Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action

As I wrote last night, in the wake of the stunning verdict by the voters of California to amend the state constitution to remove the rights of same-sex couples to marry -- to actually eliminate the same rights under the law that heterosexual couples have -- we have seen a truly passionate and angry response bubble up from the ground in opposition to the passage of Prop 8.

For three straight days, we've seen massive marches in the streets of Los Angeles and San Francisco. This just doesn't happen here. It's amazing to watch take place but there's a danger that this anger won't be harnessed and converted into a longterm marriage equality movement. Our opposition is already moving to invalidate all the legal same-sex marriages that were performed between June and November and Tony Perkins is trying to marginalize the protests as "anti-family rioting."

Determined not to let the passion that people are feeling about this dissipate, the Courage Campaign (for whom I do some work) today launched a Repeal Prop 8 effort. From Rick Jacobs, Chair of the Courage Campaign:

We are witnessing the birth of a new Marriage Equality Movement -- the civil rights movement of the 21st Century. Organized from the bottom-up by thousands of ordinary people just like you in the last 48 hours, this people-powered phenomenon is exponentially growing by the minute, online and offline. [...]

Movements are visceral and popular, often borne of outrage and anger. What we are witnessing on the streets and online is a community of people who have come together to say: "These are our lives. This is our time. This is unacceptable."

This is our moment to stand strong together -- gay and straight -- and say that we refuse to accept a California that enshrines bigotry into our state constitution. Please pledge your support now to repeal Prop 8 and restore marriage equality to California -- then forward this message to your friends.

Please sign the pledge to support Courage Campaign's effort to repeal Prop 8 HERE.

As Jacobs said on a conference call with supporters last night (you can listen to it HERE) the goal here would be to get a new initiative on a 2010 ballot. I suspect if we could get it on the June primary ballot, which is likely to draw progressives out in droves to pick a gubernatorial nominee (yes, Arnold is finally up in 2010), that would be ideal but I expect the strategy will be rolled out in the coming days. This is a crucial first step toward making sure the passion that people are feeling about Tuesday's result manifests into real change down the road. Also, please join the Repeal Prop 8 Facebook page.

Mayor Gavin Newsom was on MSNBC earlier today to discuss the passage of Prop 8 and it became clear to me that -- assuming restoring marriage rights is going to be a 2010 fight -- that this issue is going to be central to the governor's race. Newsom is already positioning himself as a contender, using his fame as the guy who unilaterally legalized same-sex marriage in San Francisco four years ago as a launching point, and now this result makes Newsom's leadership on the issue newly relevant. We could literally have a Democratic primary for governor hinge on who is MOST supportive of marriage equality. How refreshing that would be.



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Re: Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

I live in SF and must have missed the "massive" demonstrations. I guess it depends on your definition of "massive". In any case, I think the idea of simply trying to reverse Proposition 8 is not necessarily the best strategy. I think the alternative proposal should be for the state not to recognize the word "marriage" but simply to issue civil union licenses. People can get "married" in a church. The State shouldn't care about anything but legal status. That should blunt the religious argument about marriage being sacred. Fine, it's sacred; then it should go to church and stay there.

Personally, I hate propositions on principle. Legislating in this way is quiet mob rule. We have a representative democracy in order to promote reasoned debate about complex issues. Appealing to ignorant is not likely to yield wise policy.


by Marsden on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:24:53 PM EST

Re: Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (2.00 / 1)

a)There were several thousand according to Towleroad, I believe, for SF. They were also in various places in the state rather than just one. I have a friend who just got in under the gun of marrying his partner who is attending one , I believe, this weekend. He says he is seeming passion that he hasn't seen before. He's also a guy who typically apolitical at best.

b) Why is it that whenever someone says one solution is bad, they come up with one worse? If y ou think widening the definition of marriage is hard, then try your plan for getting the state out of marriage. There is vitually zero chance that's going to happen. The only value of your approach would be in the theatricality of having religous groups admitting that the rights are important under state and federal law.

c) Agree about propositions. Think they are a horrible idea. Great in theory, horrible in practice. Not just for fundamental rights,but because of what they expect the general public on average to understand.


by bruh3 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

Six months ago I was a big proponent of the "all civil unions by the state and marriage left to the churches" idea.  There are two things that talked me out of this:

1) While there MIGHT be enough force of will for such a change in a place like CA, the laws all over the country and at the federal level use the term "marriage."

2) The churches against gay marriage already know that they will lose control over the word "marriage" even given such a demarcation between the state and the church.  This is because quite a few denominations have already indicated an interest in performing gay marriages.  For example, the Catholic church will still feel under siege if the Presbyterians are bonding gays and lesbians in holy matrimony.  They are enough self-aware to know that as other faiths go for it, they will end up looking like backwards jerks.  As much as religions try to adhere to their core principals, there are basic promotion issues to consider.  


by cthulhu on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 04:22:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gavin Newsom (2.00 / 1)

Todd, maybe you can't see it this way, but I think Gavin Newsom's "whether you like or not" line was devastating for the "No on 8" side.

This one guy I know who's not even registered to vote (believe I tried hard with him) told me that that ad was the single most devastating TV political commercial he had ever seen!

So, it's a little ironic, that Gavin Newsom who's been at the forefront of all this may have actually sunk gay marriage's chances in CA.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:26:55 PM EST

Re: Gavin Newsom (none / 0)

Stop searching for scapegoats. After spending the last two days debunking it's the "blacks" fault:

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/11/7/ 19537/5973

I don't want to have to deal with yours too. How about we blame those for created this mess- the Christian right and those who let their own ignorance guide them.


by bruh3 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:33:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gavin Newsom (none / 0)

Newsom's "Whether ya like it or not!!!" line was politically very powerful.  

If I was a fence sitting, I would have found that ad compelling.  His tone and words are everything the middle cannot stand about the "liberal" (code for gay) agenda.

The Yes on 8 crowd ran a better campaign. It's that simple.


by reggie44pride on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 03:43:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gavin Newsom (none / 0)

I agree that that ad was somewhat effective in the same way Howard Dean was marginalized by his over the top enthusiasm in the 2004 primary.  People get anxious seeing/hearing such things.  (I suspect that Newsom's voice was being intentionally distorted to maximize impact - feel free to talk me down from this).

But, really, what was devastating, was "the kids being taught about gay marriage in schools" ad.  That was the winner for them.  You can see it in the exits.  You can see it in the fact that the No on 8 rebuttal ad was followed by a Yes on 8 rebuttal rebuttal (They knew this was winning for them).  That ad swung more than enough moderates and maybe even a few liberals.  Yes, a totally spurious argument but I saw it working in liberal/moderate acquaintances who worried of the possibility of having to explain the whole gay thing to their kids earlier than they wished to.  And this is really the problem: many straight moderates and liberals are basically accepting of homosexuality but they are not yet committed to defending it - that's where you need to be when it comes to the question of children and families.  Straights have to be willing to take the buses into Modesto and Fresno and Bakersfield to support gay rights.  Having a huge rally in WeHo means little compared to a huge rally of mostly straight people in Barstow.  Straight families supporting gay families.  I am not saying that this is about calling in the straight cavalry because the gays alone can't do it; they might be able to achieve that bare margin needed.  But if we are talking about a lasting, unassailable difference, we lib/mod straights need to internalize this.  

Look at the primary Yes on 8 imagery: a man, a woman, a(n older) boy, a (younger) girl.  This is their model for a family.  We need to flood the state with shirts showing two male parents, two female parents, one female parent, one male parent, all boy children, all girl children, the girl child as older, grandparents as primary caregivers, adopted/foster parents as primary caregivers; the list goes on.  The Yes on 8 people don't represent CA, they represent a Norman Rockwell painting!

ok, my third post on this tonight - I'm overdoing it.


by cthulhu on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 03:57:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

Thank you Todd, for working on this.

There is an interim step that is missing.  Who misspent our $30 million?  Am I wrong, or did the gay community just get out-organized in its own backyard?  Out of state Mormons put together a better field plan and more compelling message on our issue in our state?

Who needs to be fired so we don't have their lameness hurting more gay people?  Did Ogilvy Mather do the media?  Did Steve Smith do the press?  What campaign structure did Equality California put together that let all this happen?  

We should have won this one.


Join the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee to fight for guaranteed, single-payer healthcare: www.GuaranteedHealthcare.org/blog
by California Nurses Shum on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:30:18 PM EST

Re: Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (2.00 / 1)

A theme that I have noticed in the blogs that support Proposition 8 is the misconception that gay people "choose" to love someone of the same gender.  One can choose their friends; one cannot choose who they fall in love with.  Ironically, being a Catholic, or a Jew, or a believer in any religion, IS a choice.  You can CHOOSE to be a believer in something greater than yourself, or choose not to believe.  The way in which you interpret scripture is also a choice.

The other misnomer is the statement "I don't hate gay people, I just disagree with them".  When someone says "I disagree with gays", there is connotation of being poorly educated in human development.  People might disagree on who should be the next President, or what kind of dog the Obama's should get.  However, to disagree with someone being gay is as ridiculous as disagreeing with someone being African American.  Being gay is not a "life-style" anymore than being Asian, African, European, or any other ethnicity.  Being gay, is not a "way of life".  Being gay just is.  One in ten human beings "just are".  This is the way we were born.  Why would anyone "chose" to live a life of discrimination?  

Being gay is not an organized movement to get back at our parents and render them forever asking "where did [they] go wrong?".  Being gay is not a covert form of anarchy or a manifestation of a bizarre desire to seek attention when in public places.  Being gay is as natural as the color of my eyes.  Sure, I can try wearing some irritating colored contact lenses but that would not change the true color of my eyes.

My eyes were opened on the morning of November 5th, 2008.  My elation with the election of Barack Obama to the highest office in America was washed away by the stark reality that gay people in America are far from free.  "Everyone is created equal" - except for gay people.  The "American Dream" is attainable by anyone - unless they are gay.  "Let freedom ring for all of God's children" - except the gay ones.

America does not have to be divided on this issue.  Americans have a choice.  Let it be an informed choice free of hate and discrimination.  Let it be a choice supporting equality for all.


by DrCarolyn on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:59:47 PM EST

AMEND Prop 8 (none / 0)

Prop 8 doesn't need to be repealed, it needs to be amended.  The amendment would state that:

- Marriage shall be open to all persons regardless of their gender and the gender of their spouse.

- No person, religious body or other organization shall be compelled to participate in or perform a marriage ceremony for any persons, regardless of reason.

The point is, you have to address some of the concerns on the other side as well.


by Alan on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 08:56:53 PM EST

Re: AMEND Prop 8 (none / 0)

I have maintained for some time that "marriage" should not be the function of the state.

Everybody gets Civil Unions and if they wish to have it ritualized by the cult of their choice that is up to them let them have gandalf, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other product of their delusional minds so be it.

But the cults have no legal standings. The rituals have no standing.  Civil Unions for all.


by Rational on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 01:39:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (2.00 / 1)


What we learned here in Massachusetts is that all the indirect appeals  don't work,  don't settle the issue for people.  Getting real couples out there into the public eye, letting average people see them in all their averageness and banality and simple love is what it takes.  To stand up for your rights, you...have to stand up for your rights.  Thinking there was some other way was the core mistake the NoOn8 campaign made if I've been informed correctly.  Maybe the punishment is somewhat deserved.  You have to supply your evidence and proofs in an indeniable way if you want something from average people.

Second, 46% of California voters polled in favor of gay marriage legalization two years ago.  Last year 47% were in favor.  Now we have 48% voting in favor.  Guess what the actual route to victory looks like and will take.  It will take a motivated movement and resorting to all the basic and honest direct arguments to get 99+% turnout efficiency and 50%+1 of votes in two years.  It is going to take a war of attrition with the opposition.  A high price, but victory means the opposition loses all hope of prevailing nationally.


by killjoy on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 08:59:01 PM EST

Don't just repeal. (none / 0)

COUNTERATTACK.

Equal rights amendment, proposition reform, then after that has passed 2/3 majority to change the constitution.

observeth


by neutron on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:14:27 PM EST

Re: Don't just repeal. (none / 0)

I am thinking of moving back to CA. I would love it if they got rid of the prop system. It really does make a mess of government out there.


by bruh3 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:34:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (2.00 / 1)

I saw some info that voter turnout in SF was lower than the state average this time.  If so, then Gavin needs to check what the heck his GOTV folks were doing.  Methinks he took his eye off the ball cause he was looking to run for Gov in 2010.  Villaraigosa (sp) whipped his ass in turnout percentages.


by Demo Dan in Dayton on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:15:12 PM EST

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (2.00 / 1)

That would have been the responsiblity of No on 8. Their GOTV was to preach to the choir and not bother to register gays. Here are the stats I know:

/2 of voting age gays in CA aren't even registered to vote

1/3 of registered gay voters didn't even vote

Prop 8 is ahead by 400,000 votes 4% and just the non voting registered  

Gays in CA would have equaled another 7% and we would be ahead by 3% unregistered gay voters in California would have given us 10% more = 6% ahead

Registered gays CA who didn't vote + unregstered ca gays

There are at least 1 million gays in CA. Only about 30,000 donated to No on 8. Most did not volunteer. There are also anecdotal story I've read along the same lines.

I can't be certain if this is correct.


by bruh3 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

I've read some of what you have here also.  As a gay man who has tried to interest the brethern in voting in the past,ehhh, not so good.  Maybe this was the wakeup call that we needed.  Hate to say it.


by Demo Dan in Dayton on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 10:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (2.00 / 1)

While the loss margin might represent a number of LGBT non-voters out there in theory, it is simply not a good idea for minorities to rely upon themselves for civil rights advances - there needs to be a far broader base of people who aren't directly affected but acknowledge that majority rule must have its limits.

Frankly I can't stop thinking about 8 passing and it has no direct or even indirect bearing on my life as a heterosexual without gay friends or relatives interested in being married (I do have both G/L friends and relatives in my life but they have no interest in getting married).  Yes, the LBGT community must be out in force but so do the rest of us that understand what is fair and just.


by cthulhu on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 03:19:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

If the numbers are right, there is no theory about the fact that there is gay apathy . That's the reason i posted this number. I don't see how the fact is true reflects on anything else other than the thing itself, namely, again gay apathy.


by bruh3 on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 05:42:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

one way the early landslide hurt us (none / 0)

might have been depressing the CA vote turnout.

here are the county-by-county numbers:
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/status.ht m


by chiefscribe on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 01:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

The Republicans convincing themselves that the reason they lost in 08 was because they weren't conservative enough is great for Democrats.

Even better if they decide that Palin, who every none-wingnut republican knows was a drag on the ticket is the future.


by liberalj on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 10:07:14 PM EST

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

Dosen't California still have Domestic partnerships? Unfortunetly Here In Florida we now have no options avlaiable to us Civl Unions,Marriage or Domestic partnership its all been taken off the table. I realize to most its dosen't matter but it does it really does.So do be grateful you still have something Here any hope was taken away by christian Bigots White,Black and Brown and talking to them  dosen't work sorry have tried and it taught me I wasn't welcome. So this election has been bittersweet Proud for my Country not so much with the Democratic Party I'm in it sorta stings!


by tpagy on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 10:26:52 PM EST

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

I am black, in addition, to being gay. I know wit the whole scapegoating of the last few days that this is impossibility- black and gay. But I digress. We call what you just wrote the "house slave mentality." "Be grate master only hit you once." "You keep stirring up trouble you gonna get lynched." Slowed down the black civil rights movement for decades.


by bruh3 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 10:34:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

GO GAVIN!!!

http://www.noonprop8.com/events

Protests from the No on 8 Website

Friday, November 7

San Francisco
5:30 pm. | Civic Center (Market/7th) to Dolores Park.

Mission Viejo
4 to 7 p.m. | 200 Civic Center

Palm Springs
5:00 p.m. | Palm Springs City Hall

Long Beach
6:45 p.m. to 9:00 p.m., | Broadway and Redondo.

Santa Barbara
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. | De La Guerra Plaza Street
700-756 De La Guerra Plaza.

San Diego
9 p.m. | Laurel & Sixth Avenue
March to City Hall (202 C)

Saturday November 8

San Diego
12 Noon | 1st Avenue & University
March to 30th Street & University Avenue in North Park.

Laguna Beach,
5:30 p.m. | City Hall
March to Main Beach for candlelight vigil.
Parking available at Act V parking lot at 1900 Laguna Canyon Road Shuttle busses will be running every 15 minutes. Bring signs, flags, candles (or flashlights), whistles, and dress for a cool evening.

Los Angeles
6 p.m. | Sunset Junction in Silver Lake
Sunset Blvd and Santa Monica Blvd

Sunday, November 9

Sacramento, California.
1 p.m. to 4 p.m. | Capitol West Steps

San Jose
2 p.m. | Billy DeFrank LGBT Community Center
938 The Alameda
Questions? gloria.defrank@gmail.com

GAVIN FOR GOVERNOR 2012


by nikkid on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 11:12:09 PM EST

Re: Salt Lake City Protest (video) (none / 0)

2,000 - 5,000 estimated crowd.

I. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i52JL5_N- XE

II. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdWsJcteW 4Q

III. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02P3g3L9m -Q

IV. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXFX9abHy Ns

V. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgmXHXLu0 s8

Why can't the Courage Campaign run the next initiative battle?  From what I've seen, they put out the best ads and seem to be the smartest people in the room.


twitter.com/ChinoBlanco | youtube.com/ChinoBlanco
by Chino Blanco on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 02:53:53 AM EST

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

Listen, protests aren't only happening in CA.  When I checked in to a hotel in Vegas Monday night, the clerk, seeing my No on Prop 8 button, said that a protest was already planned at UNLV against the some LDS facility there if Prop 8 passed.  I just tried searching for it.  Didn't find it but found a different protest happening in Salt Lake City.  

To some degree I feel sorry for the Church of LDS.  Yes, they bankrolled a plurality of funds for Yes on 8 but the other churches they aligned themselves with also don't care much for them and now the Church of LDS seems to be taking the entirety of the backlash.  Maybe they will rethink being the vanguard next time.  So in this regard, the protests may be effective.


by cthulhu on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 03:06:25 AM EST

let's overturn it instead. (none / 0)

For now, let's help

http://nclrights.org
http://eqca.org  
http://lambdalegal.org &
http://www.aclunc.org

by donating to help with their petition for writ of mandate (requesting that the Supreme Court bar enforcement of Prop 8, because it's a revision to the constitution taking away fundamental rights from a suspect class of people).

If the Court rules favorably and says it's a revision, the right-wing haters can't ever try this kind of thing again, because precedent says that they must go through the process for revisions to the constitution (2/3 vote of legislature, among other things--ain't gonna happen!).  
 


by chiefscribe on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 01:29:12 PM EST

Re: Repeal Prop 8: Turning Passion Into Action (none / 0)

Thanks for the diary, Todd,

I just joined the courage campaign!!

We don't stop the struggle, until we win equal rights for all!


by borlov on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 03:34:23 PM EST


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