An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want

This morning, Nevada's largest newspaper, The Las Vegas Review Journal, endorsed Barack Obama in the Democratic caucuses. But, as dpANDREWS rightly points out, it's a backhanded compliment at best. The newspaper is fiercely conservative and the editorial's contempt for Democrats, Hillary Clinton in particular, drips from every word.

As state Democrats prepare to hold their Saturday caucuses, cynical Republicans might well encourage them to choose Sen. Hillary Clinton, figuring her high "negatives" -- the unusual number of Americans who tell pollsters they'd never vote for her under any circumstances -- would virtually guarantee a GOP victory in the fall. [...]

The Clinton campaign cites Sen. Clinton's "experience." In fact, she's a one-term-plus-a-year senator whose lackluster legislative record rivals Sen. Obama's. Other than that, the "experience" in question must surely refer to her presence as a witness and enabler during her husband's presidential terms.

And as for their love of Obama? Lesser of the evils seems to sum up their choice.

But Barack Obama is, at least, likeable. He is a good enough orator that there is no need to cringe when he dares to speak off the cuff. He is a good politician, in the non-insulting sense that he knows how to speak to individual Americans and give them the feeling he cares about their concerns.

As Nevada Democrats head to their caucuses Saturday, they might ask themselves whether they really want to spend two months later this year watching a re-run of the horror movie "It Came From Little Rock," with the sound turned up much too loud -- or if they'd rather make it a real contest this fall.

Not surprising then to find the Obama team not exactly touting this endorsement; notice it's nowhere to be found on BarackObama.com where, normally, they'd proudly post newspaper endorsements. On one hand, this is a classy move, since the editorial is essentially one big hit piece on Hillary Clinton. But at the same time, is there an element of self-preservation at play here? Could having this right-wing paper on his side actually backfire on Obama? Yesterday on Hardball, Las Vegas Sun columnist Jon Ralston suggested the RJ endorsement could be a "turnout driver for Hillary." He elaborates in a post on the Las Vegas Sun blog today:

The Las Vegas Review-Journal's endorsement this morning of Barack Obama is an exemplar of intellectual bankruptcy, designed to be an attack on Hillary Clinton by using a phony embrace of Obama. It is likely to have the opposite effect because Democratic activists loathe the RJ -- and they are who will be voting Saturday. And with the RJ's track record on major endorsements, this could be, as CityLife Editor Steve Sebelius put it, the kiss of death for Obama's campaign.

Ralston could have a pro-Clinton agenda here, of course, I'm not sure, but he also could be onto something. Anyone with more knowledge of the Las Vegas political dynamics care to weigh in?

Update [2008-1-16 15:9:0 by Todd Beeton]:A couple things. First of all, I'm informed in the comments that the endorsement was touted on BarackObama.com earlier, I just missed it. Also, someone with knowledge of Vegas politics contacted me to let me know that Ralston's statements about Las Vegas Democrats' feelings about the Las Vegas Review Journal are absolutely accurate; it's the equivalent to us of the WSJ editorial page. world dictator in the comments seems to concur.



Display:


dpAndrews is overinterpreting the meaning. (none / 0)

I doubt that most Democrats don't think about the slant of the paper one way or another.  Yes, junkies do, but not the vast majority.

Some single mom with two kids who is a member of the Culinary Union probably isn't too concerned about it.  

However, SOME people who think Barack as too inexperienced and/or too liberal may indeed be influenced (not swayed, i doubt anyone is ever swayed by an endorsement) by the paper's editorial.


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:28:15 PM EST

Re: dpAndrews is overinterpreting the meaning. (none / 0)

I think people who read the paper know the difference.   People know the difference between the Washington Post and the Washington Times for instance.   My guess is people in Vegas who read newspapers, or who vote in Caucuses, know the difference.   Rightwing papers are not usually subtle in their slant.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dpAndrews is overinterpreting the meaning. (none / 0)

Oh sure -

Partisan sentiment it is, I still have to agree with the poster above...

I can't see how anyone who might have otherwise either stayed home or voted differently suddenly either deciding to caucus or support a certain candidate because of an endorsement backlash.

I'm highly suspicious of anyone voting the affirmative based on a paper's endorsement (at least for Pres... I don't rely solely on - but do read and use endorsements waaayyyy down ticket) - even more so suspicious of a negative endorsement effect.

FWIW, I do think the upside here for Obama is give a cutesy thanks-but-no-thanks to endorsement... and even as a supporter, I'd like him all the more if he did so... but I suspect that the larger thematic tenor of his campaign makes that a tightrope not worth walking.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:49:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dpAndrews is overinterpreting the meaning. (none / 0)

As a Las Vegas resident who's political active I am being 100% sincere when I say that the Review Journal is a hated among democrats. Even people who aren't really political active know that the paper is hard right conservative. We're talking Republican Revolution I wish 3/4 of the government were gone type of conservatives.


by world dictator on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dpAndrews is overinterpreting the meaning. (none / 0)

I am not from Vegas, but here in Tampa we have a very similar newspaper dynamic, with two major newspapers, one right-wing, one liberal.  I doubt there is a single politically somewhat involved person who does NOT know that the St. Petersburg Times tilts strongly to the left, and the Tampa Tribune tilts strongly to the right.   I assume the same is true for most Las Vegas residents in regards to the political tilt of the LV Journal vs. the LV Sun.  


by georgep on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dpAndrews is overinterpreting the meaning. (none / 0)

I lived in Las Vegas for 7 years. Both of the papers in Reno and Las Vegas are despised by NV workers as they are both consistently Republican, and anti union.

Obama's surrogates were running around Vegas and Reno yesterday with flyers asking that Republicans join in the Democratic caucus to defeat Clinton, and of course, this doesn't affect their general vote but....JOIN US IN DEFEATING HILLARY CLINTON.

Obama camp said guy was fired who did this. Sure.
GOP wants Obama to run.  He's a much easier target and they are lining up lots of Chicago and lackluster US Senate material.

Whenever anyone mentions any negatives about Obama, David Axelrod's response is "The average person cares not one whit about this".

He could, unfortunately be right.


by morris1030 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 08:34:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dpAndrews is overinterpreting the meaning. (none / 0)

>>>GOP wants Obama to run.  He's a much easier target and they are lining up lots of Chicago and lackluster US Senate material.

You lose credibility when you make carte blanche statements like that couched in opinion as fact.  Just who are you to make a blanket statement like that without backing it up with some analysis.

Who are you that people ought to listen to you?  Oh, yeah, you're a Hillbot, so logic won't sink in.


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Barack just can't win with you guys.


by dmc2 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:29:16 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

His record is clearly something you are avoiding, or you are ignorant of his real politics and affiliations and rise in Chi political Pritzker machine.

His donors and supporters [who he will owe] are the biggest companies in US fron nuclear energy,medical,nursing homes,med equipment,Savings & Loans, and SO much more.

I'm amazed you can avoid reading about his sweetheart real estate deal with Tony Rezko who has just been indicted for corruption. The property Rezko sold to Obama was worth 300,000, and Obama paid $165,000. Rezko a dem. fundraiser was indited in 6million kickback scheme. Rezko raised $60,000 for Obama which $11,500 had to be returned.

There's a lot more. You just don't wanna know.


by morris1030 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 08:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

it isn't really classy of Obama not to have it on his site. He touted it there all day yesterday. it was removed today. I think they did that to take away from the egg on their faces. This just goes to show that he and his people need to pay better attention to those day to day things he is not good at taking care of. Then he might have known the paper's reputation.
by americanincanada on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:29:25 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Is this newspaper left enough for you:

San Francisco Bay Guardian endorses Obama -

http://www.sfbg.com/printable_entry.php? entry_id=5430


by dmc2 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:31:03 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

I'm sure they are.  After all, they also endorsed Ron Paul and Cynthia McKinney.  But I wish Obama and his supporters would pay more attention to the criticism that some of us keep repeating:

The cost of his soaring rhetoric is a disappointing lack of specific plans. It can be hard at times to tell exactly what Obama stands for, exactly how he plans to carry out his ambitious goals. His stump speeches are riddled with words like change and exhortations to a new approach to politics, but he doesn't talk much, for example, about how to address the gap between the rich and the poor, or how to tackle urban crime and poverty, or whether Israel should stop building settlements in the occupied territories.

In fact, our biggest problem with Obama is that he talks as if all the nation needs to do is come together in some sort of grand coalition of Democrats and Republicans, of "blue states and red states." But some of us have no interest in making common cause with the religious right or Dick Cheney or Halliburton or Don Fisher. There are forces and interests in the United States that need to be opposed, defeated, consigned to the dustbin of history, and for all of Obama's talk of unity, we worry that he lacks the interest in or ability to take on a tough, bloody fight against an entrenched political foe.

Keep in mind that, as you said, this is from an endorsement.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Amen. I mean I am familiar with this paper and they have a slant that is much more in line with Ron Paul than any one else. Did you even read the endorsement before you posted this? They say as much nice things about Clinton as they do about Obama. You need to pay attention to the down side...this paper does...we do...you should.
by americanincanada on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:45:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Did you read the Ron Paul endorsement:

He clearly shouldn't be president. But he won't -- Paul isn't going to win the nomination. So it's worthwhile endorsing him as a protest vote for two reasons. His presence on the ballot serves to show up some of the hypocrisies of the rest of the GOP field -- and he is absolutely correct and insightful on one of the most important issues of the day: the war.


by Piuma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (2.00 / 1)

And your point is?! Their endorsement of Obama is muted at best and speaks just as highly of Senator Clinton in it's own way. Obama supporters refuse to see his negatives and I have a feeling you will pay a price for that.
by americanincanada on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:51:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Disagreeing that something is a negative does not mean we don't see things.  I hear them, I see it, I don't agree with it.  When you are a community organizer you learn to be tenacious is a much different way, but not less effective, than a courtroom lawyer.  Clinton fought for us for Health Care and failed miserably not because she didn't have the guts for the fight, she lacked the skill.  Edwards in his new populist skin claims to be ready to take on the entrenched corporate interests in a bloody fight but where outside of the courtroom has he shown an ability to win?  He accomplished near fuck-all as a Senator and as a Populist he hasn't even been able to beat back the media.  All he's done is flail about, angry and ineffective. So don't mischaracterize my skepticism of what the Guardian guards against a refusal about anything other than thinking they are wrong, and that the skills learned as a community organizer are a lot more effective in fighting special interests who rely on bad faith than playing their game and swinging wildly when you have a glass chin.


by Piuma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:55:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

And we discussed yesterday the fact that Obama's tough ethics bill lasted about 2 days in Congress before he was forced to accept Harry Reid's watered-down substitute.  That's how things tend to play out.  I simply don't see Obama as having the magic ability to prevail on controversial issues where others don't.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

There's nothing "magic" about it.  One, he way more than any other candidate is looking to bring the populace into the process to directly be able to claim a mandate and a mandate which won't just disappear after election day.  He has been fighting this ethics thing pretty much on his own within the Party.  There are just a handful of Senators on his side which is where his ability to enlist across the aisle was crucial.  Apparently you're even more naive than I am if you think this task wasn't handed to a Junior Senator by the Dem caucus without a healthy dose of skepticism anything would be accomplished.  The entrenched interests on Ethics are the middle of each Party, not just the Republicans.  Getting anything passed was quite an accomplishment.  It's not magic, it's being better suited both by his skill and his experience for a style of politics which is more effective than direct in-your-face confrontation.  


by Piuma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

I remember the same "getting anything passed was quite an accomplishment" rhetoric from you when Obama took that universal health care bill in Illinois, talked with all the lobbyists about their concerns, and then turned it into a bill to create a study group.

The idea is supposed to be to defeat the entrenched interests, not to give them whatever they want.  I know, I know, when he's President it's going to be totally different.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:35:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

The fight will just begin when he's President. None of us are under any illusions about that. But the fact is that he's shown more of any ability to fight and win these battles than either of his opponents, and I'm not particularly certain which side Hillary is even on.


by dmc2 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

To be fair, the "how" is missing from all of the Democratic big three.  Edwards plan, for example, essentially requires ushering in huge Democratic majorities so we can accomplish change over the dead corpse of what used to be the GOP.  If that's possible I'm all for it, but I'm not sure about how we're going to destroy the GOP to that extent.  Other than "working hard," I haven't seen much explanation from Senator Clinton regarding how she's going to get her policies passed either.  


by HSTruman on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:45:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anyone (none / 0)

who thinks Obama is not specific on issues has not visted his site and seen in incredible details his proposals for hundreds of issues.


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anyone (none / 0)

Oh please.  Everyone has tons of white papers on their website.  You're completely missing the point.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

The gay population despise Obama's position re: his choice of Church anti gay mouthpiece.

He won't have everyone in SF for sure.


by morris1030 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 08:52:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)


Man, conservatives sure do love Obama.  Odd isn't it, given that he is the "change" candidate and such a progressive force.
by Thaddeus on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:31:47 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Yeah, I have never really understood that.  Is it because Obama is big on the power of simple words to convey political messages, as Bush is?  Or is it because the Repubs want to trample Obama in Nov.?  Maybe it's a little bit of both!


by Zeitgeist9000 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're both wrong (none / 0)

Obama appeals to Indy's and Conservatives because he frames his liberal ideologies in very pragmatic and humane terms that all of us can relate to.

It's that simple. Ronald Reagan had the same gift


by rapcetera on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:43:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both wrong (none / 0)

I remember Ronald Reagan quite well, and I haven't seen anything from Obama that fits that profile.  It disappoints me because I believe Obama has the ability.

Perhaps you could cite some examples of Obama persuading people towards a liberal ideology by using universal language.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It takes time (none / 0)

I remember in 1980 -- even those who would become "Reagan Democrats" were distrustful.

My parents - Carter voters and Carter believers in '76, were disgusted with him '80.   They both basically flipped a coin between Anderson and Carter -- Reagan was too "out there" for them, but they were supremely disappointed in Carter.   By 1984 - they were talking "our unions suck" (teacher and pipefitter -- both active in local union leadership) - because their respective unions dared go against St. Ronny...  completely oblivious to Reagan's policies and such.

If Obama gets the nod - and if he wins the GE (and I worry much more about the nom than I do the GE) - we're not going to see the realignment I think will come for years... but I have absolute faith we will.

Obama sort of lulls and entices -- he doesn't sweep and swamp.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It takes time (none / 0)

I am not saying you're wrong, but just that every time I have this conversation with an Obama supporter, it always seems to end with "trust me, he will get it done."  Maybe he will, but there seems to be a ceiling on the number of people who can be converted with this faith-based approach.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh- absolutely (none / 0)

I'm not saying otherwise - I completely understand where you're coming from.

I even readily accept the possibility that I could be dead wrong (either about Obama's sincerity, his ability -- or even both).

I think a big aspect to the whole discussion is also that if it does work -- we're not likely to be the ones that see it, rather,  I think we won't see it until it's either well under way or maybe even after the fact.  Even with the 84 landslide - I think it's fair to say that it took a decade for even the GOP to buy into the Reagan mythologizing.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:09:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh- absolutely (none / 0)

Recall that Reagan was not only the long-time governor of California, he was also a card-carrying member of the conservative movement who had built up credibility ever since he gave a speech for Goldwater in 1964.  He may have spoken in universal rhetoric, but no one had any doubt where his political loyalties resided.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh- absolutely (none / 0)

Exactly.  Which is something I find so frustrating in much of what has been said about Obama.  I have no doubts about where his political loyalties reside.  He doesn't feel the Iraq War vote should be a litmus test for the Presidency but I do.  I think is was a litmus test of true liberalism.  The man has lived his entire life on a singular path embracing liberal idealism: community organizer, civil rights lawyer, constitutional law professor, State Senator working on health care, and the rights of those coming into contact with the police and justice systems, US Senator working on Ethics. I have no doubts, none, about the card he carries and I don't need him to say Democrat over and over again to convince me.


by Piuma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trust is an issue (none / 0)

I don't really trust him to govern progressively.

That is why I am for Edwards, but force me to choose between Clinton and Obama.  I know from Clinton's experience and record that she won't govern progressively.  Granted it will be better by far than anyone of the GOP side, and I will got out and work for her election (worked on her 2000 senate campaign, although on the WFP line).  At least with Obama I can still hope, might be naive, I'll admit.  


by labor nrrd on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:36:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trust is an issue (none / 0)

What makes you think Edwards will when he was so far from that as a US Senator.  He co-sponsored the War.  Mistake or no mistake, that was a support for pre-emption which went against the history of this country.  That can't be explained away by it was a mistake.


by Piuma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:38:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trust is an issue (none / 0)

Those are good points.  

1) Can't source read these years ago, so take with grain of salt, but I remember reading an argument back in college that candidates tend to govern the way they campaign.  Edwards is running a progressive, populist campaign.  Clinton is running on experience, which means also running on the 90's Clinton presidency, which as a progressive populist, I hated.

2) In all honesty, Iraq is important, but the labor movement and economic inequality are my top issues.  I am with Edwards the most on those issues.

Iraq was a mistake, if that vote is your litmus test, I have no problem with that.  To me the destruction of the labor movement is critical to the destruction of the middle class and the democrats are a progressive powerful party.  I think we need that built back as the #1 priority.  


by labor nrrd on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:50:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both wrong (none / 0)

Or maybe conservative hate the Clintons and are all to willing to have the democratic nominee be someone who willingly embraces conservative talking points in a way that says "The Republican Revolution of the last 30 years is right and progressivism is wrong."


by world dictator on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:48:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both wrong (none / 0)

30 years?

The GOP picked up 2-3 senate seats and about a dozen house seats in the '78 mid-terms, but were still hopelessly in the minority.... I think the Dems still had a close to (if not?) super-majority in the Senate even after the losses - they certainly weren't more than a vote or 2 from it.

I'd stay away from sweeping generalizations without a better grasp on the facts.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both wrong (none / 0)

It's basically 30 years.  You are really objecting that he said 30 instead of 28?

I disagree with a lot that WD says, but that's nuts.


by labor nrrd on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both wrong (none / 0)

They didn't win a majority in 1980, either... just defeated a sitting President in an election where the Dem incumbent had the worst breaks in the world working against him.

We didn't get a GOP speaker of the house until 1994.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both wrong (none / 0)

I don't think you can win this argument other than on the technical point that 28 is not quite 30.  The Republicans picked up 12 Senate seats in 1980!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both wrong (none / 0)

They didn't seem to like it when Bill Clinton did that in the 90's.  Rolling back the new deal and declaring the era of big govt over didn't seem to win him many friends.


by labor nrrd on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:31:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

David Brooks (2.00 / 1)

yeah, yeah -- citing David Brooks automatically makes my point not worth considering... so be it -

But I think Brooks summed it up very well when he said that it's not that conservatives think he's a closet conservative, or even closet moderate -- they think the respects them and their viewpoints, even if he disagrees nearly up and down the line.

There's something to be said for that.

Beyond a few quips here and there ("...why should anyone listen to Cheney at this point...") -- Obama is simply not a tosser of red meat.

Hell - it's that absence of fire-breathing rhetoric that made it so hard for me to get behind him.  The only reason I'm here on MyDD and politically active is BECAUSE I bought hook, line, and sinker into the Deaniac outrage of 2003/2004 - and that outrage sure hasn't abated much.

Ultimately, it's about trust with Obama.  Either you trust him - or you don't.   I do.

He's not looking to beat the Limbaughs of the world - he's looking to render them irrelevant.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The operative phase is (2.00 / 1)

False dichotomy - The power brokers - the DLC,RNC and others want you all to think that the "other side" is evil.  
Many rank and file conservatives agree with rank and file progressives on many issues.  
Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:09:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (none / 0)

I don't particularly care for this endorsement for the same reason -- but I agree with the overall sentiment.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one that remembers we weren't always playing by post-1994 rules.  That's not to say there wasn't nastiness before then, and I'm no dummy -- I'm well aware of the BS people like Lee Atwater was pulling while Karl Rove was still plying his postcard game and breaking into his own offices -- but once upon a time, that crap was taking place around the edges, not on the main stage.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:22:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Two things strike me about this endorsement.

First, it has me thinking again about a question I don't have an answer for.   Why do Republicans like Barack Obama so much?  

I don't buy that a party that has embraced George Bush (he still has decent numbers among Repubs) and Tom Delay, not to mention all their heros on talk radio and cable, is open to his bi-partisan message.

Race, you would think, would be a factor.  Republicans haven't exactly embraced people of color.  They have no African members in the House or Senate.  So why would they suddently embrace a black Democrat of all people?   They barely embraced Lynn Swann or Ken Blackwell.

Do they like Obama because they think Barack is soft?  That they can easily beat him in the general?  Or do they think that the Democrats will win the White House easily and but that they will get the most concessions out of Obama down the road?

Secondly, I think this negative endorsement, along with the Las Vegas Sun's editorializing a Clinton victory in last nights debate (and basically darn near endorsing her while questioning some of Barack's answers), means that
Clinton might have some 'mo going into Saturday.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:35:44 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Republicans only like or say they like Obama now because they see him as a tool to take out Hillary. If he does that then they immediately turn their guns on him. The ones here believe he is the easiest to defeat because they can play to their lowest common denominator politics of black vs. white and that's always been a win for them.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have to agree (none / 0)


by dpANDREWS on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Because he is Black? (none / 0)

It sounds a lot like you are both saying that we should not support Senator Obama for President, because he is Black and he can't beat a Republican White Dude?
Sorry, I won't subscribe to that kind of thinking. Every racist may be a Republican, but not every Republican is a racist. The Republicans, Conservatives, and centrists are a lot more color blind than you think, or give them credit for.
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

By feeding (none / 0)

the illusion of a schism in the voters - you are feeding the power elite.  
The real issue in this campaign is lobbyists and special interest money.
By not addressing this issue Clinton has sold us out.
Edwards and Obama have made it themes to their campaigns
Notice how the MSM has ignored it.  
When Edwards brought it up last night their was no follow up and Clinton ignored it.
Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Whether it is because they regard Obama as the "lesser evil" or the lesser foe, Republicans across the board seem to be endorsing the Illinois Senator. At the ballot box as well as in the media.

Like everything in the race, this will be interpreted in different ways depending on existing bias. Supporters of Obama will point to it as a bipartisan asset in the G.E. Non supporters will point to it as letting the enemy choose their opponent. Probably some degree of truth in both perspectives.


by robert ethan on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:39:22 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Every election we obsess about who the GOP or Rove is afraid to face.  Are their pronouncements about this candidate some form of trickery.  Are they saying that are eager to face Dean, Edwards (both were talked about in 2004) because they really were eager or because they were trying to psych out democrats.

I say who cares.  Number one, we give them too much credit to know these things.  I remember that Gore talked about the 1980 election, saying that he hoped Reagan would get the nomination because he was so crazy he would get killed.  After election night, he says he stays out of other parties nominations.

You can make arguments about how Obama presents things and is there too much "trust me."  But let's not give the right wing talking heads too much credence on way or the other.


by labor nrrd on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Sounds like a vile paper.  Hard to see how its endorsement moves any democrats one way or another.  


by HSTruman on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:42:25 PM EST

Actually Todd (none / 0)

It was on BarackObama.com, it got replaced by the endorsements from Jack Carter et al.....


by rapcetera on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:44:56 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 1)

I think the endorsement itself is not as damaging as the Las Vegas Sun's reaction, the  mocking of it, and the perhaps resulting Clinton endorsement in another editorial:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jan 16/clinton-clear-winner

I would imagine the Las Vegas Sun  is probably the favored newspaper for Democratic political activists, which, after all, are the most likely caucus goers on Saturday.  The stinging bash and mock of the LV Journal endorsement, coupled with their own Clinton endorsement may make a deciding difference (after all, it may only take a couple of points swing for a win.)  


by georgep on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:18:52 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement From Barack Obama (none / 0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaoYD7iZG 9w


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:19:48 PM EST

Ugh! (2.00 / 1)

Now the Reagan worshipping is coming from Obama, too.  Don't we get enough of that from the GOP.

And he's also completely wrong as a factual matter, although he's right so far as the media narrative goes.  As Jane Hamsher says

No, Ronald Reagan didn't appeal to people's optimism, he appealed to their petty, small minded bigotry  and selfishness.  Jimmy Carter told people to tighten their energy belts and act for the good of the country; Ronald Reagan told them they could guzzle gas with impunity and do whatever the hell they wanted.  He kicked off his 1980 campaign talking about "state's rights" in Philadelphia, Mississippi -- the site of the murder of three civil rights workers in 1964's Freedom Summer.  He thus put up a welcome sign for "Reagan Democrats," peeling off white voters who were unhappy with the multi-ethnic coalition within the Democratic Party.

Sometimes I feel like Obama and many of his supporters don't know anything about the political history of the last 30 years.  


by BDB on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do wonder (2.00 / 1)

how these comments will play in the African-American community.  Reagan won, in part, by demonizing "welfare queens" and playing on white racism.  He was not a good president for the African-American community.  And I doubt they see him as some sort of optimist or inspirational figure.  They seem much more likely to see through the media crap and see Reagan for what he truly was.  


by BDB on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:36:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

With all due respect to Jane (none / 0)

She's hardly a non-partisan observer.

Growing up alongside and among a lot of Reagan Democrats -- I always take exception to people trying to paint the buyers of the Reagan myth (and yes, it was a myth) as closet racists.

My parents most certainly are not and were not racists -- closet or otherwise.

Neither Jane Hamsher (nor Eric Alterman nor Eleanor Clift nor whomever) has any sort of monopoly as the grand high poobah truth teller of the 80s.

You know what I remember about Reagan?  I remember "Where we're going, we don't need roads"... I remember "Morning in America".... I also remember crying myself to sleep after Grenada -- certain we'd be facing global thermonuclear war any day.

It's blind partisan hindsight to think the whole Reagan phenomenon was all racial code and whispers.

I have no love for Reagan - he was a shitty president responsible for one hell of a lot of the trouble we face today both domestically and abroad - but the people that cling to this mythology about Reagan as Hamsher lays it out are the same people that said after Nixon in 72 -- "How did he win?  I don't know anyone that voted for him!"

I mean - I'm a partisan Democrat and proud liberal, too -- but that doesn't mean I check my independent thoughts at the door.


by zonk on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 03:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I Don't Think It Was All (none / 0)

Race with Reagan. Certainly, there were other reasons why people bought into the Reagan myth.  It's just so depressing to see a leading Democrat buying into that myth.


by BDB on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement From Barack Obama (none / 0)

In addition to signing the praises of Ronald Reagan, Obama also says in the full interview that he is a "fiscal conservative" and that Democrats in Congress are "too ideological" in their agenda.


by hwc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Now Obama wants to be Reagan. Wonderful.


by StrongDem08 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:00:53 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

The politics here are pretty simple. The RJ Edit page board is headed by two morons who are hard-right conservative and dumber than Rush Limbaugh but think they are Thomas Jefferson, and they hate Hillary Clinton as a person and fear John Edwards' message.

It is good for Obama in the sense that any publicity is good. But if, as I continue to suspect, the bulk of the undecided are democratic activists, its not going to help and could hurt him a bit.

But with respect to far more important question, which is not how will undecideds break but who will show up, its largely irrelevant.

The Sun endorsement of Clinton that will come tomorrow is more likely to have an impact (obviously favorable) on undecided Democrats, but again I don't think there are many undecideds who are actually going to go. There are, however, lots of Clinton-leaning or firm Clinton who are, to my mind, not going to be there. An endorsement won't help them.

The person this all hurts the most of course is Edwards. With so precious little coverage and facing an onslaught of paid media and mail, and without the sort of institutional machines that are mobilizing for Clinton and Obama, any coverage that leaves him out makes it that much harder to turn out his supporters.

And the necessary disclaimer: Steelworkers, Carpentars, Comm Workers and Edwards staff and supporters, continue to fight as hard as we can and the inspiration of their effort make me proud and honored to be a part of this campaign. But we are up against two behemoths on Saturday.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:07:12 PM EST

Why Do You Think the Clinton Supporters Won't Show (none / 0)

I'm not arguing with you, you're on the ground and are probably right, I'm just curious as to why you think a lot of her folks won't be going.  Are they just from demos less likely to caucus?  Does she have a weaker GOTV effort?  Are her supporters less enthused?

Again, I'm just curious.  Nevada seems like this incredibly blank slate right now and I'm trying to fill in some of the picture (your diaries have been very helpful, thank you for posting them).


by BDB on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Do You Think the Clinton Supporters Won't (none / 0)

Based on my canvassing. So many people don't understand the basics of when, where, how. And so many Clinton supporters on the doorstep either didn't know or were uninterested in going. Not to say they won't show but its going to take more field presence than I've seen from Clinton to get them out.

I could be totally wrong. Its a blank slate to me too.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:16:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How Depressing (none / 0)

I don't mean that the Clinton supporters, in particular aren't going, I mean that Nevada was moved up in the order and so few people in the state seem to know how to participate or are otherwise confused.

Regardless of who wins, I've come out of this thinking that Nevada is one screwed up state, politically speaking, and that while I like having a more diverse, Western state moved up in order, I wish they'd picked one that had its act together.


by BDB on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 07:09:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is there anything you wish the campaign (none / 0)

was doing that they aren't to help turn out the vote?  Is it just a matter of David vs Goliath, or do you think a tactical mistake was made?


John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance
by katerina on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is there anything you wish the campaign (none / 0)

Sure, I wish Edwards was blanketing the airwaves and dropping two pieces of mail a day, like the other campaigns. David vs Goliath is about half right. Really its David vs Goliath vs Gargantuan (to mix my biblical and profane references).


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 06:40:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is there anything you wish the campaign (none / 0)

Really its David vs Goliath vs Gargantuan

LOL!

Thank you and thanks to all the volunteers that are working so hard for JRE in Nevada.  


John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance
by katerina on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 12:17:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Given Obama's support from the key Bush supporters (Energy and Pharmaceutical), this endorsement actually makes a lot of sense.

If you want the GOP to continue in the White House, nominate Obama: you can choose betwen two GOP candidates in the fall.


by moi moi on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 04:41:10 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

You seem to miss the fact that Republicans and Independents can vote in Nevada.

I say that's the reason this endorsement is significant. The Obama campaign has made outreach to independents and Republicans a priority. It's a strategy I suggest the Clintons incorporate.

I find it funny how Clinton supporters, and I count most bloggers on this site as such, always want to diminish anything that makes Obama look better than Clinton.

Sad and pathetic, really. It makes you guys look pretty insecure. Mark Penn is really a smart, smart guy [note sarcasm]. After Nevada and South Carolina, he will have won only ONE contested primary (by 2%) and have his candidate get destroyed among independents in every single one, including when she ran against no one in Michigan and still lost the independent vote by nearly 20%.

Even if she wins it'll probably be a pyrrhic victory, because of all the damage Mark Penn and the Clinton's have done to Hillary's chances with independents. This strategy being another shining example of Penn's genius.

Have at it.


by JackBourassa on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:19:18 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (none / 0)

Yes, his outreach to Republicans has won him an endorsement that reads as follows:

Is Barack Obama, then, the ideal Democratic candidate for president? Hardly. His policy recommendations -- when he can be convinced to get any more specific than "I represent change" -- are the opposite of "change." They're old-line, welfare-state solutions that haven't spent enough time in the microwave to appear even superficially appetizing.

Sen. Obama is a relatively young man with relatively little of the kind of real-world experience that prepares a candidate to stand firm against urgent advice to, say, bomb some remote population of defenseless civilians to "send a message," or plunge the economy into a dark night of unforeseen consequences by crippling the free market in the name of "fighting greed."

But Barack Obama is, at least, likeable. He is a good enough orator that there is no need to cringe when he dares to speak off the cuff. He is a good politician, in the non-insulting sense that he knows how to speak to individual Americans and give them the feeling he cares about their concerns.

As Nevada Democrats head to their caucuses Saturday, they might ask themselves whether they really want to spend two months later this year watching a re-run of the horror movie "It Came From Little Rock," with the sound turned up much too loud -- or if they'd rather make it a real contest this fall.

If they prefer the latter, they're better off backing Barack Obama on Saturday.

Republicans like him because he's not Hillary.  Truly, this is confirmation of his brilliant strategy.  I wonder if he also hopes to win their votes in the general election by pointing out that he is not Hillary.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

An awful lot of vitrolic sentiments. (none / 0)

I am very disheartened to hear all the scorn and pessimism that many of you are directing at Senator Obama.
It is as if you won't vote for him if he beats out Hillary Clinton (or Edwards).
True I am a Obama man, because he inspires me, but I love Clinton and Edwards as well, and I will fully support either of them with all the passion I can muster, if either of them beats Obama for the nomination.
In the possibility that Obama might win the nomination, which is a very good one, you all should rethink your vitriolic sentiments towards him.
I don't care who the 44th president is, as long as it is a Democrat.
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:25:38 PM EST

Re: An Endorsement Barack Obama May Not Want (2.00 / 1)

Fetboy,

This is a Clinton site.

I was initially for Obama with Hillary a close second. But for some strange, unknown reason the Clinton's idiot savants believe that they need to destroy Obama which does not speak well of their faith in Hillary and her abilities. The truth is they, and Mark Penn, is the reason this race is even close. None of this was even necessary. They could have won with class. Hillary could have used this race as a means to demonstrate her ability to bring disperate people together.

Instead the country sees her as divisive and manipulative. Election Hillary was always going to be a tough sell. But in my opinion, her campaign has probably made that impossible.

Obviously Clinton's strategy is not a very good one, since a good strategy is one that looks ahead.

These people seem quite content in winning this battle but then losing the war --- as in the general election. They do this with their complete disregard of independent voters, which becomes more obvious they will lose in the general as time goes on.

Remember that swarmy idiot Tom Delay? Remember his talk about a "majority of a majority" supporting him? Look how well that worked out for him.

Yet, Clinton's strategist Mark Penn seems quite fine with incorporating a similar strategy with his candidate. The only caveat being that Hillary wants to win the majority of a MINORITY and consign our party to electoral oblivion.

Let's hope that

This might come as a surprise, since all my feelings that do not correspond to the Hillary campaign's apparent motto of 'submit or perish,' but I have always felt that Hillary would make the best President, while Obama's message was superior and would win us the election.

Instead of adopting Obama's message, and thus becoming the best of both worlds; the Clintons, as is their custom, have decided to destroy it. They attack all that does not fit into their narrow worldview.

The couple from Hope have obviously turned against it. They mock the very things people like me believe in. This is why many people, like myself, have grown so disamoured with them. This is why independents will never support her. She has become the epitome of everything they dislike in politics.

The Clinton supporters have devolved into believing that, despite holding a significant double-digit lead among his party-base (one larger than Hillary currently enjoys among her own), John McCain will not be the Republican nominee. Because they know what everyone knows: McCain's popularity with independents, and her seeming unpopularity, will deny her the White House.

This is what I find so disconcerting. This is what I blame on Mark Penn. He has narrowed his focus to such a degree on Obama, and destroying him personally, that they can no longer see the forest from the trees. He can't see how he is strangulating his candidate's chances in the general election by his actions and decisions.

I, for the life of me, don't know why the Clintons keep this idiot around.


by JackBourassa on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:58:44 PM EST


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