MyDD :: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism

Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism

by andrewalker08, Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:44:14 PM EST

The fact is that Obama's plan today is the most shameless piece of potential plagiarism that I have ever seen. He basically took Clinton's words and Clinton's policies and called them his own. If I were a professor I'd give him an F and try to get him kicked out of school for something this terrible...If I were on the Clinton team, I'd be prepping memos.

-Kevin A. Hassett, Senior Fellow and Director of Economic Policy Studies, American Enterprise Institute

TO: Interested Parties

FROM: Neera Tanden, Policy Director, Hillary Clinton for President campaign

DATE: Wednesday, February 13, 2008

RE: Senator Obama's Economic Speech in Wisconsin

Those covering Senator Obama's economic speech in Wisconsin today could be forgiven if it felt like déjà vu all over again. Voters may ask themselves that if Senator Obama cannot produce his own ideas on the campaign trail, how will he solve new problems as President?

Senator Obama's only "new" ideas were ones that Senator Clinton proposed months ago:

His "new" proposal for a national infrastructure bank is one that Hillary proposed August 8, 2007. ["I'm proud to co-sponsor Senator Dodd and Senator Hagel's National Infrastructure Bank Act that we just introduced to establish a federally-backed independent bank that will evaluate and finance large infrastructure projects by subsidies, loan guarantees, and bonds backed by the full faith and credit of the United States." Rebuilding America speech, 8/8/07; S. 1926, 8/1/07]

His "new" proposal to create 5 million green collar jobs was proposed by Hillary on November 5, 2007. ["And three, to move us from a carbon-based economy to an efficient, green economy by unleashing a wave of private-sector innovation in clean energy and energy efficiency. I believe that will create at least five million good new jobs from clean energy over the next decade." Energy and Climate speech, 11/5/07]
- Google CEO Eric Schmidt praises Hillary's plan to create 5 million Green Collar jobs, 11/5/07: "By emphasizing the connection between promoting a green efficient economy and job creation, Senator Clinton's plan seeks to harness the power of technology and innovation to address one of our most pressing global challenges...The goal of producing 5 million new jobs can be achieved by private sector investment and bipartisan support for increased research and development in efficiency and clean energy."

In addition, while Senator Obama was busy resuscitating Hillary's policies, he failed to offer real solutions for the most pressing economic challenges that Americans families face. As Hillary explained this morning, "a plan that fails to provide universal health care, fails to address the housing crisis, and fails to immediately start creating good paying jobs in America again will not turn the economy around and provide the real relief that our people need. We need real results not more rhetoric."

Tags: Barack Obama (all tags)

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Give me a break (2.00 / 2)

Clinton didn't "invent" green-collar jobs or anything else, for that matter.

She's a very savvy policy wonk, but these are standard boiler plate Democratic ideas that have been around for years.

by mcdave on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:51:28 PM EST

Glad to see you support plagiarism... (2.00 / 7)

...Let me just go ahead and put that on the growing list of things Obama supporters condone:

Disenfranchising millions of voters from Florida & Michigan? Yep
Refusing to debate because "there have been too many debates?" Yep

Feel free to add to this list.

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ideas have no copywright (2.00 / 4)

but attribution is polite. This is why it takes him a while week to prepare debating her? Even though ideas can't have owners, they still start somewhere.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:15:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reality Check... (none / 0)

I know all this spinning is fun but let the grown ups talk now. The only similarity between the two plans is the phrase "Green Jobs"

(From their web pages...)
Hillary's Green Jobs Plan - kind of vague but seems to mostly rely on funding the weatherproofing of homes.

A plan to catalyze a thriving green building industry by investing in green collar jobs and helping to modernize and retrofit 20 million low-income homes to make them more energy efficient;

Obama's Green Jobs Plan - has an actual dollar figure and focuses on greening up businesses and worker training.

Millions of New Green Jobs -- Obama's energy plan will invest $150 billion over ten years to establish a green energy sector that will create millions of new jobs over the next two decades - jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced. He will also provide funding to help manufacturers convert to green technology and help workers learn the skills they need for these jobs.

Carry on...

by JoeCoaster on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reality Check... (2.00 / 3)

You call her plan vague? What is he talking about? He gives no specifics nce again.

by americanincanada on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glad to see you support plagiarism... (2.00 / 3)

Here's my contribution to your list, Andre:

Using right-wing attack ads in a deliberate and brazen attempt to undermine universal health care: HARRY AND LOUISE ADS.

That was a profoundly insulting action from Obama.

"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman

by Tennessean on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:24:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 6)

I looked up the National Infrastructure Bank Act to see the list of sponsors.

Sponsor: Sen Dodd, Christopher J. [CT] (introduced 8/1/2007)
COSPONSORS(5), BY DATE [order is left to right]:

Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] - 8/1/2007
Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham [NY] - 8/2/2007
Sen Mikulski, Barbara A. [MD] - 2/6/2008
Sen Dorgan, Byron L. [ND] - 2/6/2008
Sen Brown, Sherrod [OH] - 2/6/2008

Hillary co-sponsored it the day after it was introduced. Looks like someone is late to the party.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:55:44 PM EST

And Obama still isn't cosponsoring the bill? (2.00 / 6)

How klassy of him. Jeez, he's really becoming arrogant! He's acting like this "infrastructure bank" is his idea, but it really isn't. He's plagiarising, plain and simple.

Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!

by atdleft on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So it's all taken care of (none / 0)

then? Passed and signed into law? Good problem solved. Oh wait....

by JoeCoaster on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ah.... (2.00 / 8)

the ever important health care plans.

I ask each of you Obama supporters to PLEASE read before slamming Hillary Clinton's plan with right wing talking points.

Until recently, I could have sworn that most people on the left WANTED Universal Health Care. Taxes or payments.. it is all the same.. more people, the lower the cost. Control costs and stop the denials of claims and benefits, the lower the cost over all.

Here are a few links. Please read them.

American Health Choices Plan
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/he althcareplan/

A little more in depth:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/he althcareplan/summary.aspx

More in depth:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/he althcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.p df

Also, please make sure to check the links on the right side of this page:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/he althcareplan/

Want to see a little more info about Hillary Clintons plans and ideas on a wide range of issues?
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:56:27 PM EST

Re: ah.... (none / 0)

Please tell me where Senator Clinton stands on "Medicare portability". Is she in favor of allowing Medicare to cover procedures performed in foreign countries?

Is a $30,000 hip replacement performed by Johns Hopkins in Panama City, Panama, somehow not as good as a hip replacement for $120,000 at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, Maryland?

Specifically, does the Senator support the idea of Medicare covering it's recipients medical needs, at lower costs in foreign nations?

I have scoured her website, emailed her campaign staff and no where can I find an answer to a very simple cost saving idea?

Perhaps the Clinton Health care experts here have the answer I am looking for.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah.... (2.00 / 1)

That's an interesting idea. One difference would be that in one case, the money stays in our economy, and in the other case, the money ends up in Panama's economy. When our tax dollars are involved, I'm not sure it's such bad policy for our government to "buy American," even though things tend to be more expensive here.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But (2.00 / 4)

it would not be as exspensive if Hillary Clintons plan was put into place. So the actually cost difference may be much less.

Plus, if the UHC plan was for in country, then maybe it could include what I mentioned in my other comment. A small fee for a supplemental insurance that would extend your "plan" outside of the USA.

I also agee with the part about maybe trying to keep the tax dollars/premiums in the USA.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But (none / 0)

I could certainly deal with a supplemental insurance fee, but where is that even addressed? And where are cost control features address?

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:50:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah.... (none / 0)

Given that this is not really an "idea", but a question, about a real issue, it wold be nice to know where the senator stands.

When our tax dollars are involved, I'm not sure it's such bad policy for our government to "buy American,"

Where my health care is involved, I don't give a rat's ass about where the Dollars are spent, or some false "buy American" platitude. I care about the quality and affordability, of the medical care I need, and my choice as to who provides it.

If I have determined that a $30,000 hip replacement at Johns Hopkins in Panama City, Panama is better for me than a $120,000 hip replacement at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, does Senator Clinton think I should not have that choice or does she believe in Medicare portability?

So I ask again.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah.... (none / 0)

Can you explain to me why "affordability" is an issue for you if the procedure is covered by Medicare?

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:31:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah.... (none / 0)

Co-pays, HUGE friggin Co-pays. Medicare pays approximately 80% of "covered" expenses.

Then there are those things like that Doctor recommended extra day in the hospital for recovery, that's not covered at all, because Medicare thinks it knows best when you should be back up on your feet and out of the hospital.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I ask (2.00 / 1)

this... what is Obama's response on this? Is it written anywhere?

Once again, major parts of both of their plans is to bring cost under control. Part of the way Hillary Clinton is doing that is to have a larger user base... Universal Health Care.

Medicare and corporate insurance all play the game of trying to tell YOU what is best for YOU over your doctor and you.

You bring up a good point about the portability to other countries. The part about copays and cost of procedures should be addressed by the different cost controls and growing the base by making it truly universal.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I ask (none / 0)

what is Obama's response on this? Is it written anywhere?

If you find out, please tell me. I can't find out from either camp. I'll believe the cost lowering procedures when I see them. I've been alive far too long and seen far too many things to believe that corporate America and our "for profit" health care system will ever accept lower profits. The economics of scale, as far as "for profit" health care is concerned, is pure fantasy.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One of the problems I have (2.00 / 1)

with Obama's plan, is that he seems to be giving in to the belief that we can not get Universal Health Care and possibly not the cost controls either. Why else would he use right wing fear tactics about reaching into our wallet, etc?

Seems that he does not believe he will be able to get cost controls or true Universal Health Care because he either would not try or the "powers that be" in the health care and pharma world are telling him NO!

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 09:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One of the problems I have (none / 0)

Funny, but I believe the same about BOTH Clinton's and Obama's plans. It's all just so much rhetoric and no one has yet shown me that either plan is a plan for true affordable UHC in the US.

Unfortunately, neither has shown me that their approach is the better way to go either.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 09:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Part of (none / 0)

the problem is, that either of them will need We The People to help them fight this through congress and the pressure of the lobbyist.

That is one of the main reasons I wanted John Edwards! He spoke in plain terms about what needed to be done to accompish ANYTHING in DC.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 09:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Part of (2.00 / 1)

I totally agree about JRE, he was the one I really thought might get something done by sheer force of will.

I wish Clinton and Obama could channel him, but I'll settle for the one that promises him a seat on the Supreme Court, after a stint as Attorney General of course.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 10:03:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And can you explain to me why... (2.00 / 2)

...Buying American is a "false platitude."

I support buying American and keeping our dollars here at home instead of having them shipped overseas along with our jobs.

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And can you explain to me why... (none / 0)

Because buying medical procedures overseas that one cannot afford here is not the same as shipping jobs overseas NAFTA style.

Also Wasting billions of Dollars, filling the pocket books of corrupt insurance companies is not exactly what I would call sound fiscal policy.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So I'm just curious... (2.00 / 2)

...How many ordinary Americans that actually work for a living and don't spend their times commenting on blogs all day like you and me have the money to travel overseas to get that cheaper medical procedure?

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So I'm just curious... (none / 0)

Not very damn many that's for sure, but it has very little to do with the question I asked.

If Medicare portability was a law, I suspect at least a lot of seniors WOULD be able to travel overseas to get the medical care they cannot afford here because they wouldn't have to pay the huge co-pays required by US medical institutions.

Let's see... $$24,000 co-pay or $6,000 co-pay and $3,000 travel expenses.....????? Not too difficult a choice.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:40:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So what about Seniors who can't travel... (2.00 / 1)

...What about Seniors and others who need extended care such as a 3 or 4 week stay in a hospital? What about the language barriers?

I just spent three weeks dealing with Motorola and a bunch of Indians I couldn't understand about getting my cell phone repaired. What in the hell makes you think that anyone would want to go out of the country for medical attention just because it's cheaper?

And we haven't even begun to talk about the impact shipping someone overseas for medical care has on their families. What if my aunt, uncle, or mother is in a hospital in Bangkok? I ain't got no money to be flying all the way to Bangkok to check on my loved ones to make sure that the doctors are treating them correctly.

Why anyone would want to go thousands of miles for cheaper healthcare is beyond me. How about we focus on reducing the healthcare costs here in the United States instead?

Outsourcing health care...my God that's bogus.

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:57:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So what about Seniors who can't travel... (none / 0)

...What about Seniors and others who need extended care such as a 3 or 4 week stay in a hospital? What about the language barriers?

3-4 week hospital stays for non emergency procedures are just the type of senior who would do better overseas, saving themselves literally tens of thousands of Dollars, why should they not have that choice? You must not travel too much otherwise you'd realize just how many people in the world speak English, particularly in the health care field. I couldn't give you the exact figures, but a good portion of doctors world wide are trained in the US or at US run Medical centers overseas.

I just spent three weeks dealing with Motorola and a bunch of Indians I couldn't understand about getting my cell phone repaired. What in the hell makes you think that anyone would want to go out of the country for medical attention just because it's cheaper?

Somehow I don't think equating telephone conversations about a cell phone, with Indian service representatives is quite the same as talking face to face with a doctor,

You might also want to do a google search to educate yourself on just how many Americans go overseas each year for cheaper and dare I say, in many cases better medical care.

And we haven't even begun to talk about the impact shipping someone overseas for medical care has on their families. What if my aunt, uncle, or mother is in a hospital in Bangkok? I ain't got no money to be flying all the way to Bangkok to check on my loved ones to make sure that the doctors are treating them correctly.

No one is talking about "shipping" anyone anywhere. This is about CHOICE and AFFORDIBILITY. My choice.

Outsourcing health care...my God that's bogus.

The issue of Medicare portability is really simple and not controversial at all. I don't know how you got your shorts all twisted up, but if you don't understand the concept, maybe it's not the best thread for you to participate in. I will typically answer anyone who addressed a comment of mine, but really, you are just so far off base on this subject, that it's hard for me to take you seriously.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 09:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And can you explain to me why... (none / 0)

Seriously...you think that?

Then I suppose buying that SMART car in Germany, instead of a Hummer here, is also shipping jobs overseas NAFTA style.

And I thought I was doing something good for myself and the world by refusing to support the NAFTA whores at GM and by buying an economical, low energy usage vehicle. But I guess you're right, I should buy American regardless the consequences.

HUMMER here I come!

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 09:45:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: does Obama favor exporting our (none / 0)

What an asinine question.

Equating Medicare portability with exporting health care and other service jobs, is ridiculous and totally misses the point. But I guess you are such an uber patriot that you'd rather someone forgo healh care altogether than receive it free or at an affordable price overseas.

As far as what Mr. Obama supports you'd have to ask him, I have, and just as no one from the Clinton camp has answered me, neither dare I say has the Obama camp.

Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016

by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:34:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That part (2.00 / 2)

I am not sure of.

One thing that is interesting from the movie Sicko, is when Michael Moore's relatives in Canada bought (for a small fee) supplemental insurance when they came to the USA. I wondered why they would need to buy this. I figured it was to "extend" their Canadian insurance outside of Canada so they would be covered. I believe they did this because our system would not cover them if they got hurt or sick here.

I have heard from people that have traveled outside of the USA to some countries that provide True Universal Health Care, that they were covered by the system there when they got sick or injured. I believe in France and England they do this.

So what do you think about the first part and does anyone know why MM's relatives did this?

Has anyone elese heard of the last part? I believe Thom Hartmann has mentioned this about other UHC countries.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That part (none / 0)

I was traveling through Denmark in '94 and got REALLY SICK. I was laid up in bed (my hotel) for a week. When I went to the ER, a doctor saw me right away, diagnosed me, and wrote me prescriptions. When I left, I kind of hovered near the receptionist, waiting to sign something. She just waved me through the door. I had to fill my prescription at the pharmacy, but that was it. And there were no queues, either.

unapologetic Obama supporter

by dantes on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep, he does... (2.00 / 6)

And it really depresses me. Either Obama's using right-wing talking points to smear Hillary, or he's just "stealing" her proposals and calling them his own. This isn't how a Democrat should be running for President.

Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!

by atdleft on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:02:34 PM EST

he sure is (2.00 / 2)

and now he is vote picking and he claims Hillary voted for the bankruptcy bill, she didn't vote at all on that bill.

Now, believe me, I think Hillary has a lot of explaining to do to the middle class from 2000-2004 time frame but Obama ain't doing so hot and he can be just as pigeon holed. They both voted for S.2611, S.1348, which was loaded with labor arbitraging guest worker Visas, target high paying middle class career jobs...
they both voted for the Peru trade deal and Obama has a few others.

NoSlaves.com | The Economic Populist

by Robert Oak on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:30:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he sure is (2.00 / 3)

Thank you for always bringing sane arguments based on issues and facts to the discussion. I especially appreciated the info on Obama's economic advisors. It's no wonder he does better with the wealthier.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 09:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, he does... (none / 0)

He has been doing this for a while. Remember when the debates started in 2007, when journalists would ask him why his health plan was an imitation of her 1994 plan? He gave such a ridiculous answer. I can't believe he may actually be the nominee.

by findthesource on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, look at the bright side (2.00 / 2)

At least he is adding some policy content to his speaches even if the positions are stolen (without proper credit) from other candidates.

by lombard on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM EST

he's ALWAYS copying the smart girl's homework... (2.00 / 6)

...ever since he got that C- for his health plan. his katrina relief plan was also stolen.

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id= 5784

now he's turned in a suspiciously similar paper on economic policy. well, he may be the captain of the football team, but he's not the sharpest tack in the box.

by campskunk on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:15:03 PM EST

I hated folks like that in high school... (2.00 / 4)

...Always copying off the smart people's homework; not contributing to the work on a group project; and so forth.

When I was in high school, I got a little sweet revenge on folks like that. One time, on a test, they were trying to cheat off me and I gave them the wrong answers. About five folks failed that test.

It was really sweet.

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:21:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hated folks like that in high school... (2.00 / 2)

Once upon a time in high school, half our class got mistakenly left alone to take the chemistry final with no proctor. Suddenly everyone wanted to know my answers.

There was this one girl I had a crush on and so I just kept giving her one answer after another. When I saw her a couple weeks later she was like, "Steve, you're so awesome! I got a C+ on that chem final and I never could have done it without you!!"

I still haven't figured out how you get a C+ when someone gives you all the answers. I guess chemistry really wasn't her thing.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mr Details (none / 0)

I waiting for you to point out that a co-sponsor does not come up with the idea or write the law. They just agree to support it. Hillary has not more ownership of the Infrastructural Law idea then Obama.

It's actually dishonest for her to claim she "proposed it" to begin with.

Or does details only matter if they can be used against Obama.

Carry on the distortion fest.... it's really fun to watch.

by JoeCoaster on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mr Details (2.00 / 1)

I would not expect a blind partisan like you to grasp the concept if I spent an hour spelling it out for you.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hated folks like that in high school... (none / 0)

LOL! Only in high school eh?

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 09:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hated folks like that in high school... (none / 0)

She was a nice girl. I think she wound up teaching school. :)

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 10:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 5)

Hummm, maybe that is why he doesn't want to debate. It's hard to talk about policy issues when you are just memorizing the person's policy who is sitting right beside you. Probably feels a little funny in the tummy too.

by darlamc on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:26:55 PM EST

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (none / 0)

Yeah, plus the stuff he comes up with off the cuff in debates! Wow.

by newhorizon on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, I couldn't believe it when I saw that he'd claimed the infrastructure bank as his. He's also now talking about eliminating taxes and having a one page tax form just like Rudi.

I'm all for a balanced budget and Clinton like surpluses...but, I'm really tired of the ideaology that says any time there's a problem let's give a tax break. And, it is highly un-democratic.

Really, when you look at Obama's ideas, the ones he's talking about now, it looks as though the GOP is having more influence over his candidacy than anyone. Refusing mandates was the beginning, proposing a stimulus package that was only about giving rebates and not about social security or unemployment was the next rung down. Eliminating taxes the one after that.

by seattlegonz on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:28:53 PM EST

Rice as VP? (2.00 / 1)

Beware: If Rice is VP for McCain, the black votes will be divided and the women who feel slighted by arrogant Obama, will vote for her.

McCain can hit Obama during debates except when it is economic policies where both are weak.

by Sandeep on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:33:01 PM EST

Re: Rice as VP? (none / 0)

I think the odds of splitting the black vote by using this tactic are... slim.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wasn't it Edwards who led the way on these? (2.00 / 1)

Clinton plagiarized from Edwards just as much as Obama.

John McCain

by MILiberal on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:36:26 PM EST

Re: Wasn't it Edwards who led the way on these? (none / 0)

Exactly, look at Clinton's healthcare pan then look at Edward's, then realize Edward's came out before hers and she copied it word for word.

Oh, and considering that this was exactly Bill Clinton's strategy in 1992 (copy the idea's of Rivals and pass them off as his own); something he was far more blatant about (basically lifting Tsongas platform in total) its a bit rich for Clintonistas to suddenly decry this as dirty politics.

by Socraticsilence on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't get it? (none / 0)

Please help me understand.

The charge is that Senator Obama is supporting policies that Senator Clinton proposed some time ago. You sound like you are a Clinton supporter so can I assume you think those policies are a good thing?

So the charge is that he supports a good thing?

I don't think plagiarism works in politics in quite the same way as it does in academia or publishing. It's called adopting good ideas.

"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC

by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:42:29 PM EST

No, it's called having no ideas... (2.00 / 1)

...Of your own except for "hope" and "will" but hope and will don't pay the bills.

So, in the absence of your own ideas, you steal someone else's.

For example, here in Georgia, our Republican Governor immediately dismissed the 2006 Democratic gubernatorial nominee's plan to eliminate the state's portion of the property tax as foolish and silly. Then this year, our Republican Governor included the Democrat's plan in his state of the state address and claimed it as his own.

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:47:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, it's called having no ideas... (none / 0)

One can make the case there is a lot of hopeful projection on Senator Obama's part in place of specific original policy ideas. I just think you are being a little ridiculous. First, he obviously has proposed a range of policies or policy initiatives, just visit his website. It's thing to believe they are bad policies but it is another to deny they exist. Be reasonable.

Second, then you use three - three - examples of his cribbing the policy wonk language Clinton authored, ideas you support presumably support, and which likely reflect the rough consensus among some subset of the policy wonk community, these three cases lead you to the hyperbole that he has no original ideas.

Given that he obviously does, many in fact, those few cases just look like adopting good ideas among the many he espouses.

"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC

by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trond, apparently you have a literacy problem... (2.00 / 1)

...This diary does not contain my words.

This diary contains the words of a memo from the Clinton campaign, unedited, I might add.

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trond, apparently you have a literacy problem. (none / 0)

...and which you are just being kind in passing along as a disinterested observer.

I am mocking the faux seriousness. Them for writing it, you for posting it.

"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC

by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't get it? (2.00 / 1)

The charge is opportunism. One way to figure out if a politician is just pandering is to look at whether they supported something back before anyone was paying attention, or if they just happened to adopt a convenient position in the heat of a campaign.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:54:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Opportunism (2.00 / 1)

Are you talking about Hillary's war vote?

by Benstrader on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 04:35:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 2)

How low can he go? I wish to see Clinton go after him at this soon.

by JoeySky18 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:45:00 PM EST

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 1)

Why is he copying off of Hillary anyway? I thought the Republicans were the party of ideas.

Okay, that's not nice of me.

by OrangeFur on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:52:40 PM EST

Grueben, you must have been that guy... (none / 0)

...Who was always willing to cut a few corners in order to achieve the desired result.

by andrewalker08 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:55:43 PM EST

Some Edwards supporters accuse Clinton of (2.00 / 2)

"plagiarism".

I reserve the right to accuse all candidates of "plagiarism" of things said around the blogosphere over and over. Or for that matter of taking pages out of Gore's viewpoints and green platform. And even of phrases and ideas in what I, a mere mortal, have written from time to time. Big f'n deal.

In politics, no one holds a patent on ideas.

What needs to be done is to judge if a candidate's rhetoric matches w/ their record, and if not, how they explain/reconcile any shifts. Obama is consistent to a large degree.

Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers

by NeuvoLiberal on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:10:00 PM EST

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 0)

"I hated folks like that in high school...

...Always copying off the smart people's homework; not contributing to the work on a group project; and so forth."

Nice summary of the whole Clinton v. Obama campaign. Smartest girl in the class can't believe that the cute, popular guy is actually going to beat her for Class President. You guys should really back away from the computer screen and check out the movie, Election. It's all there.

by dmc2 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:12:37 PM EST

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (none / 0)

Ha! Dmc2, you can now write a great book for the chattering classes on the demographic group sure to decide the election... 'Tammy Metzler moms'.

by Benstrader on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 04:42:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (none / 0)

MyDD: The Clinton Campaign's one-stop oppo dump.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2 008/02/13/clinton_mccain/index.html

by beanbagz on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:21:52 PM EST

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (none / 0)

Andrew care to comment on how Clinton copied Obama's position on torture, once it became clear that her original stance (the Dubya policy, to the right of Mccain) was toxic to primary voters-- why does she have to copy Obama on issues of Morality? Is it because HRC has no moral compass?

by Socraticsilence on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:23:59 PM EST

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 2)

Hillary and Barack are our Dem candidates- but let's be clear, we know exactly how the Republicans are going to treat her. Policy issues are just one of Barack's hang ups. The way he deals with them is another hang up.

A group of citizens walk into Senator Barack's office.
They say: We believe the Excelon Nuclear plant is leaking tritium into our drinking water.
Barack says: How dare they! Let's have a meeting. I am going to write a bill that supports mandatory reporting of leaks at the lowest of levels.
Citizens say: YEAH!
Barack says: Here's my bill Excelon.
Excelon says: Excuse me Senator, could we speak to you for a moment in private?
Barack says: I am a uniter, of course you can.
DOORS CLOSE
Barack says: Hey, I just got myself two new fundraisers and 214 new donors from Excelon. Thank you citizens for introducing me.
www.politicalamnesia.blogspot.com

by darlamc on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:48:19 PM EST

Don't let the facts get in your way (none / 0)

Obama gave an energy speech a month before Clinton in which he proposed an investment in green technologies to great millions of new jobs.

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/08/re marks_of_senator_barack_obam_28.php

Senator Obama also has a plan for universal access to healthcare (though he would not force people to buy it and garnish their wages if they chose not to)

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/health care/

He also has a plan to deal with home foreclosures

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/MortgageF actSheet.pdf

And another to jump start the economy

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/econom y/

by WellstoneDem on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 10:18:30 PM EST

Let's play this game, shall we? (2.00 / 1)

Obama gave an energy speech a month before Clinton in which he proposed an investment in green technologies to great millions of new jobs.

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/08/re marks_of_senator_barack_obam_28.php

Clinton gave a speech on green-collar jobs to America's mayors in June of 2007. I'm happy to know that Obama was impressed by her proposal.

Senator Obama also has a plan for universal access to healthcare (though he would not force people to buy it and garnish their wages if they chose not to)

Let's try a thought experiment. An Obama Administration opens up a government health care plan which is administered with tax dollars (ours) to cover people who opt to buy. Meanwhile, tax dollars (ours) will go to improvements in hospital infrastructure [so far the two plans are similar]. But for any person reading the following on his website:

Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.

he or she who opts not to buy can at any time go and buy government insurance (it won't be private because Obama will fail to stop private companies from cherry-picking without a mandate). Every missed physical and every missed check-up adds up to a sudden expensive procedure down the line. This person will simply sign up for insurance at the last minute and get guaranteed coverage for their preventable, expensive care. Tax dollars (ours) go to pay for it. The problem of a public good is two-fold: moral hazard and free riders. There is little incentive to pay for something one can have for free (or that the majority of the cost goes to everyone else); people have less incentive to step up than they would if there were shared responsibility. You penalize the responsible for the misdeeds of the irresponsible.

And here's the kicker: Obama will not force you to cover yourself in the first place even with tax-credits, but he will force you to pay for "back premiums" when you go to get care because you're "gaming the system."

So what's smarter? Universal coverage, or a hemorrhaging health care system doomed to fail? I'll hand it to you, Obama proposed his little gem first-- I'd say Clinton's plan was worth the wait (and at least the piece of paper it was written on).

While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama

by bowiegeek on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:39:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's play this game, shall we? (none / 0)

Because is not like these ideas haven't been around forever. Its not like every Democratic candidate was talking about the equivalent of the Apollo program for green energy back in 2004...or wait, they were...

Your whole premise is based on the idea that people don't want health care. You think that if health care is affordable all sorts of people are just going to wander around without it, waiting until they're terminally ill so they can really scam the system? You don't think people will choose to be covered once they can afford it so they can stay healthy and prevent major problems? Im pretty sure good health is a HUGE incentive for people to get covered as soon as they can afford it.

by WellstoneDem on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:50:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's play this game, shall we? (none / 0)

No, the premise is based on the idea that people don't want to pay for something that everyone else is guaranteed to pay for anyway. It is human behavior. Not everyone is as virtuous as you'd like him to be. The gap between government's responsibility (paid by our tax dollars) and the citizens' responsibility will bleed the system dry.

While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama

by bowiegeek on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 05:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 2)

Yay! You and Susanhu (hers on DK) wrote almost the same exact diary! It's like you're both having a 2-for-1 sale on crap.

It's unfortunate that he didn't really plagiarize:

Obama spokesman Bill Burton: "If the Clinton campaign ever bothered to check their facts before attacking, they'd know that Barack Obama's comprehensive energy plan to create millions of new jobs was introduced a month before Senator Clinton's, and that his infrastructure plan invests billions more than hers does to rebuild our roads, bridges, and schools. But the real problem in Washington is not a lack of good ideas, it's the failure to come together and solve our problems because politicians are too busy scoring cheap political points just like this one."

Linkage.

Good try, though.

by theblaz on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 10:27:18 PM EST

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (2.00 / 1)

Actually, I had noticed this quite a while ago because I know Hillary's policy so well and several times he would repeat what she just said in a previous speech very nearly word for word. That's not a big deal really. They are politicians and he's going to co opt things as a new senator that he thinks are good and it's a little bit of a nod to her .

But last night when he threw in the comment about standardized testing I had to laugh. She has been for getting rid of them for a long time as are many teachers. They penalize minority kids, the poor, immigrants, and anyone disadvantaged in any way. The only thing they really show is the size of the houses near the schools with any consistency. The worst thing they do is cause the drop out rates to soar when you add in the NCLB recipe along with them. Hillary Clinton has worked with teachers and understands why these tests aren't good but, before last night, Obama planned on keeping them. I was lead to read his stance on this by a teacher who said she wasn't going to support him because he didn't understand edcuation as well as she does because she has had more direct experience with teachers and working programs for schools for years now.

Obama flipped and added in almost exactly what she said. That he would get rid of the tests. I bet he can't go into depth about why because he co opted her stance and it was one of the biggest cheers of the night for both of them. However, it is beginning to make Mr. Obama seem rather hollow.

There is the fact that even on his health care plan which will cost more and cover fewer people he copied her except for a few things. He also misquoted her on this. She did not say she would garnish wages without having that geared to income and she did not say that was a given. What she stressed was aggressively lowering premiums. Allowing people to keep the plan they are on if they are happy with it and giving subsidy's to those who are not able to afford it even at geared to income. It was quite a mis representation of what she proposed. And he does that quite a bit.

I agree that he seems to take from others and present as his own that which someone else worked very hard and long on. I guess their experience was appreciated after all.

by RAnne1 on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 12:27:54 AM EST

That is incorrect (2.00 / 1)

Senator Obama has always opposed education focused on test results. He has consistently called for high standards and teacher quality but has repeatedly said that tests are not the best metric for these things.

This is from a speech in November, 2007

"And by the way - don't tell us that the only way to teach a child is to spend most of the year preparing him to fill in a few bubbles on a standardized test. Don't tell us that these tests have to come at the expense of music, or art, or phys. ed., or science. These tests shouldn't come at the expense of a well-rounded education - they should help complete that well-rounded education. The teachers I've met didn't devote their lives to testing, they devoted them to teaching, and teaching our children is what they should be allowed to do."

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/11/20/re marks_of_senator_barack_obam_34.php

I have 2 teachers in my family and they both supported Barack Obama.

Just a reminder. Senator Clinton voted for "No Child Left Behind"

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro ll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?con gress=107&session=1&vote=00371

by WellstoneDem on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:04:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (none / 0)

But, after all is said and done, reading through the comments, it's easy to see that NO FACTS WILL BE ALLOWED into the brains of Obama Cult Followers.

Hard-hitting diary, Andre and thanks!

"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman

by Tennessean on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:27:24 AM EST

suckers (none / 0)

Only suckers would rely on an attack memo from a political campaign for their FACTS.

by JoeCoaster on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:56:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Professor Obama's Political Plagiarism (none / 0)

Damn I miss John Edwards and Dennis K.

"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie

by nogo war on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 11:05:20 AM EST

Plagiarism (none / 0)

The man is a huckster and a thieving plagiarist.
How about the watered down Malcolm X excerpts?

by durendal on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 06:58:29 AM EST