by association.

So let me respond in kind by impugning your motives: You're fabricating this stuff because Hillary Clinton is losing.


by corph on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:21:32 AM EST

Good grief (2.00 / 2)

You issue a "plea" for civil dialogue and you start it out by calling supporters of the other candidate by an insulting nickname ("Obamanics")? That's a great way to de-escalate the discussion, isn't it?

Some supporters of both sides have engaged in outrageous attacks in the highly charged election. You can cite your examples of Obama supporter excesses, and for each one of them I can find similar examples of Clinton supporters attacking -- repeating the absurd idea that Obama supporters are cultists, the vicious statements from the NY NOW chapter, the number of times I've received the "Muslim" emails from Clinton supporters, the diaries claiming that Obama supporters are all immature political naifs, the comment posted here yesterday claiming that Obama was a closet case ... the list goes on and on. I log on here every day to see a plethora of diaries attacking Obama -- rarely are they rational or civil in tone.

In your view, the Obama supporters are worse - yet from where I sit, I see more outrageous examples from the Clinton supporters -- maybe our perspective is shaped by our candidate choice.

Personally, I never attack Clinton or her supporters -- even when I'm engaged in intense arguments with them. I routinely troll-rate or hide out of bounds attacks on either candidate or their supporters when I see them. I wish the dialogue (especially on the internet) was more civil -- but we've seen again and again that some people seem to think that the anonymity of the internet allows them to hide behind a screen name and issue ugly attacks.

I look forward to the end of the nomination battle and hope that the ugliness of both candidates' supporters won't make unity impossible in November.

And we've got to re-examine the way this dialogue plays out on the blogs - I find myself less and less drawn to these discussion at either DKos of MyDD because of the stupidity and irrationality of so much of the discussion. Maybe we need to re-examine the model that seems to encourage virtual screaming and vitriol instead of real discussion.


by lifelongdem on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:22:05 AM EST

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 0)

"you're a stupid, lazy, f*cking idiot"   that's funny...that is what happens on mydd to Obama supporters.


by sndeak on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:23:22 AM EST

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 1)

I have never seen a Hillary Clinton supporter use those words to insult and Obama supporter. EVER. And I doubt you have either.

Saying that a campaign resembles a cult is not the same thing. It is simply a statement about the state of the campaign.


by americanincanada on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

Those exact words?  Under sides just called them beasts and sub-human.  Is that close enough?


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:21:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

In any political contest, there's bound to be 'nasty' things said about opposing candidates.  Frankly, as an Obama supporter, I think one could easily do a hatchet job on the Clinton Presidency but thus far, direct criticism of the 1993-2001 period has been quite tepid.  HRC supporters have been just as 'vitriolic' as BHO supporters and I have no problem with that.


President Barack Hussein Obama - sounds as good as President John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
by IrishObserver on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:28:09 AM EST

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (2.00 / 1)

The ironic thing is that this site has become an outlet for the Clinton smear machine to sprew character assassination hit piece after hit piece against Clinton.  Then when people call you out on it (and YOU are one of the worst offenders, Andre), you get all high and mighty about itand cry foul.  Quit being such a hypocrite.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:30:21 AM EST

I just went back and glanced through... (2.00 / 2)

...All of my diaries, and whenever I've "attacked" Obama, I've provided links and sources to back up my claims.

I don't just write my opinion, I back my opinion up with facts that you can go and read for yourself.  And I've never impugned Sen. Obama's character unless you consider using the man's full and legal name a "character assasination."


by andrewalker08 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:45:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

See What I mean.... For the Love of Pete.... (none / 0)

I posted this above when someone suggested that it was a certainty that HRC's supporters had  the high road...it bears reposting down here...

*****

Baloney.  Any single nutjob can be compared unfavorably to the whole.  I could find umpteen examples of BOTH parties making threats, or suggesting that either is the anti-christ.  The HRC nuts are just as bad as the BO zealots.

My opinion that the thread should be deleted is only representative of its RELATIVE VALUE to the contest.  For cryin' out loud, we are posting over the behavior of a few fringe folks, rather than discussing important things like:

1) Electability and the effect of the candidate on congressional majorities

Ending the war

Energy policy

Where donations are coming from

What Howard dean is going to do about the primary delgates, etc.

These are topics worth having spritied but reasonable discussion on...not the vitriol spewed by each candidate's nuttier supporters.

Let's all get REAL.


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:36:29 AM EST

Electability (none / 0)

Note the following from:  http://www.presidentelectionpolls.com/

Number of electoral votes based on the latest polls for each state:
*    Hillary Clinton - 203
*    John McCain - 317

National Poll Averages by Month:

February
Hillary Clinton: 46.0    John McCain: 47.8

Number of electoral votes based on the latest polls for each state:
*    Barack Obama - 261
*    John McCain - 266

National Poll Averages by Month

February
Barack Obama: 48.5    John McCain: 45.3

Right now, HRC is not only behind in terms of % overall....she is getting SMOKED by mcCain in terms of electoral college projections!!!!

We MUST Coalesce around the stronger candidate...that candidate (regardless of GENDER or RACE) is Obama, who has only to make up 6 points in the electoral college as opposed to a whopping 70!!

Let's leave the finger-pointing and bruised egos behind and move FORWARD folks!!!!


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:46:34 AM EST

Re: Electability (2.00 / 1)

Electoral college projections are absolutely ludicrious at this point in the game. the democrats and republicans are not even campaigning against eachother yet and no ne has savaged Obama yet. Get ready...they will.


by americanincanada on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:50:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electability (none / 0)

Well sure there is time, and as such the data here is a "snapshot"...but the trend here is UNDENIABLE.  Hillary's case will be much harder to make.  Also, I submit that she will lack the coat tails we need to make the gains in congress!!

Obama will have a number of advantages in the GE that HRC will not...one of them will obviosuly be a sense of momnetum and inherent support.  


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:05:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electability (2.00 / 1)

Writing UNDENIABLE in caps does not make it any more accurate or true.

We are a nation at war. Hillary is the only one who can win in November. She has the gravitas and experience to be Commander in Chief, and to get us out of Iraq. National security will be, along with the economy a big part of the general election. National security always is important when you are a nation at war.

Hillary also has gravitas with regard to restoring a decimated economy, getting health care benefits for veterans, first responders, children, and her education and energy plans are lauded by teachers and environmentalists.

Hillary is the democrat who will win in November.


by seattlegonz on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:59:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electability..One other thought (none / 0)

I'll agree that Coat tails do not exist...but only when the candiates themesleves are damaged goods.

Bush had not coat tails in '04 because of iraq and the polarized electorate.  In '06, his lack of Coat tails and strength parleyed a slight dmeocratic majority.

In oreder to increase those marins, we NEED a candidate who is NOT damaged goods, and who is (for good, ill, or indifferent) a polarizing figure.  

Yes, the GOP machine will attack Obama, but he is better placed to waive off these attacks due ot the existing and NEW voters he brings to the electorate.  Also, we KNOW that HRC is damaged...why would we willingly start out disadvataging ourselves by fielding a candidate we KNOW will not be able to exapnd out majorities?

Again...brush aside pride, and let's gather around the strongest candidate...the one who will undoubtedly accumulate more primary voters and inspire a new dmeocratic majority.  

It would be politcal suicide to think that HRC can deliver anything more than a "just barely" win for herself... no ability to bring along gains in either house.

THAT is the big issue here.


by a gunslinger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is exactly why she is such a risk (none / 0)

Her negatives are so high.  


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electability (2.00 / 1)

Let's revisit these numbers after the GOP begins to attack Obama and see if they still hold true.


by Scope441 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 04:01:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out! (none / 0)

Good Post, but they are in cocoon mode - they do not care about outside and heading to be crashed sooner or later either in nomination or in general election. They are so idiotic for very simple reason: it is a Cult and Religion. When I posted something against their religion they simply disable my ability to post comments and diaries on dailykos.com . I called them since obamakos and members of the Cult - Obamaniaks and Obamacrats.
Since they incline eliminate any disagreeable posters, I perceive them as Nazis on their blog,
but they seemed do not care. It also reminded me white supremacists, but now it is obama supremacists.

For all practical purposes Dailykos is dead for open community and it is part of Obama Campaign and Obama Cult. Don't waste you time trying to change their mind.


by WeNeed3rdParty on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:54:29 AM EST

You Were Banned... (none / 0)

For spamming and repeatedly posting false "Obama is a Muslim" smears.  People who spam anything get banned eventually.  And people who have posted various Clinton era lies (Whitewater, Vince Foster stuff, etc) get banned too.


by Brillobreaks on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is plain lie! (none / 0)

Your blunt lie just proving my point how idiotic and stupid you are.
You even did not check my diaries and comments before saying your shit:

I never posted anything "Obama is a Muslim" thing.
Just check this:
http://www.dailykos.com/user/WeNeed3rdPa rty
http://www.dailykos.com/user/WeNeed3rdPa rty/comments

I bet you incapable to acknowledge that you wrong and lier.
Well: most members of your Cult similar to you - you have a good company.


by WeNeed3rdParty on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:21:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is plain lie! (none / 0)

You mean the kind of company that can use a spell checker...or just plain spell?

Sorry there were so many mistakes I just had to :D


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 01:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is plain lie! (none / 0)

And where is the diarist to call out this guy who throws around insults such as "nazis" and "white supremacists", obviously not knowing anything about nazism or white supremacy. You don't need to be a historian to know that calling someone a nazi for not letting you blog on their site for whatever reason, justified or not, is pretty obtuse. And, really, just plain offensive. I'll do my part and call out the Obama idiots, if you do your part to call out the Clinton idiots. Let's clean up around here.


by cecilybecily on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 07:35:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is plain lie! (1.00 / 1)

Nazis eliminated everybody who disagreed with them; it is exactly what obamakos is doing. it is not insult just the statement of the fact


by WeNeed3rdParty on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 07:52:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is plain lie! (none / 0)

Nazis killed people. Lots and lots of people. In horrible ways. I don't need to go any further with this. Your comments have been offensive and ignorant.


by cecilybecily on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 12:30:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My Story (2.00 / 3)

I read the diary and I'm posting a comment without reading the comment thread -- I just don't have the stomach for it all anymore.

I may also post this as a diary, if I have the stomach to do that.

My story -- I've been a reader at the Daily Kos since 2004, loved the place, got alot of great news there.  I don't remember when I first registered but I know I didn't even post my first comment until two months ago let alone a diary -- I didn't feel quite "worthy" of the level of political discourse there.

I first attributed all the negativity about Clinton as a candidate to the perception of her as a middle of the road deeply flawed candidate.  Fair enough. The Daily Kos IS a self-defined "progressive" website, maybe Senator Clinton was simply not progressive enough.

But then I started to notice what would happen every time a diary went up in support of her -- a pile on of horrible comments from Obama supporters.  The Edwards people might take issue, the Obama people went for blood.

These weren't "trash the other guy" diaries -- these were "why I support Senator Clinton" diaries that immediately devolved into gruesome attacks not just on her, BUT ON HER SUPPORTERS.

the diariest would be attacked for being stupid, misinformed, war mongering, party to dirty politics and politics as usual, only identifying with her gender.

Myself I tried putting a few diaries out there asking everyone to just cool off and back off.  This was in January and early February.  I tried explaining in the most neutral way possible that we weren't doing the party any favors by alienating Clinton supporters with these ugly comments.  So they piled onto me.

Understand, you can't post anything on the Daily Kos as a self-identified Clinton supporter, no matter how balanced, no matter how conciliatory, even if you do not put out one negative word on Obama without being beaten in the comments with personal attacks.

Then there was the sexism.  The off the cuff smart ass comments from Obama supporters that stank of it.  But we couldn't talk about that either without getting shut down.  one diary in particular I remember that tried to discuss sexism degraded into a debate, ON A PROGRESSIVE BLOG, as to whether sexism even anywhere exists anymore, full of assertions that it isn't damaging and the "feministas" had to stop "whining" about it.

Then the outright thuggery started -- troll rating any comment that was pro-Clinton.  Mass recommending any pro-Obama/anti-Clinton diary no matter how superficial or poorly informed.

One by one the few remaining patient reasoned voices that supported Senator Clinton disappeared, I assume many, like myself, to turn up over here.

Within all that I read where dozens of former Edwards supporters were fed up with it all too.  And here's the result --

At first I struggled knowing I want a Democrat in the Whitehouse.  I want to work for the candidate, but I have serious reservations about walking into an Obama campaign office if I am going to be working side-by-side with the type of people who post on the Daily Kos.  I am so concerned by this "trash and burn" mob mentality I'm going to have to sit this one out.  That is truly Obama's loss if you multiply that by a hundred or even ten.

Then it went to the next sad step in my mind -- what sort of candidate inspires this sort of venom and ruthlessness "winner take all and f&ck you loser" mentality I've never seen before outside of  a Young Republicans street rally?  What kind of persons is this candidate attracting and "inspiring"?

Every time a commentor here or there writes "well, good riddance, dumbass we are going to win anyway" I have to wonder just what sort of "change" we are looking at.

Does an Obama Movement mean all dissent is unwelcome?  Any who challenge or question will be shown the door?  THAT'S where the "Kool-aid"