Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Primaries

There is a tremendous amount of information floating around here, much of it wrong, a lot of it right, about Florida and its primary. One very good, but incomplete, diary by RenaRF can be found HERE, entitled "Not Like This."  I agree with many of RenaRF's sentiments, but am discouraged by a few missing facts, and by the MANY misunderstandings in the comments.  I will attempt, as dispassionately as possible, to add a bit of information to the conversation.

First, Florida's actual LAW, as it stands today.  F.S. 103.101 actually sets the date of the Presidential Primary for both parties.  To have a new primary would require an act of the Legislature and the signature of the Governor, and both are Republican.

Cross-posted at the Big Orange Blog, so if you want people there to see it this is the place to recommend and comment.

The law states, in relevant part:

(1)  Each political party other than a minor political party shall, on the last Tuesday in January in each year the number of which is a multiple of 4, elect one person to be the candidate for nomination of such party for President of the United States or select delegates to the national nominating convention, as provided by party rule.

What does this mean?  Well, the easy part is that it means Florida's Democratic Party can not hold another primary, in person or by mail.  But what else does it mean? Can Florida's Democratic Party hold caucuses, or a mail-in "straw poll"?  Well, that's a tough call.  On the one hand, the LAW says the party SHALL have a primary  and SHALL elect one person to be the candidate, but there's a caveat, "as provided by party rule."  That creates a conflict in the statute, since the statute requires a primary, but the Party rules permit caucuses.  The Supreme Court, in California Democratic Party v. Jones, et al., described the supremacy of parties in primaries, under a freedom of association analysis.  

Conclusion?  Caucuses, or something that looks like them, are probably okay.  Ditto straw polls.  

But what actually happened?  Lots of people have talked about "punishing" Florida, as if it were a 3 year old to be put in timeout.  But it is not.  It is a tremendously important State filled with millions of dedicated Democrats.  How did we get here?

Well, it started with both parties in the legislature looking to move the primary date up some, to have some relevance.  Both parties were behind it.  No question about it.  But then something funny happened.  The Republican-controlled legislature not only picked an early date, it picked a REALLY early date, January 29, 2008.  From there, let the Florida Democratic Party tell you what happened:

Initially, before a specific date had been decided upon by the Republicans, some Democrats did actively support the idea of moving earlier in the calendar year.  That changed when Speaker Rubio announced he wanted to break the Rules of the Democratic and Republican National Committees. Following this announcement, DNC and Florida Democratic Party staff talked about the possibility that our primary date would move up in violation of Rule 11.A.

Party leaders, Chairwoman Thurman and members of Congress then lobbied Democratic members of the Legislature through a variety of means to prevent the primary from moving earlier than February 5th.  Party leadership and staff spent countless hours discussing our opposition to and the ramifications of a pre-February 5th primary with legislators, former and current Congressional members, DNC members, DNC staff, donors, activists, county leaders, media, legislative staff, Congressional staff, municipal elected officials, constituency leaders, labor leaders and counterparts in other state parties.  In response to the Party's efforts, Senate Democratic Leaders Geller and Wilson and House Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house.

The primary bill, which at this point had been rolled into a larger legislation train, went to a vote in both houses. It passed almost unanimously. The final bill contained a whole host of elections legislation, much of which Democrats did not support. However, in legislative bodies, the majority party can shove bad omnibus legislation down the minority's throats by attaching a couple of things that made the whole bill very difficult, if not impossible, to vote against. This is what the Republicans did in Florida, including a vital provision to require a paper trail for Florida elections. There was no way that any Florida Democratic Party official or Democratic legislative leader could ask our Democratic members, especially those in the Florida Legislative Black Caucus, to vote against a paper trail for our elections. It would have been embarrassing, futile, and, moreover, against Democratic principles.

"Hey man, I don't want to read all that.  Tell me what happened."  Okay, I will.  We got hosed.  After the Republicans f'ed us on the date and rejected our amendments to move it back to Super Tuesday, they shoved the whole thing into an Omnibus Bill that included paper trails for ballots.  We had already lost on the date.  But there was no way the Florida Democrats were going to vote against paper ballots.  It was, in effect, the ultimate poison pill.

Also, it only meant losing half the delegates, so at least Florida would still have a voice.

"What?!  What are you talking about?"

Well, you see, the DNC Delegate Selection Rules 2008 were actually written in 2006.  The Florida Legislature amended the statute in Spring, 2007.  At that time (and actually, still, but read on) the rule said:

Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty (50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state's delegation. In determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state's delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the next nearest whole number.

"Hey, doesn't that solve the problem?  Sure, they get less, but they're not 'disenfranchised,' right?"  Well, yeah, but then came Donna Brazile.  Now mind you, the DNC Rules Committee did not even need to meet, the sanctions were automatic:

Upon a determination of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee that a state is in violation as set forth in subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C. of this rule, the reductions required under those subsections shall become effective automatically and immediately and without further action of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, the Executive Committee of the DNC, the DNC or the Credentials Committee of the Democratic National Convention.

On August 25, 2007, long after the Florida Legislation passed, Ms. Brazile decided she was going to make an example of Florida.  She said ""I'm going to send a message to everybody in Florida that we're going to follow the rules."  By "the rules," by the way, she meant the date of primary rules, not the DNC's own rules about punishment.  What the Rules Committee really did was create an ex post facto new rule to punish Florida (and Michigan).  Did the Rules Committee have the authority to do that?  Let's look again at the Rules:

Nothing in the preceding subsections of this rule shall be construed to prevent the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee from imposing additional sanctions, including, without limitation, those specified in subsection (6) of this section C., against a state party and against the delegation from the state which is subject to the provisions of any of subsections (1) through (3) of this section C., including, without limitation, establishing a committee to propose and implement a process which will result in the selection of a delegation from the affected state which shall (i) be broadly representative, (ii) reflect the state's division of presidential preference and uncommitted status and (iii) involve as broad participation as is practicable under the circumstances.

WHOA!  It looks like they had the authority, but also had an obligaton.  How did they establish a procedure that was (a) broadly representative, (b) reflected the State's preference, and (c) involved broad participation? Simple answer.  They didn't.  NOT.  AT.  ALL.  But what is this "subsection (b) of this section C"?  Funny you should ask, because it doesn't really apply.  You see, the "failure" falls under subsection (2), as noted above:

Nothing in these rules shall prevent the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee from imposing sanctions the Committee deems appropriate with respect to a state which the Committee determines has failed or refused to comply with these rules, where the failure or refusal of the state party is not subject to subsections (1), (2) or (3) of this section C. Possible sanctions include, but are not limited to: reduction of the state's delegation; pursuant to Rule 21.C., recommending the establishment of a committee to propose and implement a process which will result in the selection of a delegation from the affected state which shall (i) be broadly representative, (ii) reflect the state's division of presidential preference and uncommitted status and (iii) involve as broad participation as is practicable under the circumstances; reducing, in part or in whole, the number of the state's temporary and permanent members to the Standing Committees; reducing, in part or in whole, the number of guests, VIP and other passes/tickets to the National Convention and related functions; assignment of location of the state's delegates and alternates in the Convention hall; and assignment of the state's housing and other convention related facilities.

In other words, the complete ban should not have happened. What should have happened? Funny you ask, because there is a rule about that, too:

In the event a state shall become subject to subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C. of this rule as a result of state law but the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, after an investigation, including hearings if necessary, determines the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules and determines that the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in attempting to prevent legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee may determine that all or a portion of the state's delegation shall not be reduced. The state party shall have the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules and that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in attempting to prevent the legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules.

Let's break that one up, okay?

In the event a state shall become subject to subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C. of this rule as a result of state law

Okay, Florida meets that requirement.  The date change was a legislative act.

but the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, after an investigation, including hearings if necessary,

Was there an investigation? I don't remember one.  Were there hearings?  Nope.  Not one.

determines the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules

Is this the stumbling block?  There is no question Florida Democrats tried to amend the statute to bring it into compliance with the rule.  They lost.  However, you might say, the Democrats then voted for the law. Yes, they did, but they were also voting for paper trails.  Is the DNC really saying the Democrats, who tried to amend the statute and lost, should have voted against paper trails?  Gosh I hope not.  This is about one election.  Paper trails are about EVERY election. Also, having failed to hold an investigation, they were not in a position to make such a decision, were they?

and determines that the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in attempting to prevent legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules,

Tell me, if you could, how you act to "prevent legislative changes" OTHER than to attempt to amend the legislation?  Really, isn't that what they did, and failed?

the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee may determine that all or a portion of the state's delegation shall not be reduced. The state party shall have the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules and that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in attempting to prevent the legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules.

"Legislative changes," as is AMENDMENTS.  

By all appearances, the DNC Rules Committee did not even try. It simply DEMANDED that Florida have caucuses, or non-binding "primaries," after the early 4, or SCREW FLORIDA.  

Could somebody please find that SCREW FLORIDA section in the rules?  Because I could not.  It ain't there.

What does this mean moving forward? I haven't a clue. The DNC royally screwed the pooch on this one.  Obama supporters sure have a good argument the primary that was held should not count, given the DNC's ruling.  Clinton supporters have just as good an argument that under the Rules, AS WRITTEN AND STILL IN FORCE, the August 25 action was null and void, therefore revert to the actual rules and count 1/2 the pledged delegates.

What should happen?  Well, there my biases might show, so I won't try.



Display:


Can to DNC be sued? (none / 0)

If not, I'm not against a 3-way race in the general election.


by JimR on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:32:52 PM EST

"the" not "to" (none / 0)


by JimR on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:37:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They have been (2.00 / 3)

and Florida lost.

There are a couple of inaccuraciesa in this otherwise well done diary, but they change the story somewhat.

Has the DNC been sued?
Yes, and the result was entirely predictable.  It is settled law that the Parties have the power to determine who can be seated at their conventions.
http://politics.wizbangblog.com/2007/12/ 05/judge-rules-in-favor-of-dnc-over-flor ida-primary-date.php

Did the DNC conduct a hearing?
Yes, they did. Karen Thurman, chair of the Florida Democratic Party and Sen. Nelson presented to a sub-committee on December 3rd.  The Committee gave Florida 30 days to comply with the order to move the primary, or lose their delegates.

Did Democrats really oppose the primary?
No.  Here the reasons are complex.  One of the great frustrations that I have had with the discussions on this issue is the failure of outsiders to understand that the primary was NOT the most important thing that Floridians voted in January.  Also on the ballot was a tax referendum that in my opinion will severely damage education in Florida.  Most Democrats opposed the initiative.  For Florida Democrats to oppose the primary would have meant conceding the tax initiative - which would have been a terrible mistake.

While one can cite individual steps taken before the date was moved indicating opposition to the primary, the truth is Florida Democrats thought the DNC was bluffing when they were warned that our delegates would be taken away.

Florida Democrats are not innocents here.

Did any candidate violate the ban on Campaigning?
No.  Clinton's visits to Florida before the primary were fund raising events and not a violation of the ban.  Obama ran a national ad on cnn Florida - but this did not violate the ban either

What were the candidates position on Michigan and Florida?
Neither violated the ban in Florida, so in my opinion the notion that either can claim to be standing up for Florida is hogwash.  Hell, neither even attended the Florida State Convention in October.

Clinton kept her name on the ballot in Michigan, but said at the time "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," quotes in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101100859. html

My own opinion is that this clust-f is largely the fault of Howard Dean, who should have seen this train wreck coming and brokered a compromise BEFORE people voted. We have a party chairman for a reason, to lead.  Resolving this after the fact is impossible as the arguements being made now so reek of self-interest that they are hard to take seriously.


by fladem on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:47:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They have been (none / 0)

Excellent addition to an excellent post. Thanks!

I could do with more of this and less of the mudslinging on MyDD these days.

by PhilFR on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 11:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you (2.00 / 3)

Excellent write up...I did not know about the paper trail provision in the bill, now it makes a lot of sense why the FL Dems voted for it.  

This is such a screw up, somebody's head should roll...I'm just not sure who's head it should be at this point.


by Nobody on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:45:04 PM EST

Wow (2.00 / 4)

Some real information. Thanks.

I had no idea about Donna Brazile's role in all this.  And she is also out there in the middle of the Superdelegate witch hunt.

Very interesting.


by MediaFreeze on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:47:02 PM EST

Re: Florida Law, (2.00 / 3)

The DNC, in fact, could have chosen not to strip any of Florida's delegates. Florida tried to change the new law with amendments and failed. Florida has an excellent case to fight this in court and win.


by americanincanada on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:58:29 PM EST

Re: Florida Law, (2.00 / 1)

There is no way they would win in court- as pointed out above it is settled law that each party has the right to decide which delegates are seated.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:56:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Prima (none / 0)

Here's a solution that the Florida democratic party could have easily instituted.  On January 29th when Florida held it's primaries,  every Democrat appearing at a polling place would have been given a VBM ballot and told to fill it out and mail it in NO SOONER THAN FEBRUARY 5TH.

That would have solved the problem, but apparently the Florida Democratic party decided not to go that route and instead,

So the Florida Democratic Party's State Executive Committee voted twice to go with the January 29th primary date on the grounds that any other option would result in the disenfranchisement of Florida Democratic voters and that Florida had already been through too much of this before.

It is really hard for me to accept any justification for seating FL delegates as they stand when there were several means to avoid the problem before it occurred.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:05:22 PM EST

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Prima (2.00 / 4)

Thank you for this information. We have to seat MI and FL delegates. This whole election is about taking back the Whitehouse and expanding majorities in the House and Senate. No matter how half of us love Hillary and half love Obama, the reality is that neither will win the nomination outright (and according to the "rules."

If we go to a brokered convention, we'll lose in November. A brokered convention signals that we are too divided to form a cohesive voting block.

I firmly believe the only way out of this with a chance is to have a Clinton/Obama ticket, seat the FL and MI delegates with 1/2 or all delegates -- it won't matter at that point, and let's get on with the real work at hand -- taking on the GOP.


by seattlegonz on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:08:44 PM EST

I strongly agree (2.00 / 1)

There are three critical large states these days in elections - Florida, Ohio, and Michigan.  We Democrats must carry at least two of them, or else we will lose....period.

Hillary cannot win unless we carry at least two of them.  Obama cannot win unless we carry at least two of them.

If we play this right, we could win all three in November.  If we play this wrong, we could lose all three, not just two.

For those who don't remember recent history...

2000

Michigan - Gore 51%, Bush 47%
Ohio - Bush 50%, Gore 46%, Nader 3%
Florida - *Bush 49%, **Gore 48.99999%

2004

Michigan - Kerry 51%, Bush 48%
Ohio - **Bush 51%
, **Kerry 49%*
Florida - Bush 52%, Kerry 47%

So how the heck are we supposed to win at least two of them this time, if we don't treat the voters the way THEY deserve to be treated?


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

weird (none / 0)

I guess ***s mess up HTML here, since I know I closed the bold statements properly lol.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:12:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Prima (none / 0)

Kind of funny how whenever someone says we need to end this, we can't take this to the convention, it ALWAYS turns out that "the only way out of this with a chance" is for the ticket to be Clinton/Obama.

Using CNN's delegate numbers, Obama is +49 with supers counted, making him +7 if we admit Florida.  

I can certainly accept a compromise where we count Florida.  MI will need a new election in order to be seated -- there's no way they can be seated as is without a huge rupture in the party.


by mddem456 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:21:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Prima (2.00 / 1)

As an Obama supporter I suggest having a little bit of honesty in this regard. The point is that it would be helpful to have them both on the ticket. If they are both going to be on the ticket it makes much more sense for him to be VP (it sets us up better in the long term.) Why is this the case you ask? Because in 8 years he will still be quite young enough to serve 2 terms as President. in 8 years Hillary, by comparison, will be 69 years old. It is going to be hard enough to elect her now; electing her at that age will be near impossible.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:59:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you very much (2.00 / 1)

For taking the time to write up this analysis.  You did wonderfully.

But I still want to hear the rest of the story.  The one that your biases might show.  Your extensive knowledge of this matter renders my confidence in the worthiness of your opinion.


by JoeySky18 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:50:23 PM EST

You make an excellent case for the inclusion of (none / 0)

FL (MI may be another matter). Much more informed than others I've read. I was unaware that the rules as they were then constituted only called for a 1/2 decrease in delegates.  However, doesn't it strike you as a bit dishonest of Clinton to have agreed to the party's penalty before Iowa only to turn around and denounce it a month later.  Given that the other candidates and many voters in FL acted in reliance on Hillary's pledge not to count FL, it hardly seems that the results of the election cannot be taken as truly reflective of the will of the FL electorate.  Who knows how the results would have been altered had the candidates campaigned and had all those who failed to vote thinking the contest was moot been able to cast a ballot.  One theme that has developed from this campaign is that while Hillary started the process with much higher poll numbers, when Obama hit the campaign trail in almost every state he erased or deeply cut into her lead.  This process was not allowed to play itself out in FL because of the reliance people put on Hillary's promise to abide by the party's sanction.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:04:58 PM EST

Obama told the Florida press.... (2.00 / 1)

before the election that he would work to seat their delegates. So Florida voters had assurances from both candidates that their votes would eventually count. Seems to me it is Obama that is reneging on his pledge.


by ineedalife on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:24:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama told the Florida press.... (none / 0)

Obama has given no signs that he would not try to seat their delegates that I have heard, if I missed something I apologize...but unless he said something to that effect I would say you are needlessly trashing him.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 11:01:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you have a cite for this (none / 0)

I've been following the election quite closely and this is the first I've heard of it.  Not saying your wrong, just wanna see it for myself.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Prima (2.00 / 1)

Excellent diary.  I'm interested to hear a response but won't be going over the dkos to find it.  Any one with intelligence, please post here.


by dbrown04 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:23:59 PM EST

Two problems (none / 0)

Seating the FL delegation has always been the stronger argument than MI, but reinstating the delegation with a 1/2 reduction has two problems.

First, it is still a disenfranchisement, but doubled. The people who voted have their votes cut in half, and the people who stayed home because they were told it didn't count get nothing. Moreover, elections are campaigns -- it's not about determining the will of Florida voters, but about seeing which candidate could turn out more supporters. Neither candidate really had a chance to do that.

Second, this solution is politically untenable. It would cut Clinton's delegate margin in FL from 32 to 16. While every delegate counts, that is significantly less useful to her.  Those 16 delegates won't do much to close the gap, so Clinton probably would rather have the issue than the delegates.

By keeping FL disenfranchised, Clinton has an unfairness argument to match up against Obama's unfairness argument on superdelegates voting against the pledged delegate winner. She can muddy the narrative by making it seem like both campaigns are somehow trying to cheat. Stacking an argument that will sway 16 net delegates against an argument that could sway 300 superdelegates, I'm sure Clinton would rather keep fighting than to resolve that one.


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:55:42 PM EST

Re: Two problems (2.00 / 1)

elections are about the will of the people not the will of the campaign managers...

The people in Florida and to a lesser degree Michigan have spoken.


I believe in Hillary
by sonofdonkeykong on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:13:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two problems (none / 0)

I totally disagree. Elections are about nothing more than the will of campaign managers. Whatever the people of Florida and To A Lesser Degree Michigan may think is of no consequence.  Sure, the results of those two primaries are a pure and perfect reflection of how the people feel, but who cares? In the campaign manager demographic, the only one that counts, Clinton and Obama split evenly.


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:27:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two problems (none / 0)

LOL


I believe in Hillary
by sonofdonkeykong on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Brazile (2.00 / 1)

Rove's "buddy".

One woman I would never trust.

Nice diary - very informative!


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:52:56 PM EST

Iowa, NH, SC (none / 0)

Is it true that these three states also violated the rules and should have automatically lost 1/2 of their delegates? Didn't Jerome have this in a front pager the other day?


by ineedalife on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:21:16 AM EST

That is indeed true... (none / 0)

...Under Rule 20.C.1.a. of the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules for the Democratic National Convention, a state that violates the timing of the delegate selection process automatically has its pledged delegates reduced by 50% and its unpledged delegates stripped entirely.

Unfortunately, Rules 20.C.5. and 20.C.6. allow the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee to "impose sanctions the Committee deems appropriate" and that's exactly what the Rules & Bylaws Committee did.  They could have strictly adhered to the provisions of Rule 20.C.1.a., but they decided to show the world how big their dick was and stripped Florida & Michigan of all their delegates.

What they did was legal, but that didn't make it right.


by andrewalker08 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, Whose Head Should Roll? (2.00 / 0)

Donna Brazile's head should roll.

She issued an arbitrary ruling which put the DNC in a huge bind, and DISENFRANCHISED FLORIDA DEMOCRATS completely unnecessarily, with malice aforethought.

I think the Florida Democratic Party should sue Donna Brazile. Donna doesn't want it to be about her, but it most certainly IS about her--it's about her reckless attempt to stack the deck for her guy, Barack Obama.

Thanks for an excellent diary.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:07:10 AM EST

Re-Vote in MI and FL and count the results (none / 0)

in full and thus respect the will of the voters (in properly contested primaries or caucuses.)

That's the right thing to do from the POV of democratic principles and also the best way to beat the GOP's trick to put Dems at a disadvantage in the general (although, both Dems and GOP in FL legislature voted to play games with the primary schedule).

Another important fact is that MI does have a statewide election on August 5th which makes it simply inexcusable not to hold a proper Dem primary in that state at the very least on that day.

DNC can easily fund-raise to cover the costs for both MI and FL do over contests (since the state Dem parties don't have much dispensable funds), as large donations can be made to the DNC (unlike to the candidates, where there are pretty low limits) and I suspect many people would be willing to donate to handle this situation the right way.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:27:13 AM EST

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Prima (none / 0)

Some diaries should be recommended, some are mandatory reading. This falls into the latter category.

Outstanding write-up.


by Bob Miller on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 11:15:12 AM EST

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments (none / 0)

The grave problem is that both voters in Florida and Michigan are disenfranchised unless they are seated at the convention period.

A great way to win an election huh?


by eddiestardust1 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:12:09 PM EST

Re: Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Prima (none / 0)

http://janakdaniel.blogspot.com/2008/03/ some-people-cant-read.html

This post makes three logical errors.  The Rules Committee was under no obligation to create an alternate process, they didn't have to hold hearings, which they did anyway, and they don't have to be nice to Florida even if they did determine that the Democrats did their best to keep the primary date valid, which they didn't.


by janak on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 05:42:42 AM EST

Florida Delegates (none / 0)

This is a great article.  We actually used it for our show today on moblogic.tv.  I don't think this story has made it out into the public eye, and our show is trying to help.

Check it out (http://www.moblogic.tv/video/2008/03/08/ how-the-dems-screwed-florida/), let us know what you think.  Your opinion means a lot to us.

Also take a look at the blog post, which links to this article (http://www.moblogic.tv/blog/2008/03/08/t he-donkeys-hit-florida-where-the-sun-don t-shine/).

Thanks for covering this mess so well.  We love reading your stuff.

Amanda
moblogic.tv


by aelend on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 11:56:09 AM EST


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