MyDD :: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One

How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One

by Todd Beeton, Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 12:41:44 PM EST

I've been open about my support for President-elect Obama's selection of Hillary Clinton as secretary of state but that's not to say I don't see the downsides. There have been some compelling arguments against the pick but after reading up on the various pros and cons, I've come to the conclusion that, in fact, it will prove to be an excellent decision on Barack Obama's part.

How do I know?

Well, cuz these guys think it's a horrible decision:

David Broder:

It may be moot and it certainly is presumptuous, but I would be less than honest with readers if I did not say what I believe: Making Hillary Rodham Clinton the secretary of state in Barack Obama's administration would be a mistake. [...]

Clinton is the wrong person for that job in this administration. It's not the best use of her talents, and it's certainly not the best fit for this new president.

What Obama needs in the person running the State Department is a diplomat who will carry out his foreign policy. He does not need someone who will tell him how to approach the world or be his mentor in international relations.

Tom Friedman:

I covered a secretary of state, one of the best, James A. Baker III, for four years, and one of the things I learned during those years was that what made Baker an effective diplomat was not only his own skills as a negotiator -- a prerequisite for the job -- but the fact that his boss, President George H.W. Bush, always had Baker's back. When foreign leaders spoke with Baker, they knew that they were speaking to President Bush, and they knew that President Bush would defend Baker from domestic rivals and the machinations of foreign governments.

That backing is the most important requirement for a secretary of state to be effective. Frankly, Obama could appoint his dear mother-in-law as secretary of state, and if he let the world know she was his envoy, she would be more effective than any ex-ambassador who had no relationship with the president. [...]

My question is whether a President Obama and a Secretary of State Clinton, given all that has gone down between them and their staffs, can have that kind of relationship, particularly with Mrs. Clinton always thinking four to eight years ahead, and the possibility that she may run again for the presidency. I just don't know.

What else can I conclude from their opposition to the pick than the extreme likelihood that Hillary Clinton's stint as secretary of state is going to be a very successful one? I mean, when was the last time these guys were right about anything?

Tags: hillary clinton, barack obama, secretary of state (all tags)

Permalink :: 27 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 2)

Barack & Hillary are on the same page when it comes to foreign policy, including on Iran.

And to answer Rachel Maddow's question, it IS change you can believe in.

As it shows Obama is making good on his promise not to appoint yes-men, but whoever he thinks would be good for the job.

With Kerry as the new head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Clinton will have to work with Kerry.
Dear Rachel, we really moved on from the primaries.
When Barack said Change he meant change from the last 8 years, and a return to the glorious 90's

by rolnitzky on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 12:53:38 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

Nobody thinks that Clinton will be good at foreign policy except those people who believe that Clinton is the best at everything.

Which position wouldn't her supporters think her to be brilliant in?

"When Barack said Change he meant change from the last 8 years, and a return to the glorious 90's"

No, a return to the 90s is what Hillary represented, and what her supporters wanted.

If Obama meant a return to the "glorious" 90s when he was talking about change then Obama should have conceded to Hillary and never been a presidential candidate at all.

by Aris Katsaris2 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 3)

"Nobody thinks that Clinton will be good at foreign policy except those people who believe that Clinton is the best at everything."

Most everybody agrees that she would be very good in the role as the chief diplomat, domestically and internationally. The ones who claim that "nobody thinks Clinton will be good" are dead wrong, which makes one wonder about the motives behind these comments.

by devilrays on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

This is a very weak argument. First, as an independent voter, I am leery of any Democrat who quotes a Republican to strengthen his or her position within a partisan issue. Second, its impossible to prove anything about a statement, true or false -by bringing in talking heads. This is a news media entertainment model, not a dialogue where the issues are at stake.

Sec. of State will require the undoing of years of damage by the Bush administration, and the appointment of a person whose ties to lobbies, and support of the war - are well known - is anathema. The idea that HRC and Obama are on the same page, regarding the resolution of the war - is a far cry from the appointment of a person whose job it is, to prevent war.

Try to remember that moment during the debates when Hillary tried to tag the Iranian National Guard as a terrorist organization - a little republican sideshow she wholly participated in. Even then, Obama was not on the same page as she was - and I did not vote for an administration that would endorse Clintons worldview - I voted for an administration that would endorse Obama's.

No. I'm sorry. The argument here is specious at best. "I'm for Hillary because anti-Hillary people are against her!"

:-b pffffftt!!

by Trey Rentz on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Revisionist History (none / 0)

Obama did not equate change with a return to the glorious nineties during most of 2008 (i.e. during the primaries).

Clinton isn't a natural diplomat; yet I am glad she is leaving the Senate.

This is perhaps part of a Unity Government to deal with the Great Tribulation ahead.

by Paul Goodman on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True. n/t (2.00 / 1)

by Bob Sackamento on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:02:57 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 2)

You know it's a good fit because all the Clinton haters are apoplectic. Anything that causes a Clinton hater to foam at the mouth is a good thing. Always.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:07:06 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

Yes, it's almost as if these Clinton-hating fools think that it was Obama that got the Democratic nomination and that it was Obama who was elected president. When will they stop denying reality and understand that the primaries over and Clinton was the one who was chosen by the people?

Fine, same old Clintonian presidency. I'll be preparing for the Balkans to start bleeding again.

And yes, I'm unapologetic for my hatred of the Clintons' foreign policy. Genocide in Bosnia, genocide in Rwanda, their glorious legacy -- and intervening in Kosovo (with much less justification than in Bosnia or Rwanda where they either didn't intervene, or intervened too late) only to distract from Monica Lewinski.

Oh, yeah, and they also appointed George Tenet, the glorious bringer of Iraq's CIA intelligence to Bush.

The Clintons suck at foreign policy. They suck VERY hard. And if Obama trusts them in foreign policy, he's a bloody fool.

by Aris Katsaris2 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:13:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 2)

Well, at least I didn't have to wait long for an example of the foaming at the mouth I spoke of.

War for Lewinski. Yeah, the right wing doesn't have a lock on crazy, proof positive.

Enjoy the rest of your day. By the way, yes, Obama won, the nomination , the Presidency, and with it the RIGHT to choose his own SOS (I voted for him to have that right).

I'd much rather prefer Hillary do something else, but if Obama chooses her and she accepts why does it cause you such chagrin? Because you can't stand the fact that he doesn't harbor the hatred for Clinton that you harbor. Deal with it.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

"with it the RIGHT to choose his own SOS (I voted for him to have that right). "

I wonder if you'll be also supporting Obama's right to fire his own SOS, if Hillary ends up to his dislike. Or will it be causing you "chagrin" then?

"Because you can't stand the fact that he doesn't harbor the hatred for Clinton that you harbor"

I don't want him to harbor hatred. I want him to harbor mistrust. If Obama thinks Clinton is gonna play second-fiddle and not attempt to subvert his policies, he's naive.

One explanation I've heard is that she's merely gonna cause him less problems as SOS than as a Senator. I hope that's his own reasoning too (better than to think he trusts her), but still it means letting foreign policy get screwed to leave him an easier job in domestic matters. That may fit with the idea that Obama plans to focus on domestic issues first, like healthcare.

Perhaps he'll be wise and fire Clinton once he wants to actually achieve anything that's foreign-policy related

by Aris Katsaris2 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know that Hillary (2.00 / 1)

was really the one making those decisions. Plus, everyone has said they regret Rwanda. I think people who learn from their errors are less likely to make similar ones in the future.

by JJE on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What? (2.00 / 2)

Since when did Bill Clinton become Obama's SOS pick? What happened to Hillary?

by ProfessorReo on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 1)

How exactly did Clinton cause genocide in those places. Clinton ENDED Genocide in Bosnia.

by Mayor McCheese on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 04:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

Good lord. For the Kosovo intervention occured well after the impeachment was over and Lewinsky became irrelevant.

by Mayor McCheese on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 04:31:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

I don't know.

I thought it was a good idea at first.

Now that it's been dragging out for a week, I'm thinking: "Shit. This is a marriage neither one has the guts to back out of."

Like a distant relative at the wedding, I wish the two kids the best, but I think they got hard times ahead.

by Bush Bites on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:17:37 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

I'm in your camp. At first, I was like 'Hmm, that's a good, shrewd move'. Then I keep hearing things like *"the Clinton camp is in negotiations with President-Elect Obama's people" *
Hillary, enough already. Nobody should be 'negotiations' for SoS. Either you can stomach a job where you serve at the whim of the guy who beat you , or you can't.

A PROUD Hopium user!

by xodus1914 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:37:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 2)

"Hillary, enough already"? What does that mean?

Has there been an ex-first lady to be nominated as SoS? Has there been a person who came this close to the Democratic nomination to be nominated as SoS?

Hillary stands apart from other nominees, past or present. Therefore, you can't expect that the process will be anything but extraordinary. In such unusual circumstances, negotiations aren't necessarily a bad thing. It's naive to think it's about "stomaching" anything.

by Sieglinde on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

"Hillary stands apart from other nominees, past or present. Therefore, you can't expect that the process will be anything but extraordinary. In such unusual circumstances, negotiations aren't necessarily a bad thing. It's naive to think it's about "stomaching" anything."

QFT!

by viperlmw on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

Well Tom Friedman often does have good observations and this one about the SOS, I thought was particuarly poignant.

Whether you like the messenger or not is so so relevant as the message.

It would be better for the site is the key diarists did not make vaccuous posts. One comes to these sites because we expect intelligence from the core and we can forgive some degree of irrational postings from the readers (such as emsprater)

By the way I am sort of neutral on the Hillary for SOS position

by dbeall on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:18:31 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

The issue of Hillary and the SoS has been talked about in many posts in MyDD, including significant front-page attention.

This post is but one of many. I think it's a valid point to evaluate the messenger too. You're naive to not consider the messenger when it comes to talking about politics.

by Sieglinde on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

Yeah it's not as if it's one of the most important positions possible, and we should be considering it carefully. Let us just appoint whomever pisses the other side most.

You didn't refute these people's argument. You merely mocked them.

Some people confuse the two concepts, mockery and refutation.

by Aris Katsaris2 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:22:26 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

I know its a good pick because Hillary Clinton is

AWESOME!!!

by Scan on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:28:27 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

This is the more honest version of the entire blog post here - its basically the same thing as what was written, only concise and to the point.

I can buy this argument. But the big round about "she's cool because the bad guys think she's uncool" is not quite working for me.

by Trey Rentz on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 03:31:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 1)

I think you're right, because Broder and Friedman are the dickiest of dicks. I mean seriously, people still listen to Friedman after he's been wrong all this time--AND HE IS REPONSIBLE FOR A LOT OF THE OFFSHORING OF OUR JOBS. At best he's an idiot. At worse, he's a traitor and needs to be tarred and feathered. And Broder, he's just a dick.

by johnrarch on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 01:32:44 PM EST

Re: Clinton Pick Is A Good One (2.00 / 4)

Todd could not be more correct. The MSM is having more than a few conniption fits over Hillary as Secretary of State.

That is why they are desperately trying to steer her back into Senate oblivion--"Why, Senate Democrats will offer you something fairly decent, honest, Hillary, you really don't want to be in the world spotlight, now do you?"

As if, all of her own and her husband's two week-long vetting were merely a routine exercise. And as if, the lady who officially won more primary votes than any other presidential candidate in history, is not entitled to a unique place in President-elect Obama's administration.

In my fifty-five years, I have never witnessed a media more against any other contemporary President and First Lady.

The MSM adored Ronald Reagan, even at the height of Iran-Contra, and even when it was quite evident that he was sadly suffering from Alzheimer's and should not have remained Chief Executive.

The MSM adored the Junior Bush; he was "folksy" and "manly," even when the rest of the country and the world knew he was supremely unqualified and would, inevitably, leave the United States in shambles--which time has proven to be glaringly evident.

But oh, the MSM has always loathed Bill and Hillary. The couple who presided over the longest peacetime expansion in United States history; whom almost eveybody else in the world adores (save those inveterate Right-wingers and perhaps some equally inveterate bloggers) is yet the MSM's public enemies #1 and #2.

President-elect Obama makes a daring move to surround himself with the best and the brightest--past primary wars be damned--and the MSM is having apoplexy fits because, those public enemies will again be front and center on the world stage.

And it's not that Bill's Global Initiative hasn't already secured international roles for himself and Hillary for all of the forseeable future. But now, an official Secretary of State role for Hillary? Why, members of the MSM may end up hospital-bound after their post Thanksgiving conniptions.

Give Broder and company some well-deserved early heart attacks, President-elect Obama! Good riddance to these too long powerful, too long out-of-date set of anti-Clinton talking heads.

Give it to the MSM, but good, President-elect Obama. We Clintonites are loving you more each day!

by lambros on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:07:24 PM EST

BREAKING NEWS (none / 0)

The red headline on the New York Times website:

"Breaking News 2:41 PM ET: Clinton to Accept Secretary of State Nomination, Confidants Say"

by Sieglinde on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:45:57 PM EST

Re: How I Know The Clinton Pick Is A Good One (none / 0)

yep, its what convinced me too.

by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 04:07:43 PM EST

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