NY-Sen: Senator Caroline Kennedy?

Via Senate Guru, ABC News has reportedly learned "from a Democrat who would know" that Gov. David Patterson has spoken seriously with Caroline Kennedy about taking Hillary Clinton's place in the Senate.

It's not exactly shocking that Paterson would reach out to one of the most highly respected public figures in New York, but this is:  Sources say Kennedy is considering it, and has not ruled out coming to Washington to replace Hillary Clinton in the Senate.

A few years ago, the famously private Caroline Kennedy would be the last Kennedy expected to serve in Congress, but of course, she took on a much more high-profile role during the presidential campaign and, if she does it, would be more than New York's junior Senator; she'd have closer ties to the Obama White House than any of her colleagues, a direct line to the East Wing.

As Guru notes, this access to the president could be good for New York and hence good for Patterson, as the man with the burden of making the choice. And certainly her celebrity, which comes with 100% name recognition, is worth a fortune when it comes to running statewide in 2010. But that's the thing, she'll have to run and win in a couple of years and that's something Kennedy has never done. I've seen her speak, she is almost painfully reserved and charisma-free; will she be able to convince the state that they should vote for her on her own merits? And will her appointment be seen as having been earned or just a function of her famous name? Or will any of this matter because really, how do you run against Caroline Kennedy?

Update [2008-12-5 17:6:11 by Todd Beeton]:The Hill is now confirming that Caroline Kennedy is indeed interested in the seat (h/t bobswern.)



Display:


Re: NY-Sen: Senator Caroline Kennedy? (2.00 / 2)

I'm just thankful Patterson is making this decision and not Spitzer.

On Kennedy, her biggest plus I'd say is that she isn't a career politician. I like the out of the box thinking actually.


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by Charles Lemos on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:48:48 PM EST

Career politicians (2.00 / 1)

It brings me joy every time someone who isn't a career politician is named to office.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:03:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Career politicians (2.00 / 1)

I am not sure Caroline Kennedy is the poster child for outsider cred, though.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Point taken (2.00 / 2)

Still, sometimes the best elected officials are those that have no real need for the office they possess.  Caroline would be just fine if she wasn't holding office, and she'd be fine if she got defeated; her normal career could continue.  I would expect her to act according to her own conscience, not according to the most recent poll.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:03:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Career politicians (none / 0)

This kind of thinking always amazes me.

You'd want a person with no experience in public office to represent you?  Why on earth would you expect they could represent you effectively in the US Senate?  You think just any smart, good-hearted person can do this job?

Would you ask somebody off the street to perform brain surgery on you?  To put out a fire in your house?  To teach your kid algebra?  To build your car?


by DFLer on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read up on Cincinnatus. (none / 0)

Sometimes the best leaders are the ones who desire it least.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:00:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read up on Cincinnatus. (none / 0)

I have.  Meh.

Celebrities and hereditary rule are great for TV, and Roman myths make for righteous rhetoric, but Cincinnatus didn't have to staff a Washington office, or set up a constituent service operation.

He didn't have to learn the jurisdictions of his subcommittees and learn from scratch how to write legislation.

He didn't have to vote dozens of times a week on matters that span the full reach of a huge government serving 300-million people and struggling to help a globalized economy recover from its greatest crisis in 75 years.

I can't imagine the people of New York will like waiting a year or two for their Senator to learn how to do her job.

I wouldn't call this a proud moment in the history of American representative democracy.    It's Lisa Murkowski all over again.


by DFLer on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Career politicians (none / 0)

Frankly if those with experience have led to this, I daresay we couldn't do much worse could we?

It's not like she isn't intelligent or well-trained. She has had an amazing life experience and is much more grounded than many of her more political cousins.

There was a time in this country when people went to Washington and then served the public interest for a few years and then left. Now we have a revolving door between government and corporations. A Federal bureaucracy is the place for experts, the Congress is a place for citizens.


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by Charles Lemos on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We can always do worse. (none / 0)

I would think that eight years of W would prevent anyone from ever saying things couldn't get worse.

Good people and good intentions are not good government.  Good government is good government.


by DFLer on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 07:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NY-Sen: Senator Caroline Kennedy? (2.00 / 1)

I don't know, I hope there's a little more to the selection process than name recognition and access.  Standing alone, I do not feel like those two factors justify an appointment.


by rfahey22 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:06:48 PM EST

Balancing act (2.00 / 1)

Caroline Kennedy very successfully walks the line between "legacy candidate," which I don't like, and "accomplished non-career politician," which I DO like.

I've only ever heard good things about her, and while she's not the greatest speaker, I think that she is the sort of person like Hillary Clinton who can become accomplished at anything she puts her mind to.

As for how someone might run against her... well, think of it this way: The Republicans ran a smear campaign against Patti Wetterling in the Wetterling - Bachmann election of 2006.  Yes, the lady who ran an organization to help missing and abused children got hit with the business end of Republican smears.  So don't worry about how someone might run against Caroline.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:11:38 PM EST

She would have almost 4 years before she runs..... (none / 0)

That is plenty time.


by Joshuagen on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, (none / 0)

     She'd have to run in 2010 to serve the balance of the term (two years) and then again in 2012 for a full term.
     Even if she's appointed, why are we assuming she'd run? She'd be the perfect person to hold the seat for two years and then step aside for an open primary in 2010. We do well when he have primaries.
     Also, I think there's a bit of a legitimacy problem with having Gov. Patterson appoint somebody to the seat, especially if this is the last time there's an open senate seat in New York for 20 years (Sen. Schumer just turned 58). When people voted for Governor in 2006, they knew that there was a good possibility that Sen. Clinton would not complete her term, and that the governor they elected would appoint her replacement. But nobody voted for Gov. Patterson to do that.
by Ron Thompson on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I bet Hillary would feel really liberated....... (none / 0)

She had to act a lot more hawkish in order to be senator from NY.


by Joshuagen on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:44:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I bet Hillary would feel really liberated (none / 0)

Nonsense. She felt she had to act a lot more hawkish than she may actually be because she wanted to run for president.


by Quinton on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 07:29:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok name one senator less hawkish than Hillary..... (none / 0)

from New York in the past 100 years. She could never have voted against Iraq war.


by Joshuagen on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:00:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They all were a lot more hawkish (none / 0)

compared to Hillary.

This is what the right wing nuts accused her before:


     "On November 11, 1999, during a Gaza appearance with First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, Suha Arafat, wife of Palestinian Authority (PA) Chairman Yasser Arafat stated: "Our people have been subjected to the daily and extensive use of poisonous gas by the Israeli forces, which has led to an increase in cancer cases among women and children."
    -more

So what exactly happened in 1999? :

   "Clinton's early support for Palestinian statehood rankled the Israeli government as well as supporters of Israel at home, so on her next trip to the West Bank the following year she choose not to meet with Arafat, just his wife. But her meeting with the Palestinian First Lady was even more disastrous. Hillary listened attentively as Suha Arafat bizarrely accused Israel of poisoning Palestinians with toxic gas--causing cancer among children and miscarriages among women--and as other Palestinian Authority officials called for a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. After the remarks, Clinton embraced Mrs. Arafat and kissed her on the cheek. She did not reply to the anti-Israel harangue until, after outcry by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and American Jewish leaders, Clinton lamely offered, 'I do not believe any kind of inflammatory rhetoric or baseless charges are good for the peace process.'"


by Joshuagen on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 07:39:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jacob Javitz, Bobby Kennedy, Irving Ives (none / 0)

Javits was a moderate republican Robert kennedey initially sided with conservative Democrats and ordered wiretaps on MLK in the later years he changed. Both their Foreign policy positions were quite hawkish.


by Joshuagen on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:01:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm suffering from a bit of celebrity fatigue (1.75 / 4)

She's not the most qualified for the seat.  Let them find an experienced public servant to do the state's business, not a show pony with a famous name.  I would have said the same thing w/JFK Jr.  The guy failed the NY bar three times.  

NY is a big state, with lots of problems.  Time for a serious pick.


by activatedbybush on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:13:16 PM EST

although I agree with your point (2.00 / 2)

Caroline Kennedy is a lot more accomplished academically than her brother was.

Probably someone more qualified for this seat could be found, though.


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by desmoinesdem on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:30:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then she should run in a primary (2.00 / 2)

Not be nominated as Senator. If we are honest, then  if she was not  Kennedy and not supported Obama, she would not even be in contention.


by ann0nymous on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:19:20 PM EST

Does that matter? (2.00 / 1)

Being involved with the Kennedys' works and working closely with the President-Elect ARE qualifications.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NY-Sen: Senator Caroline Kennedy? (none / 0)

I haven't seen one thing so far that shows her qualifications. What exactly has she done to warrant her accepting such a prestigious and important position?


by mecarr on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:37:38 PM EST

Er? (2.00 / 1)

President of the Kennedy Library Foundation
Director of the Commission on Presidential Debates
Director of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund
Co-authored 2 books and authored 1 more
Edited 4 NYT best sellers
Co-chaired Barack Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee

And, in case it matters...

Contributed maximum to Hillary Clinton in June, 2008

That's more than enough to act as an appointee, if you ask me.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:58:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Er? (1.00 / 1)

1. She only got this because she is JFK's daughter

2. What do they do?  How difficult can this job be?

3. Again, only because she has Kennedy in her name.

4. and 5.  Kitty Kelley has authored several best-sellers but I wouldn't want her to be a senator.

5.  Again, only because she had Kennedy in her name

As far as giving the maximum to Clinton.  I did that as well and I sure as hell not qualified to be a senator.  I think you standards are too low.


by realtarheel on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The question isn't how she got it... (2.00 / 1)

...but how she did with the opportunity.

One could say that Hillary Clinton only won her Senate Seat because she's a Clinton, does that imply that she didn't do well with the office?


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The question isn't how she got it... (none / 0)

One could say that, but Hillary Clinton's experience was far greater than just having the name Clinton after it.  The question should be how Caroline Kennedy got it.  Hillary campaigned for the position and proved herself before the voters of New York.  Caroline Kennedy, apart from writing books, has always been appointed to her positions and those appointments have come because of her name.  Once again, that seems to be the case for this senate seat.  Again, I think your standards are too low.  I think there are far better qualified people to represent the citizens of NY. Hillary has been a constituent oriented representative of NY.  I just don't see Carolina Kennedy possesing that same ability.  


by realtarheel on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm sorry (1.00 / 1)

Caroline Maloney, Andrew Cuomo, Nita Lowry and any of the other potential appointee's don't care about people?

Also, I care about people. Should Patterson appoint me instead? I have more political experience than Caroline and more campaign experience, which is important since she'll have to run for re-election iin 2010 and 2012.

I'm not trying to bash on Mrs. Kennedy here, but if you're going to argue she's qualified, don't demean her by saying she should be appointed because she's "nice".


by world dictator on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:34:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm sorry (1.00 / 1)

She is well qualified, just as Obama was well qualified. All you need is intelligence, and good judgment, in touch with the public and political muscle to win elections. Arguing experience is hilarious since Hillary and McCain both got trounced while they touted their so called experience.

Oh and he helped select Obama's VP and was close adviser to him and yet you think you are more qualified? Hilarious.


by YourConcernsAreNoted on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 12:25:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm sorry (none / 0)

The obscene fallacy of this meme is that experience and judgment (and all the other great qualities you enumerated) are mutually exclusive.

There are experienced people with good judgment, as there are "good-judgmented" people with experience.

I'm sure you could assemble a great list of New Yorkers with ALL good qualifications, experience included.


by Sieglinde on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 10:01:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Er? (none / 0)

Those all seem like positions you get when you're rich and politically/socially connected.

I'm sure Caroline Kennedy is a likeable lady, but her biggest political achievement thus far has been endorsing Obama. Maybe I'm old fashion, but I think people should have to earn things in life. She might make a great politician someday, but there are plenty of other deserving and well qualified people in New York.

Also, I don't think a lack of political experience means you are qualified for office. The whole "well people with experience made a mistake once so maybe we should get unexperienced people next time" logic makes no sense. That's like saying "an experienced doctor made a mistake once so we should start allowing inexperienced doctors perform all the major surgeries." Um no.

I'm sorry people, I just ain't buying it. Its called balance. Just because I don't want a career politician who's lost touch with the people in office doesn't mean I want someone with no political experience in politics/campaigning representing me.


by world dictator on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (none / 0)

I think you miss the point.  The point is highlighting the ridiculousness of inexperience being a positive.  


by realtarheel on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (none / 0)

Say hello to president Obama. you and McCain failed with that argument over the most important job in the country.


by YourConcernsAreNoted on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 12:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought dynasties are bad? (none / 0)

Someone needs to issue daily updates on this kind of thing, so we can all get in line.
Otherwise, how will we know if we're at war with Oceania?
I'm still a sceptic!
by kosnomore on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:52:29 PM EST

Re: wtf are you talking about? (none / 0)

Bushes, Murkowskis, stuff like that.

We were supposed to hate this hereditary dynasty stuff a few months ago because it was undemocratic.  Now we're supposed to love it because it brings connections and public support.  It's so hard to keep track.

If you miss the Oceania reference, go read Orwell's 1984.


by DFLer on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 12:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NY-Sen: Senator Caroline Kennedy? (2.00 / 1)

Caroline is the perfect choice.  She is highly popular and wont cost us a House seat.  


by Kent on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:02:20 PM EST

Absolutely not (2.00 / 1)

Let me start by saying that I have no issue with Caroline Kennedy as an individual.  What I do have a problem with is yet politically connected aristocrat getting handed a senate seat.  An appointment of Caroline Kennedy to this seat would be yet another example of the NYC elite shutting the rest of the state out of the political conversation.

I hate to sound like some hack from the NY Republican party, but NYC and the rest of the downstate region have held far too much power in this state.  Sure, upstate has had its share of powerful state senate leaders, but they've been mostly been corrupt fools like Joe Bruno.  It has been over three decades since there has been a senator from Upstate NY, and far longer since there has been a governor from there.  Sure, downstate pols will pay attention to the needs of the rest of the state, although to what level depends on how much they need our votes.  

But regardless, a pick of Caroline Kennedy would likely harden the deep cynicism of millions of upstaters towards our political leadership. For deacdes, residents of the region have seen a once booming economy get outsourced as their communities depopulate and their children exit the region in droves for opportunities elsewhere.  A wealthy political scion insulated in upper class Manhattan cannot understand their struggles, no matter how hard he or she attempts to.  I am sure that if she was picked, Caroline Kennedy would work to represent all of NY State, but she would not have the perspective that to address the problems and be an effective voice for the region.


by T Law on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:41:57 PM EST

15 Senators Have Family Connections To High Office (none / 0)

Glenn Greenwald had a good piece on this.

On the one hand, being in a political family gives you connections and insights into political strategy  that can help you win and govern.  For example, Nancy Pelosi's father was mayor of Baltimore, and Gov. Kathleen Sebelius had family members who'd won office in Ohio.  Hillary campaigned with Bill every time he ran, and she even began her adult career as a staffer on the Watergate hearings... and she worked hard to campaign and win.

But let's hope one thing Paterson is considering is the long-term strength of the Democratic Party.  This seat could be a chance shake things up and give new political talent a chance to bloom.  If Caroline Kennedy becomes Senator, does she really go anywhere from there?  A Blue state like NY could be a farm team for future Presidential candidates.


by joeltpatterson on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:08:22 PM EST

Re: NY-Sen: Senator Caroline Kennedy? (none / 0)

I like the idea.  Caroline Kennedy hasn't just "written books," she's written books about political history and Constitutional law.  Her family history is a plus.  Yes, the Kennedys are a dynasty, but it's one with a long history of devotion to public service, rather than one merely one of money and power-seeking, like the Bushes.

It's a big mistake to think the only experience qualifying one for public office is public office.  The framers and founder of our country and Constitution didn't like the idea of "professional politicians"; they preferred people who had already accomplished things in life to then go into public service.  Experience in other endeavors gives you a broader perspective, trains your knowledge and judgment.

What interests me is that she's interested at all.  Until she got involved in Obama's campaign, she's neither sought nor wanted to be in politics.  I'd like to know what changed her mind; whether it's something as basic as the fact that her children are grown and she doesn't need to devote as much of her energies to them, or if she truly feels a call to service now that the country needs rebuilding practically from the ground up.

I know most bloggers and commenters are sick to death of the Boomers, but a big thing we've never gotten over is how the progressive movement of the 60s was short circuited - mainly by assassinations (JKF, LK, RFK), which not only stole our best leaders from us, but enabled the forces of reaction to gain control of the country.   In some ways, the Democratic sweep feels like a chance to revive that egalitarian movement.  I think Caroline might feel that way, and also want to repair/restore her father's and uncle's legacy.


by CaseyL on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 01:34:46 AM EST


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