Jonathan's Debate Thread

Here's my debate thread...

  • We just had the moment of the debate, Biden defending his fatherhood, chocking up when recalling when he was a single father who wasn't certain that one of his children would survive.
  • MAJOR Palin gaffe moment: Embracing Dick Cheney as her model for Vice President. Cheney's numbers are terrible. Poorly played.
  • Marc Ambinder is completely right: "Palin is running out of TPs; she's repeating them"
  • Palin gaffe alert: Mistakenly calls General McKiernan, the head of the effort in Afghanistan, General "McClellan." Whoops. Says Ben Smith, "McClellan was a Civil War general, McKiernan is the current one."
  • Palin was able to muddle through the domestic policy half of this debate without too much trouble or damage, but when it comes to the international policy half she and her empty talking points are just no match for Biden.
  • Not a good showing here. Palin doesn't understand the question from moderator Gwen Ifill about the use of nuclear weapons, confusing the implementation of such arms with the proliferation of them. Whoops.

By the by, the timing of the Associated Press article running under the headline "Judge refuses to block Alaska Troopergate probe" -- coinciding with the Vice Presidential debate, hitting papers at the same time as the write ups of the first meeting of Sarah Palin and Joe Biden -- isn't great for the Republican ticket.

Prior updates below the fold...

  • What is Palin talking about on "change coming"? Rattling of meaningless rhetoric may sound good, but where's the beef?
  • A terrible contrast for Palin. Biden says, "We will end the war, they won't", and Palin hesitates for a couple of seconds before feebly trying to claim that Biden is raising the white flag. Ouch.
  • Wow. Very interesting. Biden comes out strongly in favor of rights for same sex couples... and Palin seems to agree with him (or at least doesn't attack him for his position). Rove and 2004 this isn't.
  • "Drill, baby, drill"? Really? Not the most presidential sounding statement...
  • In case you missed it... Palin: "I've Been at This For Like Five Weeks"
  • One thing is clear so far: Tonight's debate is significantly feistier than Friday night's presidential debate.
  • Biden is DESTROYING the McCain healthcare plan, noting that it raises taxes by over $3 trillion to replace $12,000/year healthcare plans with $5,000/year healthcare plans.
  • Biden is certainly not taking it easy on Palin: "The Governor did not answer the question on de-regulation."
  • Palin is certainly sounding smoother than she has in earlier interviews... But is there any gravitas there? I'm not so certain.
  • Good. Biden isn't keeping the gloves off in the wake of Palin going negative from the get-go.


Display:


I wish Palin would stop (none / 0)

saying "darn it" for everything. She's not that folksy, and its just like that girl in high school who thinks everyone likes her who is really hated talking down to the rest of the class.


by Lakrosse on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:23:27 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Sarah Palin is defiantly doing better than i would have thought, but she continues to not answer the questions and keeps changing the topic.


by YankeesforObama on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:29:48 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

She has been trained by the  best.  I have no doubt she will get on camera & finally, eventually be able to repeat her lines and smile for America like was drilled into her head. Anyone can do it - the programming of Sarah Palin has finally taken effect.

For Christ sakes I'm still convinced that W has something wrong with him & he managed to get on camera and have commentators walking away saying "well he didn't do as bad as I expected, " & claim 2 elections so there you have it. The GOP can sell America shit on a stick & make us thank them for the odor. And meanwhile the Democrats have the facts on their side and manage to not market it well.


by jrsygrl on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:33:48 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Climate Change - Was that our Tina Fey moment?  I think so.


by jmnyc on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:34:07 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 3)

Has anyone noticed how much of the Democratic platform on the economy and energy Palin is attempting to frame as hers and McCain's?  As recently as six months ago some of these positions would have been unbelievable coming from the Republican ticket.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:36:37 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

  The wingnuts should no longer be excited about her.  She doesn't hate the gays!  (She thinks they can sleep together).  Giggle  
  Seriously though she is rarely straying beyond DEMOCRATIC boilerplate.  
Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:40:11 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

CNN audience doesn't like Palins foriegn policy rambling.  They like Biden's more.  Sarah lost her place in the script for a bit there, too.  


by Scotch on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:45:31 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

She's bombing on foreign policy but it's not her fault, the McCain platform is indefensible.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:48:07 PM EST

Insane and unstable leader? (2.00 / 1)

best case against McCain


by ann0nymous on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:49:07 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Nucular--Nucular--Nucular.

I wish she would stop with the eye-raq and eye-ran crap too.  It's ear-raq and ear-ran.


by Scotch on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:50:03 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Sarah, it's ir-an, not I-ran. Sorry, just one of my bugaboos.

I love the CNN uncommitted lines -- Biden is just killing her on foreign policy, which is the Republican's best topic. She's not going to lose any more votes tonight, but she isn't going to win many either.


by fsm on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:50:12 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

  Palin is losing her concentration.  She was much better at the beginning of this debate.  She's now relying on polemics.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:51:39 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

They pumped her on Foriegn policy, but it is still clear she is just spitting talking points...

Second Holocaust....She ran that out with Kati


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:52:32 PM EST

Spain (2.00 / 1)

That was a great hit by Biden.  

Palin doesn't even try to rebut - moves on.

Awesome.


by jmnyc on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:52:44 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Biden is NOW running...she is being left behind.


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:53:38 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Palin is doing worse than I expected. Biden is clearly relaxed and speaking comfortably from knowledge. Palin is awkwardly forcing packaged thoughts. She did well in brief periods when the answers seemed like her own words, and the style I remembered from her 2006 Alaska debates, but in general she's spitting out cram-course responses and often stumbling to remember the order and the emphasis.

I have a feeling Palin will be praised for this performance, based on low expectation and some of her warm smiling sound bite moments moments, but this is less than her best effort and it's due to fearful over preparation from the GOP handlers.


by Gary Kilbride on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:58:01 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

She speed speaks like a nervous, albeit well rehearsed, amature who is hoping against hope that she can regain some credibility after her series of stunningly ignorant interviews with Katie Couric. She's coming off as trying too hard, and repeatedly reading/reviewing prepared attacks, comments and responses from her notes isn't go to win this for her in the face of Biden's natural flow.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:58:10 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Biden has won the last 10 minutes at least...

Palin is stuck on talking points.


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:02:41 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

What's Sarah over there writin'?  A book?


by Scotch on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:03:36 PM EST

Sarah agrees with Biden (none / 0)

She's agreed with Biden on Darfur, and now has agreed with him at least as many times as Obama agreed with McCain.

I guess all that spin from the Republicans about how that strategy was a mis-step on Obama's part didn't keep Palin's debate coaches from having her adopt it.


by fsm on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:06:25 PM EST

Re: Sarah agrees with Biden (none / 0)

Is it just me or does Sarah sound like she's morphing the Republican platform into an almost indistinguishable clone of the Democrats?  Subtract the 'honour and victory' fluff and she hasn't really done much to differentiate herself.  She is merely attacking Biden on character and consistency based on his past legislative record.  I wonder if McCain is watching with satisfaction or alarm.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can I (none / 0)

PUKE yet? God she makes me ILL! I just want to reach through the screen and ask her to SHUT UP!!!

ugh!


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:08:30 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Biden is still on this feet.....

Looking at the camera, where are our trolls that were slaming him a while ago...


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:08:58 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

This is my favorite Palin quote so far:

PALIN:"It's a toxic mess on Mainstreet that's affecting Wallstreet."


by Memekiller on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:09:05 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Joe's off the chart right now.  We are doomed if this pitbull becomes our next VP.


by Blueblob on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:09:31 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

What you expect, a team of Mavericks?

NO, please, you can't tell me men are thinking she is winning this?

I am embarressed for my gender...


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:10:18 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Holy Crap!  I thought we were going to go through the whole population of Wasilla name by name, occupation by occupation.


by Scotch on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:14:34 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Neutral again....

Biden is still doing well, but she is glad she is off Foriegn Policy...

What, the Founding Fathers put in much flexibility in the consitition for the VP?

ARRRGGHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:17:00 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

She wants to be another Cheney?  Yikes.  The woman is a megalomaniac.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:17:18 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Little lesson in civics from Biden, thanks Joe, let's put the separation of powers back in the picture.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:18:26 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (2.00 / 1)

Did I misunderstand the question?  Wasn't it what is your achilles heel?  WTF?


by Scotch on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:19:42 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

He just left HER out about comparing records...

He and Barrack against McCain...

Left her out.

He is still winning here....


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:21:01 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Anyone got the Maverick count?

I think its approaching 40 times she has dropped Maverick.....


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:22:26 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

It's pronounced "Maeverik," bud.


by judybrowni on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

PALIN:"It's a toxic mess on Mainstreet that's affecting Wallstreet."

How did I miss that one? Geez Louise, all those greedy little town bastards who wanted one house for their family, preventing Wall Street money men from acquiring that second summer house, no less the boat.


by judybrowni on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:30:44 PM EST

Sarah's 30 Seconds of Fame. (none / 0)

He is the man that we need to LEAVE... Lead. Oops....


by nzubechukwu on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:31:49 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

This was a lively debate, IMO much more interesting than the first presidential debate. Palin wobbled many times while scrambling for her talking points but she was personable and "normal" unlike McCain.

Biden was excellent throughout, one of the best debate performances I can remember.

It was a great decision to use podium style for the VP debate this cycle, as opposed to the seated VP debates of 2000 and 2004.


by Gary Kilbride on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:32:08 PM EST

Joe Biden Rocks. (none / 0)

BREAD AND BUTTER ISSUES.  JOE WON THE DEBATE.


by nzubechukwu on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:33:12 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

I think 2 important things happened:

1. Palin ensured that there is no way that McCain can rid himself of her, no matter what.

2. 100,000,000 people tuned in to see Sarah and got to see Biden at his best.

I don't care what the spinners say about it, this was a GREAT day for the Obama/Biden ticket.

GOBAMA/BIDEN!


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:26:50 PM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

did she get off the repub platform on the issue of civil rights for "the homosexuals"?
 Wonder what Dobson thinks
by rocky on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:00:23 AM EST

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread (none / 0)

Well it was less than I expected!

If the news and coverage of this debate was anything to go by, I am sure we all expected more - much more.

However, yes Palin seemed to hold her own, although Biden certainly took home he cup.

As objective as one possibly can be, and without trying to run any lady (Palin), down, there simply is NO WAY - that she will cope in the white house.

God save her, if she at any stage would have to face political leaders head on. She simply cannot hold her focus on the speaker's question - she just bulldozers on to a topic she knows of!

Forget sides for moment, Hilary Clinton - as a woman, will wipe the floor with Palin. One really starts to wonder if John Mc Cain has all his whits together? Did he nominate Palin for looks and being a great mother, or did he choose her for her savvy and REAL VALUE she can bring to the table?

Biden may not be as popular - he was however, the most effective!

Efficiency is what America now needs! Gone with incompetency!

Chase Morgan


Thanks for reading, and, God Bless You! Chase Morgan
by Chase Morgan on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 07:10:05 AM EST


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