Post-Debate Thread

A few initial impressions. First, and most important, John McCain failed to make the most of this opportunity -- one of his last -- to fundamentally change the direction of this race. Nothing, and I mean nothing, occurred tonight that will put McCain back in the driver's seat of this campaign, let alone help him retake a lead.

Beyond that, McCain had some serious optics problems during the debate. McCain's lurking in the background was truly Cheney-esque, and that's just not a good likeness for the GOP nominee. And McCain's extreme derisiveness towards Barack Obama, unwilling to call him by name, instead only calling him "that one," seriously undercuts the notion that McCain can be a cool operator on the world stage. Note also that Obama's jokes did connect with the audience -- he got a nice chuckle towards the end of the debate when he said that Michelle could easily list all of the things he doesn't know -- while the only laugh McCain earned during all of his botched jokes over the course of the debate was from Tom Brokaw.

As for memorable exchanges, Obama speaking about his mother stands out in particular, though this retort to McCain, which Josh caught, was highly effective as well.

Again, a marginal win for Obama, or perhaps a draw -- either of which represents a loss for McCain considering that the window to change the direction of this race is closing. What did you think?

Update [2008-10-7 22:41:40 by Todd Beeton]:And McCain's most shameful moment of the debate:

Even Wolf Blitzer said it was obvious that John McCain has "disdain" for Barack Obama.

Update [2008-10-7 22:45:46 by Josh Orton]: From the Obama campaign:

“Barack Obama won a resounding victory in John McCain’s favorite debate format because he made the case for change that will rebuild the middle class. The American people asked tough questions tonight, and only Barack Obama was is in touch with their struggles and offered clear and passionate answers about creating jobs, reducing health care costs, cutting taxes for 95% of working families, and responsibly ending the war in Iraq. John McCain was all over the map on the issues, and he is so angry about the state of his campaign that he referred to Barack Obama as ‘that one’ – last time he couldn’t look at Senator Obama, this time he couldn’t say his name. The McCain campaign said, ‘if we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose,’ and John McCain definitely lost tonight,” said Obama-Biden campaign manager David Plouffe.

Update [2008-10-7 22:48:12 by Todd Beeton]:Rachel Maddow: "I think Barack Obama won by virtue of the fact that he conducted himself as though John McCain wasn;t there."

Update [2008-10-7 22:53:6 by Jonathan Singer]: Per Norah O'Donnell, Barack Obama won the NBC News undecided focus group about 60-40.

Update [2008-10-7 22:53:6 by Jonathan Singer]: Obama narrowly won the CNN undecided focus group as well.

Update [2008-10-7 22:59:17 by Jonathan Singer]: More actual results... CBS polling of undecided voters gave Obama the win by a 39 percent to 27 percent margin, with another 35 percent rating the debate a tie. Another wasted opportunity for the McCain campaign.

Update [2008-10-7 23:8:6 by Jonathan Singer]: GQR focus group of undecideds split 42 percent for Obama at the end versus 24 percent for McCain.



Display:


A draw? (2.00 / 3)

What?  

OK, I had to be watching some other debate, Johnathan then you...


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by WashStateBlue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:37:39 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I thought McCain was much sharper at the last debate, but maybe all that wandering around on stage made him lose his train of thought.
That was aggravating.
Anyway, he got better at the end, but there's nothing new about his lines, so I'd say Obama won slightly.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:37:51 PM EST

Marginal Win? whaaaaaaat! (none / 0)

Even Bill Kristol is saying McCain was lackluster.  


by Homebrewer on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:40:00 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Looking at MSNBC's post debate coverage, some of those "undecided voters" sure look thrilled at having their picture taken w/ Obama. :D


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:41:04 PM EST

McCain seemed Manic (none / 0)

Obama killed him on tone...

He was all over the map....

Of course, I am usually wrong about these things...


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by WashStateBlue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:41:20 PM EST

I would say a tie (none / 0)

so, correcting based on last time, Obama won.

We woefully underscored him during the 1st debate.


by Neef on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:42:08 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

He was troll-like tonight.  


by ProfessorReo on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:43:57 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Obama.... by a lot.

I didn't think that was close - I thought Obama came off much stronger.  Hey - perhaps I'm overly influenced by the CNN insta-tracker, but I thought Obama won this one easily.

McCain didn't so much lose (though I thought he was off, even for grumpy John) - Obama was just flat out better.

This was a very plus debate for Obama.  He's never gonna be Bill Clinton, but he doesn't need to be.


by zonk on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:43:58 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

McCain, not Obama.  


by ProfessorReo on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:44:07 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Why are the cameras only following Obama and Michelle- did McCain leave or something?


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:44:25 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Yes... he's gone!


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Did anyone notice that on CNN after the debate, Obama offered his hand to McCain, and McCain didn't take it?


by Memekiller on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:44:51 PM EST

McCain is not a gracious loser... (2.00 / 1)


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by WashStateBlue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain wears his emotions on his sleeves... (none / 0)

Not a good thing when you are negotiating with the enemy....

One guy looked like the CIC tonight.

And, it wasn't the old soldier.


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by WashStateBlue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:48:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

TPM's on it --

They're gonna have the video shortly - say it's difficult to tell, but definitely open for interpretation.

Frankly, McCain can act like a sore loser all he wants.  I couldn't care less whether he's sore or not, so long as he's the loser.


by zonk on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

The one concern I have coming out of this debate is McCain's homeowner bailout plan.  it seems to be getting all the media attention now.

Other than that a narrow win for Obama.  He's gotten a lot better at debating.  Maybe all those debates during the primaries paid off.


by esconded on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:46:16 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama needs to (and should) spin this as McCain taking up his position. That was, after all, one of Obama's bailout principles. He should frame it right off as McCain following his lead.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 01:02:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I think McCain's "that one" reference to Obama belied his overuse of the phrase "my friends", so he lost out on both the respectful and genuine scales.

McCain referring to health care as a "privilege" verses Obama's "it's a right" guaranteed he didn't connect with 95% of the country while Obama did.

Obama will be our next president, I'm quite sure.


by phoenixdreamz on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:48:18 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I thought Obama won.. He got stronger as the debate went on.. he started a bit flat.. His strong suit- again in my opinion- was foreign policy..his bit about killing Bin Laden, about "I don't understand...", and his answer on health care being a right... those were the home runs..

I think McCain continues to make mistakes on issues like Pakistan....

I cannot imagine this being a gamechanger.. if anything it should help Obama cement or even build his lead..

The best moment by far was his answer about going after Bin Laden... imho


by obama4presidente on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:53:24 PM EST

One catch (none / 0)

I will be a contrarian, but McCain threw out this buying  bad mortgage idea (which really is Hillary Clinton idea). Now, it makes sense and somehow Obama has to work it in in his plan.


by ann0nymous on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:53:55 PM EST

is he trying to create another wedge (none / 0)

between the two?  I don't thinK Obama is opposed to her plan, he just hasn't given a position.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, but he needs to take a position (none / 0)


by ann0nymous on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

if you wanna update

Obama won the Fox focus group also


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:56:54 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

My personal evaluation is that people will tend to think their guy won. No huge knock-outs. Obama seemed to play with the lead, McCain couldn't catch up.

As for "that one", I immediately sat up when he said it and even my Republican roommate gave a quizzical look over his reading material. It probably won't resonate until November. My mind, for some reason, immediately went to Bob Kelso from Scrubs:

12-10-3 Obama-McCain-tie on CNN's focus group, with criticisms for lack of specifics.

I think that the biggest problem is that we've seen these guys so much over the last year that hearing what is essentially repetition and slight elaboration on their stump speeches sounds hollow. Advantage Obama in that case, but it'll be a tepid victory by a large margin.


by TCQuad on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:58:40 PM EST

I almost wanna go over to (none / 0)

freeper or NQ or somewhere similar and hear all the conspiracy theories about all the -quote - undecided voters - quote -  who are now taking pictures with and getting autographs from Obama.


by zonk on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:58:57 PM EST

CBS Scientific Poll (none / 0)

Very few minds were changed, so the debate seems to be a wash. Favorable ratings went up for both candidates. A lot of questions are being asked about McCain's proposal for the Government to buy up failing mortgages.

A significant plurarilty of the voters said that Obama won the debate.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:59:12 PM EST

If few minds were changed.... (none / 0)

Then Axelrod is popping the champagne....


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by WashStateBlue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I Agree (none / 0)

But McCain has thrown a long bomb with his big government program to buy up "toxic" mortgages. We'll have to see how that plays out in the next few days. McCain the bold one or McCain the desperate erratic one?


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree (none / 0)

Well he pissed off his base with that so that's something ;)


But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.
by thezzyzx on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 07:06:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

CNN Poll Obama Clear Winner (none / 0)

So that's good news. In CNN's poll, McCain's favorable stayed the same, but Obama's went up. The "That One" comment hurt McCain.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:08:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

26 days to go... (none / 0)

Lots of repetition because almost all of the questions were standard town hall questions.  No real curve balls.  McCain's attacks of Obama positions were entirely predictable.

Obama wins because his answers to these standard questions are better than McCain's.  Both did a little better than the first debate - and the difference between the two was about the same too.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:00:52 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama is now over 70% on Intrade... if he stays there, no candidate in the history of Intrade has ever lost after reaching 70%...

I'm still going to work as hard as I can, 'cos I'm a democrat and I still think we might lose! ;-)


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:04:17 PM EST

Obama won (2.00 / 1)

focus group on MSNBC thought so too, roughly 60-40.

Obama comes off as cool, intelligent, and with policies far superior to McCains.

I must also say in this debate Obama did a much better job of conveying real empathy and concern for average voters.  He finally sounds like he really cares about what happens to people, something he no doubt has felt all along, but hasn't been comfortable expressing.

He also did a better job of explaining how tax cuts for the wealthy were a bad idea for the economy.

Keep it up, Obama.  Show that compassion. Explain how we knew those tax cuts for the wealthy were going to screw up the economy many, many years ago.  And keep finding ways to give past Democratic administrations credit for managing the economy instead of destroying it.


by Betsy McCall on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:06:07 PM EST

"That One" (none / 0)

Really hurt McCain in this debate. Also, Obama was able to prioritize, while McCain couldn't.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:10:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama won (none / 0)

Exactly. I really thought McCain was acting in a very creepy manner. It made it hard to listen to him.  McCain was lucky for this format. Obama really had the answers and ideas and McCain was throwing out BS. Given the opportunity Obama would have ended McCain's campaign tonight. He probably did anyway. McCain does not have the temperment to be President. Clearly.


by Jeter on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:14:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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