MyDD :: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness

More Post-Debate Thready Goodness

by Todd Beeton, Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:42:26 PM EST

OK, I'm watching FoxNews and the "text your vote" poll says that 86% felt Sarah Palin won and 12% felt Joe Biden won. If that doesn't say everything you need to know about how out of the mainstream conservatives are I don't know what does.

What else you got?

Update [2008-10-2 23:48:29 by Todd Beeton]:Wow. Joe Lieberman on Fox News, selling his soul:

She hit it out of the ballpark. She proved that she is ready to be John McCain's Vice President. She was strong, she was competent, she was informed, she was very genuine. She was humorous.

Wow. That's the former Democratic Vice Presidential nominee ladies and gentlemen. Oh, here's more:

"There was a magic moment tonight when she said "Say it ain't so, Joe."..She and John McCain are the ticket for the future and Obama and Biden are looking back."

Update [2008-10-3 0:1:9 by Todd Beeton]:Joe Biden: on message:

Update [2008-10-3 0:4:11 by Todd Beeton]:Howard Fineman just likened Sarah Palin to a "wolverine chewing through plywood."

Update [2008-10-3 0:7:38 by Todd Beeton]:A tidbit from the CBS snap poll: Among their pool of uncommitted voters, after the debate 18% switched to Obama, just 10% switched to McCain. 71% remain uncommitted.

Update [2008-10-3 0:10:29 by Todd Beeton]:Chris Matthews: "Did we learn anything about Sarah Palin than her ability to recite?"

Update [2008-10-3 0:15:5 by Todd Beeton]:Roger Simon is seriously raving about Palin's performance tonight. It's really pathetic. Chris Matthews is trying to bring him back to earth but he's not having it.

Tags: vp debate (all tags)

Permalink :: 75 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Help me out here: what did the commanding general in Afghanistan REALLY say?

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:46:08 PM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 2)

That he doesn't believe a "surge" is a correct strategy--that he thinks the situation calls for a more sustained commitment:

[Afghanistan] has very harsh geography. It's very difficult to move around, getting back to our reliance on helicopters. It's a country with very few natural resources, as opposed to the oil revenues that [Iraq] has. There's very little money to be generated in terms of generated in Afghanistan. The literacy rate - you have a literate society in Iraq, you have a society that has a history of producing civil administrators, technocrats, middle class that are able to run the country in Iraq. You do not have that in Afghanistan. So there are a lot of challenges. What I don't think is needed - the word that I don't use in Afghanistan is the word 'surge.' There needs to be a sustained commitment of a variety of military and non-military resources, I believe.

by Jay R on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:55:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

That's pretty clear. Once everyone does their fact-checking tomorrow that's an issue where the McCain/Palin ticket is going to look very bad.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:00:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

She also got his name wrong - she said GEN. MCCLELLAN when its McKiernan.

I am Dyslexic, it is a battle (which I often lose) to write without error. Thanks in advance for putting up with my mistakes

by jmorton on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:41:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Well, I will leave it to others to get all outraged about that. I was more interested in the substance.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:44:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Marc Ambinder

According to sources, in the official Democratic dial groups, Palin's lowest jag came when she said that Obama's plan raised the white flag of surrender....Sen. Biden was fairly even all evening, with a high spike when he talked about his single parenting... Palin had more high spikes and low spikes.

by RandyMI on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:48:15 PM EST

Did anyone else notice (none / 0)

the Frank Lunz group, for once, seemed totally out of sync with every other network's groups of independent voters? It was overwhelmingly in favor of Palin, both after and during the debate. He usually seems to have similar results. This really seemed clearly like a loaded deck. And, they are not showing any national polls besides their texting thing.

by IowaMike on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:49:45 PM EST

Re: Did anyone else notice (2.00 / 1)

Hmmm, I wonder if the Fox execs showed him the rolled-up newspaper after his 1st debate focus group came out so strongly for Obama?

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:24:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 4)

You have to understand where Lieberman is coming from. He's watching his political career disappear before his eyes, as the McCain-Palin campaign goes down the drain. Desperation makes people see strange things.

by rfahey22 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:55:45 PM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, you're right. We could make a sad list of the people who bet their entire reputation on Barack Obama losing this election by a huge margin.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

A sad and long list, eh?

by Shaun Appleby on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:14:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Be nice

;-)

A PROUD Hopium user!

by xodus1914 on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unity the Unicorn sez: (none / 0)

Making lists of sad people is not helpful. Instead, make lists of happy people!

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 1)

It's easy to find that list all in one place - just go to the blog links on Alegre's Corner. -rimshot-

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 03:34:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 1)

ayuh, Lieberman is all in now, he will likely be kicked from the Dem Caucus next congress, and has to face a president who won't be too inclined to do him any favors. Pair that with what will surely be a very difficult re-election bid next time he is up.. we may be seeing the end of Joe in the foreseeable future.

by notedgeways on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:06:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re LIEberman (2.00 / 2)

Things that make me smile. He loses his seniority and his committee chair. Even if he switches to Republican, he's back to being a junior member.

That One is the Right One for 2008.

by GFORD on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:25:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re LIEberman (2.00 / 2)

The Republicans may toss him a nice committee assignment for switching. After all, they may feel the need to filibuster a LOT of stuff.

If that happens, I predict he will retire in 2012 rather than run in CT as a Republican. There must be a whole lot of moderate Dems in CT experiencing industrial grade buyer's remorse over their 2006 votes.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:32:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re LIEberman (2.00 / 1)

I don't see him dropping his "Independent" affiliation. I don't think he could win a race without splitting the D/R vote.

by notedgeways on Sat Oct 04, 2008 at 06:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re LIEberman (none / 0)

I don't see him dropping his "Independent" affiliation. I don't think he could win a race without splitting the D/R vote.

by notedgeways on Sat Oct 04, 2008 at 06:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re LIEberman (2.00 / 1)

In 2012, he will be 70 years old. If he really loses his committee assignments (never underestimate the Dem capacity to reward perfidy), he will have a decision. Run again as an independent in 2012 so he can extend his upcoming 4 years in obscurity to 12. Or take a deal from the Repubs to be ranking member of, say, armed services for 4 years, and then retire.

I do not know which he would choose, but it is not a no-brainer choice. There are + and - either way IMHO.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Sat Oct 04, 2008 at 10:41:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think he loses ranking member status when (none / 0)

he switches parties. I thought years of membership in the party and in the Senate was what determined rank.

But I could be wrong.

That One is the Right One for 2008.

by GFORD on Sun Oct 05, 2008 at 01:55:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are probably right (none / 0)

as far as the tradition goes. But I doubt it is written in the Senate rules or anything. The Minority Leader (probably Mitch McConnell, unless he loses his reelection) would probably have to get permission from whoever is in line for the job to avoid intraparty unpleasantness. That means a cascade of horse trading and favors to make it happen. If McCain comes back from behind to win the WH, such a deal would be very possible, because lets face it, McCain owes Joementum a lot of favors, and would need all the loyal Congressional allies he could get. If McCain loses, the possibilities narrow a lot, because even though McCain still owes him, McCain's political capital will be less than zero.

But I am probably all wet.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Sun Oct 05, 2008 at 05:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 2)

He was already persona non gratis, but he just finished the transition to Joe Lieberman (r)

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:11:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Persona no gratis? (none / 0)

A person who is not free?? I think you mean Persona non grata. I'll give partial credit for a leaner. At least you attempted the Latin.

Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven? Not yet. We're still in Purgatory.

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:19:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Well if he's watching his political career go down the toilet,as it should, then you would think that he would at least have his eyes wide open and keep his trap shut.With that statement he just brought his career a whole lot closer to the finish line and the hole he keeps digging for himself might just strike oil soon.AND if he actually believes what he said,then he's delusional.
Either way a piece of shit.

by Lodgemannered on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 05:27:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 1)

One correction to your comments: Joe Lieberman doesn't have a soul to sell.

by royce on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:57:13 PM EST

Lie-berman sold his soul (none / 0)

long ago.

Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven? Not yet. We're still in Purgatory.

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:16:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lie-berman sold his soul (2.00 / 1)

I believe the sale was finalized in late Nov or early Dec 2000, when as the Dem VP candidate, he began actively promoting the counting of military votes that were clearly cast after election day.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:37:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

man, this place is dead

fox news online poll says biden won 58-42%
http://elections.foxnews.com/

by tomanderson13 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:57:33 PM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Ha! But online polls aren't even reliable enough for American Idol to use.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll admit it (none / 0)

I like Palin; I thought she was adorable.

It looked even to me, which may work in our favor since we are leading by 5-8 points. I hope the media doesn't focus on the sighs.

by Blazers Edge on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:04:12 AM EST

Re: I'll admit it (none / 0)

She was winking at YOU, my friend. You know she was.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:05:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I suppose she wasn't ever (none / 0)

going after HRC's voters eh? She was going after the meathead contingent.

by Blazers Edge on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:08:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose she wasn't ever (none / 0)

There is a hardcore PUMA in my office, an older female professional, who is voting for Obama now because Palin just freaks her out that much. I honestly couldn't believe it when she told me.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:10:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll admit it (2.00 / 2)

Eeeeewwwwww. Gotta wonder about your taste. I thought the "folksy" stuff came of like a Hee-Haw skit. Both fake AND dumb.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:10:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, it's probably (none / 0)

because she's pretty different from most of the women in my life (there are a lot of them despite the amount of time I spend on this blog).

by Blazers Edge on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:12:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, it's probably (2.00 / 2)

What, your ladies can't field dress a moose?

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:17:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They usually say thanks but no thanks (none / 0)

when I ask for them to go moose-hunting with me in Central and Eastern Washington.

How did the Gregoire-Rossi debate go the other night. I have a feeling we lose that one.

by Blazers Edge on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:18:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They usually say thanks but no thanks (none / 0)

Not good. Christine is in trouble.

They are pouring the money into Rossi, she is one of the few Democrats with the wind in her face?

She needs tremendous Obama coat-tails and even then, not sure that is enough.

Dino will be a one termer, he is lazy as all get out.

I wonder who the dems run in 2012 against Dino?

Jay Inslee? Maybe Maria Cantwell is tired of being in the senate?

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:23:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll admit it (2.00 / 1)

Men...Thinking with that little head again....

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The winking was hilarious (2.00 / 1)

My wife, my thirteen-year-old daughter and I were laughing our asses off at her winks. She started off well enough, but ended as the pageant queen she actually is.

I hope against hope she runs for president in 2012. I can hardly wait for the sequel to the grand comedy that is Mooselini.

by Spiffarino on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:20:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The winking was hilarious (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, Folksy and cute became clawing and grating at the end....

Wonder what happens when you wink at Putin?

Think he just melts at how adorable you are?

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:25:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

When you wink at Putin (2.00 / 1)

he makes you his bitch. Just sayin'...

Senator Al Franken. Have I died and gone to heaven? Not yet. We're still in Purgatory.

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:14:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

rec'd for Mooselini (2.00 / 1)

She kept her future national political career alive by beating the lowest expectatons in history (and if she doesn't get censured in Alaska next year).

Huckabee has a competitor (and she would probably beat him). We can only hope that there is a civil war between the Palin/Huckabee plain folks wing and the East Coast pointy head wing of the Republican Party.

Our Moment Is Now

by mboehm on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:52:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll admit it (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, the head cheerleader in high school seems adorable, too, until you ask her out! Don't let her fool ya, man! She's just like that girl in high school that you think likes you, but she's making fun of you behind your back and totally humiliates you when you have the courage to ask you out.

She's a "mean girl"... look at how horribly she treats her family... she could care less about any of them... her husband, her kids.. they are all like cattle to her... that's all you need to know...

Look past the pretty face and you will see that she has a very dark and cruel soul.

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:23:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm with Obama (none / 0)

no pub would ever get my vote. I'm just telling you man, I like her.

Tom Coburn, Hillary Clinton, Dick Lugar, and Joe Lieberman have gotten shout-outs in the first two debates. Who else is going to get props?

by Blazers Edge on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll admit it (none / 0)

Sounds like someone got rejected. Good job you're not bitter about it. ;-)

But seriously, you are stereotyping outrageously. One of the nicest girls I knew in High School was a cheerleader. None of us know Sarah Palin well enough to make such statements about her inner persona. I am quite content to say I am diametrically opposed to her politically, and leave it at that. I do not think it is necessary or wise to make her over into a comic book villain.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:47:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll admit it (none / 0)

You can read her bio and see that politically, she is overambitious and like to stab former mentors in the back.
The fact that she has her Down's Syndrome baby up after 0930, just so she can get a photo op, says enough about her character.
And her pregnant 17 year old daughter?
Nowhere to be found....

I am an evangelical, and so is she.

We have NOTHING in common.

She is an opportunistic user. Period.

A PROUD Hopium user!

by xodus1914 on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll admit it (none / 0)

I definitely think she was a mean girl. My girlfriends and I watched the debate last night and she reminded each of us of the girls who used to pick on other girls, calling them "lesbos" or some other nasty names. We girls have a sixth sense for this stuff.

And I think the winking was beyond weird and idiotic. You don't even do that in an adult beauty pageant. That's how you behave when you are a 5 year old in a beauty pageant. Seriously, think about it. I'm just kind of shocked that a grown woman would do that, in a time when our economy is failing no less, and anyone in their right mind would find it endearing. I guess I'm pretty young and haven't been politically conscious for too long, but she is the most pathetic candidate for higher office I've ever seen.

by cecilybecily on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 10:54:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll admit it (none / 0)

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't kick Todd Palin out of bed for eating moose.

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 03:36:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Regarding MSNBC Pundits... (2.00 / 1)

Can we all agree that Roger Simon is a complete tool? Why is he on any other network besides Faux?

by Spiffarino on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:16:56 AM EST

"watching FoxNews" (none / 0)

I hope you have had your shots.

by thenurse on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:17:35 AM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 1)

Biden was so clutch in slapping down that "maverick" theme.

by wasder on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:26:54 AM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 1)

I think she did a lot more damage to the McCain 'brand' than most pundits and posters are giving her credit for, sure she passed the low bar set for her but we'll forget all about that tomorrow. Some of the policy frames she used are sure to make some Republicans squirm. She sounded for all the world like she and McCain were running as independents, she disowned her own party, by implication, in ways that McCain would never have dared, she aligned the Republican platform with Democrats on same-sex civil rights and let loose with criticism of Wall Street and Washington which may be in line with the current anger in the electorate but which strikes me as a dangerous stretch for a Republican candidate.

This performace seems to add further credence to the perception of the Republican party in deep schism and crisis, and I think this is a problem for the McCain campaign, both with political insiders and the mainstream base who are seeking to rebuild their party not burn it down.

And I noted the emergence of a stupefyingly disloyal tendency for her to promote her reputation and agendas and leave attacks on McCain and Republicans in general hanging unanswered. That's got to raise a few eyebrows, doesn't it? She even pitched ANWR while tiptoeing around her alignment with the platform of her current leader. Barracuda? They're cannibalistic aren't they? I'm guessing she is going to be watched pretty closely in future by certain people for signs of inappropriate political self-interest. Just my two bob on the subject.

She sounded like she was running with Ross Perot.

by Shaun Appleby on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:27:36 AM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Actually, the pundits are saying, that is the frame that the Repubs are going to spin:

Don't look back, Obama and Biden are looking back, we are the future instead.

Seriously. Hey, just ignore WE created this mess, it's those mean guys Obama and Biden who are keeping you in it, reminding you of it?

Come with us, we know the way out!

Seriously, here in WA state, Rossi WILL NOT call himself a (R) or Republican on any literature or TV ad.

He is Dino Rossi GOP.

I would not be surprised if that is what Palin starts calling herself, or just declares

Republican, that's just a label those guys are putting on us...

They are that brazen.

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:32:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Well, I understand that is the idea but she even seemed to be throwing McCain overboard from time to time, and left a lot of attacks on her principal dangling, maybe she just didn't have the ability to comeback but she didn't seem to care either so long as she could promote herself. If I was McCain I would be relieved, on the one hand, and worried on the other. She's acting like she thinks she's the top of the ticket sometimes, and this was one of them, it seems to me.

by Shaun Appleby on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:39:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Well you have to know, like all evangelicals, she really actually detests McCain?

She would throw him overboard in a minute for real, given half a chance.

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:42:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Yeah, well it shows. And at this point in the race she's not doing him, or herself, any favours on that point. Loyalty does not seem to be her strong suit.

by Shaun Appleby on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:43:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

After the Obama victory, there is a war coming for the soul of the Republican party.

The Mitt Romney/National Review/Kathryn Parker/East Coast Money crowd vs The Sarah Palin/Christianist/James Dobson/Pat Buchanan Culture Warrior crowd.

It will not be pretty.....

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:47:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Don't forget the Ron P4U1 Mountain West libertarian crowd and the Giuliani neocon crowd. Or, for that matter, the George HW Bush foreign policy realist crowd.

If Obama wins (knock on wood) we're going to see the end of the Reagan coalition.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:52:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

And, FINALLY the death of the Southern Strategy.

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:53:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

It's cyclical. They were slitting each others' throats from 92 until 94 until Newt Gingrich came along. This has happened before.

The only thing that holds the Republican party together is a charismatic head. You lose that and it's basically a debating society from Pluto - dudes arguing about who would win in a fight: a ban on gay people or a capital-gains tax cut?

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:14:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Hmmm, it's ironic that she expressed admiration for Dick Cheney then, because that is the one area in which I want my VP candidate to emulate Cheney. In the VP debates, especially in 2000, Cheney took every question as an opportunity to promote W or attack the Dem Presidential candidate. Lieberman took every question as a chance to burnish his own credentials. He was basically throwing his hat in the ring for 2004.

If you go back and read the transcripts of the 2000 debate, Biden was playing Cheney's part, while Palin was emulating Lieberman. That's good for our side.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 03:01:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (2.00 / 1)

No doubt, though I fear she seeks to emulate Cheney in other ways less salutary by a significant margin.

by Shaun Appleby on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 03:11:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Laughing my ass off at Luntz (none / 0)

if there is a shift and that shift is to Obama. This guy's focus group gave it 27-17 to Obama last week; now, his focus group is giving it overwhelmingly to Palin? The guy is a pub but at least he ran an honest focus group last week; even if you think Palin did well, she didn't win 75-25. What a joke, "watch the polls move."

by Blazers Edge on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:47:09 AM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

I actually think she did pretty well for the many voters who respond viscerally more than intellectually. A quote from MSNBC - "I think she stopped her own bleeding tonight. I don't know if she stopped John McCain's."

by Drummond on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:51:52 AM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

As I said above, I think in the back of her mind, she was playing for herself, for her leadership of the Culture Warrior wing of the party.

That is why, when she was singing the praises of McCain, it seemed half-hearted.

She doesn't believe it, she is playing for herself now. For 2012 and...

She wanted to solidify her spot with the base.

Mission Accomplished.

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:56:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Well, that was my original point. It seems to undermine McCain's campaign now and have a negative impact on his election, just sayin'. I'm surprised the pundits haven't mentioned this beyond Begala and Bernstein.

by Shaun Appleby on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:02:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

The pundits did not notice it (as far as I can recall) when Lieberman did essentially the same thing in 2000. In a way it was more remarkable then, because Gore's goose was far from being cooked.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 03:14:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Well, the pundits are going to try as hell to spin it for her, but their time is limited... for once, we get to step on John McCain's buzz, and that's going to be the bailout vote tomorrow which will consume the news all over the weekend... thank goodness!

I talked to my wife and my mom... my wife was initially intrigued by the palin pick, but quickly soured on her... both my mom and my wife felt that it was obvious that she didn't know what she was talking about...

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:03:53 AM EST

She was better because....... (none / 0)

She avoided tough questions.

This should be the meme.

She avoided tough questions.

by jasmine on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 07:12:09 AM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

Palin did her job last night as a talking head. The GOP crammed the script into her along with how to react to certain statements (I practically saw her jump a few times as though a key word was said & it was time for her to state a talking point). She was very well rehearsed to do her thing which was smile, look into the camera, connect with the audience & get in a few pre-fab marketing slogans (ie say it isn't so joe) that would hopefully catch on. The expectation was set so that if she managed to put a coherent sentence together the world would rejoice in surprise & delight. And there you have it - she did. On the opposite side was a knowledgeable career senator who attempted to discuss substance & throw in a few DNC marketing slogans (which were created by the DNC who are too busy concentrating on substance to be the marketing genius that the GOP machine is). He showed up to actually have a debate & was not pre-fabricated. As a result he wasn't a talking head & from that point of view he couldn't connect the same way with the morons that are the swing voters like Palin (sorry to call them morons but if you don't have an idea as to what is going on you just aren't all there).

by jrsygrl on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 09:09:48 AM EST

Re: More Post-Debate Thready Goodness (none / 0)

jasmine, jrsygrl:

Totally agree re: Palin avoiding the questions etc.

But I think it's a mistake to dismiss Palin's performance, even if it was vacuous.

The fact is, the VP debate wasn't the train wreck (or NASCAR pile up) most people were predicting. And while Biden was great, the story of the debate has become, "Palin didn't screw up".

Sure, she might have dodged every question put to her and reverted to talking points, but like it or not that was smart strategy, given her apparent mental faculties....

Interesting clip here shows a media coach talking about the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4vDcnAah Ak

He describes Palin's "bridging" - seamlessly jumping from the question to the rehearsed talking points.

We've all seen it and it's frustrating but works for most viewers!

There must have been some heavy coaching this week! As well as managing down expectations of Palin's ability...

Anyway - it allowed Palin to survive and shine (depending on who you ask) as the folksy, fundie, hockey/soccer/whatever mom that the right love to love.

by YBCsteve on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 11:06:03 AM EST

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