Barack Obama and the White Vote

There's been a lot of talk about some sort of "white backlash" now that Barack Obama has demonstrated his ability to win an overwhelming percentage of the African-American vote.  Some people postulate a backlash because Obama has either defined himself, or been defined by others, as the so-called "black candidate" at this juncture.

I'm not at all interested in getting into the topic of who did what to whom, and I'll tell you right up front that there is nothing negative in this diary.  I'm even hoping, somewhat audaciously, to keep the comments that way.

Obama's claim to 25% of white voters in South Carolina is not shabby at all in a three-way race.  I'd say he definitely exceeded expectations considering some polls had him as low as 10% among this demographic.  On the other hand, it's not all that encouraging to finish third among white voters even in the midst of a smashing victory.

This has led some to speculate that 25% is now roughly Obama's cap among white voters, and that simple math leads one to conclude he'll have a hard time staying competitive outside of a few heavily black states in the South.  My own feeling, and what I want to talk about in this diary, is that you simply can't generalize the white vote like this on a nationwide basis.  I can't explain it any other way than to get personal...

A Historical Vignette

Everyone knows Martin Luther King, Jr.'s famous "I Have A Dream" speech, delivered in August 1963 at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington.  What most people don't know is that the ringing conclusion to that speech actually derives from a speech MLK gave two months previously, in my hometown of Detroit on June 22, 1963:

As I move toward my conclusion, you're asking, I'm sure, "What can we do here in Detroit to help in the struggle in the South?" Well, there are several things that you can do...

...the second thing that you can do to help us down in Alabama and Mississippi and all over the South is to work with determination to get rid of any segregation and discrimination in Detroit, realizing that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. And we've got to come to see that the problem of racial injustice is a national problem. No community in this country can boast of clean hands in the area of brotherhood. Now in the North it's different in that it doesn't have the legal sanction that it has in the South. But it has its subtle and hidden forms and it exists in three areas: in the area of employment discrimination, in the area of housing discrimination, and in the area of de facto segregation in the public schools. And we must come to see that de facto segregation in the North is just as injurious as the actual segregation in the South.  And so if you want to help us in Alabama and Mississippi and over the South, do all that you can to get rid of the problem here...

And so I go back to the South not in despair. I go back to the South not with a feeling that we are caught in a dark dungeon that will never lead to a way out. I go back believing that the new day is coming. And so this afternoon, I have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day, right down in Georgia and Mississippi and Alabama, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to live together as brothers.

I have a dream this afternoon that one day, one day little white children and little Negro children will be able to join hands as brothers and sisters.

I have a dream this afternoon that one day, that one day men will no longer burn down houses and the church of God simply because people want to be free.

I have a dream this afternoon that there will be a day that we will no longer face the atrocities that Emmett Till had to face or Medgar Evers had to face, that all men can live with dignity.

I have a dream this afternoon that my four little children, that my four little children will not come up in the same young days that I came up within, but they will be judged on the basis of the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

I have a dream this afternoon that one day right here in Detroit, Negroes will be able to buy a house or rent a house anywhere that their money will carry them and they will be able to get a job.

Yes, I have a dream this afternoon that one day in this land the words of Amos will become real and "justice will roll down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."

I have a dream this evening that one day we will recognize the words of Jefferson that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." I have a dream this afternoon.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and "every valley shall be exalted, and every hill shall be made low; the crooked places shall be made straight, and the rough places plain; and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together."

I have a dream this afternoon that the brotherhood of man will become a reality in this day.

And with this faith I will go out and carve a tunnel of hope through the mountain of despair. With this faith, I will go out with you and transform dark yesterdays into bright tomorrows. With this faith, we will be able to achieve this new day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing with the Negroes in the spiritual of old:

Free at last! Free at last!

Thank God almighty, we are free at last!

Now, MLK was thoughtful enough not to pick on Detroit when he went to Washington to give the more famous version of this speech.  But he was right about the problems in Detroit and other industrial cities across the North, of course.  Four years later, one of the formative events in Detroit history came to pass, the race riots of 1967.

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I could write a whole diary on the history of the riots, on how President Johnson bickered with Governor George Romney (whose son you know) over whether to send in federal troops.  How Congressman John Conyers bravely, yet unsuccessfully, tried to quell the unrest.  But that's not what's important.  What's important is that the tragedy of the riots exacerbated all the existing racial problems in Detroit, most notably the problem of so-called "white flight" to the suburbs.  Black residents, even successful ones, were unable to follow, as a consequence of the housing discrimination referenced in MLK's speech; realtors simply wouldn't show homes in white neighborhoods to black families.  Businesses and jobs left for the suburbs as well, and the economic decline of Detroit accelerated.

The Story Becomes About Me

This is how things looked when I was born, in the spring of 1970.  I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood just about a mile north of 8 Mile Road, which Eminem later made famous as the divide between black Detroit and the white suburbs.  8 Mile really did have powerful symbolism in those days; I suppose many white folks thought it as the southern boundary of civilization, although this being the North, they were mostly polite enough not to put it that way.

As time went by, white folks had less and less reason to venture into Detroit.  The flagship of the downtown retail community, the glorious Hudson's Department Store, closed in 1983, largely because whites had all started doing their shopping in the suburbs.  When I was young - I can't even remember the year - a couple white suburbanites were shot while attending the fireworks display at the annual International Freedom Festival in Downtown Detroit.  A decade later, it was common to hear suburban families say they wouldn't attend the fireworks because of "all the danger."  They were still talking about that single episode of violence from years before.

The mayor of Detroit during this period was a black man named Coleman Young, who once upon a time had told off the House Un-American Activities Committee by saying: "You have me mixed up with a stool pigeon."  Notwithstanding that auspicious beginning to his career, Mayor Young was an incredibly corrupt politican whose chief tool in holding onto office was exploiting racial politics to the hilt.  Every election, like clockwork, Young would accuse his opponent of being in the pocket of the moneyed interests from north of 8 Mile Road - in short, no matter how black they might be, they became the "white candidate."  Employing this strategy, he always won reelection easily, even as the economic decline of Detroit continued.  White suburbanites were, naturally, repulsed by Young's tactics and the way he managed to hold onto power even though "everyone" knew he was a terrible mayor.  They all genuinely wanted the best for Detroit, one might say, as long as they never had to go there.

My Misspent Youth

I don't remember a single act of overt racism from my childhood, yet it was somehow understood that if a black family visited the upscale shopping mall, they'd probably get followed around pretty closely by a security guard because they "didn't belong."  In high school, I worked for a local lawyer who told me he couldn't hire a black secretary, not because he had a racist bone in his body, you see, but because he knew it would upset his clients.  (Young liberal that I was, I tried and tried to persuade him to hire a certain black woman who was clearly the most qualified applicant; he finally relented and did the right thing, and then she didn't show up for her first day of work.  So much for that story.)

There were a few black families in the community, but decades of de facto segregation take a long time to break down.  In fact, when diversity finally came around, it was mostly attributable to immigrant communities (Indians, Chaldeans, Armenians) than to migration of blacks from Detroit proper.  I can offer no better description of the community than by pointing out that when my school held a mock election in 1984, Reagan got 100% of the vote.  (I blame it on peer pressure; I really did like Mondale!)

When Jesse Jackson won Michigan in 1988, I'm fairly certain he didn't get a lot of votes in my hometown.  What's relevant, though, is the reason why.  I don't believe there was simple racism so much as there was a polarized community with an instinctive revulsion to what would have been perceived as "racial politics."  After all, Jesse was going around Detroit campaigning for the votes of those black folks; ergo, he's just one of those "black politicians."  Reagan wasn't overtly racist, after all, but he sure got a lot of votes by speaking in code to people like my neighbors.  

Fast-Forward to Today

But time changes everything.  In 2004, in Oakland County which used to be solid Reagan Republican territory, Kerry and Bush split the vote 50/50.  Part of this is because the Republican Party has moved away from fiscal conservatism, but most of it simply has to do with changing demographics and the fact that de facto segregation barriers finally broke down.  When I go back to my old high school, the student body looks nothing like how it used to.  I couldn't be prouder.  I could easily, easily see this diverse community voting for Barack Obama, and I don't just mean the minority residents of the diverse community.

In my simplistic version of history, I think the 60s and 70s were pretty much about race, and the 80s were about a backlash against race.  But we're 20 years past that, and I think the relevant question is not whether Barack Obama bears a resemblance to Jesse Jackson, but whether there are more communities across America which simply don't care whether he does.

I think the biggest problem Obama faces with white voters, in terms of being seen as a "black politician," is in places that are polarized the way my hometown used to be.  Those still exist, obviously, but no longer is that the story of the entire country.  And in lily-white places like Iowa, he obviously doesn't have an African-American base but he also doesn't have to deal with white voters who have an instinctive revulsion to racial politics, so I'm again not sure the problem comes up.

As we go forward in this election, I have a feeling Barack Obama will continue to do better among white voters than people imagine.  Just like everyone else, I have only one personal history to draw impressions from, but I think I can tell a pretty compelling story of a place that used to be polarized beyond belief and has changed dramatically in the last 20 years, and no longer lives in fear of the "black candidate."  And if you don't believe the polarization was really that bad, you can take it up with Martin Luther King.



Display:


Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

Certainly we are better than we used to be but I don't think that we're there yet.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:22:43 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

I'd like to hear other people's stories, too.

One of the more fascinating things from yesterday's exit poll was that only 5% of respondents believed the country was "definitely not ready" for a black President, and - get this - 9% of the people in that category voted for Obama anyway!  (Another 17% of voters said the country is "probably not ready," and Obama got a full 27% of the voters in that category.)  I mean, in all seriousness, that's the spirit.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

I've always said that understanding and addressing racial issues doesn't mean they control you. so yeah I can see people voting the way they did. Sadly they aren't the majority of people.

That's true for Clinton regarding gender as well.


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:36:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

I think gender is more murky than race in a lot of ways.  I feel like race is more solvable.

The thing is, we all come from very different backgrounds when it comes to race, everyone's perspective is unique.  You don't hear people say "I come from a community that was torn asunder by gender" or "I come from an all-male community" or anything of the sort.  So at least when it comes to gender we sort of have a common referent.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

i thinkt he opposite. this country will address gender before race if for no other reason than white straight men marry women and have daughters. no such relationship exists with race.


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Well, something similar does kinda sorta exist.  See, e.g., Barack Obama.

I'd also note that white guys have been having daughters for a long time and yet, here we are!  But I do understand what you're saying.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:22:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

I don't think you undertand race here. He's exempted from the black condition by whites. Thats the point of the magic negro diary I've written. If he's not exempt, then he faces people lik ehwc below or more than willing to use race against him. he can only discuss race so long as he's safely not of the race.


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 03:32:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Again. You don't know me or the "black" candidates I have voted for over the years.

But, call me a racist because I don't think that the color of Obama's skin makes him qualified to be President with just two years experience beyond the level of state legistlator. Apparently, it's "racist" if we don't suspend the normal standards because a candidate is black.

It is this "crying wolf" with charges of racism that generates "backlash".


by hwc on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

If I were calling you racist, I would say "hwc is a racist." Find that along this thread. If you can't, then that's not what I said. But I can see why your amoral behavior may confuse you as to how others aren't as amoral as you.


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:41:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hwc, you would have more credibility (2.00 / 1)

on this if you hadn't spent the past six months telling everyone who criticized Hillary that they were sexist. You even admitted using this tactic in this comment:

http://mydd.com/comments/2008/1/21/10341 6/345?pid=111#134

Obama played the race card in an effort to blunt the criticism of his thin record. The narrative goes like this: "You are only attacking me because you are a racist and I'm a black man."

It's the same thing I do when I brand criticism of Clinton as sexism. The difference is that the media is accepting of, and even participates in, sexist attacks, while being hyper-sensitive to anything that could be construed as racism.

From a political strategy standpoint, there's a big difference. Clinton can afford to "play the gender card" because 54% of the electorate is "her people" -- a majority. Obama's situation is different in that only a small minority of the electorate is on board with him when he plays the race card.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Brings up a lot of thoughts. (none / 0)

Gender and racial issues have been in my thoughts for the past year. As a father of both a daughter and interracial children I have decided that at this time over coming the racial divide means a lot more to me than correcting inequality regarding gender, though over coming gender inequality means a lot to me. For the past 20 years of my life I have been out spoken more in favor of feminism (though in my own twist that women should never see their sexuality and sexual capabilities, or perceived lack there of, as impediments) than of racial equality, but I see gender inequality as inevitably vanishing (I have written about that many times before when I predicted that slowly the legislatures and CEO boards will reach a 50-50 split between men and women), but the dismantling of the racial (or ethnic) divide is not inevitable, nor is it even certain. I would rather see gender inequality vanish sooner rather than later, but it will vanish (unless peak oil sends the world back to the dark ages), but will my children be able to marry African Americans without it being considered controversial by many?

MLK had a dream, and as I said, I have it framed on my bedroom wall.

From the beginning I never saw Obama as a black man (few people did), but rather as an interracial man. True, Obama's father was African, which is why Obama's skin is darker than that of most African Americans, but his father left when he was 2 years old. Obama was raised by his white mother in his early childhood and then by his white grandparents in his teenage years. Obama is a biracial man, and he is a stronge figure among us that are truly color blind in regards to race, heritage, or ethnic back ground.

Starting back in January of 2007 I had strong feelings for both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, which is why I have praised both of them, but as of late I have started to lean towards Obama as I do not like Bill and Hillary's negative campaigning against a fellow Democratic, at a time when I want unity and the political, racial, ethnic, and gender divides put to rest.

Also keep in mind Obama never played the gender card in any shape of form, and never compared Clinton to Susan B Anthony in a questionable way.

In the 2008 general election the main women's issue that concerns me is Roe vs Wade, and all of the Democrats have made it clear that they will protect that ruling, and all the Republicans candidate, with the exception of Rudy, have said they would work to get it over ruled.


"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:38:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

From my experience, people won't admit to that kind of thing at least in the south. They'll say that the country is ready but find some other excuse not to vote for him.

The media has done Obama no great favors by making it black vs. white with the whites being the racists. It sets up a bad situation for the g.e. if he's the nominee. The GOP won't care about being called racists and it becomes us vs. them-the lowest common denominator politics that they are masters of. All they have to do is raise enough doubt in the minds of soccer moms, working class whites and hispanics to make him lose.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

The Repubs will just do ads with Obama quoting Malcolm X all week in South Carolina, interspersed with clips of Malcolm X in the Spike Lee film.


by hwc on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:38:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (1.33 / 3)

Maybe not:


Surveys of voters leaving the polls showed that many Democrats who believed that Mr. Clinton's role in the campaign was important ended up voting for Mr. Obama.

Last week, Clinton advisers believed Mr. Clinton was rattling Mr. Obama and drawing his focus away from his message of moving beyond the politics of the 1990's and the Bush presidency. The results on Saturday indicated, instead, that voters were impressed with Mr. Obama's mettle and agreed with him that the Clintons ran an excessively negative campaign here.

"The criticism of Obama ended up really helping him going forward, I think," said Congressman James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, an influential black Democrat who remained neutral in the primary. "If he ends up winning the nomination, he will definitely face an onslaught of attacks this fall, and he may look back on South Carolina as the place that toughened him up."

Patrick Healy - Obama Weathers a Test of Mettle NYT 27 Jan 08

I think it would be good for the nation and the party if the Clinton 'Southern Strategy' produces a backfire instead of a backlash.  I know you are happy to see the black alignment with the Democratic party devolve into a party-preferred, issues based loyalty thereby relieving the party of a component of their platform.  I disagree, it seems natural, from a historical and ideological perspective, for this alignment to be maintained.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Please keep the "Southern strategy" smear out of my diary.  I expressly said I didn't want to get into that crap.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (1.33 / 3)

What other 'shorthand' for the significant identity politics tactic of the Clinton campaign would you prefer?  It seems an appropriate handle and has at least some currency in the blogosphere:


Black bloggers are asking many of the same questions and coming to pretty much the same conclusions regarding Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton's "Southern Strategy."

AAPP - Hillary Clinton's Southern Strategy - Black Voters and Black Bloggers African American Political Pundit 23 Jan 08

I didn't make this up, and I certainly admire and have recommended your diary for the good will and pragmatic content it contains.  Hopefully, as Obama supporters chanted at his SC victory speech, 'Race doesn't matter.'  It would be better if that was an idea supported in the electoral calculus of the Hillary campaign but perhaps that is too much to hope for.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 07:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

I took the time to write a nice diary, which I thought reflected favorably on your candidate, and now you just pissed all over it again with a smear that you know I find unacceptable.  

I am done with you, period.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 07:21:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

It's your diary and you can troll-rate if you want to.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 07:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

When I tell you something is offensive to me and you immediately post a second link to the same offensive thing, that's behaving like a straight-up asshole, is what it is.  Learn how to respect people.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 07:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

I've repeatedly indicated that I respect you, but where does that extend to imposing your view on a matter of opinion where we disagree?  That seems to be your position.  I have attempted to demonstrate that I am not making this up, that there are legitimate grounds to make this argument.  If you disagree you are entitled to make your counter-argument but you seem to think this is a personal matter.

I accept that you have a more substantial case for controlling the discourse in your own diary, and fair enough.  But to make a case for imposing your antipathy to this view across the board seems a bit of a stretch, frankly.  Argue your position if it is so strong.  Neither you nor I nor the Clinton's are racists.  That's not the point.

There is a pretty strong case which has been made against this identity politics tactic in the blogosphere and the punditry at large, why am I not entitled to make my case for my position?  If I am wrong I bear the consequences.

I appreciate the conciliatory and enlightened thesis of your diary and recommended it without hesitation accordingly, but how does that make my argument regarding the events of the last few weeks invalid or inappropriate?  Are you planning to zero-rate all of my subsequent comments on the subject if I continue to hold a view which you oppose elsewhere on this site?  I have not violated any of the house-rules on decorum or posting that I am aware of, and I accept that it is your right to zero-rate whatever you want in your own diary, but does this attitude extend to the entire forum?  Seems a bit presumptuous if it does.

What's the underlying ethic that has aroused such strong reaction from you anyhow?  Party loyalty?  The reputations of Democratic past-presidents and leaders?  Seems you care about such things more than the Clintons, at least in this instance.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 07:46:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Jay Cost had an interesting post on this yesterday:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horsera ceblog/2008/01/demography_and_the_democr atic.html


by animated on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:38:22 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Nice sentiment Steve. All is better, than it used to be. But as you said in your diary, there are still areas in the country in which Obama will not do well. That's just a fact, a sad fact, but true. Whether you believe Obama is now the "black candidate" is irrelevant-numbers speak louder than words. Obama's white vote started to slip long before SC-it started in NH. Those are the facts. His numbers started to slip when race became an issue and more AAs started to switch their support to Obama. That's a fact. I hope Obama will be able to get more of the White vote. Prove me and other wrongs. However, I am skeptical.

I went to a school that was heavily Jewish. I went to so many barmitzvahs and batmitzvah, I dream about matzah balls-which I love. I have no doubt these people liked me-we were friends. My point is, I was known as the AA girl-in the accelerated cases. True enough it was a different time, but I was still the AA girl. Obama is still an AA man. For some people that is all that matters.


by lonnette33 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:39:49 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

By the way, I born in 1972.


by lonnette33 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

I hear ya Lonnette.  One of my best friends in high school was one of the few black kids in school.  He got his doctorate and now he does studies on skin-tone discrimination by blacks against other blacks.  Still a lot of work to be done...


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the dynamic at my high school (none / 0)

which was almost totally white and very conformist, was that many of the minority kids bonded with each other.

My group of close friends from high school (and I am still in touch with almost all of these people 20 years later) looked like this: two Jews, one black, two Korean-Americans, one person of Iranian descent, and four WASPs who were way out of step with the rest of their families.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 03:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

"accelerated classes"


by lonnette33 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Rec'd


by lonnette33 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:43:36 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

Steve:

I think you misread the backlash. It's not racism. It's a backlash against:

a) The African American community demanding undue clout over the Democratic Party, not as a part of a coalition, but as a "separatist" interest group.

b) Defining every issue along racial lines

c) Charging racism to deflect any questioning of African American political issues (for example, charging that it is "racist" to question the experience of a candidate running for President two years after leaving a state legistlature.

To illustrate: Most Americans strongly support giving African Americans every advantage in hiring, contracting, and education. However, the same majority of Americans recoils at "affirmative action" quotas as an entitlement.


by hwc on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:01:29 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

horse shit.

a) You confuse any with undue. THe issue most have had is that we had any influence at all, not undue amount. It's also very Orwellian of you to post this crap. Whites are the ones who have had undue influence over blacks in this society, not the reverse.

b) Race has been used by both Clinton and Obama, and in many cases in unacceptable ways. Please stop pretending it was on or the other.

c) And the stuff about race coming from you when you have used gender to deflect from concerns over CLinton is rich. This was an otherwise could diary until you brough in the spin cycle.


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

While I'm certainly not on board with justifying the backlash in those terms, he's still describing a perception that does exist in the real world and is, in some ways, avoidable by the Obama campaign.

Attracting large numbers of black votes, on the other hand, is pretty much unavoidable which is why I wrote a diary about whether that would lead to a backlash in and of itself.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

I would give hwc the benefit of the doubt if he had a track record of coming into conversations honestly.

If he were merely discussing the phenomenon rather than trying to use it to his advantage, then you would not have seen my reaction.  


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 03:29:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Well, bruh...you don't know me and you shouldn't jump to conclusions. My daughter attends one of the most diverse elite colleges in the country. Less than half of its admissions acceptances each year go to white American students, due to one of the most aggressive affirmative action programs in the country. It has set record for African American freshman enrollments (of all first tier colleges and universities in the country) twice in the last five years. My daughter (and our entire family) picked the college, to a very large degree, because of its commitment to diversity. I am a strong supporter of affirmative action.

So, don't make assumptions.

Now, let me give you another perspective. There are white Democrats who are LIVID that leaders such as LBJ, Bill Clinton, and Hillary Clinton have been slandered as racists by the African American community. Livid. My god, Bill Clinton, from his offices in Harlem, has done more to fight AIDS in Africa and a myriad of charitable efforts in the United States than almost anyone in the country over the last five years. But, throw a life of inclusiveness out the window to glibly throw around BS charges of racism for political convenience. Is there a backlash. You bet your ass there's a backlash.


by hwc on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

I know you are willing say anything and none of which I can be certain is true or just shit you are making up to win the argue of the moment. You said all you needed to say with the comments about Edwards wife and why Clinton needed to vote for the Iraqi War to win the nomination now. I know you from your attacks on Obama for what was essentially one of the few times that it was clear Obama was standing up for progressive values. In other words, your track record leads me not to believe a word you type.


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Oh and re affirmative action-- your point about americans being ignorant- since the former thing you mention is exactly the same as the later isn't an incentive to prove your point that its about AAs  and use of race. It's about theri ignorant in confusing affirmative action with quotas. Which again seems to be the point ofyour post- or as my friend calls it the poor oppressed angry WASP middle class male syndrome.


by bruh21 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

I'm addressing a more limited issue in this diary.  I'm looking at the narrow question of whether there's an inevitable backlash simply from the fact that a candidate gets a huge percentage of the AA vote.

The stuff you mention is an issue but it's not an "inevitable" issue, it all depends on how they choose to run their campaign going forward.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:10:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

No. In a generic sense, the backlash wouldn't be inevitable. For example, there is no backlash against Clinton for winning the overwhelming majority of Latino/a votes.

The backlash comes from the way a political group frames itself. For reasons that I will leave to others to explain, the African American political base is perceived as using the politics of victimhood and "us versus them" and litmus tests in a way that generates backlash even among people who are generally sympathetic to the broad goals. For example, the absurdity of the African American community charging Obama with not being "black enough" or John Lewis with being an "uncle tom".


by hwc on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

The primary results represent the choice of three (by registered dems only).  There will be a huge anti-hillary movement among independants in the GE....especially if her campaign continues along the "inevitability track"
Edwards doesn't seem to have the support he needs to take this thing to convention, but he probably has the power now to pick the next POTUS.
by citizendave on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

If you think the black community is demanding undue influence on a party that has taken it for granted for a generation, at least, I think  you are delusional.  


by HSTruman on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

Have to agree the so called backlash is not racism per se it's more just tribalism. Like female tribalism or polish tribalism. What no one is in any doubt about coming out of SC is that Obama won because of massive AA support. Now you can argue whether this is a plus or a minus. What is surely clear by now is the various demographic building blocs that make up Clintons coalition and those that make up Obama's. The slight wild card here is Edwards and where his vote goes because it's hard to see him getting into double figures in any the upcoming races. More likely he's around 5%. That said what happens in each state depends on the relative positions of the respective coalitions in those states. That at least is my theory and until FL I'm sticking to it. FL will confirm or deny my thesis.      


by ottovbvs on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

I think it is incredibly important to think about this in regional terms.

Obama drawing 25% of the white vote in 3 way race in a southern state is incredible. Southern politics have been shaped by race in a huge way, even within the Democratic party. When there are southern primaries for statewide office, the vote is almost always racially polarized if there are black/white candidacies (Cleo Fields in Louisiana, Dan Blue in NC, Denise Majette in Georgia, Kweisi Mfume in MD - if you want to consider Maryland southern) -- in southern contested primaries, there is often a huge racial divide, and black candidates haven't been able to crossover very often.

You're dead on in identifying the geography of the issue -- race is far less of an issue in voter behavior in Iowa or New Hampshire or other states where politics hasn't been defined in part by racial division. But clearly there are plenty of parts of the country (I'd argue mainly in the south and a variety of northern industrial cities) where race has been huge in shaping political attitudes.

Particularly telling to me was Obama winning a majority of young white votes -- an encoruaging sign that perhaps those historical divisions are starting to disappear with  a new generation. (And that is certainly consistent with a lot of other non-political evidence that in many places these days young people are more likely than ever before to have friends mixed by race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc)

But it would be a huge mistake to think that 25% is his limit among white voters in Democratic primaries. I think there is plenty of evidence that it is possible for African-American candidates to win significantly higher white vote totals, to not be viewed simply as the "black candidate". Obviously you start off with Obama's impressive totals in Iowa and NH -- showing he has that kind of appeal. But increasingly we've seen places across the country where black candidates win nominations or general elections  in majority white jurisdictions.

I mean who would have thought that Deval Patrick could win in a state like Massachusetts with such a small black population, after the history of controversy and violence in the 1970s over bussing? A black Democratic attorney general in Georgia? A black governor in Virginia, home of "massive resistance" to integration?

I'm not blind on the subject -- there are still plenty of white Americans, yes white Democrats, who may find it difficult to vote for an African-American candidate. People don't easily leave their history behind them (white or black or Latino or Asian or Native). But I also think the very nature of a candidate like Obama challenges that -- when voters see him, they see a candidate who speaks far more broadly than race, who appeals to them on a different level.

I (barely) remember the 1960 election. For years Catholic politicians had been relegated to being "ethnic" candidates, winning in cities with big Irish, Italian, Polish populations. JFK managed to break that glass ceiling, by convincing Americans that he could be a "politician who was Catholic" instead of a "Catholic politician" Sure, there was tremendous enthusiasm for him among Catholic voters -- and he didn't win a majority of protestant voters, but he broke out of that narrow place that Catholic leaders had been in.

Now race isn't the same as religion (especially given our history), but when I look at Obama, I see him having that same ability to break out of that category that JFK had. My hope is that America is ready for that - I certainly believe we are.


by lifelongdem on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 03:33:43 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

Possibly my strongest early memory is the night that MLK was shot.  I was outside playing Batman I recall ...when my mother, who was a Dorothy Day social justice labor catholc called me in and sat me down and told me what had happened...and how things would be better someday.

Later that night we saw the smoke coming from a burning downtown ...

I was five at the time. I wouldnt see downtown for almost another decade.

Years later, in the 9th grade, I found a paperback copy of the Kerner Commission report on race and poverty that declared that America had become two societies -- one black and one white, separate and unequal.  It blew me away.

After I read that, I volunteered to work for the mayor of Wilmington, started taking the bus downtown everyday and I have worked in democratic politics ever since.


Offend the Media - Vote for Hillary!
by Seymour Glass on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:28:26 PM EST

Re: Hopefully in my lifetime (none / 0)

That's quite a heritage Demlady.  How totally American!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 05:16:17 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

You bring up one of the things that drives me especially crazy in this whole attempt to smear the Clintons as race-baiters.

In 2008, the idea that you can win the Democratic nomination by writing off the African American vote and appealing to the closet white racist vote is ludicrous. Of all the things that people have accused the Clintons of doing (murder, rape, racism, war crimes, etc.), nobody has ever accused them of stupidity. Even without their manifest dedication to civil rights issues throughout their long careers in public service, it would be pragmatically idiotic for them to try this. African Americans make up a huge fraction of the Democratic electorate (I'm not sure of the exact number, but it's likely at least 15-20%). Do you really think that there are enough closet racists out there to make up for that?


by OrangeFur on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 05:22:17 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

It may go away, and I hope it does, but I'll still be mighty steamed about it.


by OrangeFur on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 05:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

Too bad Michigan got "neutered" by the DNC for its "inappropriate" leapfrogging - - - a Hillary vs. Obama vs. Edwards race in Michigan would have been very revealing compared to the largely white monolithic states of Iowa and New Hampshire and the Afro-American-skewed monolithic Dem contest in South Carolina....Factor in also the influx of Arabs to the populations near Detroit and I think it would have been a really interesting contest.

    Thank you for posting...Romney's dad and the 1967 race riots and the role LBJ played were a little before my time...I was about four years old when MLK was gunned down in 1968 and do recall I was watching TV when the bulletin broke with word of the tragedy.

     As I was reading your post, I was listening to CSPAN with author Shelby Steele hawking his book about Obama as a "racial bargainer" so it sort of formed a side-by-side sympatico of brain food.

     As Super Tuesday approaches, I'll probably read up on Obama via his two books and maybe read some Steele to serve as a counterweight.  

     I actually met Obama in 2004 as he was campaigning for the Senate when he spoke at a union hall in Bloomington, Illinois in a town hall sort of format featuring six or seven Maytag workers who had seen their jobs outsourced to Mexico.  I had a book with me entitled "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" and he said he already had a copy (I took that to mean he had read it)...

   


by Progressive Populist on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 05:46:38 PM EST

I don't believe this for minute (none / 0)

You wrote
"Which is a clear majority of Blacks will vote for Obama. A clear majority of whites will NOT vote for Obama."
The truth is that 90-95% of all of Americans go to great lengths to dispel any belief that they are racists, so it hard to believe that any substantial number of Americans would vote against a candidate just because that candidate was of a race other than their own. Racists aren't going to vote for any Democrat, regards of the Democrat's race, because racists don't vote for Democrats. Also I am willing to bet that 90-95 percent of conservatives and registered Republicans will tell you, in a private conversation, that they are not racists and would not base their vote upon someone's racial heritage.

Obama's election would prove to the world that America was truly color blind in regards to race, heritage, or ethnic back ground, and I think the vast majority of Americans would rather America appear color blind than racist.

As a blue eyed, blond haired white man, few know that I am married to an Asian women and have biracial children. Like you I also hear a lot of under-toned comments and jokes about racial stereotypes, but I am well aware that such speech doesn't prove someone is a racists. I have only met a few people who were truly racists, and they were all ex-cons prohibited from voting.
The most conservative people I know have all said that they have very fond feelings for Obama, and have said they will vote for Obama because they want unity, inspirational leadership, and an end to the loss of blood and treasure in the Iraq War.
The bottom line is Obama can win the Conservative and moderate vote (especially the young and color blind conservative and moderate vote), but Hillary Clinton is definitely not going to get the conservative vote and will lose a lot of moderates.
But I still think Clinton can win the general election, but not by the margin that Obama would. And Obama would, I think, bring in 8 or 9 new Democratic Senators instead of the 4 or 5 that Clinton would bring in.


"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:04:09 PM EST

That's funny, Demlady4life (none / 0)

In that I, and everyone I know, saw the unfolding of events differently than you say you did.
On the Monday before the NH primary, Clinton's staff, just like everybody else, thought that Clinton was going to suffer the biggest upset in political history by losing to Obama in a state that she was hitherto favored heavily to win. So Clinton changed her strategy, decided to show emotion by getting choked up in her reply to the question "how do you do it", in which her response had the word "I" in two sentences, and then went negative by saying "some people just aren't ready" in the next voice. She and her campaign continued to go negative in their attacks on Obama by implying that she was like LBJ and that Obama was like MLK, and that LBJ (one of the nation's worse presidents who was responsible for the Viet Nam war) was in some way better than MLK (which caused me to ask, wouldn't MLK have been a better president than LBJ?). Bill Clinton furthered the racial back and forth by using the phrase "fairy tale" in regards to Obama'a anti-Iraq war stance.
And let me remind you, for the record, in no way shape or form has Obama played the gender card, or compared Clinton to Susan B Anthony in a questionable interpretation, or at all.
And if you consider the race card to have been played, then it was stated by the Clinton campaign.
BTW. Does your name mean that you will support Obama if he is the nominee? None of your comments have implied that you would.
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:37:21 PM EST

Re: That's funny, Demlady4life (none / 0)

Like I said in the diary, I was really hoping we could avoid getting into this stuff, because it's not intended as that kind of diary.  Surely there are 800 other places where we could discuss whether Hillary pretended to cry.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (none / 0)

One of the many things which make Obama unique is that he is African-American in an ethnic sense, not just a racial one.  That is in keeping with the melting pot experience which is shared experience of White America.  Make no mistake about it, his life experience is certainly as a Black man, but his story is also that of an immigrant.  People want to be able to relate to their President and Obama's story is one which every White family in America has somewhere in their lineage.


by Piuma on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:41:11 PM EST

Immigrant? (none / 0)

Barack Obama was never an immigrant and neither was his father. Obama's story is that of a biracial American who quickly rose to power through the hope and inspiration that he gave everyone around him at a time when America desperately needed hope and inspiration to get through the difficult times it faced.
But you're right, his story is the dream that immigrants and newly made citizens can have for their children.
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 08:10:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and the White Vote (2.00 / 1)

Interesting, via Ben Smith:


From CNN's entrance/exit polls:

In NV, whites split between Clinton, Edwards, and Obama 52%, 10%, and 34% (in that order).

In SC, whites split between Clinton, Edwards, and Obama 36%, 40%, and 24% (in that order).

In NV, blacks split between Clinton, Edwards, and Obama 14%, 1%, and 83% (in that order).

In SC, blacks split between Clinton, Edwards, and Obama 19%, 2%, and 78% (in that order).


by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 07:18:35 PM EST


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