Changing the Game

A weekly candidate supporter diary for MyDD

The resistance to Barack Obama's candidacy in the progressive blogosphere is significant and representative.  The objections to his style and strategy are fundamental and founded on the long-standing perception, for which there is indeed ample evidence, of the political process in the United States as a partisan struggle in which the ends justify the means, no quarter is expected or given and the ideological divisions of the two competing factions are irreconcilable.  How did we get here?:


The Reagan win ushered in both 12 straight years of Republican control of the White House and a conservative era overall. In 1992, Democrat Bill Clinton took back control of the White House for his party, but that didn't stop the broader rise of both conservative sentiment and Republican strength. Two years after Mr. Clinton took office, in 1994, Republicans had one of the most-sweeping midterm elections in the last century, taking an additional 54 seats in the House and 10 in the Senate and winning control of both chambers. Mr. Clinton himself never won a majority of the national vote, and was elected in part by distancing himself from his Democratic party's traditional liberal base.

Gerald F Seib - WSJ An Epochal Battle 2 Jan 08

While that is the view from the 'other side of the hill' it is neither inaccurate nor exaggerated.  The conflict between the 'red' and 'blue' partisans has enlisted the ideological extremes of both factions as the 'base' from which electoral contests are waged, rallying whatever levies can be raised in the electorate to causes which emphasise the divisions between the respective camps.  As a consequence of the narrowly fought presidential conflicts, such as 2000, when the electoral process itself became a disputed issue, the rancour and sense of injustice further hardened the left and success at any cost emboldened their enemies.

But while ideologically divided, when it comes to the national economy and the prosperity of individual citizens, the distinctions seem to have become uncomfortably blurred to the detriment of the standing of both parties with their constituencies:


Since the Reagan era, the heroes of the nation's economic story have been valiant entrepreneurs who "took risks" and "created wealth." This narrative advanced the Republican cause and seeped deeply into the Democratic Party. If Iowa is any indication, there is a new narrative in which the old heroes are cast as the goats of the story and the new heroes are people like "the guy in Orange City." There is a thunder out of Iowa, and it is shaking both parties.

E J Dionne - The New Republic The Populist Surge 31 Dec 07

It is indicative that Huckabee and Obama, unrepresentative of their 'bases' respectively on economic, on the one hand, and partisanship and process issues on the other, are the apparent insurgents in this primary election cycle.  Is the partisan conflict just ideological 'bread and circuses' while power and influence is continuously aggrandised in the hands of an elite which is largely indifferent to the outcome, so long as their position remains unchallenged?  The electorate is apparently beginning to wonder.

While the war in Iraq and the misleading leadership surrounding it have changed the balance of partisan power, as reflected in the 2006 Democratic victories in Congress, the ideological divisions between the protagonists remain as polarised as ever, perhaps even more so, as the weight of their respective strength reaches parity.  If war, as Clausewitz famously observed, 'is merely a continuation of politics' then the lessons of war equally apply.  And the outcome of the current didactic impasse reflects the same situation that arises when two opposing armies, entrenched inflexibly and committed to their positions, clash continuously over the same contested ground, measuring their offensives in yards won.  It has become a costly war of attrition, with narrow victories and limited objectives.  A type of war which, historically, has ultimately threatened the collapse of the economies of the participants and insurrection among their populations.

What is the outcome?  The partisan contestants become more tenacious and unyielding, raising the ante of the conflict and seeking to bring more terrifying weapons to bear on their opponents.  The left and right blogospheres, for example, have arisen as the shock troops of this conflict and their demonisation of their opponents the leading edge of public acrimony.  But what of the electorate?  The voters empowered by the Constitution with the selection of executive and legislative leadership in this country?  They are increasingly disenfranchised by this struggle and have been leaving the field as the conflict becomes more protracted and merciless.

The visual impact of the graph is indicative of the disenfranchisement of a significant number of registered voters who have opted out of the partisan trench warfare, either through fatigue, ideological differences with party platforms or a sense that the political process is not being furthered by the estrangement of both adversaries.  This probably explains to a large degree the spoiler independent candidacies of Ross Perot, Ralph Nader and potentially Michael Bloomberg.  The first two, arguably, having had a significant impact on electoral outcomes in spite of limited direct support.

The core values of Republicans, the party of entrepreneurs, property owners and libertarians, is free markets and small government.  Democrats, everyone else, are for fair distribution of wealth and government funded community resources and services.  And both of them are for the rule of law and the Constitution, give or take an amendment or two.  Looking at the full context of American history and the challenges that have faced us over the last century, this is probably a good balance.  Unfortunately, since the Viet-Nam war and the Nixon administration, the dynamic between these two poles of equally valid American ideology has become increasingly destructive and toxic, to the benefit of very few.

So where does Obama's candidacy fit in?  Unequivocally challenging this partisan divide from the very beginning, as it turns out:


"Our leaders in Washington seem incapable of working together in a practical, common sense way. Politics has become so bitter and partisan, so gummed up by money and influence, that we can't tackle the big problems that demand solutions," Obama said in a video message announcing his bid.

"We have to change our politics, and come together around our common interests and concerns as Americans," he said.

Reuters Obama to Enter 2008 White House Race 17 Jan 07

While perhaps inspiring or daring in principle, where does this lead Obama in practice?  Well, staying out of pointless food fights, for one thing.  His explanation of a position for which he was much criticised for lack of partisanship in the left blogosphere, the Cornyn amendment vote which he intentionally missed, came with a critique of the futility and distraction of partisanship for it's own sake.  It is a compelling counter-argument to his partisan detractors:


The focus of the United States Senate should be on ending this war, not on criticizing newspaper advertisements. This amendment was a stunt designed only to score cheap political points while what we should be doing is focusing on the deadly serious challenge we face in Iraq. It's precisely this kind of political game-playing that makes most Americans cynical about Washington's ability to solve America's problems. By not casting a vote, I registered my protest against this empty politics. I registered my views on the ad itself the day it appeared.

All of us respect the service of Gen. Petraeus and all of our brave men and women in uniform. The way to honor that service is to give them a mission that is responsible, not to vote on amendments like the Cornyn amendment while we continue to pursue the wrong policy in Iraq.

Ben Smith - Politico Obama Opts Out 20 Sep 07

There is no scarcity of examples where Obama has made similar statements.  Not to mention adopt policy positions which by accident or design were antithecal to progressive Democratic ideology.  The Social Security issue, health insurance mandates, refusing to defund US troops in combat and, above all, giving comfort to and treating with the hated Republican enemy have all exposed him to unrepentant criticism from the left, sometimes in strenuous and intentionally damaging terms.  Obama is basing his electoral success on the optimal aggregation of constituencies united in his support and he is unlikely to remap his strategy for the sake of a marginal one, no matter how outspoken and ostensibly influential.  

The recent Drudge advertisement imbroglio led Marc Ambinder to wonder publicly:


But here's the question: does Obama care even a sliver that some bloggers and netroots' activists are angry at him? I don't think he does. I don't think his campaign does. I don't even think, -- and I have nothing to base this on -- Obama's own netroots' team does.

Marc Ambinder An Obama Ad Appears On Drudge 2 Jan 08

One wonders if he isn't betraying a frustration felt widely in the blogosphere about Obama in general.  He isn't playing by the partisan rules of the netroots in any case, no matter how well he has leveraged on-line organising and fund-raising.  It could be argued readily that Obama is a potent progressive, and that his strategy for his own candidacy is his prerogative, as long as the end result advances progressive ideology significantly.  But he is critiqued for his strategy as well as his positions, leavened with polite applause for his strong stands on netroots' favourites like Net Neutrality and transparency in government.

Whether he is the darling of the netroots or not, however, some leaders within the Democratic party have come out strongly for him and his endorsements seem to convey a theme of post-partisan success anticipated by people who should know, such as former Governor of South Carolina Jim Hodges:


He also singled Obama out as the candidate mostly likely to win in November 2008 by making states in the South competitive for Democrats again. He'll win support from Independents and Republicans, who are hungry for a new kind of politics, in numbers that will help downticket Democratic candidates, Hodges said.

Hodges served from 1999-2003. He was the first candidate to beat an incumbent since 1876, and the only Democrat elected governor in South Carolina in the last 25 years.

The Page Statement from Former SC Governor Jim Hodges 2 Jan 08

And Senator Conrad of North Dakota:


"I have never endorsed in a presidential primary before, but I really believe events require us to stand up and be counted," Mr. Conrad said today. "He unites rather than divides. He has the unusual ability to inspire and to lift people to be better. That is a rare skill and something that's needed."

Mr. Conrad, one of nearly two dozen senators who voted against the Congressional war authorization, also said voters should take notice of the judgment Mr. Obama demonstrated in speaking against the war in 2002.

"Senator Obama has the greatest potential to get us back on track," Mr. Conrad said, speaking to reporters on a conference call. He is scheduled to join Mr. Obama in Iowa on Sunday.

Jeff Zaleny - NYT Obama Picks Up Endorsement 29 Dec 07

Not to mention Governor Tim Kaine of Virginia, an early endorser, in direct response to criticism of Obama on his apparently not-so progressive positions:


I asked Kaine if some Democratic primary voters would be turned off by a campaign that is putting so much emphasis on appealing to Independents and Republicans. After all, Hillary Clinton is attacking Obama daily for his supposed centrist compromises on health care, Social Security, and choice. Here's how Kaine responded:

I think it's odd to attack somebody for a message that is essentially about unifying our nation, and that's what Barack's message is about. He's a person of strong views, but he doesn't demonize the opposition. We want everybody to sit down and share views and find common ground. I'm 50 -- the nation has not been this polarized in my memory. The last 7 and 8 years have been very, very polarizing in a tough and bitter way, and I think Americans want to move past that. They see that as a Washington phenomenon. I think it's gutsy of Barack in a primary campaign to focus on this issue of outreach to Independents and moderate Republicans. But I also think it's what the country needs, and I think he's banking on the fact that most Americans understand that as well.

Dana Goldstein - Tapped Obama Appeals to Republicans 20 Dec 07

So who's missing the point here?  Is the left blogosphere, while grudgingly acknowledging Obama for his unexpected political success in the campaign so far, correctly standing for partisanship as the prerequisite of victory in it's unyielding criticism?  Or has that ship sailed?  There was a significant kerfuffle over the much touted and widely regarded Des Moines Register poll when it was finally released, because the turnout, sample and prediction of independent participation was heavily skewed towards exactly the dynamic which makes winning elections possible through Obama's stated strategy of seeking independent and Republican voters:


J. Ann Selzer, whose firm Selzer and Co. contracts with the Register to conduct the poll, said that the percentage of independents surprised her.

But she said that she trusted the method she used in conducting the survey.

Selzer uses a random-dial method of reaching registered voters, then asks them if they plan to participate in the caucuses before asking them for their party affiliation.

"We went looking deep into these numbers to find ways that there was something else odd," Selzer said Tuesday. "I didn't have any other demographic abnormalities. Everything is exactly on track with what we've gotten before, with the exception that it's a higher independent."

Thomas Beaumont - DMR Democratic camps doubt some poll figures 2 Dec 08

What clearer vindication of Obama's brand of politics could one ask to see at this juncture in the campaign?  He is not just about hope folks, he is about winning and his track record so far is extremely promising.  We will soon see.



Display:


Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Who exactly is representative of the progressive blogosphere? Would that possibly be the DLC faction of the Democratic party or would it be the left wing faction, such as represented by the overall membership of a blog like Daily Kos?

Blog polls are notoriously unrepresentative of a political party, but they do reflect the sentiments of the blog membership. In this regard, I have never seen Hillary attain favorability ratings on Daily Kos polls that ever exceeded 10%, in contrast to Obama and Edwards. So who is then is representative of the progressive blogoshere?


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 08:36:01 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Your post really seems to be making the case for Edwards when you are talking about the membership of the bases and Huckabee and Obama being insurgents who run counter to their base.

It seems that people think that Obama can sprinkle fairy dust and everyone will fall in line. I call this naive. Don't legitimize an agenda that the American public has rejected. IIRC, in 1980 Reagan didn't promise to cross the partisan divide. The man was as partisan as they come. He was all about convincing the public that his ideas were better and why they should reject the democrats ideas. That is something that Obama is apparently not willing to do.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 08:38:17 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Edwards' populism is a reaction to the same circumstances, the deadlocked process which undermines common prosperity, but his strategy is strictly partisan.  This accounts for much of his loyal, and disproportionate, netroots support.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (2.00 / 1)

I admire you and congratulate you for addressing this subject directly. I think you handled it well.

I am terribly disappointed with the blogger boys and girls, who frankly look like sore losers.  I wish they would have just come out for Edwards early on and been straight about this whole thing from the beginning. Their integrity is diminished as a result.

I think this is as much about power as it is about ideology or policy. Because I don't think Obama will ever pander to this group and they know it.


by aiko on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 08:49:39 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Yeah....right, he's already up to his nose in folks to pander too. Let's see:

Liebercrats....

The MIC.....

Corporate America....

The Republican Party...hard to believe but there it is; many, many here talk about 'bringin Republicans along...' so...

The man is so naturally progressive that he runs ads on Drudge attacking other Dems.

So...no, he don't need no stinkin' netroots. But I predict that should he reach the WH folks like you are in for a real big, nasty surprise....

And...

We arrogant, rude netroots folk?

We'll still be here.


by Pericles on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:29:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

I admit that I feel like I don't belong here anymore--being an Obama supporter.  For some reason the likely winner--got a pass.  And a very good challenger/alternative got creamed. Who would have thought?


by aiko on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:23:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Hang in and have fun like me! Don't sweat these weirdos.

They are SO bitter its just so sad! I mean you read something like the bile Pericles puts up and you wonder whether these people are as unhappy with life as they seem on this blog.


Slash and burn politics baby! Say anything do anything lie cheat steal railroad the opposition into submission: CLINTON FORMULA FOR 2008.
by crackityjones on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:34:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

No worries. I am having a blast. I love my guy and I no longer take this shit personally (took me years on the blogs to get here).  


by aiko on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 08:01:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Very nice job, Shaun.  Well done.


by Piuma on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 08:49:47 PM EST

Excellent post (none / 0)

I disagree with the way you framed a central question. I diaried in response - a cross post from Talk Left.
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:18:05 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Excellent post, Shaun.

The most thoughtful and prescient piece I have read on this or any blog in a LONG while.


by ArkansasLib on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:31:18 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

The problem I have with the recent fervor for Obama-bashing is that so much of it seems to be these trite attacks making him out to be some kind of Joe Lieberman-esque centrist, when the real question comes down to tone and framing.

A lot of the recent blogger criticism has pointed out Obama's supposed apostasy on various sacred cow issues for partisan liberals (disagreeing with Krugman, discussing SS, etc). I'll be the first to admit that I'm not as much of a died-in-the-wool liberal as probably many on this site and others, so a lot of these supposed transgressions aren't exactly enough to send me hurtling over a cliff. Even so, these critiques ring hollow because (a) Obama is actually a reliable, staunch liberal in both his policy positions and his record and (b) Obama's main opponents have made far worse transgressions, especially Hillary with her relatively hawkish foreign policy and Edwards with his remarkably centrist voting record, pre-2008 campaign.

As an example, Krugman, in an interview with TPM, was asked about Obama's less hawkish stance on foreign policy than HRC, and actually said that he didn't think foreign policy mattered, because any Democrat would get us out of Iraq. I know it's considered beyond the pale to criticize anything Krugman says, but this seemed to me like a less than honest answer.

I think there is some disingeniousness, or at least confusion, going on here, and I think it stems from the difference in tone and framing rather than on the issues. Tone and framing are inherently more difficult to discuss than soundbites, so no surprise that this part of the discussion seems to be lacking. Nonetheless, it's a conversation worth having, and not just in terms of Obama. What is Clinton's strategy to reach out to swing voters and independents, AKA a third of the electorate? I can at least see the outlines of a JRE strategy in this regard. If Obama does win big tomorrow, it may be a sign that he has thought through this far better than his detractors would admit.


by animated on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:53:06 PM EST

Recent fervor? (none / 0)

See, just because it is recent to you does not mean it is. You simply are not up to speed on the discussion imo. your entire comment addresses strawmen.
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Recent fervor? (none / 0)

What strawmen am I setting up? I read again and again on this site that Obama is basically a Republican, which is silly.

On the recency thing, the ambivalence towards Obama has been around obviously, but it's clearly ramped up in the past month.


by animated on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Recent fervor? (none / 0)

Recent fervor is a strawman for one. you just dropped anotherr, that anyone SERIOUS has called Obama a Republican. You are nothing but strawmen so far.
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:24:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Recent fervor? (none / 0)

You obviously haven't been spending much time reading the diaries on this site:) Whether the people posting are "serious" or not, is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.


by animated on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:34:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have written a good number of the diaries (none / 0)

discussing Obama's style on this site and others. Recent fervor? You are a newbie to this discussion which has been going on for years. It is my view that you are not serious with regard to THIS discussion.
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:53:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have written a good number of the diaries (none / 0)

You are right that I have not posted much on this particular site until recently, but I have been following the conversation for some time. Maybe not as much as you, but so what?

My only point is that there is a good deal of cherrypicking among Clinton and Edwards supporters, which has particularly amped up recently, of Obama's words and actions to try to paint him as not liberal enough or somehow opposed to liberal interests. If that's not relevant to your postings, so be it, but my comment wasn't addressed at you to begin with.


by animated on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 01:07:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It is not relvant to THIS post (none / 0)

which is a serious post addressing the discussion. To bring in the stupid candidate hijinks from Clinton and Edwards flunkies is to miss the point entirely.
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 01:16:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not relvant to THIS post (none / 0)

Except that there is seemingly an increased amount of handwringing going on lately from "serious" bloggers as well. They both seem to push the line that Obama is less liberal than he seems, based on rather trivial items in my view.


by animated on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 02:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Recent fervor? (none / 0)

"If Obama does win big tomorrow, it may be a sign that he has thought through this far better than his detractors would admit."

Isn't this exactly what you said yesterday?


by aiko on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:20:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not at all (none / 0)

I said that Axelrod had thought through how to get Obama elected. Believe it or not, that is something different. Obama supporters believe it is one and the same.
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:25:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not at all (none / 0)

Stop generalizing about Obama supporters. From what I can tell, we all like him for somewhat different reasons and I think that is why his support is coalescing...his politics and his style is complex.


by aiko on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 08:07:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Exactly.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Look guys, Obama can't in a typical red blue race, Wilder effect dooms that strategy to failure.  That's s the phenomenon where voters lie to pollsters to mask latent racism.  It normally saps from 4 to 8 points off a candidate's bottom line.

So ... if you run another 50-50 race with Obama, he's guaranteed to lose.  His only chance of winning is to run a race like Doug Wilder did in 1989, right down the middle of the electorate.  And to prove that he's a change-minded moderate, Obama is following the McCain 2000 model of sticking to fairly orthodox party policies while appropriating the other side's talking points.

So ... what do you care about more ... preserving talking points or winning an election with a candidate who supports your policies?  Because it's the lefty blogosphere that is being shallow here ... Obama's just running the only campaign that has any chance of electing him.


by Dan Conley on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:29:17 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Meant to say "can't win" in the first line ... I wish there were comment edit.


by Dan Conley on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

The evidence is too inconclusive to believe in the Wilder effect any more.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:44:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

IIRC, the Wilder effect was 10 pts so perhaps Dan is right because things would have gotten better by a few points if it's now 4-8.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 08:31:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Actually you're making the case as to why we shouldn't nominate him. After all, we have other candidates who don't have to do this. And would he really govern the way he says? He might not because he would still need to keep the image to have any sway with the voters.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 08:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Nicely written diary, as always, Shaun.

You seem to be assigning Obama credit in the exact same way the Beltway media do it - every time Obama pisses off someone from the orthodox left, that's a point in his favor, completely irrespective of the merits.  Unless by the most amazing of coincidences, every single person who disagrees with the liberal position on Social Security happened to line up with Obama prior to knowing his position on that issue, some of you surely must realize he's wrong.  Yet somehow, it's still a point in his favor, a demonstration of the fact that he's practicing a new kind of politics!

Now, maybe you guys really do happen to disagree with the Democratic orthodoxy on all these various issues.  If that's the case, then more power to you, but then you don't support Obama because he practices a new kind of politics.  You support him because you think he's right on all the issues!

You seem to acknowledge the element of calculation in all this when you say he holds these contrarian positions "by accident or design."  God bless him if it works out for him, but this doesn't seem like the way you motivate the base to turn out or inspire the party activists to work for you.  The derision I've seen directed towards the netroots from Obama supporters over the last couple days has been flat-out ridiculous.  It's like advising the Republicans to run against talk radio.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:43:42 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

The Social Security issue is the one with which I am least comfortable, frankly.  By 'accident or design' I am allowing for both mistakes and calculation, I am certainly not convinced of Obama's infallibility on either point.

But it's not that he is pissing off the left that is his object, my point is that he is sailing a slightly different course to the same destination and maybe he will catch a better breeze.  That's the whole idea.  You have applauded his outreach to new constituencies yourself, from memory.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

I feel like the argument is sort of: he's a total progressive, so SYFPH and let him say whatever he needs to get elected, and we'll all be fine in the end.  I'm not sure it works that way, and frankly, I'm getting less and less convinced on the progressive point.  I've never seen so many anti-union, anti-trial lawyer, and now anti-netroots arguments as I've seen from Obama supporters in the last few weeks.  It's hard for me to take it as an article of faith that once he gets elected, he'll stop trying to please the media and his newfound base of support by pissing off the left.

I agree with BTD on most matters of progress.  The same is true in this case: both of us say that if Obama's idea works, then great.  I just doubt it will work; I don't see how his trans-partisan style is going to help get downticket Democrats elected to pass his agenda, and in alienating the netroots he's threatening to drive off the infrastructure he will need to help disseminate his arguments.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:31:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

I take your point, there are limits to the tolerances of one's ideals.  It seems to me that the progressive netroots may have defined these more narrowly among themselves, where they in fact do agree at all, than Obama has done in his electioneering.  But that does not mean that Obama's ideals are weaker, just not precisely aligned with the netroots.

And as for infrastructure it seems clear that Obama swooped in and carved himself a healthy, effective chunk of of the Internet without seeking permission or guidance from the titular gate-keepers.  The fact that he did so shows perhaps more awareness of on-line ecology than he is generally credited with.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:19:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I actually do not question his ideals (none / 0)

and never have. I question his poloitical style's EFFECTIVENESS at 'changing the game.' THAT is the primary critique and has been throughout. You pass at it but in my view do not convince. Good discussion in any event. The best we have had on this subject. Good for you.
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:27:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I actually do not question his ideals (none / 0)

Well, perhaps his electoral performance will be an indication of the 'effectiveness' of his style, can you think of a better yardstick?  Excluding the imponderable of his administration's first term achievements?


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:34:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A mandate on issues (none / 0)

will not come from such a campaign as Obama is running now.
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:50:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A mandate on issues (none / 0)

Well it might if incumbent Republicans see an unexpected swing towards the Democratic candidate in their own constituencies.  The reverse has certainly seemed to scare the hell out of sitting Democrats in the past.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 01:06:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I actually do not question his ideals (2.00 / 1)

Let me attempt an analogy here.

You know how every time Obama makes the slightest criticism of a rival, everyone chimes in to say "Whatever happened to the politics of hope????"  Annoying, isn't it?

My belief is that if Obama wins election on this platform, that's exactly the card the Republicans will attempt to play to win every disagreement.  And I think the media, lovers of centrism and compromise that they are, will abet them in this effort.  "Obama said he would govern through bipartisanship and cooperation, but he's refusing to consider [some ridiculous Republican demand].  He seems to have fallen victim to the same partisan gridlock that he once decried, what a shame!"

I don't want a President who has promised to get along, not because I have some innate hatred for getting along, but simply because I am familiar with the Republican tactic of taking an extreme position and demanding that we meet them halfway, time and time again.  I want a President who can say no to that sort of thing, without being subject to criticism for taking a partisan stance.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:59:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I actually do not question his ideals (none / 0)

He hasn't promised to get along, he's suggested that if the disenfranchised and marginalised voters in both parties exerted their electoral will that those willing to engage, such as himself, would be empowered, in both parties.  Everyone else would be worried.  Consider this, instead of criticism for not caving in to Republican demands, each obstacle he faced could be used as an example of Republican intransigence and referred to the media and ultimately to the recalcitrant legislator's constituencies for judgement, for the greater good of the Republic.  With eloquent Obama pressing the point from the presidential bully-pulpit.  Seems slightly more plausible, really.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 01:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I actually do not question his ideals (2.00 / 1)

He never said the politics of hope meant that he would never criticize another candidate, either.  Yet he runs into that talking point time and time again.

I feel like you're engaging in faith-based politics here.  Obama has never shown an inclination to call out the Republicans for their obstructionism, not in the Senate, not on the campaign trail.  Yet you're telling me that if he gets elected, suddenly he'll start pointing out Republican intransigence and the whole world will rise up in condemnation, figuring that if reasonable Obama is saying it, then it must be the Republican's fault.  As you might gather from my tone, I believe this scenario exists solely in fantasyland.

There is a long, long history of Democrats speaking the language of bipartisanship and doing their best to appear reasonable.  There is no evidence that this causes the Democrats to gain the benefit of the doubt whenever an instance of partisan gridlock comes along.  No one says "the Democrats promised to be bipartisan, so if something's not working, it must be the fault of the other guys."  I don't think this routine would work for Obama either.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 02:14:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I actually do not question his ideals (none / 0)

Well, your Symposium comment tended to conflate the distinction between rhetoric and logic but perhaps it is worth unravelling them in this instance.  Rhetorically there is no reason why this tactic would succeed but if an undercurrent of swing, maybe even a rip tide of presidential Democratic preference appeared in the constituencies of Republican incumbents a different dynamic would be apparent.  Plato conflated rhetoric and logic intentionally and appropriately on the subject of love.  I have always found Socrates a more vigorous if unpredictable interlocutor, even in Plato's fragile hands.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 04:04:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Great diary.

I've had similar thoughts for awhile.

The way I've always framed it is as follows:

Progressives have longed for a candidate who can sell strongly progressive positions in a way that sweeps up independents and moderates.  Now that they've been presented with just such a candidate, many are rejecting him on the basis of the very quality that allows him to sell those policies to the center

The suggestion that Obama is a conservative or centrist is laughable. In 2004 a candidate with his platform (against the Iraq war initially, wants to reduce combat troops to just a few thousand, wants to openly negotiate--without preconditions--with Iran, wants to radically open up gov't through the use of technology, organizes 500,000 grassroots donors, wants to build a massive gov't-run health care market available to every adult American w/ path to single-payer and mandate for anyone under 18, wants to raise taxes on people making over 100K--and is open to donuthole style tax hikes at that--on social security, is for "strong" civil unions...

that candidate would've been the most radically left politician in the primary (well, maybe to the right of Kucinich, but that's it).  

Now they have a candidate with that platform, and he's wildly popular with political independents and even pretty popular with moderate GOPers.  And Krugman and friend want to abandon him b/c...he tells those people he understands their concerns, their worldview is just as valid as his or Krugman's, that he might even agree with them here or there on some issues...

What I don't understand is how anyone plans to sell the country on anything while telling anyone that disagrees with you that their base assumptions are wrong and they need to get in line.  That seems to be the approach Krugman wants to take.

That's not how you persuade.

If you want to get someone to listen, the first step is disarming their defenses, and you do that by reaffirming the validity of their currently-held beliefs.  Saying to GOPers "Your concerns are valid" isn't some Lieberman-esque betrayal of progressive prinicple; it's how you get moderate GOPers to vote for you even though you're a Democrat


by mopper8 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:28:07 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (2.00 / 1)

Right after I post this, of course, I see this video posted on DailyKos:

Obama makes the case himself


by mopper8 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:34:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

The point that I think you miss is in your basic premises. We have not had "two sides, locked in epic struggle." We have had one side leading an onslaught and the people whose job it is to make sure things stay safe are doing everything they can to stayout of the limelight. I'm talking about Democratic officeholders here.

The point is to win two fights at once. One within the party and one in the country at large. Obama seems to be conceding the first front.

It is the path to election, and it may also help keep him alive in the long run. People forget he is taking a huge personal risk in that regard. He has a right to not want to be inflammatory.

FWIW I think Obama has a good strategy. And I wonder if the blogosphere will be right there to have his back when the right wing assault machine gears up after letting Obama feel comfortable in the West Wing for 0.00014 seconds. Because he is setting them up. When they come after him we will need a the millions of online voices to repeat over and over Obama's mandate for coming together and ending the "partisan bickering."


by chimneyswift on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:43:12 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

When will the Democrats ever get it through their thick skulls that the only reason Clinton won the White House in '92 was because of Ross Perot.


by Sweetooth on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:44:21 PM EST

Re: Changing the Game (2.00 / 1)

The visual impact of the graph is indicative of the disenfranchisement of a significant number of registered voters who have opted out of the partisan trench warfare, either through fatigue, ideological differences with party platforms or a sense that the political process is not being furthered by the estrangement of both adversaries.

I don't really see in this list one of the key motivators of Ross Perot's and Ralph Nader's supporters: the notion that there had become no clear difference between the two parties. If you recall Perot's arguments: What he was FOR was deficit-reduction, of course, that's what all the charts were about; but what was he railing AGAINST was the influence of corporate lobbyists - especially those lobbying for bad trade policies.  Nader of course was also all about reining in corporate influence, and was also against those trade policies, even if some of his emphasis - i.e. on the military-industrial complex, and imperialist foreign policy - diverged from Perot's more traditionalist/conservative views.

In other words, they both were both tapping into a potent political theme - that average Americans are getting screwed over by big, monied interests.  And that both parties have been co-opted by these interests.

But there was once a party that was very clearly the party of the little guy, and against the monied interests. That was the party exemplified by the rhetoric and politics of Franklin Roosevelt.

FDR's rhetoric and politics were good and powerful and winning - and had a tranformational effect - they made the average American's view of the role of government shift toward progressivism, just as Reagan's unabashedly conservative rhetoric and politics shifted that view toward conservatism.  These presidents proved that such transformational shifts in the common view of government can last decades, even generations.

I am drawn to the candidacy of John Edwards because he, like FDR, is expressing an unabashed rhetoric and politics of populism/progressivism - so there is great potential for his rhetoric and politics to be transformational and long-lasting.  That potential is strengthened, of course, by the fact that Edwards - like FDR and Reagan - happens to have an appealing, carismatic personality.

None of this is to detract from Obama - who is an unquestionably appealing candidate and who, I think, has the potential to be a great president - but just to show why I'm drawn more to Edwards's candidacy.


Keep it short. DemocraticShortList.com
by Rob in Vermont on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:44:37 PM EST

Excellent comment (none / 0)


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:08:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Well, I guess the thesis of the diary was that the electorate suspects the partisan conflict is just ideological 'bread and circuses' while power and influence is continuously aggrandised in the hands of an elite which is largely indifferent to the outcome, so long as their position remains unchallenged.  In that context your assessment of the appeal of Perot's and Nader's candidacies, which I agree with, seems well aligned.  

My point about the differences being blurred specifically related to the area of the national economy and the prosperity of individual citizens being the casualty of partisanship and was not well identified with the disenfranchised voters illustrated elsewhere in the diary, my apologies.

I can well understand your support for Edwards, as he has also tapped into these lost constituencies.  From where I sit he stands to regain, with his partisan approach, portions of the former  Democratic component.  Obama, it seems to me, could more easily cultivate support from the broader independent electorate.
 


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:10:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Brother, Can You Spare a Dime? (none / 0)

There was a depression and 25% unemployment in 1932.  It's my opinion that this is the only type of climate where populism could win a national election and control the national agenda.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 02:22:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Brother, Can You Spare a Dime? (none / 0)

And yet, Harry Truman won a stunning upset with a populist campaign in 1948.  You might need to revise that opinion a bit.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 02:28:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Nice piece. I think a lot of the sniping at Obama from the sidelines is pretty silly and probably inconsequential. This thing will be one with charisma, small money donations and grassroots mobilization in neighborhoods across America. A few purity trolls in the progressive blogosphere aren't going to change much.


by dmc2 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:53:34 PM EST

Purity trolls (none / 0)

You are a shining exampel of what I am referring to - what a stupid comment.
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 12:51:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Obama is going to destroy the net-roots.

I think it's funny.


by Louverture on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 02:28:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Changing the Game (2.00 / 1)

Great diary Shaun.

Is the partisan conflict just ideological 'bread and circuses' while power and influence is continuously aggrandised in the hands of an elite which is largely indifferent to the outcome, so long as their position remains unchallenged?  The electorate is apparently beginning to wonder.

Some voters have wondered this for decades.

It is Obama's work on voter rights, election finance reform, ethics and transparency that I am most excited about.  I don't see a better chance to give some power back to voters.  (I like Edwards, but see stronger credentials in Obama's record.)  

I also buy into this:

But what of the electorate?  ...They are increasingly disenfranchised by this struggle and have been leaving the field as the conflict becomes more protracted and merciless.

This is a problem for Dems because they are more successful when there is bigger turnout.  What's the best way to turn this around in the long term?  I'm not sure, but there is are insights like this from Obama that really resonate with me:

The bottom line is that our job is harder than the conservatives' job. After all, it's easy to articulate a belligerent foreign policy based solely on unilateral military action, a policy that sounds tough and acts dumb; it's harder to craft a foreign policy that's tough and smart. It's easy to dismantle government safety nets; it's harder to transform those safety nets so that they work for people and can be paid for. It's easy to embrace a theological absolutism; it's harder to find the right balance between the legitimate role of faith in our lives and the demands of our civic religion. But that's our job. And I firmly believe that whenever we exaggerate or demonize, or oversimplify or overstate our case, we lose. Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. A polarized electorate that is turned off of politics, and easily dismisses both parties because of the nasty, dishonest tone of the debate, works perfectly well for those who seek to chip away at the very idea of government because, in the end, a cynical electorate is a selfish electorate.


by Satya on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 05:42:15 AM EST

Re: Changing the Game (none / 0)

Well, I'm a skeptic. Obama's campaign is the Tsongas campaign, the Hart campaign, and the Bradley campaign. To a degree, Obama is in a bind-- he might not be able to win with this campaign, but he certainly can't win without it, either. He's playing to his strengths, but I simply don't think that's good enough to take him over the top.

The important issue is whether Obama is going to drive the national dialog to the left or keep it on the right. He seems to insist on keeping the national dialog firmly on the right. Obama is, in this sense, not "game changing." If elected, he might muddle through with what he has, but after 4 to 8 years, we'll be back where we started from, listening to national campaigns whose dialogs begin from the same right-wing premises.


by Constantine on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 08:15:46 AM EST


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