Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum, Towards Delegate Counts

Coming off the Iowa caucuses, the New Hampshire primary, and the Nevada caucus results, I think we're seeing the limits of momentum in these early contests:

Clinton's average polling in Nevada over the last year has been 45%. Obama's has been 21%. Which means in this vote, Obama's momentum took the spread of 24 points down to 5. Similarly, in New Hampshire Clinton's year-long average was 33% to Obama's 26%. In that race, Obama cut the spread from 7 to 2.5.

Obama's momentum off of his Iowa win can clearly tighten races and close the spread, but it seems this momentum can only carry him so far.


The New York Times seems to agree:
No longer do Democrats see much chance of either candidate stringing together a few quick victories and consolidating the support of the party. The possibility of building steam that carries from one contest to the next seems much in question.

It's becoming clear that the primary fight is turning into a two-way battle for delegates. The opening salvo of contradictory victory press releases from the Obama and Clinton camps is only the beginning.

What does it mean if the narrative shifts away from winners and losers and towards delegate counts?

For one, it makes momentum a lot less important. With both campaigns digging in for the long haul and the media switching its focus to delegate counts, wins in South Carolina and Florida will mean less. Super Tuesday may easily even out the counts, keeping the primary alive well into the spring.

On one hand, this means more people get to participate in the process. When early primary momentum carries a candidate to a quick victory, Democrats around the nation rightly complain that a tiny minority of the American population chooses a candidate for the rest. (See John Kerry, 2004) If the primary is about delegates and not about momentum, and if the season lasts for another month of two, a majority of America will get to weigh in.

This is an unambiguously good outcome for the Democratic party as a brand. The longer primary process means we Democrats get to have a longer, more thorough national conversation about our core ideology. By the end of it, I think we'll have a more unified message that can appeal to the country as a whole in a more compelling way. Just as primary challengers can shake conservative Democrats from their slumber and drive the conversation to the left (see Dan Lipinski), a long primary fight for the White House is shifting conversation to the left as well. When our candidates battle over who will remove troops from Iraq faster or whose health care plan covers more people, the Democratic party as a whole wins.

Plus, a longer primary is simply more democratic.

On the other hand, it may be spring or summer before we have a nominee. I'm not sure whether this is good or bad strategically for Democrats. A longer primary season takes more money out of campaign coffers, possibly leaving less ammunition to go after Republicans with. The counter-argument, proffered here by Chris Bowers a little over a year ago, says that a drawn out primary season keeps Democrats rolling in free media, whereas an early conclusion leaves Republicans alone in the spotlight for months until the general election campaign starts.

I, for one, am glad for the long primary season. Beyond the reasons mentioned above, I've got my New York absentee ballot sitting on my desk, and the Times says New York might be "in play," meaning my vote might actually count! I feel relieved that Iowa and New Hampshire didn't decide for me this time around.

I say, let the primaries roll!



Display:


Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum, Toward (none / 0)

The contest, in my opinion, is nearing an end. The demographics going forward clearly favor Clinton.

Older voters and women will carry Clinton to victory  in the closed primaries and Latino voters will help Clinton win CA and other western states.

After 2/5 Clinton will no doubt have significantly more delegates then Obama and quite possibly more than Obama and Edwards combined.  If the spread exceeds 300 (including super delegates) the contest is effectively over.

It is possible that Clinton might have less that a 200 delegate spread (which is what the Obama campaign is hoping) which may make this a continued contest but, realistically, barring some sort of huge gaffe by Clinton or allegation about Clinton it's all over but for the shouting.


by kristoph on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:29:30 PM EST

John Edwards - Sunday Teevee (none / 0)

January 20, 2008

EXCERPT

WINNSBORO, S.C. -- Edwards portrayed himself as the best candidate to run against Republican John McCain a day after he won the Republican primary here.

"Well, he is starting to look like the Republican nominee," Edwards said in response to a reporter's question about McCain, "and I think it's important for us to have somebody to run against McCain who can beat him. And national polls show that I'm the one who beats John McCain in the general election.

And second, I think even more important than that, this is a guy who's made central to his political life campaign finance reform.

It seems to me we ought to be putting somebody up against him who's never taken money from special interest PACs or Washington lobbyists. Between the three of us, that's me."



by dearreader on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're getting ahead of yourself (none / 0)

Not counting Michigan, only three states, with 117 delegates total, have voted.  Those 117 delegates represent about 3% of the 3992 delegates who will be seated at the Democratic Convention.

At this point in the process, momentum and the ability to gain a larger share of the delegates yet to be selected is far far more important than the numbers of delegates who have actually been selected to date.  Eventually the tables will turn on that calculation, but we aren't even close to the turning point yet.


by Trickster on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum (none / 0)

If this were true, I would hope that there would be a serious discussion at the undemocratic manner in which delegates are apportioned.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:42:21 PM EST

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum (none / 0)

How about the undemocratic manner of the primaries in general? All this leapfrogging and fighting to be first in the nation...


The Seminal :: Independent Media & Politics
by J Ro on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:49:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum (none / 0)

Well, yes that too.  But if we're going to make the race all about delegates, then a little exposure as to the sausagemaking would be appropriate.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum (none / 0)

Can't argue with that.


The Seminal :: Independent Media & Politics
by J Ro on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 09:28:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

New York & Delegates (none / 0)

I hope you noted that that New York Times piece about how the state might "be in play" cited absolutely no polling data or any other empirical information.  It simply recounted Obama's efforts to put New York in play.

I honestly doubt it is in play or Obama's efforts will be all that serious.  I think it's a play to try to make Clinton defend her turf, just as Clinton has an Illinois office.  

I'd be shocked if either didn't carry their home state.

As for delegates I think it will be a disaster for the Democratic party to go into its convention with one candidate having won the popular vote but looking to nominate another because of delegate count.  Talk about destroying a party and harming GOTV efforts in November.  As I've said elsewhere, I can't believe all these new voters are going to be excited if it turns out the votes didn't matter.

I'm also not sure why Obama is touting Nevada as a win instead of simply using the delegate count as a silver lining (the way Clinton did with Iowa).  Even if it is all about delegates, I'm not sure "I won Nevada because obscure caucus rules lets me overcome the will of the voters"  That the caucus rules that allow him to do it seem to favor rural, white voters also doesn't help.

I fully hope that none of this one delegate thing here or one there will matter and that we will go into the convention with a nominee who won the popular vote in most states and won the delegates needed for nomination.  


by BDB on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:52:28 PM EST

Re: New York & Delegates (2.00 / 1)

Yes, the 'NY is in play' talk is just an Obama talking point being fed to supportive (and in this case gullible) reporters.

Clinton will win NY by double digits. The best Obama can hope is that the spread is less than 20 points.

In Illinois it is the opposite.  

California is the real battleground. To win the delegate battle Obama needs a 10 point win but I don't think that it at all realistic.


by kristoph on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:13:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New York & Delegates (none / 0)

I agree that the polling doesn't back it up, but I do like the idea of the candidates fighting in each other's home turf. Like I said, contested battles are good.


The Seminal :: Independent Media & Politics
by J Ro on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:50:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New York & Delegates (none / 0)

Survey USA from 1/9-10/08 has a 27 point edge for Clinton.

Today she got the Rev. Dr. Butts endorsement which will shore up her AA vote there.


by del on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:25:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The link that mydd should be posting (none / 0)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 108/Obama_at_Ebenezer_Two_calls_for_unit y.html
As much as I hate the politico I felt the readers of  mydd should have access to Obama's very moving speech (which was one of the few speeches that brought tears to my eyes just reading it).
Dailykos also has the entire speech posted.
In follow up, I think it would be better to elect Obama President sooner rather than later.
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:20:46 PM EST

Re: The link that mydd should be posting (none / 0)

It's a fine speech, why don't you post a diary instead of hijacking the thread.


by souvarine on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

momentum (none / 0)

Momentum is a lazy way of analyzing campaigns. The serial primary process only makes it look like campaigns build momentum. Too many people took the wrong lesson from Dean's defeat in the 2004 primary.


by souvarine on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:23:57 PM EST

Bad link, sorry. (none / 0)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 108/Obama_at_Ebenezer_Two_calls_for_unit y.html
Try this one instead.
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:26:41 PM EST

On Nevada (none / 0)

You narrative on momentum re Nevada has it backwards. Obama's Iowa momentum pushed him close and then Hillary's NH mo helped regain her footing. There is Mo and there will be in future. It almost carried Obama to the nomination. I think this post is wrongheaded in its approach.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:42:49 PM EST

Re: On Nevada (none / 0)

I guess maybe another way to explain it is competing momentums. As you say, Obama's momentum and Hillary's momentum almost cancel each other out. I see that happening again going forward. It all boils down to momentum not mattering all that much. As souvarine said above, momentum can be seen as a "lazy" way of analyzing campaigns.


The Seminal :: Independent Media & Politics
by J Ro on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum, Toward (none / 0)

Florida is going to provide momentum, it's the last contest heading into the Feb 5th states.

Also, the dynamics begin to favor Clinton after the first 4. Obama has over performed precisely because they've focused their strategy in the first four states with Indy's in the picture, and extensive ground games in action. Beyond the first four, they've much less of that advantage-- sure, things are in place, but not to the extent that it gives them an advantage, as the first four does.

And, if Obama loses SC, it's gonna surely be about a week from being over except for the counting.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:06:40 PM EST

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum, Toward (none / 0)

I guess that question is do you think Obama and Clinton will split the Super Tuesday states, or even partially divide them, say 2/3 to 1/3. I think that would keep both Obama and Clinton in play for a while.


The Seminal :: Independent Media & Politics
by J Ro on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum, Toward (none / 0)

The question for 2/5 is not who wins the states but how many delegates they get.

If, say, Obama won every state by 1% except for NY, NJ where Clinton won by 20% and CA where Clinton won by 10% it would still be a huge Clinton victory.


by kristoph on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum, Toward (none / 0)

This is true. I guess I see even the delegate count being more mixed come Super Tuesday. Even if Obama comes out behind, if he's not that far behind, he's still in it for a while, prolonging the season.


The Seminal :: Independent Media & Politics
by J Ro on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 09:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shifting Narratives Away From Momentum, Toward (none / 0)

All the candidates are on the FL ballot. When no one campaigns in a state and yet someone still wins by double digits that's going to be big news.


by kristoph on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Contested Primaries (none / 0)

Are great for "battleground" states like Florida and Ohio and uncontested states like the Great Plains states because it increases the cachet of the Democratic Party brand name.  For example, if there's a contested Democratic presidential primary in a place like Kansas, which the Democrats have not carried since 1964, we as a party increase the cachet of the issues the candidates are discussing.  In a contest like this one where the differences between Obama and Hillary are predominantly stylistic, and the preponderance of public support currently lies with issues touted by the Democratic Party, I believe that following a general election on the heels of a wildly contested primary where there is lots of money and lots of attention to our primary, we actually have a greater chance of carrying that same state in the general election!


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:37:53 PM EST

This will not be over on 2/5 (none / 0)

Obama will carry Illinois as well as NC, GA, VA, TN, LA, AL, MS, MD, IL, and possibly even MO.  This will go on a while longer.


by Toddwell on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:58:36 PM EST

Re: This will not be over on 2/5 (none / 0)

Obama will carry IL.  Every other state is doubtful.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This will not be over on 2/5 (none / 0)

We shall see.  If THIS is right, it doesn't matter if he wins a specific state as long as he keeps it close, since none of our states are winner take all.    That's why you'll see him so some appearances in NJ and NY and probably see her make a Chicago stop as well.  The closer they can get the better it becomes.

I'm excited about this race going long, which is pretty feasible... as LONG as it is settled before the convention.... a brokered convention would be disasterous... I think if one candidate is within a 100 or 200 delegates, then a deal gets cut pretty fast to push them over before the convention starts.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:21:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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