Caucus Irregularities

I'm reading a lot about accusations of voting irregularities and voter suppression tactics at various caucus locations on the part of the Clinton campaign. I saw no evidence of it at The Wynn, nor did my contacts I've spoken to at a North LV caucus site or at the Mirage, but my friend thereisnospoon catalogs the accusations, including his own first hand observations, over at dailyKos, and it's very disturbing if true.

Marc Ambinder has the Obama campaign's official statement on the reports of irregularities:

"We currently have reports of over 200 separate incidents of trouble at caucus sites, including doors being closed up to thirty minutes early, registration forms running out so people were turned away, and ID being requested and checked in a non-uniform fashion. This is in addition to the Clinton campaign's efforts to confuse voters and call into question the at-large caucus sites which clearly had an affect on turnout at these locations. These kinds of Clinton campaign tactics were part of an entire week's worth of false, divisive, attacks designed to mislead caucus-goers and discredit the caucus itself."

Dave spoke with Jill Derby, chair of the NV Democratic Party about whether they intend to launch investigations and she said that it was unlikely, that it was up to individual voters to pursue legal action if they felt their rights were infringed.

Depending on how big this story gets, the mere accusations could taint Clinton's win going into South Carolina.



Display:


Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

these could just be accusations.


by American1989 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:07:18 PM EST

Obama is looking short-sighted, self-serving, (none / 0)

and foolish.

Complaining like this and not giving a graceful concession speech is just going to make him look like a sore loser.

Trying to taint Clinton is not going to help Obama win the nomination, and it might hurt Hillary in November.

Thus, Obama appears to be self-serving, at the expense of the Democratic Party in November.

Frankly, Obama knows that he is in trouble, heading into FL and Feb 5th - basically, it's over for him unless he can throw a hail mary pass.  The chips are down, and so he's getting desperate.

Maybe, too, Obama's camp is trying to distract folks from the Rezko scandal, which has implicated Obama in a minor way.


by enthusiast on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:16:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh, no! Caucues are notoriously (none / 0)

difficult to plan, execute and manage, with all their idiosyncracies. Rules subject to interpretation, partisans trying to gain advantage, amateurs (no disrepect intended) trying to figure it all out.  I don't think I've seen a better argument for reforming, or actually eliminating caucuses.  


by santamonicadem on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re Stop giving your candidate a pass (none / 0)

Obama could walk on water, or turn water to wine, and you would probably find something wrong with it.

Let me suggest a better response on every ones part.  Let's wait and find out if there is anything to these allegations.  If there was a pattern of Clinton voter suppression, I believe that would be very significant.  Are you willing to just give your preferred candidate a pass on this issue?

Those of us who support Obama should not overreact to these allegations, but HRC supporters should not dismiss these allegations out of hand.  The Clintons supported a "sour grapes" lawsuit after they lost the Culinary Workers endorsement.  The Clinton campaign has sent out misleading fliers in both NH and Nevada.  They have twisted Obama statements and positions as much as possible.  If there was a pattern of dirty tricks in Nevada it should be taken seriously.

Trying looking at the campaign with at least some level of objective evauluation rather than automatically cheering for your candidate.


by upper left on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re Stop giving your candidate a pass (none / 0)

OK, here's a level of objective evaluation for you:

Hillary Clinton has kicked Obama's ass in three straight primaries.


by hwc on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re Stop giving your candidate a pass (none / 0)

Your enthusiasm seems to have impaired your counting:

NH = 1
Nevada = 2

If you are trying to count MI where HRC barely broke 50% against "uncommitted" then good luck.

Snark aside, why are you so fricking hostile?  You have slammed Obama and his supporters relentlessly for months now,  I do not understand how you think your approach is persuasive to anyone who does not already agree with you.


by upper left on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:20:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you gotta be shitting me (2.00 / 1)

That story won't last a freaking hour except in the wild imaginations of some bloggers. What is up with you Todd?
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:07:20 PM EST

After NH (none / 0)

you should have seen this one coming a mile away. The hysteria knows no bounds apparently.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

And the spinning continues by the Obama campaign.


by lonnette33 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:07:25 PM EST

That's the aim of these Obama clowns. (2.00 / 1)

They couldn't care less that Limbaugh will talk this up for months.


by ottovbvs on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:07:57 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

It seems to me that after every win Hill has pulled off the Obama camp starts a controversy!

"she didnt cry for katrina, Obama is a fairytale, and LBJ did more tham MLK"

those were after NH

"voter suppression, closing the doors, id required"

thats after Nev!

COMPLETELY OUTRAGIOUS!!!!!!  We can not stan for this!


by boxer4hrc on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:09:17 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

They have no right to talk about "irregularities" after what they did.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:10:10 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

Those Clinton goons must have strong-armed the entrance polls too.  Bastards!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:10:15 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

thank you


by world dictator on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:14:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete Crock (none / 0)

What an absolute crock.  First Hillary wins New Hampshire, and so they demand a recount bellowing about massive electoral fraud.  What has been found--hardly anything.

Then in Nevada, the casinos, which so many said were controlled by the union and would give Obama a huge victory because of it, now likewise vote for Clinton despite all the odds, and then the Obama partisans bellow massive electoral fraud.

See a pattern.  

Obama had tonnes of poll watchers and union members who could have fixed any issue in a jiffy.

This is pure sour grapes plain and simple, and very poor sportsmanship and character.


I like the silence of a church, before the service begins better than any preaching. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
by Norwegian Chef on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:11:42 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

I wasn't there, but for what it's worth, there were reports from the Young Voter PAC that Clinton folks tried to keep them out of the NY, NY caucus site, and that the Clinton folks were challenging everything.

To be clear, the YVP folks were credentialed as press and were only there to observe.  They weren't participants.  

I believe Clinton won at that precinct.

FWIW . . .


Youth to Power
by Mike Connery on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:12:45 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

thats an incredible vague statement to be using even as circumstantial evidence. "tried to keep them out"  could mean numerous things. And challenging everything, even in the worse terms, is hardly voter suppression.


by world dictator on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you in the habit (none / 0)

of tossing out wild accusation with no evidence?
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

Stupidity has no end in Obma's camapaign...

Get rid of caucus then!!

Typical whining candidate who will be deserted by voters in the end.


by prisonbreak on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:15:24 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

Well, it's smarter than making race an issue after New Hampshire. I'll give them that.


by souvarine on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:15:40 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

Wait, I hear a Clinton supporter, using telekenisis, forced Obama and Edwards supporters into her corner to vote for her. That b**ch.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
by AnnC on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:17:19 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

WTF? CNN is showing Hill to get 15 Dels and Barry to get 13 Dels.


by lonnette33 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:17:41 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

They may have included superdelegates.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:23:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

OH!


by lonnette33 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ironic (2.00 / 1)

Isn't it ironic that the candidate of "change" and "cleaning up politics" has turned out to be one of the most questionable candidates in awhile.


by world dictator on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:18:11 PM EST

Re: Ironic (none / 0)

What are you talking about?  The hysteria in this thread is palpable.  Rather than giving your candidate an automatic pass, why don't you wait for the facts to emerge?

Once again you make huge sweeping assertions based on ....  based on nothing.

You may prefer Clinton, but why do you, and so many other HRC supporters, insist on demonizing Obama?


by upper left on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ironic (none / 0)

The only demonizing going on is from the Obama campaign's sour grapes over losing Nevada.


by world dictator on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Irony is seeing HRC as a victim (none / 0)

You apparently took my response as some sort of trash talk, it was not intended that way.  I was trying to ask you two serious and sincere questions:

What has Obama done that you think is so terrible?

Why do you and others insist on demonizing him?

He has run a largely positive campaign.  He has engaged in far less negative campaigning than HRC, and yet you and many of your fellow HRC supporters act as if she is the victim.  I find it puzzling and disturbing.


by upper left on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:14:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Irony is seeing HRC as a victim (none / 0)

If its an honest question asked with civility I can anwser in honesty with civility

1. I don't think Obama is terrible. He's not the anti christ. And an Obama adminstration is much better than a GOP adminstration. HOWEVER, I have the following problems with Obama.

A) I think he's more or less a hypocrite. And I don't even mean that in a "you as a person have a character flaw" way. But from the beginning Obama promised to run a clean campaign and one that would clean up politics. He benefits to this day from that perception. But in reality Obama says one thing and does another. In both states he's lost he's tried to taint the victory of the winner by blaming something other than himself for his loss. When he lost NH it was "racist NH voters/Hillary cried (but she didn't cry for Katrina)" In NV it was "oh lets change the standards we use to evaluate a win to make us look good." or "oh there was all this voter suppression" etc.

Obama should be mature enough to be gracious in defeat. But at the very least don't try to steal the election after the fact. I'm tired of Obama getting a free ride from voters and the media as being the "Mr Clean" when really he' one of the shadiest politicians in awhile. AT THE VERY LEAST, he's just as shady as any other politician, in which he shouldn't be promising to change politics as we know it.


by world dictator on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

Sore losers at the Obama campaign, that's all it is. Move on to South Carolina. If Obama doesn't win there he's toast. Being sore loses like this will only increase him chances of a loss there.


by Christopher Lib on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:19:09 PM EST

Obama's Faux Victimhood (2.00 / 1)

First Obama played the black-race card, then the latino-race card, and now he's playing the vote fraud card.

He will lose Reagan Democrats and Latinos in droves if he continues to play the victim.


by BigBoyBlue on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:19:28 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

Obama is such a child.  He would be no where if not for the fawning of the MSM for more than a year.  And he has yet to take any real punches.

His "win" in Iowa came purely out of those thousands of bused-in and paid for outsiders, who had little if anything to do with the Democratic base.  Yet he was anointed by the MSM and blogosphere right afterwards--and he had a scant single delegate more granted him than Hillary.

After New Hampshire, the Obama forces went home playing the race cards and calling for a recount.

After Michigan, the Obama forces called Clinton's win--and the near quarter of million voters who cast their ballots for her--as being "meaningless."

After Nevada, the Obama forces hadn't the class to congratulate the winner--and 51% is certainly a substantial win.  If she didn't receive at least one additional delegate, that certainly is the Nevada caucus' fault, and not Senator Clinton's.  Such an allocation would stink to high heaven--and the strench would be with Obama.

Obama has been spanked three times; outside of South Carolina and Illinois, he is not likely to win again.

Thank God.  Let this Reagan Democrat find his own party.


by lambros on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:20:28 PM EST

The Obama campaign is dirty (2.00 / 1)

They sent Jessie Jackson Jr. out the afternoon after Clintons win in NH to change the subject.  He flipped the race card and tied Katrina to New Hampshire and claimed that Hillary didn't care about Katrina victims.

An African American male connecting Katrina to NH, think about it.

Same thing here.   Obama campaign, the same day he is tied to the Rezco indictemnt, by the Sun-Times, talks about voter nonsense?  The state where Obama had the most union support?   A union that was accused of intimidation?

Obama has NO SHAME.


by dpANDREWS on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:21:10 PM EST

Obama's scumbag tactics (none / 0)

ID was checked?   So Obama is trying to turn Latinos against Clinton.   Hey, Barry, YOU GOT DUSTED BY LATINOS.

Latinos are smart.  They see through Barry Obama, and his friend, mentor and pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright like GLASS!


by dpANDREWS on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:23:49 PM EST

Axelrod and Co (2.00 / 1)

will do or say anything to hurt hillary and benefit his awesomeness.

after the disgrace of their charging the clintons of being racists, it is very, very clear that the strategists in obama's camp are shameless.

we will have to stomp them down and beat them over and over, we are game.


Offend the Media - Vote for Hillary!
by Seymour Glass on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:24:41 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

FWIW, I cacused in Reno this morning and the whole thing had a very festive and friendly feel to it.  No irregularities, no problems (except that they were not prepared for the massive turnout and had to improvise on preference ballots).  Our precinct was expecting 56 people and we ended up with 249.  I caucused for Edwards.  It looked like we weren't going to be viable (at which point both the Obama and Clinton camps started chanting for us to come join them).  In the end, we ended up bringing a couple of wavering Obama supporters to our side and ended up with one delegate.  Obama and Clinton got 3 each.  It was a great day.  Sorry to hear that there were problems elsewhere.


by addieloggins on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:26:33 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

Oh jesus. I wrote about the confusion going on at my caucus throughout the day but this is really pushing it. It does unfortunatelty seem anytime Obama doesn't win anything, "there's some sort of conspriacy here at play"....how about at my precient where the obama head wouldn't give a clinton supporter a ballot because "they were all out" and finally magically found one when there was un uproar? Or how about how we had 60 supporters for clinton yet he only counted 48? Give me a fucking break. This is why you just do a primary in the first place.


by werd2406 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:31:31 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

Oh jesus. I wrote about the confusion going on at my caucus throughout the day but this is really pushing it. It does unfortunatelty seem anytime Obama doesn't win anything, "there's some sort of conspriacy here at play"....how about at my precient where the obama head wouldn't give a clinton supporter a ballot because "they were all out" and finally magically found one when there was un uproar? Or how about how we had 60 supporters for clinton yet he only counted 48? Give me a fucking break. This is why you just do a primary in the first place.


by werd2406 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:32:53 PM EST

Barry Obama is a dirty Chicago Pol (2.00 / 1)

He had the most field offices, he had the big endorsement, he had the big rallies.

He lost.

He was so arrogant in defeat he flew out of NV like a child before the final results were in.  He is going home to sulk.  He couldn't even drum up an Obama speech to thank his supports and the union that stuck their neck out for him.

Now he and his supporters are revisting their strategy after New Hampshire.   After Obama got lazy and blew a huge lead in NH he cried racism.  He sent Jessie Jackson Jr. out to attack Clinton on race, and to make a bizarre connection between losing NH and Clinton not crying for victims of Katrina (she didn't?).

Now Obama and his dirty Chicago style campaign is pulling Obama / Rezco style sleaze and trying to attack a fellow Democrat.  I guess those Reagan Democrats didn't carry Obama  to victory and he is angry about that.


by dpANDREWS on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:38:35 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (2.00 / 1)

Is Obama the sorest loser or what?

It was racism in New Hampshire.

Then, he's whining about how his Michigan beating didn't count.

Now, he's jumping up and down throwing a temper tantrum about Nevada.

All while lacking the class to congratulate Clinton in New Hampshire or even show up to thank his supporters in Nevada.

What a loser.


by hwc on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:44:43 PM EST

I agree with Clinton Bloggers (none / 0)

Accustations of voting fraud against the Clinton campaign should not be promoted unless there is a tremendous amount of evidence.  Accusations like this should not be promoted just because you think it benefits your candidate.  

However, I would ask these outraged Clinton supporters why they promoted this idea that a union has no right to endorse someone other than candidate.  That the culindary union was mob like thugs because they were promoting their agenda.  That these tactics should be expected from a union.  Every candiate has union support (I doubt many  had a membership vote to determine their candidate - AFSCME did not).  Pursuing a political program is not manipulation.


by labor nrrd on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:46:14 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

so nasty, jesus. When it comes to policy all the candidates are practically indistinguishable. However the Clintons were a big fan of triangulation.  If you will remember they caved on dont ask, NAFTA, and Iraq.

BTW

Undies Sided.  What the hell is wrong with republicans crossing over to vote for a democrat. Do you want us to lose the general?!?


bentheben
by bentheben on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:51:32 PM EST

repubs can vote for us in nov (2.00 / 1)

but they should stay the F out of our party's  primary system!

what the heck is wrong with you cultists?!


Offend the Media - Vote for Hillary!
by Seymour Glass on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:54:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

u r right!


Offend the Media - Vote for Hillary!
by Seymour Glass on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:48:57 PM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

The Clintons aren't doing anything but being smarter and more gracious than Obama is.  There are ridiculous accusations of voter fraud (WTF? - it's a CAUCUS!) and system manipulation etc. etc.

In the NH primary, Hillary actually came in 2nd if you go by theoretical delegates awarded.  It was Obama 16, Hillary 15, Edwards 14.

Yet... you didn't hear Hillary whining about how she was really 2nd, not 3rd.  

All of this complaining and false cries of foul are making Obama look very, very bad.  It makes him look like a petty excuse maker.


by HypeJersey on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 12:21:05 AM EST

Pathetic. I cannot believe how (none / 0)

pathetic you are being.  Jesus, stop helping Obama swiftboat Hillary, you are losing every shred of credibility.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:56:27 AM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

Wow!  You folks seemed to have worked yourselves up into one heck of a lather.  I have a radical idea, how about taking a breath, and waiting to find if there is any substance to these allegations before you leap to conclusions.

What is with your collective need to demonize Obama?  He has run what almost all independent observers consider to be a largely positive campaign.  HRC has been launching far more attacks on Obama, than vice-versa, but you are all acting as though HRC is some kind of victim.  I find your collective hostility difficult to understand and very troubling.


by upper left on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:55:10 AM EST

Re: Caucus Irregularities (none / 0)

the mere accusations could taint Clinton's win going into South Carolina

That would appear to be the point of pushing the accusations.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 10:32:14 AM EST


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