More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls

Following up on Jerome's post earlier on Quinnipiac University's battleground state polls, it's worth noting that, as Nate Silver observed in his polling update this morning:

Well, Quinnipiac broke its sample into two halves: pre-debate and post-debate. For all intents and purposes, these are two separate surveys, and so that's how I list them.

Quinnipiac's pre-debate polls of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania encompass the time frame from 9/22-26 and their post-debate polls were in the field from 9/27-29. So, I thought it would be interesting to look at the results side by side along with the early September poll that preceded this round of polling.

FLORIDA:

9/27-299/22-269/5-9
Obama514943
McCain434350

OHIO:

9/27-299/22-269/5-9
Obama504949
McCain424244

PENNSYLVANIA:

9/27-299/22-269/5-9
Obama544948
McCain394345

A few things jump out. First of all, Quinnipiac's numbers do appear a bit too good to be true for Obama, and really, they always have. Nate Silver elaborates:

Quinnipiac's polls have shown a slight Democratic lean this cycle -- they've been 1-2 points more favorable to Dems than contemporaneous polls of their states. From what I can tell, their head of polling (Peter Brown) has fairly conservative politics, so I don't know that it can be called a partisan lean. But that is the side that the polls have tended to end up upon nevertheless.

Having said that, there is a clear (if at times dramatic) trend in each state toward Obama: +15 in Florida, +3 in Ohio and +12 in Pennsylvania. In addition, it's pretty clear that, contrary to conventional wisdom, Obama's debate performance did move voters, if only slightly. It hasn't shown up much in the national numbers, but on a state by state basis, he appears to have done himself some good.

One other thing jumps out at me from reading Quinnipiac's analysis of their results and that is the reason for the uptick in Obama's support.

From Florida:

"During the past three weeks, Florida voters lost their faith in Sen. McCain. His net favorability dropped in half and Sen. Obama's almost doubled over the same period. One look at independents shows the massive change. Three weeks ago, McCain had a seven-point edge among Florida independents. Today, Obama leads among that group by 12 points," Brown said.

From Ohio:

"It's easy to see why Sen. McCain is doing so poorly. On September 11, his favorable/unfavorable ratio among Ohio voters was 53 - 34 percent. Now it's just 49 - 40 percent, dropping from a 19-point plus to nine points in just 20 days, while Sen. Obama's ratings have remained as positive as they were. And the economy is the reason. Obama's five-point edge as the best candidate to handle the economy - which is by far the most important issue to voters, especially in economically distressed Ohio - has doubled," Brown said.

From Pennsylvania:

"Pennsylvania is back in its role as the most Democratic swing state in the 2008 election, mainly because voters believe that Sen. Obama will do a better job handling the economy. Three quarters of voters say economic issues, including energy and health care, are the most important in this campaign and Obama wins big on every economy-related question in the poll. Sen. McCain can't win Pennsylvania with just 36 percent of voters saying he is the candidate for the economy," said Clay F. Richards, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

So, the economy then, right? We already knew that. Well, there's something else in play here, which this analysis captures:

"Sen. Obama clearly won the debate, voters say. Their opinion of Gov. Sarah Palin has gone south and the Wall Street meltdown has been a dagger to McCain's political heart. Roughly a third of voters, and almost as large a share of the key independent vote, say McCain did more harm than good in trying to resolve the financial crisis, and the share of voters who see the economy as the top issue has risen from roughly half to six in ten."

Because of the perfect storm created by the economic crisis (and John McCain's flailing response to it) as well as the plummeting approval of Sarah Palin, voters seem to be undergoing a major crisis in confidence when it comes to John McCain. Barack Obama, at worst, has presented himself as an acceptable alternative.

This does make me wonder how hard the support for Obama is if it's largely driven by an anti-McCain/Palin sentiment. So, personally, I'm going to heed Mike Podhorze's warning that this race is still extremely volatile and not take these states for granted. Quinnipiac is making FL, OH & PA out to be solid Obama. Until I see evidence to the contrary, they're still toss-ups to me.



Display:


Re: More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls (none / 0)

these were too good to be true untill CNN/TIME poll showed the same thing.

instead Q is just oversensitive to real Obama movements in these states.

so maybe the leads aren't this big, but 3 polls came out today, 3 polls show Obama with a lead in Florida.

other florida polls in recent days showed it extremely tight.

with 3 polls its intellectually dishonest to not at least note this as the first signs of real movement for Obama.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:04:06 PM EST

Re: More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls (none / 0)

I don't meant that you are being dishonest.

but this whole, don't get too excited is dumb. people panic when there is slight movement in McCain's direction, and they worry we will screw up when we go positive.

no one is going to stop just because we are entering landslide proportions, but we are going to note it and be damn excited about it.

people need to stop worrying so much about people enjoying good news.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pennsylvania is Democratic (none / 0)

yes, I know that ``it was close'' in 2004. But Clinton and Rendell made it Democratic way back in 1990's and there is no way Obama is going to loose Pennsylvania in such a horrible economy.

But I do agree that polls have been most favorable to Obama at this time. The question is whether he has peaked too early or is McCain going to tank even more. Something tells me that latter is the case- each week he does something truly bizzare.  


by ann0nymous on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:06:53 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania is Democratic (none / 0)

you know thats what i think its really been.

he keeps stumbling and right when we all expect he will finally be able to recover, something else happens that makes our jaws drop.

its been 2 1/2 weeks of just pure disaster for this campaign.

and even now you are saying it just couldn't possibly get worse.

man I seriously can't wait to see that debate tomorrow now.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania is Democratic (none / 0)

It's like the opposite of the Clinton campaign, if you were an Obama supporter.  Just when everything started going smoothly, they would find a new hook that Obama had a hard time dealing with.  I heard that the campaign's nickname among Obama staffers was "Jaws" - like one minute the ocean is calm, and then you hear the theme start up.

This is just ridiculous.  I thought the general would be harder.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:03:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls (none / 0)

I worry about the race thing in Ohio. Florida  I don't and although it might be a problem in PA, Philly will swamp McCain.

Ohio is the only state where I think it is truly volatile and as I have said before, I'm glad that we don't have to win Ohio to win the election.


by sweet potato pie on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:25:10 PM EST

As Sherrod said, its the economy (none / 0)

and its been brutal here.

When Obama sends Bill Clinton to Ohio, he'll talk about the economy and reassure voters here.  Ohioans love Clinton, he'll help a great deal.


by Betsy McCall on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The economy has been brutal (none / 0)

And that's why it is the focus of the campaign here in Ohio. We need to make sure that every Ohioan sees the ad we released today.

The ad that wins Ohio

Todd Hoffman
Ohio Democratic Party


by Todd Hoffman on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PA's no tossup (none / 0)

I'll bet my $2 against your $1 that PA's going Dem, Todd.

Or whatever multiple of that bet you care to wager.


by RT on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:43:24 PM EST

Re: More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls (none / 0)

I'm with Todd on this one. Anybody who really believes that Obama has PA, FL and OH in the bag is smoking that new and improved crack.
Does anybody really believe that Rove and Co, aren't gearing up with some utterly moronic, totally untrue rumor about one week before the election?
We are trying to get a Black man elected whose name rhymes with "Iraq Hussien Osama",and you folks are resting on your laurels based on some polls?
Barack has had an incredible journey. He and a Democratic Congress with Hillary as Senate Majority Leader, Bill on the Supreme Court, John Edwards as the Atty General and Al Gore over the EPA, will barely scratch the iceberg of undoing 8 years of having a President whom everyone "wants to invite over for a BBQ"

Suck it up, everyone and PRESS ON!

Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:44:05 PM EST

Re: More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls (2.00 / 1)

I don't think anyone is saying we should take it easy. Heck, we're out registering voters and phone-banking in Texas. If Texas goes for Obama, it's long since over. But we're still all doing our level best to flip it.

And since no one is polling here, who knows what's going on? The only real evidence we've got is the Cornyn/Noriega race, which is within 7. I don't think there's any likelihood that Cornyn/Noriega is closer than McCain/Obama; Noriega has enormous name-recognition problems and isn't constantly talked about in the media.

So my bet is we're probably no wider than M+4/5 here, maybe closer.

Pedal to the medal. Phonebank, register voters, GOTV (especially to early voting).


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls (none / 0)

Following up on my own post, Ras has Texas M+9. I still doubt that; I'll be surprised if Cornyn/Noriega is closer than McCain/Obama when it all plays out.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:48:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Poll updates (none / 0)

The CNN TIME poll concurred with Quinnipiac.  Obama is in great shape with 4 weeks to go.  The Ground Game will take over Todd, things are looking up.  Like James Carvalle said, "it's the economy stupid."


by nzubechukwu on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:45:47 PM EST

Re: Poll updates (2.00 / 1)

That was the big surprise. I thought the Q polls were probably outliers by 2-3 points, but CNN/Time pulling very similar numbers suggests that either both have the same methodological flaws or we've got real solid data.

There's absolutely no way that this is in the bag. Like I said in another comment, it's pedal to the metal time.

But there are a whole lot of reasons why we should be optimistic and let the optimism fire up enthusiasm for the next big push. The McCain campaign is dysfunctional at best. We are competitive in places that were thought out of play a month ago -- heck, we're leading in places that were thought out of play. Nearly all of the structural factors favor Obama -- the election is about the economy, not FP; it's about change, not experience; etc. There's an enormous enthusiasm gap. Obama is increasingly perceived as Presidential; McCain is increasingly perceived as not Presidential. Palin is looking more and more like an albatross (pending tomorrow, where she either salvages something or sinks for good). McCain has already failed to win the debate that was supposed to be best for him. To whatever extent the media matters, they really don't like McCain much at all by this point. The Republican party is in disarray. The strongest character attacks against Obama were played over and over in the primaries and several have been repeated in the GE already; the strongest character attacks against McCain have yet to be played. Obama has high positives; McCain has high negatives; going negative tends to hurt the person with the worst negatives more.

Of course we can still implode. But I'd sure rather be in our position than the McCain side's, right about now.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On Those Quinnipiac University Polls (none / 0)

I agree, to an extent with sentiment.

If you look at the trendlines, Ohio is going to be the toughest nut to crack and I do think this poll - as it has - overstates Obama's support there.

HOWEVER, PA is not a toss up state. Obama is going to win there. He has led basically every poll in PA since June. People need to understand that PA is considerably more liberal than Ohio and even to an extent Michigan. I've lived in both OH and PA, trust me. Eastern PA, even outside Philly metro, which is 40% of the state's voters, is probably a much closer match to NJ or NY. Western PA is much more like Ohio. But nevertheless, this makes PA a state that is fundamentally better for Obama.

As to FL, I wouldn't take anything for granted. But real movement has occurred there and if the election were today, Obama would win the state. That doesn't mean it won't swing back either. But FL is a state McCain cannot lose.

Really, McCain is on the back foot right now. Ohio and Florida are states McCain has to win, but Obama doesn't. And he's losin them both right now - at least he's certainly losing FL.


by Ben P on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:15:55 PM EST


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