100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak

Dennis Kucinich is speaking. "You had a m ini revolution in this state last year and we're going to do it next year nationally!"

"I ask you to vote the strength of your convictions."

"We don't need a Democratic president to end the war in Iraq, we should end it now!" Place goes nuts.

On Bush and Cheney: "There is no statute of limitations on war crimes!" Kucinich knows this is his last stand, he is making the most of it.

"We need to bring back that old religion, I'm not talking about theocrats coming into power, I'm talking about FDR!" He's losing the crowd. He's getting a little out of control, flailing about. Now he sounds like a robot. What the hell is he doing?

Impeachment is a big applause for him. This crowd loves them some impeachment.

Hillary Clinton is up next. Huge applause and staning O it should be noted. Hmm, there might be more READY signs than CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN signs. Tough call. Wow this is some greeting, she loves it. "Are you ready to pick a president?"

"It's time for us as Democrats to make our voices known across the country." I count "change" 3 times. Oops, make that 7 times. "Make change by working really really hard" got a big cheer, I think shouting down some opposing shouts.

She's speaking at length about health-care, more than she did even at the rally this morning. Damn, how many healthcare speeches does she have? "I'm not running for president to put a bandaid on our problems, I'm running for president to solve our problems" got a big big applause.

Ripping on No Child Left Behind got a big response as well.

"A new beginning" seems to be her latest rhetorical device; a way of saying "change" without saying "change."

"And I will let the Iraqi government know that the blank check George Bush wrote them is no longer valid." Nice.

Here are the two questions she posed this morning for Democrats to ask: "Who will be the best president on day one?" Crowd chants Hillary! "Who will be the best candidate to go the distance against the Republicans." Some shout "Obama!" Hillary supporters drown them out. Not surprisingly, this partisan crowd is EATING UP all the red meat about the Republicans, "they should be ashamed, they should give up the presidency." The crowd this morning didn't.

"I am a proud Democrat." Neither Hillary or Obama said that this morning. I suspect Barack will say it tonight as well.

Bill Richardson is up. "The most important issue of America and that is the compelling need to end the war in Iraq and get all of our troops out. And I raise the issue again because the national media has kind of put the Iraq war aside and the President has begun the drum beat that the surge is working...They say only 37 troops died in November and I say, that's 37 too many!" He's saying that only by ending the war in Iraq will we be able to accomplish our domestic priorities.

He's calling the new fuel efficiency standards pathetic. Good. The importance of people not currently in congress remaining in the race.

And Richardson is the only candidate to consistently talk in depth about education. Scrap NCLB, raise teacher pay...

Overall, I just don't think he's moved very far from his speech I saw in April.

Barack Obama up next. His supporters are already shouting "Fired Up, Ready To Go!" and gathering up front. This is going to be a thunderous entrance. "For safety concerns" everyone has to take their seats.

And the house is on their feet.

"In four days, you can do what Iowa last night...in four days, you can do what America will do all next year is transform the nation."

"We are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has come!" Huge applause.

"We started last night. We expanded the reach of the Democratic Party, not just the tried and true Democratic Party but Independents and Republicans." He mentioned the turnout of young voters, the place goes wild.

"The vision of a new coalition to sweep a progressive agenda across this country."

"We are on the cusp of a new majority in this country."

He used this "In four days time..." construction and it really does work well. He's much better tonight than he was earlier today.

Speaks about changing healthcare, creating a green economy and ending the war in Iraq. "America is back!"

"You will have the opportunity to elect a president who has taught the constitution, who believes in the constitution and who will obey the constitution...!"

Amazing that "the politics of hope" over "the politics of fear" still gets such a strong response.

Wow, it seems like he's giving his whole stump speech. What did Richardson have, 10 minutes if that? Ahh, the benefits of congressional endorsements.

A strong indictment of Hillary: "We can't expect to keep the same players in Washington and expect different results."

D'oh, the "4 days time" suddenly became "4 years time." Ah, more hope. "He's a hope monger." Always good for a laugh.

The speech was far better than his one from earlier today but this one could have been cut by a few minutes. But still, he had this room, clearly. Dangerous for Hillary. Puts even more importance on tomorrow night's debate, where I'll be as well.



Display:


Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

"Every time you vote to fund the war, you vote to authorize it again!"


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:13:27 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

He's going a little off the rails right now. I wonder if he can get it back?


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:16:07 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

That's a bigger ovation than I as expecting. Wow!


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:22:19 PM EST

Hillary use the Mic (none / 0)

she's doing the yelling thing..


Call it "Medicare Option" not public option
by TarHeel on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:22:35 PM EST

Re: Hillary use the Mic (1.00 / 1)

Joke detected... laugh in 3...2...1... Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

Best. Daily. Show. Bit. of. 2007.


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:56:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

I hope everyone is as impressed as I am with these candidates' superhuman energy and endurance.  They were up all night in Iowa after a week straight of campaigning across the state and an early morning plane flight to NH for even more events and campaigning.  And now they are giving speeches to a national audience the night before a presidential debate, three nights before a primary.  I'm impressed.  


by rationalj on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:25:56 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Well...its not like Presidents take naps and vacation for months at a time at their ranches, only to do fly bys of natural disasters... Presidents don't do THAT... oh... Wait.


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Hillary really is a flat speaker. Why does she keep getting booked before Obama at these dinners? It only lets Obama upstage her.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:26:27 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidential Speak (none / 0)

Because they know the people will stay to hear  Obama. If Hillary is last , half of the people would be gone before she even took the stage while the rest would be trickling out during her speech.

;p


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 07:00:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Oh, no.  Rule of thumb is best goes last.  If Obama went before Hillary, once Hillary got going, it would seem so lackluster in comparison that she'd empty the room.


No Quacks, please.
by noquacks on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 01:04:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary (none / 0)

I thought she would change her message a bit, but it's basically the same thing she finished with in Iowa. I found this message lacking energy and inspiration, which is why I think she lost momentum at the end when people were paying attention. People want to hear more than just a list of issues. All our candidates basically have the same position on most of these issues like Stem cell research, SCHIP, education funding, etc... She's got to do something different.


by Progressive America on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:27:38 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I think she sounds fantastic. Substance not cult of personality.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:30:04 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (1.50 / 2)

Of course the only people who claim the cult of personality thing are usually hardcore Hillary supporters.  Join us in reality and not the made up one in your head.


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)


Now that the contours of the Obama challenge are clear -- and the inadequacy of Clinton's strategy is equally obvious -- she may have missed the chance to change. When she spoke after the caucus results came in, her energetic words could not dispel the listless tableau of the old Clinton administration surrounding her. What purpose was served by the likes of Madeleine Albright at her side in that critical moment? Those images only heightened the freshness and vitality of Obama's superb victory speech -- and emphasized the difficulty of revamping Clinton's status quo campaign.

Joe Conason - Slate Barack delivers, Hillary disappoints 4 Jan 08


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 11:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Gee, she's sounds more like Obama every day with some of her sound bites.  Not particularly convincingly, and with some nonsequitor clashes with her usual laundry-list of policies.  I don't see that Hillary has any choice but to do what Penn said on the plane to NH, run the campaign you've got as hard as you can.  But I don't hear the kind of fluent inclusiveness Obama speaks, she is still tied to the base with traditional appeals.  And it is still all about her and the presidency.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:30:24 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

The speech is basically what Democrats ran on the 90s and even 2004, a list of issues that sounds good. We really need something different if we want to be successful.


by Progressive America on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:33:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 2)

But you know what? Obama's running a 90's campaign. In all honesty, the only one who's NOT running a 90's campaign is Edwards.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

That's why I support Edwards!


by Progressive America on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:42:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Good. I think Obama's even more nineties than Hillary. IMO, it's a rehash of Bill Clinton 92 and Bush 00


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Obama is my second choice, but it's a distant one now. I just don't like that he using right-wing talking points to attack Democrats. I also don't like the idea of appointing so many Republicans to top cabinet positions.

Every one of those seats he gives to a Republican is one that a good Democrat is not getting. It's a seat that he's giving away that could lead to a Republican Governor or Senator in the future rather than a Democratic one.

We don't need to do things like this to win independent votes. We need to win them on message and that's a Democratic one which is better than the Republican one.


by Progressive America on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I think Obama's use of right wing talking points is more troublesome than we think. I say this as someone who studies communications and political rhetoric/framing. One of the biggest knocks against Bill Clinton is that he ran a campaign based on im instead of progressivism. I think that while Clinton did A LOT A LOT A LOT of good things, this is one critisism which is fair.

This is what Obama's campaign is about. Obama. He calls it change, but the only change is based on Obama's rhetoric not a truimph on the democratic party or progressivism. (Hey don't get mad at me Ezra pointed this out, I just agree.)

When Obama uses right wing talking points to attack fellow democrats he's elevating himself in order to re-entrench negative stereotypes of democratic beliefs. I don't want to lose the House and Senate, in the future, in order to gain the White House.

Regardless of who you support, I think this is an important issue to discuss.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:58:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

We were talking at work about this today. We're troubled by his middle of the road and right wing talking points. He gave a great "talking points" speech last night. A real synergy of a great speech writer(s) and a great public speaker. We're hoping that if he gets the nod and wins in November he'll pull an anti-W: talk about finding the middle ground and bipartisanship and then tack to the left and make Progressive policies a reality.


The best sig is no sig.
by Noonan on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

But isn't that rather...Mitt Romney-esque? You know running against your beliefs in order to get elected just to change them again when its politically convient for you?

I dunno, it just seems like post partisian shouldn't involve throwing your people under the bus.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:09:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Well it's what Bush did. I'm also hoping he does that if he's the next President.


by Progressive America on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Amazing how you continue to get Obama's entire message COMPLETELY WRONG.  You don't understand and despite many many many explanations you either still don't get it or decide to make up your own version.  


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I would tend to think the same thing but his history in the IL legislature has been to cave in when the going gets tough. Perhaps that's the lesson he learned---don't ask for too much because you won't get it anyway.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

I'm frustrated by how many people misinterpret this (mostly in the blogosphere, after all his support on the ground is liberal).

What Obama is really after is expanding the coalition by changing the way we talk to independents, showing them that we agree on common values, which for the most part are progressive values.

In some cases, he may accept pragmatic compromises over liberal orthodoxy, but for the most part, I believe it is about bringing in people who could never get behind a Kerry or a Hillary and showing them that they actually AGREE with us on most issues.

If you are really interested in this, watch his 2004 Charlie Rose interview on Google Video, he lays out the whole thing rather clearly.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:51:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

People have been explaining it to these people who either make up their own version or just can't simply understand the concept.  Save your breath on this one... these people won't get it until they see President Obama expand the coalition.  It makes perfect sense, its a winning strategy and it will be fun to see those who don't get it eat shit for it in 2009.


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:05:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

RE: Obama converts (none / 0)

You really know how to win them over, don't you?


by filby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 11:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Maybe Obama isn't communicating what he means clearly because I still don't get his message and I have made a point of listening to several of his speeches.  They sound nice but I have no sense of what he would do.  And he has not demonstrated his strategy in the senate.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 01:13:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Is anyone even listening or are you just tuning her out because it's Hillary?


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:35:46 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Does anyone else find her sudden profligate use of the change moniker a little unseemly? It just makes her look like such a handled poll driven politican! It might just work if you throw enough money but I find it insulting to voters intelligence.

Someone wrote a piece, can't remember who, about how she's had an incredible amount of different slogans. She'd do better to just pick one- any one- and stick to it. The last thing a politican wants is to be perceived a politican (though we all know they are all politicians in the end).


Slash and burn politics baby! Say anything do anything lie cheat steal railroad the opposition into submission: CLINTON FORMULA FOR 2008.
by crackityjones on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:35:57 PM EST

Re: use of change word (none / 0)

I find her emphasis on change about the same as Obama's use of hes experience


by del on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 12:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

No matter who you support, you gotta admit that Hillary is objectively the weakest speaker. Edwards is passionate and fiery, Obama is, well, just a damn-gifted orator. But Hillery is just, frankly, a boring speaker. That said, I'm not sure being a good speaker is the most important thing to look for in a president.


"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:36:53 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Depends on your critera for judging speaking talent. If you're criteria is rhetoric and energy I'd concede that those two are not her best speaking talents. But if you;re criteria is substance and polish she definetely wins. It all depends on what you prefer.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I'm curious, In your opinion, what are the substantive issues that Hillary addresses that the other candidates don't?


"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I think she addresses Health care much better. With Edwards a solid second and Obama a distant third. Though I will say I like Edward's emotional appeals on health care.

I don't find any of Obama's speeches that substantive. He basically uses watered down Edwards lines. I mean really, Obama doesn't advocate a single policy proposal that he didn't parrot from anyone else.

I have a hard time believing he's going to clean up washington by working with Lobbyists. If you're into the sweeping reform of the system thing, Obama seems very lacking.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:49:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

OK. I hear you. I agree that Obama is weak on substance and his "can't we all just get along," worries me. But you hit on the very thing that I think makes JE a much more moving speaker: he personalizes the issues and makes people FEEL them. Hillary just doesn't. Again, this is just speaking about their rhetorical styles.  


"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:01:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Sadly, you hit the nail on the head. What makes a good candidate (Bush) is miles away from what makes a good president (definitely not Bush).


by OrangeFur on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

She pays lip service to working with Republicans "across the divide"...it's the old steal the other guy's message schtick, like when GWB declared himself a "reformer with results."


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:38:48 PM EST

Re: Reformer with results (2.00 / 1)

I remember that one! what a laffer!


by filby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 11:03:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

I want a president who can actually get something done. Not one who sings kumbaya and may be a great orator.

Hillary's point about Republications not giving up the white house without a fight was a great one. At least for those not blinded by the light of the wonderful orator and anointed one, Obama.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:39:33 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

That fight line is a real winner.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

It certainly was. I was very impressed with the substance of what she said and especially with what she said about fighting for the white house and being a proud democrat.

Seems like Bill is ther, the crowd wants to press towards he and Hillary. They just asked them to take their seats. Doesn't look like many are rushing though.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (1.50 / 2)

And the proof Hillary can do this?  Because she sure as hell hasn't in the Senate... and she sure as hell didn't do it while her husband WAS PRESIDENT!


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

And neither has Obama.


by lonnette33 on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 11:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Which one said "I'm proud to be a Democrat"?


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:42:26 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton said it. Though you can bet Obama will parrot it in his speech.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:43:34 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I don't know about that. Is it "post partisan" or too "partisan" to say for him?


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I hope we can at least be objective about speeches. I think Obama's speeches and Edwards speech are generally very passionate and lively. i can appreciate them. I actually prefer Edwards over Obama. Edwards is more consistent while Obama has a higher celing for speaking talent. I also really like Dennis Kuchinich.

But Hillary's speech was really good. It started out a bit flat in the first 30 seconds and I thought, uh oh. But she really picked up the steam immediately. As Todd noted, she had a lot of good lines. Her substance is great but  she needs a snappy motto to sum it up. A new beginning is good but its abstract. However, the way she used "we need a new beginning" to launch her stance on issues was really good.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:45:32 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

richardson falling flat. the crowd doesnt seem very pleased


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:48:47 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I was almost expecting him to announce he was backing out after seeing his wife come out with him, especially after CSpan had the crawl saying he was laying off staffers.


The best sig is no sig.
by Noonan on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:57:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Objectively, I feel Hillary's biggest problem is that she lacks an overarching narrative. She hits the details, but the narrative doesn't go beyond comepetence/ return to the 90s.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:49:01 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

I agree.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

The narrative of her campaign was triumphant inevitability and Round Three against the enemies of the 90's.  Given that Obama changed the game in Iowa it is a flawed narrative and given that he beat her it is a broken one.  She's stuck with it at least through New Hampshire and, as far as I can see, to the bitter end.

Obama's narrative, much maligned through the dog days of summer, has been consistent and is now made compelling by his historic success.  That's politics, folks.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Well, he obviously doesn't reach you.  What would you like to hear him say?  That he will die fighting for the cause against Republicans?  He would rather flatten them on demographics as a Democrat, rather than playing their Rovian game, and survive.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Of course you are the minority who is saying that.    The people paying attention get what BULLSHIT that statement really is... just as the Hillary experience myth is the biggest fraud of this campaign


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Great speech by HRC. She clearly had some new lines. Barrack shouldn't get to far out on the bipartisan stuff. The "proud democrat" line was good.
BTW: Why is Kuchinch and Richardson allowed to speak? These guys are vain. Really .
by ND1979 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:49:23 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

i like kucinich.

Its sad though, if he looked like a bill clinton, or john edwards, he would be much more viable.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:54:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

LOL

I was thinking the same thing.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I liked the new parts of HRC's speech (none / 0)

She sounds really confident and it appears that she has shook off last night's results. It's a new day and a new beginning.

The speech was very appropriate for a Democratic gathering, which is what this dinner is. She was speaking to her audience. I don't understand why people would complain that she was speaking to the traditional base at a Democratic dinner. Aren't the people there Democrats? It's respectful to the group of Democrats to talk to the base. Oh, well, at mydd, Hillary can do no right and certain other candidates can do no wrong....

c'est la vie....


by ademption on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:49:42 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

On C-SPAN, the ticker reads "Richardson lays off staffers" as he takes the stage.

Poor guy.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:49:56 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

haha, ouch!


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:51:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

He gets to be one of four candidates at the Democratic debate for 90 minutes. He's very fortunate for that.


by Progressive America on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Her narrative is that she has always beaten the GOP. Period. Take a chance with a new, unproven candidate or nominate as prove winner, add in unmatched democratic enthusiasim and we have the WH. I am not about to take a chance on Obama. I never miss his speeches, love his youthful outlook, hopeful message but come on guys. Hope without ANY concrete proposals is dead. The GOP will chew him up and march right back into the WH. I can't wait until feb. 5th.


by ND1979 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:53:56 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Hmmm. "Vote for me because I can win." Not very inspiring. We went down that road with Bill and we got NAFTA and the destruction of the welfare system.


"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Amen. I could not have said it better. I am actually waiting for January 29, I am voting in the Florida primary absentee, as well as February 5th.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:56:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

That's exactly the problem...what kind of narrative is that? It's all about her, not about the country.

If she wins it, I will vote for her, but I hope she has something more compelling for the general.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:59:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

It is interesting that at every stage of Obama's improbable campaign some straw-man argument has been fabricated to support the argument that he can't, or shouldn't, win the Democratic nomination.  As each of them has been proven false and discarded, a new one immediately appears.

Curious, isn't it?


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (1.50 / 2)

I'm sorry, HOW has she beaten the GOP?  They beat back "Hillarycare" and had her as one of the most hated people in America until Bill's affair and her stoic handling of the situation.  She beat two minor candidates in Senate races, but has NEVER beaten anyone with a good organization, money etc.  She and Rudy were pretty even until Rudy dropped out due to the cancer.  

So show how she beaten the GOP... Kind of like how she was in single digits in Iowa, despite no one being able to find a poll showing that... not even her campaign.


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Richardson says something to the effect of "I am not the glamorous candidate." Yep, Richardson, you're about as far from glamorous as they come...we still love ya though.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:01:04 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

And Obama's narrative is not all about him? Please!


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:01:12 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

There is a cult of personality around Obama, no doubt (which has good and bad to it), but the difference in narrative (to me) is that Obama invites you to be part of a movement. HRC doesn't make that appeal, it is all about what she will be able to do for you because she is so competent and experienced.  


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:40:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Awwww....the kids have to sit down. Poor things.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:03:12 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Rubish, MYDD/dKos BS. Go back to days of Dukakis/Gore/Kerry/Mondale/Carter and remember how great you felt after losing. I can't stand my own party sometimes. The only democratic candidate to win in my lifetime and you bring up Nafta and welfare reform which actually proves my point. Being that you have to grab so far up your butt for any reason why the 1990's were a bad time.


by ND1979 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:03:38 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I see. So it doesn't matter what the Dems do once elected so long as they get elected. Well, I guess that's ONE way of looking at the world.  


"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:08:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Obama uses the words 'you' and 'we' almost as often as Hillary says 'I.'  That's the difference.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:08:15 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

He is talking about Iowa turnout...interesting...


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:08:34 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

"We are on the cusp of forging a new majority..."


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:10:02 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Solving problems 'festering long before George Bush ever took office.'  Ouch.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:11:51 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

what happend to his "lets not tear down others  let's build each other up?"


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

It's an election and he's ain't telling porkies either.  His point is that old Democratic strategies have failed to create the majorities necessary.  He is not a trench-fighter, committed to advancing the front-line by yards.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:15:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Ya see it's the triangulation again.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Yeah, whatever...


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I'm sorry, is it just me or is Obama's plan for change "Tell them they need to change"? Good luck.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:12:19 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Dude, please. If I have to rattle off the pros and cons of Clinton-Gore the pros will take up the maximum amount of space allowed leaving nothing for the cons. BTW, I you and your candidate want to debate the whether Bill Clinton is a good democrat, we can, but you won't like the end result. I assure you.


by ND1979 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:15:27 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I simply do not accept your basic premise that   the DLC, triangulation model, the Carvilles, Begallas, the "free-traders" who destroyed this country's manufacturing base, while turning their backs on the poor were swell. Sorry.    


"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

seconded.


zombies are coming
by leewesley on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Your compassion for the poor is overwhelming. But then I guess that's why your a DLCer. AS for NAFTA, read and learn my friend:
http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA_1 0_jobs.pdf
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:04:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Man, does this guy know how to leverage momentum or what?  Go, Obama...  The race is on.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:17:14 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

He is engaging and if it weren't for HRC, I would be 100% behind him. And will if (IF) he wins. But I don't think that is going to happen. When he has to move from hope to policy, he looks lost. The debate on saturday will remind YOU ALL why he lagged all the way in Iowa until the debates were OVER. HE and Axelrod are great at crafting speeching that are soaring, exactly what we democrate love. If ain't enough.

BTW: I have never said that Obama "has great ideas" and know of nobody who has.


by ND1979 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:19:32 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Did we forget about the final Debate that happened in Iowa?  Obama was either in the lead in polls or tied when that debate happened.  And many would say his great performance and Hillarys Shrill performance in the late NOV (I believe) debate was the turning point.  


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:20:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

'A gamble we can't afford.'  Hello, Bill?


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:21:14 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

'Not heat but also light.'  Hello, Mark?


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:22:25 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Even HRC supporters would have to admit, the impact of these speeches isn't even close...


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:23:23 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

very cocky... he has to win NH now


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:24:02 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

JJ was a great speakers The 1988 speech was the best I have ever heard. So? He loses on tuesday, he's done. Great speaker be damned. What is his organization going to beon feb. 5th where he hasn't had a WHOLE yaer to practice his GOTV? Where HRC has 20 years or built of chits?


by ND1979 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:27:08 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I agree, it'll be very interesting to see how well Obama's organization holds up to Clinton's organization, her connection and ties included.


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I can't stress it enough: What is going to happen when Jim Lehrer moderates the first debate between Obama and McCain and Obama put on the show he did in EVERY single freaking democratic debate in front of 60 million american viewers?Remember that Edwards did the punching against HRC in those debates why BO set back. I ain't gonna be pretty folks.


by ND1979 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:30:10 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 2)

Wow.  Ever get the impression you really are watching history in the making?


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:30:38 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 2)

He is in a zone.  


by Piuma on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:31:19 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

The call-in could be very interesting...


The best sig is no sig.
by Noonan on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:32:58 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Damned fine speech. I like how he worked the "building a majority" theme and appeal to GOTV into his stump speech.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:33:34 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I'm still not impressed. It's the same speech he has given before with no policy or substance.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:46:40 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (1.00 / 1)

You wouldn't be impressed unless he dropped out right there and endorsed Hillary.  You've already made up your mind and have no ability for objectivity after Hillary was defeated last night.  


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Interesting Different People's Perspectives... Halperin reported Obama's supporters loudly booing Hillary...

http://thepage.time.com/2008/01/04/boooo oooo/


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:52:56 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

You guys really are classy.


by souvarine on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Yah this and other threads show just how classy Clinton supporters have been...or did we forget Sheehan's comments?  

I actually think that booing her WAS wrong for the record.  I was surprised Todd didn't mention it was the point of the post.


by yitbos96bb on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:27:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Tu quoque = logical fallacy

(Tu quoque= two wrongs make a right)


by world dictator on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 11:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I think it was even better than the Iowa Caucus Victory speech.  It was Presidential.  It was transformational.  It was RFK & MLK.  It was 2008.  Obama is the next President.


by howardpark on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 09:55:33 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I think so too, although I agree with Todd a to some extent about it going a little long. High energy performances are best left a little too short than a little too long.


by DPW on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Oh Lord...he's inevititable is he? Iowa said so...so it must be true.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:02:38 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

They are dead even on Intrade for Dem nomination...I think that's about right.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:11:12 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

We should probably not bother woting then. Let's just hand it all to Obama and be done with it. since he's already won and all...Iowa decided.


by americanincanada on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

Bit of a knee jerk response there huh?:) I was saying I think Intrade is right that they both have a 50/50 shot at this point.


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Man, this is a gloomy thread. But mostly because of  a couple bitter, combative voices.  

We turned out twice the caucus that the GOP did. Somebody smile. :)


by JoeFelice on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:12:52 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 2)

It must be weird to be WJC watching an Obama speech...I imagine it is a strange mix of pride and dread...


by animated on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:15:51 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

does the obama website not have an explanation of his positions on the issues. no candidate uses their stump speech to outline the specifics of their policy. hrc tells us, in ten different ways, that shes been arund for 35 yrs and that obama has skeletons in his closet. edwards says he's a fighter. obama concentrates on being inspirational and saying that he will bring independents and repubs into the fold.


by highgrade on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 10:54:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (2.00 / 1)

Sorry I'm late. Someone said they were showing an Akira Kurosawa film festival around here somewhere...


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 11:02:43 PM EST

Re: 100 Club Dinner: The Presidentials Speak (none / 0)

I hear these comments about Obama's great oratory skills and how he moves ppeople. These people are not church goers obviously. These are the same sermons I have listened to every Sunday that i attend the downtown black church in my town. The sermons are fantastic and it makes you feel good. I'm afraid thats about all it does. The idea that the corporations running the world are inspired and ready to join hands as well as the money grubbing Republicans (Trent Lott goes to Kstreet) is a wonderful "DREAM". But thats all it is and we're setting ourselves up if you don't think the Obama dreamers aren't ready for the real world. We need action and fast. I still pray that AL GORE will enter the race. Remember him? He was the stiff one.


by glennmcgahee on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 01:16:31 PM EST


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