MyDD :: eBay sellers to strike

eBay sellers to strike

by Shai Sachs, Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 05:25:31 PM EST

Last summer, I wrote that the labor movement should begin organizing online workers. It appears that a group of eBay sellers are about to start ~~striking~~ boycotting, without any help from labor unions. At issue is the sudden imposition of policies by eBay which sellers deem harmful to their business. The policies will be imposed starting Feb. 20, and the ~~strike~~ boycott will go from Feb. 18 - 25.

There are a couple of issues at play. One is that fees will increase by as much as 66% for some sellers. Another, apparently far more explosive, issue is that eBay will soon turn off negative and neutral comments, requiring sellers to go through eBay's Security & Resolution Center to report bad behavior. This move will almost certainly tie up sellers in needless bureaucracy, in place of today's simple system for resolving disputes. CNN and Mashable have more. Follow me across the flip for some thoughts on how the labor movement should respond to this development...

Update (2/18): There are a lot of interesting comments below; sorry I didn't get to them earlier. Some of the commenters are pointing out that this action is technically a boycott, not a strike, and that's a fair point; I've corrected the text here accordingly. Note, however, that there's a fine line between the two in this case, and I think that's pretty interesting. More this weekend.

While eBay boycotts aren't new, this one appears to be much larger than previous ones, and sellers appear to be genuinely furious. The boycott is related to the resignation of eBay CEO Meg Whitman, expected in March 2008. (Whitman, incidentally, seems to be a staunch Republican; she was on Romney's campaign and has been considered a cereandidate for CA-Gov in 2010.) Her replacement, John Donahue, initiated the new fee structure and policies earlier this year.

So far eBay doesn't appear worried about the ~~strike~~ boycott, and it's hard to tell whether the company will budge an inch in light of the boycott campaign. More upsetting is the fact that - as far as I can tell by browing around labor blogs - labor unions seem to be entirely unaware of this grassroots ~~strike~~ boycott. That's a real shame, because this could be an opening into a segment of the economy which is not heavily unionized.

There are a variety of interesting challenges in this ~~strike~~ boycott. First, what is the standing of eBay sellers to organize ~~a strike~~ (assuming they might eventually want to form something like a union)? What legal reforms or litigational victories would be necessary for the ~~striking~~ sellers to force recognition and collective bargaining? Moreover, given that the sellers are, for the most part, individuals working independently, how can they be reached and organized effectively?

I'd like to see the labor movement take a crack at some of these challenges, because I think they are the key to organizing a new class of workers which is only going to get larger and the economy becomes increasingly digitized. These are not easy questions to answer, by a long shot, but I think there is a group of workers who are yearning to organize and be recognized, and I think the labor movement should stand in solidarity with them.

Tags: eBay, labor movement, online workers (all tags)

Permalink :: 18 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

COnfused a bit here. Although many eBay sellers are individual small proprietors operating out of their homes, others represent small and large businesses operating out of larger facilities attempting to extend their customer base. They employ workers.

Isn't it those workers that unions should be interested in representing?

Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.

by shergald on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 05:45:49 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

You raise a very good point, which is a challenge to organizing eBay sellers that I hadn't considered above. Not all eBay sellers are individual workers, so if a labor union were to organize eBay sellers, it'd have to decide, in some way, who's eligible to join a bargaining unit and who wasn't. Should only individual proprietors be eligible? What about small businesses which are entirely employee-owned? And so forth.

And on the other side, labor unions should be able to organize the workers of small and large who are using eBay as an additional marketing tool. Unions are capable of doing that now, theoretically in any case, though an unfriendly political environment, and a climate of corporate union-busting certainly don't help.

However, consider a halfway-realistic hypothetical position. Someone starts an organization for eBay sellers, which doesn't have legal power to negotiate with eBay, but which is capable of lobbying the company in a regular and organized way. Let's say that any eBay seller, no matter how large or small, is eligible to join the organization. If the organization was sufficiently powerful that membership in the organization was a must for many sellers, than the organization could use its membership rules as leverage to help the workers of its business members, by requiring that members adopt neutrality policies toward unionization drives.

I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the idea that labor unions should be organizing online workers like eBay sellers - at least, in the classic sense. I still think someone should be doing it, and whoever that organization is, it should be working closely with organized labor, because there are clearly opportunities for both sides to benefit, as this thought experiment illustrates.

Strengthening the progressive movement through liberal entrepreneurship http://www.plantingliberally.org

by Shai Sachs on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 03:07:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

This move will almost certainly tie up sellers in needless bureaucracy, in place of today's simple system for resolving disputes.

The current system is broken. Hardly anyone leaves sellers negative feedback because sellers just retaliate with negative feedback. Sellers don't get to pick their buyers so the feedback score on the buyer doesn't help them.

This situation reminds of the AMA going nuts every time somebody tries to rate doctors. The current system favors sellers and their strike is pure self-interest.

by Monkey In Chief on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 05:53:52 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

The eBay system is broken. Gave up on it one year ago. Calculating fees is confusing, there is a flat listing fee and graduated percentages of sales totals. The customers are hopelessly demanding. The sellers are frequently clueless. On eBay, sterling silver consistently moves at less than scrap value. No eBay purchase comes with clear title. There are constant efforts by state and local government to intervene in the clear title issue. There are real problems that need to be addressed. Don't see how a strike would resolve them.

by DaleA on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 06:11:43 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

I agree with the feedback change.

This is a case where consumers have been powerless for a long time. Any gains we have made in the broader marketplace have been completely dismissed on ebay.

Feedback on ebay about sellers is meaningless today. I never leave neutral or negative feedback about a seller. NEVER. Because I know I'll automatically get a retaliatory negative back.

It's been a complete tyranny of sellers.

There is absolutely no way to know if a seller is good or bad. Only the most horrific sellers have negatives.

And if you check, in those cases, the brave buyers who left the negative - and you can tell it's for legitimate reasons, because they are all saying they experienced the exact same thing at the hands of the seller - automatically got a negative in return.

Even though all they did was 1) pay on time 2) have the nerve to say the thing they wasted their hard earned money on was junk, and/or they had to wait 3 months after begging for it.

There is no way to warn others about the bad experience you had. So the seller just keeps on making money this way, at the expense of others.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. I'd say 1/4 of my transactions with buyers are junk I end up throwing away. And I have bought thousands of things on ebay, so I'm speaking from lots of experience.

Why do I go back? If I can find what I want at local antique stores, I buy from them. But if not, there's virtually nowhere else to buy these things online. Other sites have sprung up, but failed, because ebay is in effect a monopoly.

Consumers are at the mercy of the people running ebay. Which is why I was surprised they finally looked out for our interests. In the past, they did whatever it took to make the most profits for themselves (and probably still are with this change - they sensed a shift in the economy.)

Ratings of sellers have always been the norm in a marketplace (not buyers!) Look at all the other shopping sites on the net.

I think it's about time someone restored the balance to the consumers.

by Larissa on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 06:15:26 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

Sorry typo there - 1/4 of all my transactions with SELLERS are junk I throw away.

by Larissa on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 06:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

Very interesting perspective. I buy things on eBay very rarely, and usually they're long tail items like laptop chargers - can't buy them at local stores, don't want to pay a huge markup at the manufacturer's site. So far I've had good experiences, but it's a small sample size.

Still, I think the answer is for eBay to develop software to sniff out junk negative ratings. It sounds like there are some clear patterns of seller abuse - e.g., a seller who consistently gets negative ratings and then "retaliates" against buyers who otherwise have few ratings and/or mostly positive ratings. It's relatively easy to write software which detects that kind of behavior and bans it, flags it, suspends accounts, or otherwise prevents abuse. The new policies sound a bit like eBay taking a sledge hammer to a nail.

At the end of the day, I guess I don't really know enough to really judge the situation well. From a bird's eye point of view, it sounds to me like there are at least three sets of interested parties - sellers, buyers, and eBay - and eBay holds all the cards. Ideally, I think, all three should be able to hash out these kinds of issues on something like equal footing.

Strengthening the progressive movement through liberal entrepreneurship http://www.plantingliberally.org

by Shai Sachs on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 03:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

I used to shop frequently on ebay but I stopped for a few reasons. For one thing, the prices have gone up (probably due in part to increased fees) so that they are almost on a par with stores where you can actually look at the merchandise. For another, there is not an adequate feedback system. Sellers who use the feedback system to intimidate buyers are increasing. Also, many sellers have begun hiding who is bidding, making it easier for them to use sock puppets to raise the auction price.

I tend to find a few stores I like, strike up a pen-pal relationship with the seller, and stick with them.

by TheFatLadySings on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 06:24:09 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

I noticed the sock puppet on some auctions, too.

It's a jungle out there for consumers on ebay.

You have to tread so carefully to not get burned.

by Larissa on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 06:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

I'm a buyer on Ebay and I stopped leaving any positive feedback at all with only one exception - if a seller gave me me positive feedback after I pay (which is always immediately), which is the completion of my responsibility according to the Ebay contract. If a seller does not leave me feedback after I have kept my part of the bargain then I do not leave feedback until he or she does. Otherwise the seller is holding me hostage and can leave negative feedback even after selling utter garbage or not performing at all. The feedback system is a complete fraud the way it is now.

The two negatives I have accrued were both retaliatory feedback from vicious, threatening, irrational, non-performing sellers who I felt compelled to warn others about. I encourage all Ebay buyers to adopt a similar policy regarding the bestowing of feedback on sellers. Never leave feedback first! It is merely acquiescing to an unjust system that has been in effect far too long.

by 07rescue on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 06:27:58 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

I'm not sure any organized labor has any part in this. Aren't ebay sellers acting as small-business people, not workers? These are business issues not labor issues.

by mady on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 07:26:29 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

Internet-based commerce has been blurring the lines between boss/worker ever since its inception. What has not changed is that the big fish, eBay, will not hesitate to do anything without an organized counterweight.
I think Sachs is right in that larger institutions interested in fostering coordination amongst people along common interests (like unions) should support the eBay strikers. Not because they'll become union members, per se, but to encourage and grow the culture of organizing. Organizing isn't just in the workplace, but amongst tenants, voters, and apparently small eBay sellers.

by Francisco Cendejas on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 10:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

I appreciate your comment, it's helped me refine my thinking on this idea. Up to this point I've been thinking of the union's role in all this as a classic organizer of workers - i.e., an organization which helps a group of workers form a bargaining unit, negotiate and approve a contract, etc. There were some real challenging issue in that idea (including the fact that eBay sellers aren't employed workers, per se,) but I figured that some kind of creative legal footwork could get around that.

Now, I'm beginning to think of eBay sellers as a group which should be organized, although not really in the sense of banding together into a formal bargaining unit. Instead, I think the group structure would have to be something like a trade association, which, although it doesn't have the legal right to negotiate a contract with eBay, still has the necessary economic heft to force the company's hand to some degree.

I think a savvy labor union has a lot to contribute and a lot to gain by allying with such a trade association. In terms of contributions, a union can be very helpful in terms of helping organize individuals, finding the company's pressure points, and otherwise "mentoring" the association. In terms of gains, a union can use the power of the association as leverage - in forming a bargaining unit of eBay employees, for example, or in requiring trade association members to agree to neutrality in organizing drives.

I'll try and follow up this weekend with some more coherent thoughts. In the meanwhile, thanks!

Strengthening the progressive movement through liberal entrepreneurship http://www.plantingliberally.org

by Shai Sachs on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 03:28:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

Isn't this a boycott, not a strike?

by Mth on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 11:03:09 PM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

Yes, it is, and I apologize for the confusion on that. I'll update in a couple minutes.

Strengthening the progressive movement through liberal entrepreneurship http://www.plantingliberally.org

by Shai Sachs on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 03:29:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

1) Those are not sock puppets.

Several months ago, eBay instituted a change that gave numbered identities to bidders on items in the $100+ class... in order to protect people from being offered outside deals (where eBay makes no money on the Final Value Fees) or otherwise interfering with the auction process itself. If you've ever bid on something, you'll understand the frustration of seeing the auction pulled because of suspected shenanigans, whether they occurred or not. eBay doesn't even like it if people get too chatty with their questions.

Another reason for masking bidders is that some people with lots of money may intimidate other bidders who've lost to them before. "Oh, Mrs Fiddle-Faddle is bidding; I'll go bid on something else." (Yes, I've avoided bidding when seeing certain names.) This keeps the bid prices down, but eBay doesn't get those higher FVFs.

If I bid on something expensive, you won't see my username, but it is nothing that I have any control over.

2. This is not a strike. It is a boycott. One that I support as both a buyer and a seller.

Employees strike. We are not employees. We who sell are all individuals: selling different items for different reasons in different formats. Some sellers have storefronts where they offer items they make themselves. (Look under dollhouses, where people make tiny food, tiny hats, tiny furniture!) Some sellers hunt estate sales and auctions for interesting items they can pick up cheaply, clean, and offer for auction on eBay. (Look under vintage jewelry or antiques.) Some sellers buy a lot of cheap junk from China and have virtual warehouses where you can buy-it-now and get 270 plastic parrot toothpick holders. (Look under electronics or housewares.)

Organizing a self-representing artist with a "novelty" seller isn't going to work as a marriage or a union.

3) Why we are revolting...

We hate being insulted and tarred. "lily-white" sellers and "don't throw stones" are examples of inserting religious overtones into what ought to have been a business statement. Griff wants religious denigration and guiltiness, he can leave it in church!

We hate being lied to. The fees are marketed and advertised and promoted as a decrease, to bring more sellers to eBay, but once you get to the Final Value Fees, we saw the unconscionable increase. Saving 2 cents on an insertion fee, but paying $1.80 more on a FVF is not a decrease.

We hate being ripped off. eBay made some piss-poor decisions last year (buying Skype and granting millions of dollars in bonuses to non-performing staffers) and so they are trying to recoup that loss from the seller's fees. Guess who ends up paying for their corporate mismanagement? The little people. Their income stream is almost entirely from seller's fees!!!

We hate having our efforts at customer satisfaction derided and dinged so that eBay can a) charge us higher FVFs, b) force every seller to use PayPal (a company they own) and c) hold those moneys hostage in PayPal for 21 days... where they get the interest from the float! So, 12% FVF, 4% PayPal fee, plus listing fees, packaging, and shipping, on top of actually making the item and photographing it? Then some user complains about higher prices and eBay dings the sellers again.

We hate the anonymous stars used as weapons by idiots or newbies who fail to understand what feedback is, or who blame the seller for things outside their control... especially postage and mailing times. Example: a used book sold for less than a dollar. Shipped via media mail (the cheapest method)... then dinged because the Post Office took 2-3 weeks to get it across the country! :grrrr: Yet if I'd shipped it first class, he'd have dinged the other star for excess postage!!! If a buyer sees the shipping method and bids anyway, it is not fair to complain later. If the Post Office charges X dollars for shipping and Y dollars for insurance, why expect the seller to eat those costs??? Why blame the seller for the postage fees??? Simply don't bid, and buy it locally.

We hate dishonesty. Saying that we can only leave nice feedback is like saying you must give valentines to everybody in the class, including the bully who steals your lunch money. I've had my first non-paying bidder, and she was a snotty bitch. No, I didn't leave feedback, because I'd be absolutely honest about her... and she'd damage MY 100% rating in retaliation. Why should she be classed with the wonderful people I've met as both a buyer and seller? We won't lie. We just won't say anything, and that will eventually destroy the system of trust that feedback was supposed to promote.

We hate a company that sheds and denies responsibility (just like the Bushies) for the results of their own policies. They have 60,000 non-paying bidders per day, every day, and THAT is a problem. Saying that we can only give nice feedback won't make that problem go away!!! Their system for dealing with scamsters and non-paying bidders and retaliatory buyers or sellers doesn't work. Nice feedback won't bandage it. They've got the servers, they can police their own marketplace. They can oust non-paying buyers or scam sellers. But they don't want to take responsibility.

So, if you really want to know what is happening, with the perspective of a lot of the little people, read this thread and nose around a bit in the forums.

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?t hreadID=2000509228&start=0

by hauksdottir on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 08:35:07 AM EST

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

Thanks for some of this clarification. I'll correct the post about the strike/boycott in a minute.

And while I do understand why this is being called a boycott, at the end of the day it's an organized work stoppage. For legal reasons it's a boycott, but in many ways it's not far off from a strike.

I also appreciate that sellers are a very diverse group and might not all fit into a single cohesive organization. I think that's yet another challenge for anyone who wishes to organize sellers, but I don't think it's necessarily an insurmountable one. SEIU, after all, organizes both nurses and janitors, and it's a very powerful union with a strong internal culture. On the other hand, there's no reason why there can't be more than one organization for different groups of sellers.

Strengthening the progressive movement through liberal entrepreneurship http://www.plantingliberally.org

by Shai Sachs on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 03:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: eBay sellers to strike (none / 0)

NOT SURE IF YOU SHOULD BOYCOTT?

Here's a link to the Deutsche Bank conference on the ramifications of the eBay changes. Absolutely stunning stuff here, folks. Anyone debating on the merits of the boycott needs to read this pdf file:

http://imamerchant.org/blog/wp-content/u ploads/2008/02/deutschebankpatel020608.p df

by justraf on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:21:51 PM EST

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