Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up in California

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Via Ben Smith, Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross of the San Francisco Chronicle have the details of some internal private polling from a group unaffiliated with the presidential primary here in California that suggests there may be some movement in the Democratic primary. Take a look:

The numbers are part of a nightly tracking poll being done by the anti-Indian-gaming initiative campaign, which has included a question on the presidential primaries.

[...]

On the Democratic side, the combined results of three nightly samplings of 400 different voters - for Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday - found Hillary Rodham Clinton at 36 percent, Obama at 31 percent and John Edwards at 12 percent.

But when taken alone, Sunday's tracking - just a day after Obama's big win in the South Carolina primary - had Obama leading Clinton, 35 percent to 32 percent, with Edwards' share growing to 16 percent. And pretty much the same numbers came up Monday.

To be clear, the results for a single day are going to both suffer from inherent problems in sampling in one-day polling and have a relatively high margin of error (I'm guessing in the range of plus or minus 8.5 points). As a result, it's worth taking these numbers with a grain of salt (even if they show movement, which these numbers apparently do). What's more, none of the half dozen public polls taken in the last two weeks in the state show Obama trailing by fewer than 5 points, and with the exception of a Rasmussen poll showing Clinton up only 5 points, the spread between the two candidates in California has not been in the single digits in any other poll since May.

That all said, take a gander at the trend in the state (click the image to enlarge) and you'll see that there's a relatively long term trend away from Clinton and towards Obama:

A whole heck of a lot of folks have already voted in California, so late-breaking trends may not have the same type of effects that they would in states that do not allow for early voting. What's more, much of California's spoils (in terms of delegates) are apportioned congressional district by congressional district rather than on a statewide basis, so where a candidate is surging and another is falling matters. Nevertheless, we just might have a race on our hands in the Golden state...



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Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

I would be very surprised if Obama comes away with a majority of the vote in CA. I don't think he's going to lose by 12 to 20 points like some of the polls said, but I doubt he's going to get more votes than Clinton.

But since this isn't a winner-take-all primary, they'll split the delegates almost 50/50. Obama may once again lose the popular vote but win more delegates like in Nevada.


by Kal on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:30:20 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

In the case of Super Tuesday delegates are going to matter a helluva lot more than the popular vote. If Obama takes nearly 50% of the delegates in most of the states and he and Clinton both gain an edge in a couple of states it is going to be a long drawn out campaign.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:33:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

I think that Clinton may win more states on 2/5, but Obama will win more delegates. It's possible.

If Obama is only down by 12 in New York and is tied with Clinton in places like Connecticut, I can see Clinton winning many states narrowly and Obama winning a few states like Illinois in a blowout.

Thanks to the proportional nature of the delegate system, Obama could come out as a winner even if Clinton wins more states. Nevada and New Hampshire at a marco level.


by Kal on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

Know if there have been any MA polls since the Kennedy endorsement? The earlier polls look as if the uphill climb is particularly steep in MA.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:49:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (2.00 / 1)

I haven't seen one in about a week. I doubt Obama is still 30 points behind there, but I don't think he's going to catch Clinton. I think the final results there will be something like 55-45.


by Kal on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

A new Rasmussen poll in Massachusetts shows that Hillary Clinton is now barely ahead of Barack Obama, in the wake of the Ted Kennedy endorsement. Hillary leads with 43%, followed by Obama at 37% and the now-departed John Edwards with 11%


by del on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:42:06 AM EST
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Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

If Hillary wins by just a point, she will declare a victory. If there were only more time for Obama to campaign in all of these Big Tuesday states.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

I understand that California awards 30% of it's delegates to the statewide winner.

Is that not the case?


by kristoph on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:44:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

I thought it was based on Congressional district for 70%, and the remaining 30% was divvied up based on the state-wide vote total. So if Clinton wins 52% of the vote state-wide, she'd win 52% of the at-large delegates.

I could be wrong, though.


by Kal on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:53:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

Nope

241 delegates get elected in Congressional districts -- because of the way our party rules work, it will be very hard for any candidate to run away with a big majority of those.

In addition there are 129 at statewide delegates tied to the results of the primary. ( 81 at large  and 48 "pledged party leaders and elected officials). Whatever the statewide vote % is will be reflected in those delegates -- so if it is 55-45, one candidate would get 71 delegates and the other one would get 58.

No 30% bonus for winning statewide


by lifelongdem on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If that happens... (none / 0)

...then Obama is in very good shape.  


by HSTruman on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

I say he'll lose the "popular vote" by 5 to 10 points.  But Tuesday isn't about winning states, but rather delegates, which means the candidates are targeting particular congressional districts more than states.

If Obama makes an appearance in the Bay Area and another in LA and draws large enthusiastic crowds like today's in Denver, He should get a healthy share of the delegates.  In the Bay Area, Edwards' leaving the race helps Obama.  Maybe not elsewhere.


by Drummond on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Most polls this week will favor Barry (none / 0)

Any polls coming out today would have been done on Sunday, Monday that should favor him. But you should wait for polls that show the impact of FL and Edwards leaving that wont show up till next Monday best case Sat or Sun.


by bayareasg on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:39:05 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

A one day poll by a nameless firm, whose goal was to poll something else entirely. It's data, but it's not clear if it's information.


by OrangeFur on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:40:43 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

Can't we leave the small sample single day polls to openleft? Even the Obama supporters here won't fall for those.


by souvarine on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:42:25 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

Everybody's anxious.  The big polls haven't really come out yet, so any news is going to be grabbed and squeezed for all its worth, and spun regardless of how it goes.


by Drummond on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:16:08 PM EST
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Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

There was a SurveyUSA poll on the 27th (one day only). A much reputable and larger firm, with a MUCH larger sample (888LV)

Here are the results ...

Clinton 49
Obama 38
Edwards    9


by kristoph on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:42:46 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

I heard on NPR this morning that they way they apportion the delegates could work to Obama's favor, particularly for late voters.  Apparently the way the party apportions delegates is based on a precincts loyalty to the Dem party in prior elections.  Precincts can get between 3-6 delegates.  the Precincts that are largely African American get 6 delegates and those that are Latino get 3-4.  In addition, the districts that are the base of the Democratic leadership (e.g. Pelosi) also get 6 delegates.  I am not sure what all this means except that a close vote could actually favor Obama in delegates if he tends to win in the districts with higher delegates.  What a crazy system!


Health care is a human right
by Helenann on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:53:11 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

Are you talking about caucuses? That sounds a lot like the process that desmoinesdem and desmoulins described for the Iowa and Nevada caucuses.


by OrangeFur on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:58:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

No - I am talking about the CA democratic primary.  The guest was Bruce Cain, Professor of Political Science at UC Berkeley who is a scholar on voting and California elections in particular.


Health care is a human right
by Helenann on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

They base the division of delegates is by congressional district. They are divided by the number of Democratic presidential votes in previous elections. Because Latinos tend to have relatively low turnout (especially because of the heavy number of Latinos under 18, non-citizens, and low registration rates) , heavily Latino districts don't end up with as many delegates as other districts do.  For example, Loretta Sanchez's district only gets 3 delegates, her sister Linda's gets 4.  But Pelosi's district, Maxine Waters district, Barabra Lee's district, Henry Waxman's district etc get more delegates because they turn out big numbers of demorcatic votes for president

It is extremely complicated how the delegates get divided between candidates, but it is really hard for one candidate or another to run up a big lead in delegates from the districts if there is a race that is at all close.


by lifelongdem on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

I agree with the above comment that this poll seems rather dubious. California IS Clinton country and she will win, the margin could be like Florida, espcially with the what? 1M absentee ballots? Plus, she is going to be there with Dianne Feinstein and Antonio Villariogoss and Speaker Nunez.

SHE WILL WIN CALIFORNIA! This poll does not sound right and the all of a sudden 20ish point drops in 3 days? Something doesn't sound right.


by American1989 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:55:33 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

This is not clear.  There are 30 million people who live in this state and most of the polls do not capture the new and younger voters Obama is bringing in to vote.  I think the trends are interesting but I think we have learned that the polls can be way off.


Health care is a human right
by Helenann on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:07:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)

   Do you live in California? DiFi, Tony V. and Fabian are not as popular as they used to be. Here in L.A. there are a lot of people who are former supporters of Antonio and Fabian who are now disappointed and disgruntled. We pretty much wrote off Dianne a long time ago; her endorsement doesn't carry much weight at least among Democratic activists. The people that were for Edwards (including myself) are more likely to break in favor of Barry instead of Billary. Now I would agree that activists are not necessarily representative of the larger electorate, but I've seen movement towards him among coworkers who are not so politically active. My best friend at work switched from Clinton to Obama just in the last week because he didn't like the way Bill was campaigning for Hillary.
     The situation is very fluid; we don't know what will happen, and it isn't anywhere the certainty of ALLCAPS AND AN EXCLAMATION POINT!
     We will know sometime around 10PM Pacific Time, with the delegate counts trickling in later. As usual L.A. County will be one of the last to report. Get a hold of yourself, it will be OK whatever happens...
by Zack from the SFV on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 02:24:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We're succumbing to poll mania (none / 0)

An unknown poll from an unknown organization and it becomes serious evidence all of a sudden. Is Clinton going to win CA by 20% no, she never was. Is she going to win by about 5-10% almost certainly. This poll is not going to change my basic opinion.


by ottovbvs on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:57:39 PM EST

Re: Internal Polling: Obama Reportedly Moving Up i (none / 0)


During a conference call with state reporters, the campaign noted the importance of early voting by mail. Fabian Nunez, speaker of the California Assembly, said more votes will be cast by mail in California than were cast in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina combined. "In some cases, enough votes are gonna be banked [before Feb. 5] to win the contest," Nunez said.

The most recent figures obtained from the California Association of County Election Officials (CACEO) show that 1,132,877 mail-in ballots have been returned, out of the more than 5 million that were requested. But CACEO president Steven Weir estimates that the actual number of returned ballots is already over 2 million. Weir also predicts that 47% of all votes will be cast by mail.

In 2004, just under 3 million votes were cast in the Democratic primary, while 2.1 million votes were cast in the uncontested Republican primary. For that primary, as with this one, there were also ballot initiatives driving some of the turnout. Weir says some of the ballots that have been returned actually indicate no choice for president. "[Some] came out to vote for the props," he said. "But this is being driven by the top of the tickets."

Capitalizing on these early voters was clearly a strategy of the Clinton campaign. "The more votes we can lock in now while she's still leading with double digits, is what some would all an insurance policy," said Luis Vizcaino, spokesperson for the Clinton campaign here.


Offend the Media - Vote for Hillary!
by Seymour Glass on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:59:39 PM EST

Obama may well be up (none / 0)

but I stopped think it was something credible right about here -"poll being done by the anti-Indian-gaming initiative campaign"


by Cleveland John on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:01:47 PM EST

Re: Obama may well be up (none / 0)

They have at least 4 propositions on the ballot and are heavily advertising.  They have as much if not more interest in the outcome as the candidates.  


Health care is a human right
by Helenann on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:09:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Honestly ... it basically says (none / 0)

Some people, that want to find out how something not related to the presidential primaries, asked a few hundred people some sort of question, not specified, that lead them to believe Obama was up over Clinton.


by Cleveland John on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:22:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Even worse (none / 0)

It was 400 voters over 3 days ......but when broken down to only one day ...which means 'On Sunday, they asked 133 people who they would vote for' ...so 6 or 7 more people said "Obama".


by Cleveland John on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:29:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

California (none / 0)

If Obama "wins" the debate tomorrow night, and the California media reports it as such, and the California media reports each day from now on, that Obama's poll numbers in California are going up, and the California media reports the fact that virtually every single newspaper in the state has endorsed Obama, Obama might just squeek by with a popular vote win. (Of course, who has the LA Times endorsed?)

Creating a sense of "a growing groundswell for Obama" is Obama's best hope for prevailing in California.

Obama will have a tougher time winning a majority of the delegates in California.  There are an awful lot of Central Valley CD's that would have split their votes between Edwards, Obama and Clinton.  And now, with Edwards out...these CD's will likely go much more strongly toward Clinton, earning her the approximately 20 delegates that would have gone to Edwards.  

Make no mistake about it:  Edwards had strength in the California Central Valley, even earning his one California newspaper endorsement there- the Fresno Bee.  Look for Hillary to pick up some extra delegates there that she would not otherwise have had.  

On the other hand, Edwards dropping out will help Obama to get some more delegates in the SF Bay Area...delegates that would have gone to Edwards.

Clinton would have to be favored to win the popular vote and the delegate counts in California, but it will not be a blowout unless Obama consistently fails to make 30% in lots of Central Valley CD's.  

And if Obama manufactures that groundswell...who knows what could happen? He is going to need some incredible TV ads...


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:10:31 PM EST

like this one? (none / 0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVlnL1_xX JM


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wasn't Obama trailing in SC, too? (none / 0)

There's no early voting down here but Obama's people can get out the vote and his personal appearances will boost his vote.

No doubt he'll settle for the "consolation prize" of more delegates and a narrow popular vote difference.


by Southern Patriot on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:35:23 PM EST

Re: Rasmussen poll on CA (none / 0)

CLINTON 43
OBAMA 40

The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in California shows Hillary Clinton with a very narrow three-percentage point lead over Barack Obama. The survey was conducted in the hours immediately following Florida's Presidential Primary and before John Edwards dropped out of the race.


by BDM on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 12:13:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen poll on CA (none / 0)

Scales are tipping. I'm worried about a nail-biter. Plus Oprah and Maria Shriver (just a hunch), both Kennedy's.


by India on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 12:51:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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