Process vs Policy: Organising

A candidate supporter diary for MyDD

The conventional wisdom has emerged in this Democratic primary season that the grass-roots organisational capability of Senator Obama's campaign has delivered him a significant advantage in some of the caucus and primary contests in which he has been engaged with Senator Clinton.  While their liberal or 'progressive' values, and indeed policies, are not separated by much, give or take some ideological fine points, there is a dramatic, almost polar opposite, approach to how these objectives are to be attained which inform not only their respective political philosophies but the strategies of their respective campaigns.


It becomes a contest of power: those who have money and those who have people.  We have nothing but people.

Saul Alinsky

It is interesting to note that both of their careers were intersected by a common influence, community organising as 'pioneered in Chicago's old stockyards neighbourhood by the soberly realistic, unabashedly radical Saul Alinsky.'  In Hillary's case the influence was direct and personal, she met with Alinsky several times and he was the subject of her honours thesis at Wellesley College.  Alinsky was committed to 'working within the system' but did so by encouraging the mobilisation of disadvantaged communities to seize their inherent power as guaranteed by the law.  Hillary's reaction to his brand of radicalism was tentative and while she shared his ideals she did not have much faith in his methods:


"His offer of a place in the new institute was tempting," she wrote in the end notes to the thesis, "but after spending a year trying to make sense out of his inconsistency, I need three years of legal rigor." She enrolled at Yale that fall, a year ahead of a charming Rhodes Scholar from Arkansas.

"I agreed with some of Alinsky's ideas," she explained in "Living History," her 2003 biography, "particularly the value of empowering people to help themselves. But we had a fundamental disagreement. He believed you could change the system only from the outside. I didn't."

Bill Dedman - Reading Hillary Rodham's hidden thesis MSNBC 9 May 2007

This is exactly the distinction between the 'bottom-up' populist approach of Alinksy and the 'top-down' establishment methodology which separates her from Senator Obama on campaign strategy, and on her emphasis on specific policy versus broader reform of the 'processes' implicit in the de facto institutions of government which is fundamental to Obama's long-term intentions for progress and change.  A perspective she clearly articulated again even more recently:


'In the end, the decision to attend law school for me was an expression of this belief: the system can be changed from within. The law can be an incredible vehicle for social change--and lawyers are at the wheel.'

Jeff Gerth and Don Van Natta - Her Way pp 38-39 8 Jun 07

Lawyers and, by implication, legislators, which is how she apparently conceives of her executive role in the presidency, as a super-facilitator of legislative change within the existing institutions of politics as we understand them.  Senator Obama's experience, on the other hand, was informed by the legacy of community organising which Alinsky had pioneered, and his work in the neighbourhoods where existing 'top-down' government and economic programs had failed to complete the process of renewal:


Proponents of electoral politics and economic development strategies can point to substantial accomplishments in the past 10 years. An increase in the number of black public officials offers at least the hope that government will be more responsive to inner-city constituents. Economic development programs can provide structural improvements and jobs to blighted communities.

In my view, however, neither approach offers lasting hope of real change for the inner city unless undergirded by a systematic approach to community organization.

Barack Obama - After Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois pp 35-40 University of Chicago 1990

This essential difference has been evident in Obama's strategy for his campaign from the outset.  Hillary had the support of the Democratic establishment long before her announcement, the support of party insiders, the unions and private sector alliances carefully built and nurtured from the time she began her Senate run in 2000.  Her notion of organising relied on these existing structures from 'within the system' to give her an unchallenged advantage in her bid for the nomination.  Not only had she acquired this support but it was so ubiquitous as to effectively deny these resources to any potential opponent.

Obama, while he had institutional support from Democrats in Illinois and a modest circle of supporters within the party, had only his message of political inclusion and an idea which traced it's lineage directly back to the 'people powered' politics of Alinsky and Chicago, with a 21st century twist.

Senator Obama's campaign began early to create the internal framework to mobilise volunteer supporters as a decentralised 'bottom-up' field organisation which would could grow into a national presence.  While the media was comparing website visits and duelling Facebook groups they missed the real story.  Early pleas for Obama volunteers were matched with a novel technological infrastructure which enabled supporters to communicate, coalesce and align their activities with the strategic objectives of the campaign on a national level:


The costly effort began in the spring of 2007, in part to counter the organizational resources of unions and Democratic Party organizations that were largely committed to Obama's Democratic rival, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York. The precinct-level operations were to employ theories of community organizing Obama practiced in Chicago before getting into electoral politics.

Last April, Obama's national field director, Cuauhtemoc "Temo" Figueroa, wrote an internal memo titled "Turning Enthusiasm into Organization," a blueprint for turning Obama's rock star popularity into a more professional and sustained operation.

The purpose, Figueroa wrote, is to provide supporters with the tools to create "self-sufficient, interdependent teams that take responsibility for all aspects of a campaign within their congressional district."

Tom Hamburger - Grass-roots organizing gives Obama an edge LAT 9 Feb 08

And while both campaigns used the Internet to promote their candidacies there was an inherent difference, Hillary was promoting her message and policies, essentially using the Internet as an on-demand broadcast media, while Obama was enlisting activists and directing them to organise a decentralised but coherent grass-roots campaign:


"I got very little from the Clinton side," said Amy Fried, a political scientist at the University of Maine, who signed up on both campaigns' Web sites to compare them. "But I got a lot from Obama, urging me to come in and work and telling me about events, just giving me lots more."

Patrick Healy and Katherine Q Seely - Knocked Off Balance, Clinton Campaign Tries to Regain Its Stride NYT 14 Feb 08


These early efforts continued, virtually unnoticed, through the doldrums of summer when Obama was stagnant in the polls and Hillary's inevitability was the narrative of the race.  In September 2007 the Obama campaign launched a phone-banking application and tested it in New York, this was to grow into part of the national GOTV effort when the primary season got serious later:


Illinois senator Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign has just launched an online phone-banking management application.    

In an e-mail to supporters, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe writes: "We're planning a big rally in New York City, and I was hoping you could help organize it. We've launched a powerful new tool on My.BarackObama that lets you make phone calls from home on behalf of the campaign."

The application enables supporters to call people generated from a list on Obama's site to attend a Sept. 27 rally in New York City. Like a previous online campaign that encouraged supporters to knock on doors and to spread the word about the candidate, this one carefully walks the potential caller through the phone-banking process.

Sarah Lai Stirland - Obama Campaign Launches New Online Phonebanking Effort Wired 18 Sep 07

By September Obama supporters were aware of this growing capability, as they were part of it, and they were encouraged in their activities by the certain knowledge that the campaign really was depending on them, and valued their efforts, as an integral component of Obama's bid for the nomination.  And while Obama was able to draw crowds visible from space no opportunity was missed to harness this enthusiasm into organised campaign activity:


The campaign attempted to organize that enthusiasm by asking the crowd to text their cell phone numbers to the campaign. Jeremy Bird and Anton Gunn, the campaign's field and political directors, took the stage to ask the crowd to text their phone numbers to Obama's campaign. They also broke a Guinness World Record by conducting the world's largest phone bank, 36,426 people in the audience called four names of South Carolinian voters listed on the back of their tickets and asked them to support Barack Obama.

According to the Obama campaign, 18% of the first 8,500 people who signed into the event said they wanted to volunteer. Sixty-eight percent of people who got tickets online to the event had never been contacted by the campaign before.

Chuck Todd - About 30,000 See Obama-Oprah in SC MSNBC 9 Dec 07

Not only did the grass-roots organisation deliver Iowa, with representation in all 99 counties, but the state-by-state organisation which had been built across the nation on the efforts of self-motivated and independent activists was in place well before the Clinton campaign directed their 'top-down' attention to these races.  It is virtually the 50-state strategy applied to Obama's candidacy, and it has proven remarkably effective:


In Minnesota, "the Clinton campaign was in triage mode," said Lawrence Jacobs, a political scientist at the University of Minnesota. He said Mrs. Clinton appeared to have allocated her dwindling resources to New York and California, the biggest prizes in the Feb. 5 contests (and which she won), investing almost nothing in media advertising in Minnesota and leaving her campaign there "like a M.A.S.H. unit."

At the same time, Mr. Jacobs said, Mr. Obama "had developed almost a new style of campaigning."

"He merges modern campaign technology -- he has the list of names, the follow-up effort, all the literature distribution -- with these phenomenal rock-arena political revivals," Mr. Jacobs said. "In a caucus state, it's formidable."

Patrick Healy and Katherine Q Seely - Knocked Off Balance, Clinton Campaign Tries to Regain Its Stride NYT 14 Feb 08

The outcomes of this approach are now obvious but it worth noting their origins in the philosophy of community organisers like Alinsky, and others, who long ago promoted the idea of 'people powered' politics.  Coupled with the vastly enhanced communication and networking technologies we now enjoy we are seeing what this strategy might look like in the 21st century, and the Obama campaign has been doing it right before our eyes all along:


Barack Obama believes this movement is not just about winning the Democratic nomination, it is about changing the country and in order to do this the campaign has worked to train and equip our volunteers and supporters with the tools they need to play a substantive and meaningful role in this effort.

Temo Figueroa - Camp Obama: Turning Enthusiasm into Organization As reported by Marc Ambinder in The Atlantic 29 Aug 07

Are the recent results, and not just in caucus contests, a vindication of Obama's strategy?  Most definitely, and also an indication of a lasting change in how US national politics may be conducted which bodes well for 'progressives' and the role of participatory democracy in our nation's future.  Hillary may have made the right choice thirty-nine years ago to work as an insider 'within the system' but the times, and the system itself, are a' changin'.



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Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

A fantastic diary. Thank you!

Obama's realization of the 50-state strategy has been impressive and I think, if he wins the nomination, his grassroots success is a sign of great things to come for the Democratic Party.

Each victory he racks up feels like we are taking this damn thing back from the craven and myopic machine that has been running the show for far too long.


by beanbagz on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 06:36:57 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Actually, it's 48 state strategy.


by Iskandar on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:48:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Absolutely terrific diary. Best I've read in some time. Thank you. Obama indeed has become the carrier of the netroots flame, and has done an incredible job of community organizing on a national level. This will serve him very, very well if he becomes the nominee.
by PhilFR on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 06:49:13 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

This is a fascinating read. What is clear is that Obama's campaign methodology and/or execution of has so far been more effective in primaries. What is not clear is if it will be more effective in general elections or effective at all in governing.


by herb the verb on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 06:52:35 PM EST

that is one of my worries (none / 0)

about Obama as well.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 06:55:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The problem (2.00 / 0)

It's frustrating to hear that.

I actually DO understand what you're saying, and I'm not going to bellow "Go read his website!!!" or "Check his white papers!!!".

I've been working on a lengthy, detailed post about his IL State Senate accomplishments.  He really does an extensive and deeply progressive voting record.  No - it's not perfect - but it truly is more leftward leaning than any serious Presidential candidate we've had in... geez.. longer than I've been alive (born in '73).

For a freshman Senator - he's actually got a fairly impressive docket of accomplishments, not just a bill cosponsor, but as a primary bill sponsor.  No - he hasn't rained gumdrops on America.  No Senator can or will.  But he has helped shepherd through some very good legislation -- the ethics bill he sponsored with Russ Feingold and the earmark transparency legislation with Tom Coburn.... He was a key ally with Dick Lugar on non-proliferation and arms sales control legislation.   He sponsored his own immigration bill before ultimately lining up on the omnibus immigration bill that ultimately failed.

It's perhaps the most frustrating part about being an online supporter of Obama.  

I don't think it's a matter of him not having specifics, not having that resume -- it's a matter of his chosen message.

Like it or not -- his message just isn't tailored to "us".  It's tailored to the electorate.  It's tailored to a general election.

I think he's concerned about coming off as too "wonky" -- it was actually something he supposedly "learned" from his 2000 primary challenge loss to Bobby Rush.  

Further - I think he's trying to inoculate himself against the usual "liberal" charges.  He wants to be able to run as the moderate.   As much as many of us would prefer the fire breathing progressive (hell -- it took me until late December to pick Obama over Edwards PRECISELY for that reason) -- I think we also need to recognize that the "happy moderate" is more likely to win a general election than the "fiery liberal".  I wish it weren't true -- but the fact is, we DO need that squishy middle to win a governing majority.

Like I said... I get it -- I'm not downplaying your concern.

I just don't know how to convince you otherwise.   I likewise fear that Obama isn't going to give you what you want during the campaign.   I honestly and truly DO believe he will once in office...but I don't think you're going to hear what you want.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:25:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (none / 0)

I don't think that's necessarily what she meant.

Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but it seems to me that the two logical questions are: (1) can these organizing tactics that work so well in swamping the caucus states be translated into GE success, or do you have to fall back on traditional campaign strategy when you know there will be millions of voters turning out; and (2) can these tactics be applied to governance, in the sense that grassroots energy can be effectively focused to help push the President's agenda through Congress, or is it asking too much for Obama to simultaneously serve as President and as leader of a popular movement?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (none / 0)

A leader can not lead effectively unless the people are behind him/her.  The movement that he is building will make him a MORE effective leader.

Therefore, when repubs decide to oppose something he wants, it becomes more politically risky for them.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:38:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (2.00 / 1)

Yes and no.  This relates to my ubiquitous critique of Obama's trans-partisan message.  Specifically, I very much want him to say that the Republicans are the ones responsible for blocking change in Washington, but he refuses to assign blame, preferring to use phrases like "partisan bickering" that suggest both sides are at fault.  I want him to urge people to pressure Republicans and to vote them out of office, but that's simply not his message.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (none / 0)

I'm sorry, but the pathetic, feeble, roll-over as soon as bush sneers Dems in congress haven't exactly been brave change agents. To say "it's all the Republicans fault" is a little myopic.
by PhilFR on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (none / 0)

Well then, I happen to think we need a myopic message.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:12:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (2.00 / 1)

But then the problem is that the congressional
Democrats have not been partisan enough, not that that they have been too partisan.
by freemansfarm on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (none / 0)

Well --

To item 1) -- I'd remind you that he's also won regular primaries in MD, VA, GA, and IL with enormous turnouts.  I'm not being defensive -- I'm just pointing out that he's also winning the popular vote overall, even with MI totals included.  In other words - while I suppose we won't see what happens until this fall - I think the turnout numbers and the demographics, even beyond caucuses -- bodes well for this fall.

Item 2 is a tougher matter.  I would start my argument - off the top of my head - by saying I'm a believer in Obama coattails.  I think he can bring himself a bigger, working majority.

But to the heart of the matter... Can he shepherd legislation.  Well... I don't know.  I think his demeanor might be a plus in that regard.  I mean -- let's be honest.  We could say the same about Clinton.   We really don't know how well her style will serve her in an executive role either.  I'm not trying to leave your question unanswered... it's just something I'd probably need to think about more.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem (none / 0)

I agree that we're reading tea leaves when we talk about whether a candidate would be able to get things done.

I think it's an interesting question, in the context of this diary, to ask whether Obama's specific organizing techniques would be helpful in terms of governance, or whether they're limited to campaign tools.  For example, when Bush needs support on something, Rush Limbaugh puts the word out and suddenly thousands of outraged talk radio listeners are flooding the phone lines of Congress.  Now, when President Obama needs support, could his White House staff generate the same sort of thing?  Believe me, I'd love it if they could, because our infrastructure on the left really sucks compared to the other guys, and one reason liberal initiatives like Hillarycare die on the vine is the failure to mobilize public support.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:53:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the money was the key (2.00 / 1)

I agree that asking huge crowds to text their cell phone numbers to the campaign was a creative idea. But ultimately, Obama's strategy would not have delivered victory in Iowa if he had not spent tens of millions of dollars here.

From the start, Obama had a huge money-raising machine based in Chicago, with a big assist from Hollywood and the national media. You make it sound like he started with nothing but an idea and a "message of inclusion."

The money made a huge difference in Iowa. Edwards also had a grassroots-oriented strategy, but he couldn't afford to hire as many field organizers as Obama did, for instance.

One organizing tool Obama used in Iowa, which I haven't seen much written about, is hiring telemarketers to make voter ID calls disguised as opinion polls. Three questions: are you planning to caucus? Who's your first choice? Who's your second choice? Thank you for your time.

I don't know how many of those calls I got last year. It was a lot. I always ask who paid for the call, and the answer for almost all of those short survey calls was Obama for America.

Those voter ID calls must have helped Obama's field team immensely to expand the universe of potential supporters. The telemarketing call finds a supporter or leaner, and a field organizer or precinct captain can follow up.

The Edwards field organizers were calling down their lists of regular voters and caucus-goers, but they didn't have time to call thousands and thousands of Iowans who were not on lists.

Without the tens of millions of dollars Obama had to spend in Iowa, his strategy would not have worked. I never saw a final figure, but it's quite possible that he spent more than $30 million in this state.

Now, you can spend money wisely, or you can spend it stupidly. Obama obviously spent money wisely. But let's just say that if Biden had spent $30 million in Iowa and Obama had spent $2 million, I don't think Obama would have walked away with 38 percent of the delegates on January 3.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 06:53:18 PM EST

Re: the money was the key (2.00 / 1)

I agree completely that this organisational effort would have been impossible without the funds to create and support it, as it was certainly costly, and while I acknowledge the institutional support he had for his bid initially from Illinois it is also clear that his fund-raising soon became another example of a broadly based network of relatively modest donations.  I don't mean to minimise the institutional support he had from the outset, and without which his campaign would never have gotten started, but it is also my thesis that he would not have been competitive without using those early resources to successfully reach out to a much broader, and national, donor base.  And certainly ample funding has been one of the cornerstones of his success throughout the campaign.  I intend, hopefully, to make that the subject of the next diary of the series.

Thanks for your insight about the telemarketing activities in Iowa, I was not aware of these.  As you point out it allowed the campaign to 'expand the universe of supporters' in a critical early state.  Did you have any objection to the use of this tactic at the time?  It seems innocuous enough, if effective.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:05:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the money was the key (none / 0)

I think that is the real key difference.  Both Clinton and Obama have used highly sophisticated turnout models to reach out to their voters.  In Iowa and New Hampshire in particular.  But after that she seemed to not be using that capability as much.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:42:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the money was the key (none / 0)

"One organizing tool Obama used in Iowa, which I haven't seen much written about, is hiring telemarketers to make voter ID calls disguised as opinion polls. Three questions: are you planning to caucus? Who's your first choice? Who's your second choice? Thank you for your time.

I don't know how many of those calls I got last year. It was a lot. I always ask who paid for the call, and the answer for almost all of those short survey calls was Obama for America."

Are you sure that these were hired? Because that is the exact script that has been used by every phone banker for the campaign in every state, and the official name of the campaign is "Obama for America."


by dmc2 on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:20:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

That was a fantastic read.  

I guess this shows that Barack Obama should be considered The Great e-Communicator.  


by Poochie on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:00:15 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

You cannot deny that having 500,000 online donors is part of the Obama organizing expertise. When someone contributes 5 dollars even..they are more apt to volunteer. They are invested in his candidacy.
HRC spent over 100 million before New Hampshire...she finished third in Iowa. Money guarantees nothing. But it is necessary to succeed when you are a complete unknown compared to the most famous woman in the world and someone who was on the National Ticket 3 years before. Edwards had a ton name recognition coming into Iowa...why didnt he raise the money?

by hawkjt on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:00:46 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

This is one of the problems with big party politics...  Elections become just a game of political strategy and wordplay, while the important mission of choosing the best leader goes largely ignored.  The PR industry has turned national elections into middle school student council popularity contests.


RantingRaver.com A free thinking liberal blog.
by rantingraver on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:00:54 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (2.00 / 2)

As an organizer, I find it interesting that you say elections "have become just a game of political strategy..." as if there was once some golden age when elections were clean and pure.  

Nominations used to be totally decided at the conventions by party insiders, obviously just getting the right to vote has been a fight for everyone except white land owning men, and it was largely the Daley political machine that delivered the presidency to Kennedy, etc., etc.

What this post points out, i think, is also something that seems to exasperate Clinton supporters: Obama approaching politics like an organizer creates great excitement amongst his ever growing number of supporters and is very effective. The flip side, is that (some) of Hillary's supporters see this as something "wrong" with his supporters.  They are cult like, it is all about Obama the rockstar, etc.

Progressives would do well to remember that voters have never voted purely based on rational self interest. If they did , this would be a very different and better country. People vote based on emotions, on how they perceive people they respect are voting, on who they like best, etc.  

In organizing, we teach brand new organizers an acronym to help them understand an important principle about emotions and decision making:
AHUY = Anger, Hope, Urgency, You.  To inspire people to take action to improve there lives you must first get them angry about their situation, then provide them hope that things can get better, create urgency that now is the time, and finally show them that they as individuals play an indispensable role in creating the desired change.
The Obama campaign has captured this better than any political campaign I have ever seen.


by AllergicToBS on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:40:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Very interesting diary.  There's definitely a lot of innovation and creativity here for future campaigns to learn from.

Now, setting that aside, I'm going to start demanding to check your birth certificate if you keep on saying things like "honours" and "neighbourhood."


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:19:54 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Yeah, I have fallen into Commonwealth usage and admittedly have the UK-English spell-checker installed these days.  But I was born in Manhattan in 1954 in spite of spending the last twenty-four years overseas as a loyal but expatriate US citizen.  There are quite a few of us, actually.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:28:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

The very title of this diary calls your loyalty to the Stars and Stripes into question.  There is a "z" key on your keyboard; don't let it get lonely!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

If it was good enough for the authors of The Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America it is good enough for me.  You aren't serious, are you?


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:23:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Of course I'm not serious!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:05:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

You have totally stripped the Alinsky references by Hillary of the historical context and thereby changed the meaning of what they meant.  What Hillary most disliked about Alinsky was his view that violence was ok in the pursuit of ones goals.  The real contrast is not top-down vs bottom down but violence vs non-violence.  The opposite of Hillary is not bottom-up but rather MLK style non-violence. (link)

Ms. Rodham endorsed Mr. Alinsky's central critique of government antipoverty programs -- that they tended to be too top-down and removed from the wishes of individuals.
But the student leader split with Mr. Alinsky over a central point. He vowed to "rub raw the sores of discontent" and compel action through agitation. This, she believed, ran counter to the notion of change within the system.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:23:11 PM EST

Come on... (none / 0)

You gotta be honest.

Quotes aside -- Hillary's campaign has been a top down campaign.

It's been completely and entirely built on the idea that Mark Penn's "micro-targeting" witchcraft can properly calibrate a message and organization to win  an election.  It's all micro-trends.  It's not about individual contact -- it's about finding the happy sweet spot that crosses multiple tiny demographics.

I'm not saying Penn's a complete idiot - microtrends and tiny demographics have their place when it comes to say... internet advertising.  But on the national political level?  Nonsense.  Foolishness.

It's why she's losing -- and like it or not -- it's another reason I think we're dodging a bullet by keeping the Clinton team off the top of the ticket.

Mark Penn conducting our national fall campaign would be a DISASTER.  Like it or not -- I don't want another fall campaign of process stories about whether the candidate should be wearing "earth tones".   I don't want another campaign paralyzed because they came up with a bad message out of the gate - then argued, fought, and couldn't settle on a better one.

Am I supporting Obama because his campaign has been run much better than Clinton's?

No... but it's an important factor that Democrats should take into account.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come on... (none / 0)

Are you kidding me?  Penn and Axelrod have almost identical methods, microtargeting and all.  There were articles before Iowa discussing exactly who each campaign was targeting.  I think the main difference after that was a money difference that Hillary kept hidden until it was almost too late.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:46:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come on... (none / 0)

Then you should have no trouble citing some.

All the articles I read talked more about the ground game Obama built -- and more than a few openly questioning his broad strategy of organizing on the ground in so many places.

Soo.... gimme a cite.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:04:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come on... (none / 0)

This is the one I can find at the moment.  It is about Iowa.  But I have seen other discussions.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:26:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come on... (none / 0)

This seems more about demographic targeting generally than it does Penn's infamous "micro-targeting".

It doesn't really even get into the loony ideas Penn has on demographics.

Every campaign pays attention to demographics -- I'm talking about a campaign that, top-down, carries it to absurd extremes and thinks it can win by micro-tailoring messages to those subgroups.

"Voters over 65" -- even "women over 65" -- is NOT the type of microtarget bullshit I'm talking about.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come on... (none / 0)

Then I guess I don't know what you're talking about.  


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come on... (none / 0)

I do have to say I enjoyed this short little conversation.  A nice difference from what we have been having usually of late.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (2.00 / 1)

Well, if you have read Alinsky, and her thesis, you would know that the 'agitation' he was talking about was not violent, far from it:


He believed that widespread poverty left America open to the influence of demagogues and that the only antidote was active, widespread participation in the political process. Alinsky envisioned an "organization of organizations," comprised of all sectors of the community - youth committees, small businesses, labor unions and, most influential of all, the Catholic Church.

[...]

A passionate believer that social justice could be achieved through American democracy, Saul Alinsky methodically showed the "have-nots" how to organize their communities, target the power brokers and politically out-maneuver them. The lessons he taught people about the nature of power, imparted dignity to the poor and helped create a backyard revolution in cities across America. His work influenced the struggle for civil rights and the farm workers movement, as well as the very nature of political protest. He was a mentor to several generations of organizers like Ed Chambers, Fred Ross and Cesar Chavez. Alinsky's still thriving Industrial Areas Foundation became the training ground for organizers who formed some of the most important social change and community groups in the country.

The Life of Saul Alinsky

He was an activist who never espoused violence but saw that the legal rights guaranteed by law were not being utilised to empower the disadvantaged.  If you read Hillary's thesis you will see that she felt that the activism he proposed was too radical, and impractical, and she felt that his tactics were 'outside' the system even though they were within the law:


When one moves beyond the city and local issues, the idea of independent national organizing seems impossible.  The Depression demonstrated the feasibility of nationally controlled planning, and a massive war effort convinced us of it's necessity.  Now we are no longer so convinced.

Hillary Clinton - 'There is Only the Fight...': An Analysis of the Alinsky Model p 76 2 May 69

And it was clear that she was reluctant to oppose the institutions of power, at least at that time, by confrontation:


Nevertheless, her classmates insist she was never a radical. Hillary was more willing to work within the system to change things.

Paul Kengor - God and Hillary Clinton pp 28-29 18 Jul 07

I did my research.  To ascribe to Alinsky principles of violence betrays a complete lack of understanding of his philosophy and history.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:43:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

If you did your research then where is the discussion of the time Hillary spent going door to door gathering data that could be used to help special needs children?  And the other work she did that reaches out to the very people that Alinsky said were left out.  If you reject the word violence, then you have to still grant me the difference is a comparison with MLKs way of working within the system vs Alinsky's working from outside the system.  Are you saying that MLK was also top down?  Even if you don't like the word violence, the comparison you are making is an unfair portrayal of Hillary's reasoning.  And I am part of a vast network of grassroots Clinton supporters all across the nation, so no I don't think she is as top down as you do.  I completely reject all of the framing you are trying to do here, and I don't think you really understand Hillary at all.  I wrote about Hillary and Alinsky and MLK here.

I don't like people that "rub blisters raw" like Alinsky was wont to do.  Maybe that isn't violence but I still don't like it.  


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Well, suit yourself.  From my perspective MLK and Alinsky had more in common than Hillary has, or had, with either of them.  In response to your accusation of bias I did quote Hillary as saying, "I agreed with some of Alinsky's ideas particularly the value of empowering people to help themselves." which seems fair.

And your characterisation of Alinsky as 'violent' seems so off-base as to question your motives and integrity in this whole discussion.  So you are a grass-roots activist for Hillary?  Good for you, I am sure there are others, too.  But I also think it is pretty clear that Hillary is a 'top down' politician in philosophy, instinct and practice and I don't find your argument to the contrary the least bit convincing.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:45:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

I don't like pushy people.  Code Pink, for example, sets my teeth on edge because they are way too pushy for my taste.  They come across as screaming harpies to me, no offense intended.  I have read about Alinsky.  His organizational methods and his pushiness, or what comes across to me as pushiness, are not exactly the same thing.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

And please avoid questioning my integrity.  I don't take kindly to that.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

I didn't do it lightly.  Referring to Alinsky as an advocate of violence was out-of-bounds.  I noticed elsewhere you kind of recanted from that but it was pretty lame in the first instance, and just plain innaccurate.  If you unequivocally withdraw that remark I will happily do the same.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:11:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

You have no business questioning my integrity.  You could have said I was mistaken, but that isn't what you said is it?  I'm not in the mood for a quid pro quo with someone who insulted me that way.  


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Suit yourself, it's your integrity.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:44:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

I have every intention of suiting myself, thank you very much.  


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 11:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

What about how you insulted Alinsky.

You call him an advocate of violence, then say that "pushiness" offends you, seemingly implying that this is close enough to violence for you (let's not even mention calling code pink screeching harpies... I can envision the title of the recomended diary if an Obama supporter said that)

Are you unsure of the AFSCME endorsement, because the fight for union rights for public employees in the 1970's was not "polite."


by labor nrrd on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:19:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

I don't like the methods of code pink. And Alinsky, from what I have read, was a very in your face person when that wasn't really necessary.  Maybe violence is the wrong word, and I seem to have misremembered at least part of what I had read about him.  But I have a right to my opinion of him and Code Pink without having my integrity questioned.  

And I don't really remember the union fights in the 1970s very well.  The unions where my dad worked had a lot of unscrupulous characters in them, but nationwide I know that wasn't the case.  But other than that I don't remember much about who did what.  I was in elementary school and into other things at the time.


by Mike Pridmore on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:27:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Sorry but you are totally off base. Alinsky did not endorse violence as a means to an end. want to try another interpretation of that quote?


by AllergicToBS on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Maybe violence is too strong of a word, but I don't like a form of activism that "rubs blisters raw."  I am not totally off base here.  I think you guys are separating the organizational skills of Alinsky from what he did with with that organization.


by Mike Pridmore on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

No offense, but it isn't about what you like. Alinsky advocated non-violent resistance, similar to what Ghandi and MLK advocated, to label it violence is off base and while maybe not your intention, misleading. The right wing has been trying to label non-violent civil disobedience as violence for a long time.


by AllergicToBS on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:01:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (2.00 / 1)

I was trained in an Alinsky-ite organization, and am still organizing.

What the Obama campaign has brilliantly done is nestled parts of the Alinksy model into a fully integrated marketing effort.

But if individuals are not acting on their self-interest to take power for themselves, it is not in any real sense "organizing" or a movement, in the way those terms are employed by Alinsky. Integrating the enthusiasm of diverse demographics is marketing, not organizing.

Presidential campaigns relying on the grassroots efforts of volunteers is absolutely nothing new--the New Deal coalition, with its city machines and college campuses was powered almost exclusively by that, although the Machines obviously had patronage jobs as the incentive.

The Obama campaign, recognizing his popularity among activists--particularly the young and educated--wisely asked them to participate early on, to their credit.

The Alinsky model, as you know, is based on confrontational collective action. It is also a model meant to build lasting organizations. These organizations can act to further their goals by getting involved in elections.

What is to be seen, then, is whether AFTER the election, the Obama campaign will morph into something else, the way the Dean campaign did; and whether that thing will have an ideological aim.

I have the feeling that once the war in Iraq ends, the raison d'etre of these purely partisan, non-ideological organizations could decline.

The Clinton campaign is still running a pre-Dean, pre-06 campaign, and that is why they have been out-hustled. The Obama campaign did out-organize them, but we shouldn't carry the Alinsky analogy too far.


Fight the Counter-Revolution Build a movement.
by chicagolife on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:31:18 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

A very interesting point.  Yes, there is certainly a strong marketing influence with Obama's campaign, as one might predict with a national model.  And the confrontation element is evident only in Obama's message of opposition to special interests and the distinctions he has drawn between his campaign and 'the ways of Washington.'  But an election, especially a tightly contested one, is a confrontation of sorts as well.  I am not trying to present Obama as an activist leader of the disenfranchised, although he has mobilised many who would otherwise have not participated, but as a politician who has harnessed the notion of 'bottom-up' activism to a political campaign.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:50:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What Later? (none / 0)

Jesse Jackson's runs for the presidency have been criticized for not building a substantial organization. The Rainbow Coalition was touted as an on-going, progressive organization, but after each election, when Jackson lost, the organization pretty much disappeared. Part of this was that his supporters were discouraged and part of it was that there was not enough money to sustain much of an organization. But part of it was Jackson's charismatic approach which did not really empower his followers.

After the 2008 election, whether Obama wins or loses, will his campaign organization continue as a powerful entity? Or can it shift supporters into other general progressive organizations like MoveOn or issue groups like NOW, Peace Action, the Sierra Club, and Jobs with Justice? Will his supporters feel empowered to be on-going activists or will they be taken for granted, ignored, or left behind? Are his supporters just rock star groupies / members of a charismatic cult or are they empowered, progressive activists who will go on to work for change for the rest of their lives?

I don't know the answer to these questions, but I hope that whether he wins or loses, Obama can transform the energy of all his supporters into something tangible and useful beyond November 2008. If he can do that and wins the election, then he will be much more effective as a President. If he can do that and loses the election, then the energy he generates will still help move the country in a progressive direction. If he cannot, then his model may be no more effective than Jesse Jackson's was.


by RandomNonviolence on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:48:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Later? (2.00 / 1)

Perfectly stated question. That was exactly the final critique of the Jesse Jackson campaigns, that he wasn't able to build an organization out of it. Right now, you are absolutely correct that this things is mostly about Obama. It's obvious, however, that Obama has tapped into something that pre-existed him, and will certainly outlast him. He's charismatic and all, but without the Howard Dean movement, without the energy around the 2006 election, none of this would be possible. People were ready. I have faith that Obama will stay true to his rhetoric about building something bigger than a presidential campaign. He talks about it at length all of the time, and he definitely took some chances putting resources into grassroots organizing in places where it seemed unlikely to really pay off. As it turned out, it did, but it very easily could've been otherwise. He spent a lot of money opening offices in all over the country before a vote in Iowa was ever cast. He could've been knocked out right there and that would've been it for his campaign. But I think from the start, he was looking for something bigger and longer lasting than just a couple of quick victories and riding a media wave into the White House.


by dmc2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:26:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (2.00 / 1)

I honestly think you are making the same mistake here that you accuse Hillary Clinton of making.  You accuse her of dismissing the organizing efforts and grassroots (bottom up), but then you dismiss the importance of leadership and the influence folks can have within the system.

It is, IMO, the MLK, LBJ debate all over again.   But as this wonderful piece in the Washington Post makes clear - it took bottom up pressure and top down leadership to get those civil rights victories.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402079. html

And, let's not forget, a lot of changes in this country have been made by lawyers working within the system (think Thurgood Marshall) or even simply advocating for change (Gary Wills has said the writings of Hillary Clinton are some of the most influential on children and family law issues in the last 30 years).

It's great to be excited about grassroots organization and influence because it is wonderful and exciting.  But it is no more the end all, be all of strong liberal movement than one that does nothing but focuses on top-down politics.


by BDB on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:38:03 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

I agree that your objection is a reiteration of the MLK vs LBJ argument, and I'm not sure if anybody wants to start that food-fight all over again but I will make a couple of points, firstly the enacting of that legislation was the last legal step in a long struggle which, with a few significant exceptions, was initiated and prosecuted almost exclusively by citizen activists acting within the law but in direct opposition to the de facto institutions which were supported, or at least condoned, by 'top-down' leadership for more than a century.

Secondly, the 'top-down' approach you refer to has been the conventional model for our political system, and parties, for decades.  In what reality does that more empower or involve citizens in transparency of government, insight into decision making or participation in the debates about their collective interests beyond the limited role we have been accustomed to all this time?  Where does that diminish the excessive power of the media in shaping public opinion and special interest in influencing our policy and national direction?  

And what part of the strategy of the Obama campaign discussed in the diary doesn't seem like leadership to you?  


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:09:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Obama's campaign is just as "top down" as Hillary's is. Obama is a Daley machine lawyer and politician. His campaign started with great sources of finance on Wall Street and in other corporate and upper class sectors. The legions of small donors, unpaid volunteers and internet acolytes he has since enlisted to do his bidding have no say in the policies, strategies, and decisions of the campaign, as one would expect in an allegedly "bottom up" organization. Instead, these decisions are made by the candidate himself, his closest advisors, and his paid consultants, just as they are in any traditional politcal campaign.

Obama's brief spell as a "community organizer," which occured two decades ago and came in between his two stints at elite, Ivy League universities, is way overrated. Obama has no interest in empowering the masses of the South Side, nor his volunteers, donors, and internet supporters. He is simply using them as tools in his quest for high office. Despite all the loose talk about a "movement," the only thing that is being promoted is Obama's candidacy.


by freemansfarm on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:38:29 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Gimme a break.

"Daley machine".

Do you know who John Daley is?

I'll give you a hint... he co-chaired the campaign of one of Obama's opponents in the 2004 IL State Senate primary.  He also happens to have a relatively famous brother.  The other co-chair of that campaign?   Legendary Chicago/Cook County machinist Dan Hynes.

Christ.

I get so pissed at morons who obviously don't know what they're talking about who stride into threads and starting hurling bullshit like monkeys hurt their feces.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:47:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

errr.... mean to say John Stroger -- Dan Hynes' other co-chair.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (2.00 / 1)

It's well known fact that the law firm that Obama went to work for is "politically connected" in Chicago. While the Daley machine did endorse Hynes in the 2004 primary (which, by the way, was for the US Senate seat, not the "IL State Senate"), it backed Obama in the general election. In 2006, Mayor Daley endorsed Obama for President. In 2007, Obama endorsed Daley in his re-election bid for mayor.

The point is that Obama is not some "outsider" challenging the system. At least since the general election of 2004, he has been an ally of Mayor Richard Daley, the consummate machine politician.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the insults and vulgarities.


by freemansfarm on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Please...

What a joke.

Daley and the Chicago machine are hardly "best buddies" with Obama.  It's a simple matter of the Daley machine not being stupid.  

Daley got a big (for him) smack down in the 2007 aldermanic elections -- including several prominent Obama confidants and supporters from way back (my own newly minted alderman is one of them).

As for the insults -- only serving up what a hack deserves.  


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:02:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

The point remains that Obama and Daley have traded endorsements at least since 2004. Do you dispute that or don't you? Obama does not need to be "best buddies" with Daley to have him as a political ally.

And, again, I thank you for the insult.


by freemansfarm on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (2.00 / 1)

Daley is a Democrat from Chicago.

Obama is a Democrat from Chicago.

Given that there were no other Democrats from Chicago on 1)the 2004 IL Senate GE ballot and 2)the 2008 Democratic primary --- exactly who the hell did you think Daley would back?

Since you enjoy the insults so much -- here's another.

You're either an idiot or willfully blinded by your partisanship.   Either way - you've provided me with another reason to love seeing Obama as the nominee... knowing you'll be stewing in your own bile somewhere.


by zonk on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:38:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Daley backed Obama for president in 2006, when his candidacy did not seem so hot. Don't you think it was possible that Daley could have backed Hillary then, or, at the least, bided his time? But he didn't, he backed Obama two years out from the general election. And, a month later, Obama backed Daley in his bid to hold the mayoralty for longer than anyone in Chicago history, and more specifically, his father. Why did Obama back Daley, if he was so interested in delivering "smackdowns" to him? Obviously, and despite all of your fuming, they are politcal allies at some level.

And my larger point, which you have either forgotten or don't want to address, is that Obama's cozy relationship with the Daley machine, however checkered, however unlike those of "best buddies," DOES show that he is not an "outsider."

If Obama does win the nomination, I will not be "stewing in my own bile." I will happily vote for him in the general election and be hoping that he wins. You see, I do not have to believe in a "fairy tale" that Obama represents some "new kind of politics" to want him to succeed in the general election, if he is our nominee.

And, in any event, you are the one who seems to be choking on your own bile. I haven't insulted you once, but you have done it three times now, and you seem to revel in it.


by freemansfarm on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (2.00 / 1)

How idiotic. Obama hadn't even declared his intentions to run for President in 2006. A lot of establishment politicians have endorsed Obama. It says nothing about him other than that they don't want to get rolled over by the locomotive coming down the tracks. Look at Al Wynn in Maryland, who endorsed Obama and tried to ride his coattails to save his seat in Congress. Didn't work though.

You raise a legitimate point about the role of Obama's grassroots movement in the decision-making process. As an active participant in it over the last few months, I've actually found it to be quite open and participatory. Strategy at the local level is definitely determined by the local people. The campaign physically turns over significant and important parts of its infrastructure (i.e. voter lists, databases, volunteers), to grassroots activists all the way down to the precinct level.

There were avenues established through the Internet for people to weigh in on policy issues, form issue- and geographic-based groups, etc.

I'm not saying that Obama has a national town hall meeting of all of his supporters in order to compose his next speech, but this campaign has been very open, transparent and participatory, as these things go. I expect the same from his Presidency.


by dmc2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:38:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Precisely, he has used the community organizer as a badge of honor. Please read my post below.  He stood by his donor and put the community out to hang.  The power will go to the same people that it always goes to, it's just that the people will be lulled into thinking they belong in the table.  


by Iskandar on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:01:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

I think that the election process is one of the purest tests we have for determining who can be a good leader.  We can see directly whether a candidate has good judgment, either in terms of their own decision-making or in terms of whom they choose to hire.  Of course, Hitler was a good leader too as far as process went although evil as far as policy went.  So what I'm saying is that the election process is a legitimate test of a potential leader, although we have to assess policies as well.  We need someone who is competent as well as having the right values.


by jdien on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:43:53 PM EST

So Wonderful Hearing About This Finally. (2.00 / 1)

Almost ten years ago I started an internship with a small non-profit as part of my degree requirements.  The first day I was given a copy of Rules for Radicals by my 'supervisor', and told to read it.  Ten years, three more internships, 3 years in Americorps as a VISTA, and a few years doing community organization later, my copy is worn through and I'm giving out new copies to my interns.

I've heard about Obama's (and Clinton's) connections to Alinsky before, but even if I hadn't it's obvious.  The way he speaks, the words he uses, the way he's organized this campaign, the influence is obvious.  And there are a lot of other people who do community organization that pick up on it too.  

And you know what?  They are out there working hard for Obama and this campaign  because of it.  

Last month I drove a few towns over (I'm in a very rural state) to a local get together for Obama volunteers, and who was helping run the show?  My old supervisor- a little older, a little wiser... maybe a bit grayer.  Just as fired up as back then.

Obama's campaign is getting tons of it's organization from quite literally, generations of community organizers.  It's not the establishment, not the local political machine, but there's definitely a huge pre-built organization out there that's being tapped into by this campaign.


by Brillobreaks on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 07:50:52 PM EST

Re: So Wonderful Hearing About This Finally. (none / 0)

Barak Obama stands on the shoulders of lots of good organizers like yourself who have worked in the trenches for the past 40 years inspiring people, empowering them, and building grass-roots organizations. Obama has allowed all these empowered people and organizations to support his candidacy -- unlike most politicians who want to control everyone or exclude them if they can't be controlled. This is great.

However, as freemansfarm points out above, Obama still tightly controls his organization -- the Obama campaign is not democratic -- he and his close advisors make all the policy decisions and the rest of us have essentially no say in that. The campaign encourages people to work on the campaign in their own way, but they are not encouraged to build their own policy organizations. Of course, it would be difficult to actually have a democratic campaign organization -- the nature of election campaigns dictates a certain amount of top-down control, especially in the very hostile media environment we find ourselves in and facing a very powerful and reactionary elite.

I think it is wonderful that organizers have done such a good job over the last 40 years to build the basic foundation of a strong progressive movement -- teaching, inspiring, and empowering people to challenge oppression and exploitation. I am very excited that Obama has courted the progressive movement and that it has lifted him up and may make him President. I hope that Obama continues to support the progressive movement and allows it to flourish. If he does, then the movement can continue to support him and lift him up to everyone's mutual benefit. I fear that he is just using the movement for his own purposes and will drop us once he either wins or loses the presidency. I hope my fears are groundless.

But no matter what happens, the progressive movement still has a strong foundation and appears able to wield quite a lot of power. This is wonderful!!


by RandomNonviolence on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:32:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Wonderful Hearing About This Finally. (none / 0)

Yes, that is always a fear. Obama's not entirely unique in this respect. There are a lot of local politicians who started in grassroots organizations. Some of them manage to stay relatively true to the original vision, some do not.

The thing is, the correct approach is really not to have it all depend on the personal choices of the candidate. Like it or not, the grassroots will not be empowered until we empower ourselves. Obama's just one man; he can't magically transform the power structure in America all at once. It's clear what direction he's looking to go, and if the grassroots progressive movement can utilize his campaign to reach and organize more people, than that's great. We have to continue the movement, not him. We have to hold his feet to the fire. Maria Shriver of all people said it quite well in fact, "we are the ones we've been waiting for."

The campaign is relatively democratic. As I mentioned in another comment above, at least here in California, critical campaign infrastructure was completely in the hands of grassroots supporters down to the precinct level. There were very few rules laid down by the campaign in terms of message, strategy and tactics. Resources that could've gone into TV ads were instead dedicated to political organizing in places that haven't seen it from a Democratic presidential candidate in decades.

Of course, the candidate and his top advisors determine that broad outlines of his campaign themes, message, platforms and general strategy. How else could you possible do it and still win? But as far as could be possible, I've experienced the campaign a being very democratic.


by dmc2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:50:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

awesome diary (none / 0)

lots of good discussion in here. thanks


by highgrade on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:53:13 PM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

This is certainly the best discussion of the Obama campaign that I've seen in months of perusing MyDD. The original post lays out some of the most critically important, but little noticed, aspects of the Obama campaign, and the critiques that have followed in the comments have for the most part been fair and legitimate.

It does seem clear to me that Obama has brought a community organizing perspective to a national presidential campaign in a way that hasn't been done in my lifetime. If he succeeds, as it seems that he's destined to, it will bring about a profound change in the way we think about and do politics in America for decades to come. Even if his platform is basically in the mainstream of the Democratic Party, one must admit that his campaign strategy is a fairly radical break from the past. There were shades of it with Howard Dean, Jesse Jackson, MoveOn, but none so broad, far-reaching and ultimately successful. It's a new and exciting model of Democratic Party politics, whatever one may think about the personality of the candidate himself.

And the thing is, it has worked wonderfully. Weeks before the Iowa primary, I remember thinking to myself about the wisdom of opening field offices in Idaho and Alabama, when it wasn't yet determined whether or not his campaign was even going to make it out of Iowa and New Hampshire. But after Super Tuesday, Obama's strategy turned out to be just brilliant. The infrastructure was in place for Obama to just roll up a string of victories in all kinds of places that Clinton just had not chance of competing in. Now he's in the driver's seat and she's scrambling to save her campaign.


by dmc2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:58:51 AM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Well, only a big problem.  I don't buy the Alinsky roots of Obama.  As someone who has worked in the community for over 3 decades I found the following response by Senator Obama disturbing.  He protects his donor, the landlord, over the tenants, the low income African American community.  Read his response carefully.  There is absolutely no way that a true Saul Alinsky organizer would answer in this way.  This is why I do not trust his credentials to be the Progressive he claims to be.  

Question posed by Sun;
"Q: Many Rezmar government-financed housing deals have ended up in legal battles, including foreclosure. Several Rezmar buildings are now boarded up, and others are in need of major repairs. Taxpayers have lost millions of dollars on these deals. While Senator Obama has called Mr. Rezko a legal client, campaign contributor and a friend, there's ample evidence that Mr. Rezko was a slum landlord. Was the senator aware then that Mr. Rezko's projects were deeply mired in physical and financial problems? Does the senator think it is fair to characterize Mr. Rezko as a slum landlord?
Obama's answer:  
A: Housing partnerships in which low-income-housing tax credits are syndicated frequently struggle financially. The reasons for the problems such partnerships struggle are complex but frequently include urban crime, demographic changes and social factors outside the control of any developer or owner. Senator Obama was not otherwise aware of financial and physical problems attributable to misconduct by Mr. Rezko"

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/35378 6,CST-NWS-rezquestions23.article

The worse thing is that this is precisely what a NIMBY would say.  Someone who never wants to see affordable housing cause it houses low income minorities.  By the way Tax Credit projects only fail when the developer and the consulting team, including the attorneys, fail to structure the project correctly.  


by Iskandar on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:56:51 AM EST

Re: Process vs Policy: Organising (none / 0)

Very interesting diary! Thanks!


by Freedom on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:13:03 AM EST


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