MyDD :: Pink triangulation

Pink triangulation

by kosnomore, Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:49:13 AM EST

Pink triangle:

"The pink triangle (German: Rosa Winkel) was one of the Nazi concentration camp badges, used by the Nazis to identify male prisoners in concentration camps who were sent there because of their homosexuality."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triang le

Triangulation:

"Triangulation is the name given to the act of a political candidate presenting his or her ideology as being "above" and "between" the "left" and "right" sides (or "wings") of a traditional (e.g. UK or US) democratic "political spectrum". It involves adopting for oneself some of the ideas of one's political opponent (or apparent opponent). The logic behind it is that it both takes credit for the opponent's ideas, and insulates the triangulator from attacks on that particular issue. Opponents of triangulation[who?], who believe in a fundamental "left" and "right", consider the dynamic a deviation from its "reality" and dismiss those that strive for it as whimsical."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulati on_(politics)

Pink triangulation:

"Obama defends choice of gay-marriage opponent Rev. Rich Warren to deliver invocation - Calling on Americans to "come together, even though we may have disagreements on certain social issues," President-elect Barack Obama on Thursday defended his choice of conservative evangelical Rev. Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration, a choice that had angered supporters of Obama who see the minister as intolerant to gays."
http://www.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_1 1267466

Are you really surprised that a campaign which took off after the gospel tour with Rev. Donnie McClurkin in South Carolina concludes with Rev. Rick Warren in Washington, D.C.?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_McCl urkin

By the way, Obama never lied about his position on marriage equality. Joe Biden stated it very clearly at the vice presidential debate. If you're disappointed, it's only because you were hoping Obama was lieing.

FarRightDemocrat.blogspot.com

Tags: Barack Obama, Rick Warren, Donnie McClurkin, Joe Biden (all tags)

Permalink :: 34 Comments :: Post a Comment

DFTT n/t (2.00 / 1)

What is The October Protocol?

by Koan on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:56:31 AM EST

Re: Pink triangulation (none / 0)

It's not just triangulation on gay issues. It's triangulation on the entire so called culture war. And anyone to whom this wasn't blindingly obvious by late 2007 was never paying attention. Andrew Sullivan shouldn't be surprised either, he knows Obama better than anyone.

by Beet on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:00:57 AM EST

He's not surprised (none / 0)

anyone who knows Obama knows this is typical of him. I don't know what's shocking people...I guess a lot of people thought change means governing like Bush did, just with us in power now.

That was never what Obama stood for and that wasn't what I voted for.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:07:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pink triangulation (none / 0)

What, you know that Sullivan knows Obama better than anyone? Oh please!!

by venician on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:16:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the salient bit (2.00 / 2)

Opponents of triangulation, who believe in a fundamental "left" and "right"

What's interesting is that by that definition one is either a triangulator or a purist. What's even more interesting that there are exactly two points on the ideology continuum where you are NOT a triangulator.

In short, a triangulating approach best represents a Party's center-of-gravity, even if it pisses off those in the outlying "tails".

BTW, I did you the courtesy of ignoring your first paragraph. There is a reason Godwin's Law is so oft-used as a standard, ham-handed Nazi references far outnumber clever ones. Despite what authors think.

by Neef on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:26:57 AM EST

On the contrary - - (2.00 / 1)

I'm not violating Godwin's law because I'm not accusing anyone of being or comparing anyone to the Nazis.
In fact, the pink triangle, like many other prejoratives for sexual, ethnic and racial minorities, has been given the Lenny Bruce treatment, i.e., de-fanged and adopted by it's former intended victims as an emblem of self identification and pride. Take a walk through San Francisco or Greenwich Village / Chelsea during pride week. Those pink triangles you see do not indicate support for the Nazis.

I'm still a sceptic!

by kosnomore on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:42:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the contrary - - (2.00 / 2)

Whether you intend it or not, your association of the 'pink triangle' with someone who is not within the community carries and implication of replicating NAZI oppression. It may have been some attempt at wit or irony. But its more irresponsible than playful here. There is a big difference between members of a marginalized group subverting the symbol of their marginalization and a non-member using that symbol to paint another non-member as that group's opponent.

It's really not that subtle. I would think you'd be able to see it. Or do you think it's unfair for black people to use the 'n-word' and maintain its inappropriateness for others to do so?

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:27:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Those symbols aren't de-fanged (none / 0)

they are re-directed.

I suppose I could walk around with a Black Pride pin that showed a tree and a noose. It's certainly a rather militant statement.

by Neef on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the salient bit (none / 0)

Funny that kos also calls himself a "far right democrat" LOL

by venician on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 02:04:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pink triangulation (2.00 / 3)

Once again, I will make my prediction - Rick Warren's prayer will irritate few (equally divided between fringes right & left), please most of the people who listen, and fit perfectly with the themes of Obama's inaugural speech.

And GLBT rights will have the best four years in recorded history, thanks to Obama. Women, the working class, the sick, the poor, immigrants, and Veterans will also be beneficiaries of the changes being prayed over by Rick Warren.

I might even bow my head while he delivers it, and watch C-Span so I don't have to hear the runny commentary about how the Left is fuming over the presence of Rick Warren on the stage.

Dunno about the rest of you, but I'm only a little ways through this bowl of popcorn.

by QTG on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:24:19 PM EST

Re: Pink triangulation (2.00 / 2)

This is also my hope. I think it's a reasonable hope. In the mean time, I think it is totally appropriate for people to object.

On the other hand, using this to argue that Obama is fundamentally indifferent to gay rights, civil rights, social and economic justice, health care, motherhood, puppies, rainbows, music, love, and ice cream, is patently loony and annoying.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:30:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pink triangulation (2.00 / 2)

One minor correction:

The best eight years in recorded history. (Followed by another eight for Obama's Democratic successor.)

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

An excellent point (2.00 / 1)

about many on the Right being annoyed by this.

by Neef on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:52:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An excellent point (2.00 / 1)

The poor Cornerites forgot to read this diary.

On Obama and Same-Sex Marriage [Ed Whelan]

Defenders of marriage shouldn't be conned by President-elect Obama's selection of evangelical pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at the inauguration. Although Obama claims to be against same-sex marriage, his opposition to California's Proposition 8--which overturned the California supreme court's invention of a state constitutional right to same-sex marriage--shows that he is content to acquiesce in judicial imposition of same-sex marriage. Further, it's a safe bet that Obama's appointees to the Supreme Court will support the invention of a federal constitutional right to same-sex marriage. (As illustrations, consider the records of two of the leading contenders for appointment, Harold Koh and Deval Patrick.)

Emphasis added.

Heh.

It's clear that both the Ensign and Sanford marriages were the victims of the increasing number of states approving gay marriage.

by January 20 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 02:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This whole thing has rekindled a divide here (2.00 / 1)

When I was in Virginia and North Carolina campaigning, I campaigned with people who opposed abortion, people who once supported the war alongside those who never did. People who read the Bible, went to church, atheists, those who opposed gay marriage and those who supported it. Those who thought homosexuality was a sin, but didn't believe there should be a legal mandate to say such. We had great debates about policy in the office and in the cars on our way to canvassing.

I remember one of the girls working with us commented that "One thing is for sure, if he wins, Obama is going to piss each one of us off at different times"

The day before I left after the election, I went out bar hopping in Brooklyn...we went to a gay club and I remember the DJ playing a remix of a Carrie Underwood song...Carrie Underwood, who is a religious evangelical and I'm willing to bet doesn't support gay marriage. In hindsight, looking at that juxtaposition of an evangelical country musician's song being remixed in a gay club...that's Obama's America IMO.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:49:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pink triangulation (none / 0)

Someone refresh my memory: did Billy Graham's role at Bill Clinton's inauguration get this kind of reaction?

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:52:01 PM EST

Billy was always more apolitical (2.00 / 1)

It really was a different era when Billy came up.
In the '50's and 60's and 70's, politically active clergy tended to be liberal on civil rights and the Vietnam war.
At that time, conservative clergy were still adhering to traditional Baptist priciples of church / state separation. People in the modern politicized Baptist church (starting with Anita Bryant et al in the late '70's) forget - - Southern Baptists used to be FOR church / state separation.
None of this is to say that Billy didn't have opinions, but he never campaigned for sides or issues ala Falwell or Robinson or WARREN.
Billy prided himself on being the president's pastor, whoever it was at the time.

I'm still a sceptic!

by kosnomore on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 02:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Billy made his opposition (2.00 / 2)

to abortion and gay rights well known, and he did take strong stands against Roe v. Wade, but never used it as a litmus test when he served a President. Clinton's pro-choice position did not bother him and apparently Obama's pro-gay rights views don't bother Warren.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I saw a snippet of his interview tonight (none / 0)

but could not stomach watching him and mostly I refuse to be part of giving him the ratings to promulgate his hate agenda.

Thanks to Obama, he's been put in the spotlight, once again, by selecting Warren, he validated him as a person worthy of giving his invocation, therefore, giving him a platform to propagandize his divisive hate mongering. Had Obama not invited him, he would not have had a 2hr interview, in prime time on a major network, most likely spewing his continued hate using religious values as an excuse!

by suzieg on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 12:02:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I understand (2.00 / 1)

I felt the same way when Bill Clinton marched Billy Graham at his inaguaration.

Sure, Obama gave him a platform. It's not like the guy wrote a best-selling book or anything...please.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 12:58:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't bring Clinton into this argument. We knew (1.00 / 1)

exactly who we were getting when we voted for him unlike Obama. Stating that Clinton also did wrong, therefore, it should be acceptable for me to watch the swearing in ceremony of a democratic president, who openly validates the rhetoric of bigotry and hate on the day of his inauguration, is way beyond the pale. If you felt so strongly about Graham, as I do for Warren, then it goes without saying that you should be more demanding of Obama, so spare me the indignation! If you're so willing to accept this affront to the GLBT community, it really doesn't speak well of your character.

Secondly, you've confirmed my impression of your lack of compassion by responding that, as long as the perpetrator of overt bigotry is a best selling author it's okay for you to have him in a prominent role at the ceremony! Might I remind you that Hitler and Mao also wrote best sellers....

by suzieg on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 03:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes. (2.00 / 1)

Barack Obama is a horrible human being.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 03:43:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's amazing (none / 0)

Is that you admit you don't hold them to the same standard.

"I voted for one shameful person because I KNEW he was shameful. I didn't know this one was shameful, so I'm appalled".

It sort of undermines your argument.

by Neef on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:12:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I saw a snippet of his interview tonight (none / 0)

What you fail to understand is that like you, now millions of people can see what a hypocrite he is. In the end this will diminish his standing with moderate christians. But then again you don't realize that Obama is playing politics as chess and you are stuck playing checkers.

by venician on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol wut (2.00 / 1)

"Is AIDS a judgment of God?" - Billy Graham

by JJE on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 12:45:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

See my previous response - I stand by it! (none / 0)

by suzieg on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 03:21:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: See my previous response - I stand by it! (2.00 / 3)

I see that you're an apologist for homophobes. Am I missing something?

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:01:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pink triangulation (2.00 / 1)

Graham was far less homophobic in his preaching. Also Clinton then went on to put his head on the block to push for gay rights within his first 100 days. Let's see if Obama goes so far to support GLBT rights in his first term.

by swissffun on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 08:48:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh good (2.00 / 1)

Now Billy Graham is being rehabilitated in the service of the anti-Obama cause. Try Nixon next.

by JJE on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 09:20:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh good (2.00 / 1)

Who signed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"?

Dunno about the rest of you, but I'm only a little ways through this bowl of popcorn.

by QTG on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 12:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh good (2.00 / 1)

it's what the Powell military, wingers and fellow Democrats in the Senate forced him into. were you paying attention in the 90's?

by swissffun on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 09:43:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh good (2.00 / 1)

criticizing an Obama decision is not 'anti-Obama'. graham being as bad as warren was put out here as somehow justifying the choice. i'm not a fan of either, but to put them on equal footing is plain wrong. and i'm NOT rehabilitating graham by stating the simple fact that he was less vile than warren in his homophobia.

by swissffun on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 09:41:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you're lying about it (none / 0)

because Graham was just as vile. And your purpose in doing so is to slam Obama. Thus my comment was completely accurate.

by JJE on Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 12:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're lying about it (none / 0)

hyper sensitive. if Obama does something I disagree with, and I comment on it - that makes me overall slamming Obama. how rude of you to belittle valid concerns as being nothing but slamming Obama. get over it.

by swissffun on Mon Dec 29, 2008 at 06:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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