NV caucus in my precinct

My precinct caucus was a pretty exciting affair and actually closely reflected the overall result of the state. We had a few glitches but after that, things settled down and ran very smoothly. It didn't turn out too well for Edwards but Clinton didn't win by as much as she could have.

And despite the presence of "observers" from Culinary, their members in fact a) did not turn up in large numbers (perhaps because many were at work and voted on the strip? don't know) and b) did not all caucus for Obama.

Here's how it went down.

As I wrote in my final posts during the week, I sensed my Edwards support slipping away and by Friday night, I knew I had real trouble. It wasn't that many supporters were defecting to other campaigns (only a few did) but that at least 11 of my solid supporters had health problems in their families that would keep them away. (At the time, I was projecting a viability number of about 12 and had about 18 strong supporters Id'd.) I picked up a few undecideds in my final round of calling Fri night/Saturday but at least 3 more on whom I was counting didn't show at the caucus.

Even before things started, they heated up. At 9:50am, before even the sites were to open up for temp prct chairs to begin setting up, I got a call from a pct captain that Clinton supporters were setting up signs and passing out lit in the parking lot -- which the party had made clear was against the rules. I went over and was surprised to find that the registration table for the precinct had been set up outside the school and had been plastered with Hillary stickers. I pointed out to the temp precinct chair, who happened to be my state Senator, that this was against the rules, and he pooh-poohed my concern, suggesting "we should take a liberal interpretation of the rules." I asked if he really wanted me to have to call in to complain about him doing this, and he agreed to remove the stickers. I didn't call and went to my own site.  (Apparently they responded to calls complaining about this by stating that "we can't control what goes on outside the caucus room.")

At my site, there was a different problem. Although the room was not supposed to open to voters until 11am, both the Clinton supporters and an Obama campaign staffer had already postered a wall each. I was rather upset and pointed out a) they were not supposed to even be in the room for an hour and b) were only supposed to place one poster per campaign on the wall (the state party had reiterated this rule in a memo to each campaign on Thursday). This time I did call the state party, put the call on speaker, and got the situation clarified. We would each post only one poster.

After that, things settled down and ran smoothly for the most part. Although I had originally signed up to be the temp pct chair and gone to the training, my wife (who also attended the training) suggested last night that she should chair the caucus, so no one would be upset about my evident support for Edwards. I agreed, esp since this freed me up to try to win over much-needed supporters. That turned out to be a smart choice, both because it helped settle the situation (she had stayed scrupulously non-committed throughout the campaign) and because she ran the process superbly, with much greater attention to detail than I could have given it.

It quickly became evident that a) we were going to have a much larger turnout than I had expected and that b) the Clinton campaign had done a terrific job of mobilizing its voters. (They very effectively got their precinct leaders to the sites very early by distributing their packets not during the week, as we had, but on Saturday at 7am.) All the calling not only got a good # of their people out but got them their early; Clinton supporters were arriving in large numbers by 10:30.

By 11:15, we had long lines out the door for sign-in and new registration. All told we had 103 previously registered voters sign in (of about 650 democrats in the precinct) plus a whopping 36 new registrants, for a total of 139 (though at the count-off, we came up with 143, a discrepancy that remained unexplained.)

What most surprised me was the heavy Latino turnout for Clinton and the very low turnout of Latino voters for Obama. I asked the Obama precinct captain if she was expecting a bus load of Culinary members (Culinary uses mini-buses to shuttle voters to the polls on election day) and she said no. That pretty well settled the outcome. AS it turned out, there were Culinary members in all three groups; the Edwards group also had at least one SEIU and one AFSCME member.

As at other sites, a dispute erupted at 11:30 over whether the doors needed to be shut at that point. Both the Obama and Clinton campaigns had instructed their captains that the doors needed to be shut at 11:30. The temp pct chair training had said thus, but also encouraged chairs to use their discretion to allow late arrivals to sign in if it would not prolong the start of the caucus at noon. Moreover, the state party had clarified to the campaigns (but not the pct chairs) that anyone arriving at noon should be allowed to participate. But the Clinton pct cptn was quite vociferous that the doors needed to be shut at noon. Our pct chair overruled her and allowed the only voter who arrived atfter 11:30 to sign in and participate.

By 11:45, thanks to volunteers from each campaign who helped with the sign in, we were ready to elect our chair and secretary. (After my wife was confirmed as chair, I nominated the Clinton precinct captain to be secretary to promote concord, which seemed to work well.) Since we could not count in until noon, the chair suggested short speeches. I made a plea for help to reach viability so that the issues Edwards raised would continue to be heard as the campaign went national, and so that Edwards focus on issues (which I symbolized by holding up the policy book) would set the tone for the rest of the primary, rather than "a quarter of a billion dollars of campaign donations and fights over who's suing whom ..." I liked my speech but it didn't win any spontaneous support.

As the end of the first allignment approached, Clinton had 80, Obama 46, Edwards 13, Kucinic 2 and uncommitted 2. Each of the 3 campaigns made a short pitch for the 2 Kucinic supporters who then said they would come to Edwards if it would make us viable. The uncommitted voters also agreed to come if it would make us viable, as did one Obama voter and one Clinton voter. I was now only three voters short, but I could not let the 15 minutes expire without at least getting 3 more uncommitted (because members of viable groups cannot reallign under NV rules). So I went to the Clinton group and explained that if they helped me reach viability, they could deprive Obama of at least 2 delegates without hurting their own cause. I urged them to move at least 3 people to uncommitted, which would at least make it mathematically possible for us to reach the 22 we needed for viability.

To my surprise, the Clinton captain had no idea what I was talking about and could not understand either why they should move supporters to uncommitted, or why I would suggest that most of the Edwards supporters would go to Obama if we failed to be viable. I explained quickly and had more or less convinced her when time ran out. I pointed out she had to do it now and that if my math was wrong, she could get her voters back in the 2nd 15 minutes. She agreed but only one Clinton supporter volunteered to move. As I pleaded for her and one of the two others assisting her to move themselves, the OBama captain quite rightly began to point out that time was up. (I had told the Obama captain I would come to their group if I were not viable, but to her credit, she was not put off that  was trying to help Edwards at her expense.)

So I redistributed the preference cards to the Edwards supporters, thanked them for their support, explained I would be supporting Obama and that they could choose Obama, Clinton or to leave the caucus. Of our 13, two went to Clinton (including my wife) and the rest plus the 2 Kucnic and one of the uncommitted went to Obama, resulting in a final tally of 83 - 60. That resulted in 8 delegates for Clinton, six for Obama. (By my calculation, had the Clinton captain agreed to my deal, the resulting final vote of 77-43-22 would have resulted in a delegate distribution of 8-4-2.)

At this point, all but about 18 people left the caucus in a stampede. The captains phoned in the results, and of those remaining, few volunteered to be delegates to the county convention. As a result, I was elected as an Obama delegate and my wife as a Clinton delegate.

As I called my other pct captains in my district, it became clear that Edwards had hit viability in the other precincts but not picked up additional delegates, suggesting it would be a long day. By the time I arrived at the Edwards gathering, it became clear how devastating a defeat it would be.



Display:


Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 5)

My hat is off to you, desmoulins, for your hard work, your thoughtfulness, and your willingness to share your experience and give the rest of us insight. Thank you, thank you, and thank you.

I wish there was more tangible reward in it for you beyond the satisfaction of participating in the Democratic process unselfishly, and helping to make it viable and workable.

You are the heart and the soul that makes the affair human.


by robert ethan on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:47:26 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

I'm really sorry to hear that you didn't achieve viability, but glad to hear that you will be representing Obama as a delegate.  Thank you for all your hard work, your diaries and insights have been invaluable.


by Ryan Anderson on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:10:50 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

yes, a big thank you for these invaluable reports and also all the effort you put into the campaign.

after reading about so many problems and possible cases of voter intimidation over the last few hours, it's great to know that there are people like you out there who won't stoop to dirty politics just so their candidate comes out ahead.  

what a great sign of respect for the democratic process that you went in the edwards chair and came out an obama delegate!  my hat's off to you...


by bluedavid on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:10:59 AM EST

Too bad for edwards. (2.00 / 1)

I mean caucuses really destroy him because of the silly viability factor...

Other people have been getting reports of campaigns trying to close the doors at 11:30 too...


by MrMacMan on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:40:04 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

What a relief to actually a read a diary on this site that is actually informative.


by Pravin on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:26:18 AM EST

thanks again for your hard work (2.00 / 2)

How frustrating that your Edwards supporters had family emergencies, and the Clinton precinct captain did not understand the system. I am sure that would have turned out differently in Iowa.

Good plan for your wife to chair the precinct as well.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:58:45 AM EST

Re: thanks again for your hard work (none / 0)

and the Clinton precinct captain did not understand the system

I thought the system in Nevada was that supporters of viable candidates were not allowed to move in the second round (only supporters of non-viable candidates).  This is the second precinct where I have heard of supporters of viable candidates moving in the second round.  What gives?


by markjay on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:06:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks again for your hard work (2.00 / 2)

you get a preliminary count and 15 minutes in which to move, so it's pretty similar to the iowa system, and techncally the first ballot doesn't happen after the first 15 minutes.

my precinct was much smaller, we had 9 edwards people; we needed 13. i gave a quick speech and got lucky; 3 undecideds came over to us, and 3 clinton people.

ended up that clinton people lost a delegate because of it. finally tally was 39-29-15, and we got one delegate (2:2:1).

If you know Vegas at all, I live in the new southewst.


My blog: jedreport.com
by jedreport on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:38:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks again for your hard work (2.00 / 1)

thats why I needed the Clinton people to move to uncommitted at the end of the first 15, so they would not be locked in for the 2nd period. It was a way of buying time so I could more fully explain the math to the Clinton pct cpt.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:10:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

Thanks for your diligence in reporting on the process, all throughout.  Good luck to you as a state delegate.


by markjay on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:07:32 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

This was an appreciated series of posts.  

I know Edwards and his supporters have vowed to go on, no matter what, but isn't it quite possible that Edwards bows out of the race if he comes in at under 10% in South Carolina, his birth state?  

Was it a shocker that your wife would caucus for Hillary as her second choice, given the misgivings you personally had with her, or were you aware that she preferred Hillary over Obama?  

It appears that Hispanics came out in record numbers, relative to their usual participation in primaries/caucuses, which your report seems  to confirm.  As the largest growing and numerically largest minority group in this country it is good to see that they are now being more heavily courted and that they decided to participate more than they had in the past.  That increased participation and their obvious wholesale shift as a group to Democrats in large numbers (if polls amongst that demographic are to be believed) will reap major benefits for us in November, if it holds.


by georgep on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:37:07 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 1)

No, we talked a lot about it and given our conversations, it was probably more surprising to her that I went to Obama in the end.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 2)

Wow, how exciting. Thank you for the diary. I've learned so much from you.


by lonnette33 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:52:16 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

Excellent Diary.  Did you get a sense from the Hispanic voters as to why the majority of them went for Hillary?  


What would LBJ do?
by Socks The Cat on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:20:09 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 2)

name recognition, mostly. Also the endorsement of the largest spanish-language paper in town. They never really heard Edwards' message. Why not Obama? Can't say really.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 2)

I dislike the caucus system.  But you deserve congratulations for the effort you put forth on behalf of your candidate.  Democracy depends on people like you.


by Mike Pridmore on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 09:29:04 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 2)

believe me, after this week, nobody here likes the caucus system. I'm sure there will be a push within the party to change to a primary for 2012.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:15:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

question for you (2.00 / 1)

Do you think the outcome will diminish the political clout of the unions that backed Obama? Culinary couldn't even deliver most of the at-large precincts for him.

Or will the spin be that they helped make Nevada competitive for him after Hillary had blowout leads in most polls for the past year?


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:04:48 AM EST

Re: question for you (2.00 / 1)

Good questions and on everyone's minds yesterday. I think it'll take a while for the answer to become clear. I wouldn't expect that much long-term fallout, really.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:16:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Culinary's impact was always exagerrated (none / 0)

Simply because 60,000 members however loyal to leadership doesn't equate to 60,000 potential caucus goers. A lot of those members are working under green cards. For that matter unions have no real responsibility for being a branch office of La Migra, not every members papers would stand up to scrutiny.

On balance the Culinary Union would by nature have lower citizenship rates than say the Carpenters or Electricians. Anyone who has been on a construction job site understands the likely percentages, if you are flat out looking for votes you are a lot more likely to get them from the IBEW and AFSCME than the Laborers, the percentage of citizens in the former being quite a bit higher than that of the latter.

This isn't to immigrant bash Culinary, their job is to represent workers and not be enforcers for ICE, but the demographics do fall out in ways that discounted that 60,000 membership base.


PollKatz: Bush Approval in 15 polls
by Bruce Webb on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 01:19:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

That resulted in 8 delegates for Clinton, six for Obama. (By my calculation, had the Clinton captain agreed to my deal, the resulting final vote of 77-43-22 would have resulted in a delegate distribution of 8-4-2.)

That's pretty much what happened in the precinct (desmoinesdem's), but flipping the outcome. If the Obama crew had just sent over 7 of their 120 or so supporters to Edwards, it would have deprived Clinton of a delegate, making it 3-2-1 (Edwards, Obama, Clinton) instead of 2-2-2.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:21:14 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 1)

One of the reasons that Edwards' defeat was so crushing is that NV allocated many more county convention delegates than Iowa. So that in precincts like mine, where we were not viable, we gave up many more delegates than in a comparably sized precinct in Iowa. That resulted in a much wider final spread.

I think the part should not have had every precinct (1700 statewide) conduct a caucus; they should have combined precincts. It would have made the logistical task much easier for them.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 1)

Thanks so much for all your writeups on this election.  That must have been tremendously frustrating for you as an Edwards supporter and I thank you for fighting the good fight on our behalf.

It really seems to make a huge difference when you have so many brand-new precinct captains and chairs; the phone sure must have been ringing off the hook at state party headquarters trying to resolve all these postering-type disputes.  I wonder if the meme that the 11:30 thing was a massive attempt at election fraud by the Clinton camp has been successfully debunked, or if the Kos folks are going to believe that until the end of time.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:39:54 AM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (2.00 / 2)

frustrating sure but the turnout and new registration of Dems statewide (which could turn out to be above 25k) makes it hard to be too down. The people I felt bad for were all those Steelworkers from all across the country who came here and who made such a tremendous effort up against two campaigns that had almost unlimited resources.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:50:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

It's clear that Edwards would be doing much better in a normal year.  On the other hand, elections that present strong opportunities for Democrats tend to attract strong candidates, so that's just the way it goes.

It's also my impression that the population of Nevada, in general, is somewhat more transitory than that of Iowa, which sort of takes away from some of the community- and party-building aspects of the caucus system, but that might just be my own stereotype.

I'm also starting to think that with all I hear about busloads of voters going this way and that, the key endorsement for the next election might be the bus drivers' union.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 12:01:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

the population of Nevada, in general, is somewhat more transitory than that of Iowa

Thats indeed an understatement. But all the more reason why the impact on party building will be so much greater. A year ago, we were so low on the curve, so to speak, that the impact going forward for the party will be exponentially greater than in Iowa, I think.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

That's great to hear as the West is certainly the future of the Democratic Party.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:04:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

Interesting that you mention gaining one person for Clinton and one person for Obama to reach viability.  Interesting because the Nevada Dems' caucus handbook states that caucusgoers pledged to a candidate who achieves viability are not permitted to move after the first count.  Apparently the chair, Hillary captain and Obama captain didn't know this, or ignored it.  

Just another sign indicating the failure of these caucuses as a democratic exercise.  I hope this caucus will be Nevada's last.


by ogondai on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:41:17 PM EST

Re: NV caucus in my precinct (none / 0)

You didn't read carefully enough. I explained that this was all during the first reallignment. Thanks for reading.


by desmoulins on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:44:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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