Politico Presidential Forum Thread

If you're in the DC metropolitan area, you can watch Hillary Clinton on ABC7 and News Channel 8 from 7-730pm EST, then Barack Obama from 730 to 8pm. Otherwise watch it streaming live on Politico.com.

Update [2008-2-11 19:12:47 by Todd Beeton]:OK, so I guess it's not on Politico. Sorry. Anyone watching?

Update [2008-2-11 19:23:44 by Todd Beeton]:Sorry, I was planning to watch it online, I should be in front of a TV in a few minutes. dailykos has a hilariously anti-Hillary tilted liveblog of it. I'm sure they'll be as skeptical of Obama's half, right?

Update [2008-2-11 19:27:44 by Todd Beeton]:Also available: "The program will also be simulcast nationwide on XM Satellite Radio's presidential election channel POTUS '08, which airs on XM channel 130."

Update [2008-2-11 19:27:44 by Todd Beeton]:I'm told the forum will be up on Politico soon.

Update [2008-2-11 20:6:18 by Todd Beeton]:Mike Allen put up his recap of Hillary's half of the "Chesapeake Challenge." This stands out:

During the half-hour conversation, she said that when she hears Obama’s oratory about a more civil politics, she wonder what fights he would avoid. “You never hear the specifics,” Clinton said. “It’s all this kind of abstract, general talk about how we all need to get along. I want to get along, and I have gotten along, in the Senate. I will work with Republicans to find common cause whenever I can. But I will also stand my ground because there are fights worth having.”

Nice. Also, she said in the interview that Michigan and Florida's delegates should count and makes a decent case for Michigan's delegates in particular:

“In Michigan, all of us had a chance to leave our names on the ballot – I chose to do so,” she continued. “My opponents ran a very vigorous campaign to get people to vote ‘uncontested.’ There was a campaign going on – it was a campaign against me, and I still won a majority. “I think that the Democratic Party has to be looking very realistically about what it is we’re trying to achieve here. We need to win in November. … I think that both in Michigan and in Florida, the Democratic Party should really give these people who came out and voted – they weren’t involved in the rulemaking. Give them a chance.”
Update [2008-2-11 20:10:15 by Todd Beeton]:I caught some of Barack's half of the interview. The interviewers talked about John McCain bucking his party like the good little maverick that he is and asked how he bucks his own party. He said the Democratic Party is a big tent and on certain issues, we shouldn't all feel we need to get in line. For example, he thinks public schools should experiment with charter schools, and on trade, he'd like to "unify the progressive wing and the more centrist wing." He said he'd like to develop a policy that is pro-American and pro-worker but also pro-business and pro-growth without the ideological divisions that we've been caught up in for so many years."

Update [2008-2-11 20:16:12 by Todd Beeton]:Video of Barack Obama's interview is HERE and the full text of the interview is HERE.



Display:


Me neither... (2.00 / 1)


by andrewalker08 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:09:36 PM EST

Re: Me neither... (2.00 / 1)

ditto


by Scan on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:10:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

False Advertisement From Politico!!! (2.00 / 1)

Politico editor-in-chief John F. Harris and ABC 7 News anchor Leon Harris are interviewing Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama on Monday -- one day before the Chesapeake primaries in Maryland, Virginia and Washington, D.C. -- and you can submit questions for us to ask the Democratic presidential hopefuls.

The discussions will air live at 7 p.m. Monday on ABC 7 News and News Channel 8 and will be streamed on Politico.com

They're a fraaaaaauuuuuuud!!!

(I'm being facetious)


by andrewalker08 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:16:41 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 1)

I'm just chuckling at how I used to consider Daily Kos a beacon of the reality-based community.  


by atomic garden on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:30:44 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

I'm assuming that if they think like you, it's "reality-based" right?

What's amazing about this race is how it's tearing apart the netRoots. Really, it's worth noting and talking about.


!
by alex100 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:45:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

not at all, I appreciate debate and valid criticism..  and it is incredible what this primary is doing to the netroots.  There is an enormous amount of issues that should be discussed regarding both candidates, unfortunately DK has become pathetically biased.  No worries,  My DD is at least evenly mixed.  


by atomic garden on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 0)

well, i was an edwards voter (I back obama now) and I have to tell you. There's been few level headed people on all sides of the debate.

it's politics. if you aren't passionate (sometimes that means a lack of rationale thinking), there's a problem. It's one reason why Obama is doing so well these days IMO. I always wondered when those huge rallies with all that energy would pay off for him...


!
by alex100 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:57:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Do you sincerely believe MYDD is evenly mixed? The people that comment offer some variety but the front page posters seem to be very pro-Hillary to me. (I am supporting Obama) There is a vast polarization on both of these blogs and several others that I read. It's unfortunate because one or the other of these candidates will get the democratic nomination and will need a united party to take on McCain.  People are getting so far down in the weeds that they are missing the big picture. And the viciousness of some of it, on both sides, is very disheartening.


by godemsin08 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:12:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

No, if they're about electing PROGRESSIVES, they're reality based.  If they're about electing one-particular pseudo-progressive, they're the equivalent of Faux News.

DailyKOS == FAUX NEWS


by Sensible on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:03:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 0)

which is no different then the pro-hillary bent you see here.

i'm not gonna go off about how mydd is equal to Fox News. it's just that stupid.

openleft has actually done a decent job at staying above the hyper partisanship we've seen on either mydd or dailykos.


!
by alex100 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:14:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

You folks at MyDD really, really love Hilary huh?

Geez.


by RussTC3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:32:01 PM EST

Not all of us do... (none / 0)

But yes, a good many of us here do love Hillary and her vision of real change for real people that will put this nation back on the right track. And unlike Daily Kos, we don't get muzzled here for saying it out loud. Got a problem with that? ;-)


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all of us do... (2.00 / 1)

Go DLC!

Get muzzled at DKos? How so?


by illlaw1 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all of us do... (2.00 / 1)

I really do not understand why you support Obama if you are so "anti" DLC.

Obama's: "Find common ground" is much more "third way" than anything Clinton has offered in this campaign.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all of us do... (none / 0)

No, the DLC way is caving to every republican demand... the Obama way is that we'll work with you if you actually work with us, and if you don't... well, we'll beat you down until you will.

Big difference...


by lordmikethegreat on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:09:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all of us do... (none / 0)

oh please enlighten me... what are the republicans going to agree with the Democrats on?

Immigration?
Healthcare?
Iraq?
Taxes?
SS?
NCLB?
SCOTUS Nominees?
Global Warming?


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:23:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not necessarily... (none / 0)

The Hegalian in me would point out (Seymour Glass correctly calls me a nerd, he is probably right).  The synthesis is not in the middle of the thesis and the antithesis.... Marx is to the left of both the enlightenment and the romantic-conservative reaction, but is an synthesis of both.... The hope is Obama is in the same way (no he is not a marxist)... the DLC path is splitting the middle which is appealing to no one.


by labor nrrd on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not necessarily... (2.00 / 1)

well i guess you can read it anyway you want.

I see more triangulation out of Obama than I do from Hillary this campaign.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 1)

Is it up at Politico yet or not? Are they going to wait until after Hillary is done?


by americanincanada on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:37:33 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Not yet. Their website says it'll be up soon though--I would guess after Obama is done.


by Tove on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I doubt it... (none / 0)

I just turned on my local ABC affiliate (Greater Los Angeles area), and I'm not getting it.


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:37:59 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

It did start on time and there are live blogs at Taylor Marsh and elsewhere. Funny Politico doesn't have it.


by americanincanada on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:42:35 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

full text of Obama's interview up on politico...

Clintons?
There's some commentary on her attacking Obama.

???????????


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:00:42 PM EST

Dkos diary (none / 0)

is heavy against Clinton. The Obama questions and answers, at least how they are being reported at Dkos, are softball.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:01:31 PM EST

Re: Dkos diary (none / 0)

I can't wait until this is all over to watch the readership at KOS go down the tankers.


by Sensible on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like Dkos (none / 0)

but... rabid supporters of all sides (even my fav Edwards supporters) can really hijack an entire blog.

I think I would like to see the rec'd button for diaries and comments removed from all sites except for admins. Dkos was supposed to be a place for all Democrats but since Kos came out for Obama the place has become childish .. even by kos himself.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dkos diary (none / 0)

and why do you want a liberal blog to "go down the tankers"? Because its members are rapid fans of Obama?

Seems kind of self defeating when the bigger picture is looked at.


!
by alex100 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Super Tuesday for example, a big state like California - where we can't cover the waterfront, Sen. Clinton ends up winning because people are much more familiar with her.

From Obama


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:01:47 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

It really isn't a decent case. Obama and Edwards and the others were simply following DNC rules. You want to punish them for following the rules?


by Progressive America on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:08:26 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

The DNC rule requiring Obama and Edwards to take their names off the ballot exists only in your mind.

The Iowa Independent reported that the Obama campaign tried to persuade all the other campaigns to pull out of Michigan as a way of de-legitimizing Clinton's inevitable victory.  To my knowledge, that reporting has never been refuted.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

I don't mind the fact that this blog is pro-Clinton, especially considering that just about every other blog I frequent sides w/ Obama.  And for the most part, I try not to engage in some of the petty arguments we see here between the more ardent supporters of the respective candidates.

However, the position of Clinton supporters on the "Michigan" issue really does make my blood boil.

This was a quote from Clinton on October 11, 2007 - after it was revealed that she would not be removing her name from the Michigan ballot after Obama, Edwards, and Richardson did so:

>>"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," Clinton said Thursday during an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio's call-in program, The Exchange.<<
Source: USA TODAY - http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/el ection2008/2007-10-11-clinton-mich_N.htm

That's straight from her mouth, folks.  She doesn't say: "Perhaps we should reconsider Michigan's delegates at a later date", or "Let's rethink the punishment so as not to disenfranchise Michigan's voters", or anything else even closely resembling a statement indicating that Michigan's votes should or will count.

"IT'S CLEAR THIS ELECTION THEY'RE HAVING IS NOT GOING TO COUNT FOR ANYTHING."

There are party rules restricting primary dates for a VERY good reason - we can't have states setting their primaries earlier and earlier so as to gain more "influence" on the nomination process.  If we allow that, we'll end up with primaries in July of the year before the election - OR earlier!!

The states were punished, and all candidates, including Senator Clinton, expressed a clear understanding and acknowledgment of what that punishment entailed.  For her to now ask that the rules be changed mid-season is completely indefensible, and frankly, reflects poorly on her character.


by goodnbad on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:29:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Yes, and Bill Richardson told an audience in Iowa that their first-in-the nation status came from God.  People pander to the early states, it's what they do.  I doubt you can find me a single Michigander who didn't show up to vote because of what Hillary told a New Hampshire radio show three months previously.

I agree that states need to stick to the schedule.  Did you know that Michigan only moved up after New Hampshire violated the schedule and the DNC made it clear nothing would be done about it?  They decided, and fairly so in my opinion, that the stranglehold of the early states would never be broken if no one ever stands up to New Hampshire.

The reality is that the Michigan Democratic Party will be taking its case to the convention in Denver, regardless of what Clinton or Obama might say about it.  And I suspect there are a lot of delegates from a lot of states who are going to understand Michigan's position because they, too, are sick of New Hampshire running roughshod over the entire process.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Wrong.  Check your facts.   Michigan was the first to jump.  New Hampshire moved its primary as a reaction to Michigan's action.  Michigan moved in August - New Hampshire in November.

Sources:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/el ection2008/2007-08-22-michigan-primary_N .htm

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 007/08/17/321548.aspx

Be intellectually honest, were it not for Clinton's vocal opinion on the matter, there is no chance that Michigan or Florida's delegates would be allowed to have such a significant impact on the eventual nomination, except in perhaps a token, or conciliatory manner.  Clinton is the most powerful and visible political force pressing the issue - despite the undeniable fact that she clearly understood and ostensibly agreed to the terms of the punishment.


by goodnbad on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

As stated in my link, New Hampshire announced their intention to jump the queue in a public ceremony on August 9.

I think you underestimate the degree to which the Michigan Democratic Party really does have a stake in this quite apart from Hillary's partisan interest.  Senator Levin, in particular, has been waging a crusade against New Hampshire's domination of the process for a long time.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

You continue to downplay Clinton and her supporter's lead role on this divisive issue.  And you seek to deflect the impact that her wavering, opportunistic position on the issue has on the perception of her character.  One could almost use the adjective "Rovian" to describe her manipulation of the situation.

My comments don't seek to critique Michigan Democrats for trying to get their delegates seated.  Do I critique them for violating party rules?  Sure.  But they're position on this issue has been clear from the very start.  I know what's at stake for them.  Anybody does. But then again, they haven't changed their position mid-stream.  They were going to fight to have their delegates counted no matter what, from the very beginning.  Fine.  Have at it, Sen. Levin.

Clinton's position on the issue, on the other has no such moral or ethical foundation.  She had previously stated her clear understanding and implied acceptance of the fact that Michigan's vote would not "count for anything", and then CHANGED her position when she saw an opportunity to benefit after the fact.  THAT is what irks me.


by goodnbad on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

I wonder if Clinton considers Obama's bill to deal with the suicide problem among Veterans as abstract, general talk about how we all need to get along.


by Piuma on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:09:51 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

I agree- Hillary's is a rather indecent proposal. Go against agreed party rules to win.


by CB Todd on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:14:44 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 1)

do u know anything about party rules?


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've read them. (none / 0)

If she decides to win in this way it will split the party and all the hard work that we have all put in to bring it back from the dead will have been wasted. And for what? So Hillary could be nominated for President?

In my opinion, if she can't win FAIRLY then she shouldn't win at all.

She had agreed to the rules beforehand and everyone knew the rules. Changing them now would be very divisive. But, if you want to see Democrats rioting in the streets of Denver this August I guess this would be the best course of action.


"Make it stop! Please! Make it stop!"
by OsoDelMar on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:18:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillariously anti Hillary? (none / 0)

"OPEN THREAD: LIVE Q&A with OBAMA and CLINTON in DC"

Was it changed?


by MNPundit on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:21:43 PM EST

Re: Hillariously anti Hillary? (none / 0)

Tilted, not titled.


by Shawn on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks. N/T (none / 0)


by MNPundit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:16:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 1)

Did you say that Obama wants to experiment with Charter Schools?

That is Pure Republican Code!

What is he doing???


by lectric lady on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:22:18 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Are charter schools the same as vouchers?  I thought charter schools were okay.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:38:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Why is the Obama interview up and not the Clinton one?


by americanincanada on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:28:40 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

obama's was taped earlier


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

The interview, conducted by ABC 7's Leon Harris and Politico Editor-in-Chief John F. Harris, was taped Sunday afternoon in the choir room of T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Va., ahead of Tuesday's "Chesapeake primaries" in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:34:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fuck that! (2.00 / 1)

Charter schools are just private schools!  Religious groups are the biggest beliers in "charter schools".

I do NOT trust Obama to not lean more to the corporate right. People may accuse Hillary of that and I will partially agree but Obama hides his true right leaning roots.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:33:51 PM EST

Re: Fuck that! (none / 0)

this isn't true. illinois has been experimenting with charter schools (sans religion) for some time now. With mixed results.


!
by alex100 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:34:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Was Hillarys live?

Obama's was edited, and who knows what else was asked that was cut out. Being taped yesterday and all.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:36:38 PM EST

Rodney King allusion by Mme. Clinton? (none / 0)

Mike Allen put up his recap of Hillary's half of the "Chesapeake Challenge." This stands out:

During the half-hour conversation, she said that when she hears Obama's oratory about a more civil politics, she wonder what fights he would avoid. "You never hear the specifics," Clinton said. "It's all this kind of abstract, general talk about how we all need to get along. I want to get along, and I have gotten along, in the Senate. I will work with Republicans to find common cause whenever I can. But I will also stand my ground because there are fights worth having."

Nice.

Emphasis mine.


by prog frog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:45:29 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 0)

I'm pretty effin pissed actually.  I tried to send an email to Mike Allen (he's listed as author for the interviews).  Well, Politico.com keeps telling me I'm using inappropriate language.  What's inappropriate about this:

Dear Mr. Allen,

There was supposed to be a thirty minute interview with Senators Obama and Clinton at Politico.com this evening that would be streamed live.  Imagine my surprise when no streaming was available.  Not only that, but the full transcript and video with Senator Obama was quickly made available after the event, and is at this very moment front paged with prominence, but the only link to Senator Clinton's interview is a woefully inadequate short summary written by yourself.  There is no transcript.  There is no video.  Once again the media has relegated Senator Clinton to a second class status.  You sir, have proved that Politico.com is no better than MSNBC.

Sincerely,
Notable Absence

I'm really not happy about this BS!


by notableabsence on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:48:14 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (2.00 / 1)

Via Ben Smith's blog at Politico:

John Harris: Senator, the presidency is not just an inspirational job. It's also an executive job, in which presidents have to make really tough decisions virtually every day. Neither one of you has executive experience.

Barack Obama:  - Nor Sen. McCain.

JH - Nor Sen. McCain - that's very true. What I wonder is, since you came to Washington, what's the toughest decision you've had to make? What made is so hard? And what does that tell us about you as president?

BO: Well, obviously legislative decisions come up all the time. So one very difficult decision was deciding to vote against the Iraq war. I had consistently said that I wanted to make sure our troops got the adequate and training in the war effort, despite the fact that I opposed the war at the point that the president decided to double down and send more troops. It became clear that he was not going to sit down and negotiate some sort of exit strategy. I had to vote against funding as a way of bringing it back to the table. That was a difficult decision for me, because it was contrary to my view, particularly after you visit Iraq and you visit the troops over there, you want to give them a strong signal that you support them.

Isn't that a bit deceptive? You voted against the Iraq war? Really? Yes, I realize he then specified voting against funding, but still..


by Tove on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:13:18 PM EST

Umm, charter schools? (none / 0)

Is Obama on the bridge to the 20th century? We've been there, done that, doesn't work.


by ineedalife on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:56:16 PM EST

Re: Politico Presidential Forum Thread (none / 0)

Hillary is full of it on Michigan.  First, the DNC announces that the results won't count.  Then, the DNC requests all candidates to withdraw their names from the ballot.  Hillary doesn't; Barack does.  So he does what he is asked, and is to be penalized?

This whole thing is like what would happen if the Redskins won their last preseason game, and then came in and asked the NFL to count it.  I mean, both teams showed up.  The game was 60 minutes long.  What else matters?

I have family in Michigan.  They didn't bother to go to the polls on primary day because they had been told in advance that the results wouldn't count.  If they had been told that the results were going to count, they'd have gone.

I think that the DNC needs to say to Florida and Michigan, "You have until mid-June to find a way to select delegates that follows the Party Plan.  Caucuses, conventions, you name it.  But we said that that primary won't count, and it won't.  Solve the problem yourselves.  Don't think you can bluff or scare us into waiving the rules for you."


by cvllelaw on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:29:56 AM EST

That is not true (none / 0)

Nobody asked Obama to withdraw his name from the Michigan ballot.  He did that on his own.  The candidates made a pledge to the DNC not to campaign or spend money in the state, but they were not required to remove their names from the ballot.


by Sonya on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 03:06:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That is not true (none / 0)

And it was clearly understood and acknowledged by all candidates that Michigan's primary vote would not count.


by goodnbad on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:19:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

HOW can either candidate campaign in FL or MI (none / 0)

HOW can either candidate campaign in FL or MI this fall after NOT seating their delegation?

Do you have ANY idea what effect that will have on the campaign?  Electoral votes are winner-take-all:  They've GOT to win.  

And how do we win if we virtually write-off FL & MI before we start?

Erase the candidate positions from your mind for just one second and explain to those voters in MI & FL how we were just following The Rules.

Would that satisfy you if you lived in those states?


by katiebird on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:28:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW can either candidate campaign in FL or MI (none / 0)

Are you saying that Michigan Democrats are willing to risk putting up with "four more years of Bush" and more Republican Supreme Court appointments just so they can punish the DNC - for punishing THEM when THEY violated party rules? Fortunately, I doubt that the majority of them would choose to be so petty at such a critical time.

Plus, if they want to direct their anger at anybody, it should be towards their OWN MICHGAN ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES who made the decision to play fast and loose with the primary calendar in the first place.


by goodnbad on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:15:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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