NH Indies Nearly Twice as Likely to Vote in Dem than GOP Primary

The collective wisdom of the establishment media seems to have settled on the meme that John McCain is likely, or is at least very probably, going to win New Hampshire on Tuesday, catapulting himself into the position of the establishment alternative (and thus likely slayer) of Mike Huckabee in the Republican primaries. I have to admit that, even before Mitt Romney lost in ignominy on Thursday, I had assumed that the Republicans would settle on old man McCain, just as they had settled on old man Bob Dole in 1996 and old man George H.W. Bush in 1988. Now, however, I must say that I have begun to rethink this conclusion.

In order for McCain to win New Hampshire -- and thus be in a position to be the anti-Huckabee candidate in the Republican race -- he's going to need to have independent voters turn out for him in great numbers. This happened for him in 2000, when the state's independents chose to back him in the GOP primary rather than backing Bill Bradley in the Democratic primary, thus helping him secure a much-needed victory over George W. Bush and helping deny a much-needed victory for Bradley over Al Gore. Indeed, this time around McCain's lead appears to be based entirely on support from independent voters. Zogby tracking numbers out of New Hampshire show McCain holding a 2-point lead over Romney in New Hampshire (within the poll's margin of error), though with McCain holding a significantly larger 13-point advantage over Romney among independent voters deemed likely to participate in the Republican primary.

But a strategy relying on support from independent voters in a Republican primary or caucus is an extremely risky one this time around. As Chris Bowers has documented, for instance, if you were to consider the Iowa Republican and Democratic caucuses to be one event rather than two, independent voters were about three times as likely to caucus with the Democrats than the Republicans (with 75 percent of independent caucus-goers participating in the Democrats' event and just 25 percent participating in that of the Republicans). And the aforementioned Zogby polling seems to come to a similar conclusion: 64 percent of New Hampshire independents likely to vote in Tuesday's primaries plan to vote in the Democratic primary while just 36 percent intend to vote in the Republican primary. This number represented an 8-point shift towards the Democrats in just one day.

Now I don't necessarily expect 75 percent of independents voting Tuesday in New Hampshire to vote in the Democratic rather than Republican primary. At the same time, I do expect a great proportion of those independents -- at least 60 percent -- to vote in the Democratic primary. And with these voters supporting Barack Obama or whomever else in a few days, they won't be supporting McCain. And just as McCain was able to succeed to the bane of Bradley eight years ago, so, too, could Obama succeed this week at the expense of McCain -- perhaps so much so that Obama is able to skate to a fairly easy victory while McCain is stymied in his attempt to knock off Romney.



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Re: NH Indies Nearly Twice as Likely to Vote in De (none / 0)

The media is working really, really hard to get McCain back in this race.  I've never seen anything quite like it.  They're trying to save the Republican Party, but I'm not sure the party wants to be saved.  I guess we'll see.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 01:19:51 PM EST

They'll work just as hard for him (none / 0)

if he is the GOP nominee in the GE.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 02:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NH Indies Nearly Twice as Likely to Vote in De (none / 0)

You've just described my dream scenario, however, don't be so quick to jump to conclusion that McCain needs a big number of independents to win. Many Repubs in NH are probably moderate to independent-leaning. Furthermore, Romney, may have been so damaged, post-Iowa, that he'll have trouble pulling it off regardless.


by animated on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 01:37:03 PM EST

Re: NH Indies Nearly Twice as Likely to Vote in De (none / 0)

P.S. Interestingly, Ron Paul (at 14% in latest Rasmussen) is probably one of the factors holding McCain back from total domination. Go Ron Paul!


by animated on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 01:43:13 PM EST

Good post (none / 0)

I agree. It is ironic that Obama vs. McCain is one of the real contests in NH.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 02:41:58 PM EST

Fooey (none / 0)

people have got to stop buying this BS that 40% of New Hampsherites are independents. 40% say they are. A study of their voting patterns show that only about 15% truly are.

McCain will win the republican vote and add to his margin with GOP aligned "independents". My suspicion is Obama will carry the Democrat vote and add to his margine with Dem aligned "Independents", and top that off more with the majority of the honest independents.

But either way, stop with this canard that the "Independents" really mean anything.


"What do Barack Obama and David Koresh have in common? Too god damn much."
by ThinkingDem on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 03:12:08 PM EST

Re: NH Indies Nearly Twice as Likely to Vote in De (2.00 / 1)

Whats happening in New Hampshire, is the kind of realignment that changes politics forever. The big story is the number of independents that interested in what the Democrats are doing, and the number of Republicans identified voters interested in Edwards in particular. ARG Polling wrote an article on bad polling done in the final days of Iowa that hurt Edwards and points to a real strength. Interestingly I think it also points to a real change in politics. Think "Democrats for Reagan."
The Obama myth fueled by the flawed Register poll sample damages John Edwards because Edwards gains significant strength from middle-aged independents. Of all the Democrats, Edwards is more apt to compete with McCain for undeclared voters and those undeclared voters could make Edwards very competitive with Obama and Clinton in New Hampshire. -Dick Bennett http://americanresearchgroup.com/
But the difference this time is Independents and Republicans for Edwards -- IRE, those folks are angry out there.

I've written before that the democratic party has a date with the people wanting control over their lives, the anger at elitist smug democrats is real. Edwards calls them "corporate democrats" and a lot of blogs call them "blue dogs". Americans want politicians to work for them, or get out of the way. The republicans catch the benefit of this anger as "get out of the way", and call for smaller government -which leads to Katrina and Louisiana. Democrats LOSE support on this when playing softball with the real movers and shakers in politics in Washington. People are angry at politicians who promise then compromise when they get to Washington. Congressional approval was high for the "first Hundred days" be cause it MOVED on several very popular bills. (Over 80% support for raising the minimum wage!) Congress lost approval when it faltered doing what the public is asking for, "GET the hell out of IRAQ!" for example. When polled Americans say corportations have far too much power by 80%, it is astounding. Unions by comparison "have too much power" by ony forty something percent. This is a winning message. These people can brought on side. Promise and deliver a progressive agenda and you get approval. (I might add this is something Michael Moore has been preaching for a decade. The American people when polled on the whole broad range of actual progressive polices comes down on our progressive agenda. Its just requires a leader)

These sweeping generalizations are off the mark but the broad brush strokes can still help us see what JRE is building, and it looks to me like what progressives hope for.

Low numbers in congressional approval? the result of not listening, anger at Pelosi and Reid? not listening... want approval numbers? then listen.

If JRE moves self-identified independents to vote for him, and those Republicans that are sick of the mess their party has created, and sick of the "clown bus" vying for the Republican leadership, to move to him, that is a "General" winning strategy. It is also a Primary winning announcement.

I hope that JRE makes it very plain during the debate, he wants independent votes. That he wants Non traditional support. I think he should state clearly that he is reaching out. "America wants to be listened to", give voice to "America want their country back.' Just as he added at the end of the Iowa campaign, the inclusion of independents and Republicans who had their country stolen from them ""Children of independents, children of Republicans" need us to take our country back. It is our moral test."

I think its time for him to be seen reaching out by his party. Democrats should see him him as the fundamentally realigning candidate that he is. A poll shows him beating Huckaby 60% to 35% !! this is astounding and useful. He beats all republicans better than any other Democratic Party candidate. Reach out now. "Are you sick of the "clown bus" that is the collection of Republicans running to be the leader of that party? Join John!" --so he can right now reach out to them even before he is the Democratic candidate.--reaching out to those people now. making the call early for the I.R.E. to commit to him to work for him. They want their country back too.
Edwards Republicans. A fundamental realignment.
by inexile on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 03:22:44 PM EST

Re: NH Indies (none / 0)

I don't necessarily think that what happened in IA is representative of NH. Caucus vs. primary. And people were bussed in. Historical NH numbers would probably better. How many independents voted in the Dem primary in 2004? There wasn't even a contested GOP primary that year and that might be the high water mark.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:11:29 PM EST

Re: NH Indies Nearly Twice as Likely to Vote in De (none / 0)

How thrilled are independents to hear about McCain's "100 years in Iraq" statement?  The man is insane.


by Bob H on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 08:19:58 PM EST


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