MyDD :: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC Debate

NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC Debate

by Todd Beeton, Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:08:37 PM EST

Dennis Kucinich was originally invited to participate in tomorrow's MSNBC Las Vegas debate but then Iowa and New Hampshire voted, giving him 0% and 1% of the vote, respectively, so MSNBC rescinded the invitation. Kucinich then proceeded to slap MSNBC with a lawsuit demanding that he be allowed to participate, citing his eligibility for matching funds, his strong stances on the war and universal healthcare as well as his solid performance in several online polls as evidence that he is indeed a serious candidate and should be allowed to participate in Tuesday's debate.

Whaddyaknow, he won.

A judge in Nevada has just ordered MSNBC to include Rep. Dennis Kucinich in Tuesday's Democratic Party presidential debate in Las Vegas or he will cancel the forum.

Senior Clark County District Court Judge Charles Thompson vowed to issue an injunction halting the nationally televised debate if MSNBC failed to comply. Kucinich had filed a lawsuit seeking to be included just this morning.

The judge ruled it was a matter of fairness and Nevada voters would benefit from hearing from more than just Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Barack Obama.

I can only assume MSNBC will comply.

Update [2008-1-15 0:6:26 by Todd Beeton]:Or not. NBC is appealing to the Nevada Supreme Court.

Tags: 2008 presidential election, democratic nomination, dennis kucinich, msnbc debate (all tags)

Permalink :: 74 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (1.50 / 2)

I don't get how a judge has the power here over a media station; isn't it the Democratic Party's role to decide?

by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:10:31 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Apparently its MSNBC's joint. The DNC merely sanctions it. A friend of mine just suggested Kucinic should be the moderator which strikes me as a terrific idea.

by desmoulins on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Even if it is MSNBC, they're not cable, they're not bound by equal time laws, are they? I still don't see how the law gets involved.

Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?

by Nathan Empsall on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:19:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

they are cable (2.00 / 2)

MSNBC is a cable station and equal time laws died under the great, the fabulous, the superb, the mostest fantastico roooonald reagan!!!!

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:26:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they are cable (none / 0)

Equal time laws still apply to networks, right? I remember California stations couldn't play Schwarzenagger movies when he was running, and NBC pulled the Fred Thompson reruns of L&O.

Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?

by Nathan Empsall on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they are cable (none / 0)

Those aren't equal time laws... Equal time laws were gutted twenty years ago... The FEC has special rules about political candidates and free airtime... that's what came into play with the examples you mentioned...

by lordmikethegreat on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they are cable (none / 0)

Campaign law there. Not equal time. You can't, for example, stage a 3 hour debate in prime time for one candidate. As a lie and really an ad for them.

Likewise you can't start showing old movies involving somebody running for governor.

Such activities are governed by campaign law, not equal time law. You can however, stage a debate where all the candidates get equal time.

is confused now

by Tatarize on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they are cable (none / 0)

But Frederick of Hollywood's movies are still on. Red October was just on last night.

John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:01:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they are cable (none / 0)

My understandign is that MSBNC had written guidelines about who could participate and DK sued saying they ahd violated their own guidelines. Why thats a legal issue, I have no idea.

by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:32:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they are cable (none / 0)

They're not on the networks, are they? Just cable, I thought.

Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?

by Nathan Empsall on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

Good news for Obama, bad for Edwards. For whatever reason, Kucinic has generally used his time in the debates to go after Edwards.

For those interested, Kuninic has no offices, no paid staff and has not spent any time campaigning here in NV.

by desmoulins on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:10:48 PM EST

Edwards will need to draw distinctions (none / 0)

between himself and Obama in a good way, because Kucinich will try to contrast Edwards unfavorably to Obama.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards will need to draw distinctions (none / 0)

um, please elaborate. Does Dennis openly favor Obama for the nom?

McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.

by jgarcia on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards will need to draw distinctions (none / 0)

yes, he asked his supporters in Iowa to go to Obama

vote blue in 2008

by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:16:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

WOW (none / 0)

Kucinich is small in stature but packs a big punch. Go Kucinich!

by lonnette33 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:11:07 PM EST

Re: WOW (none / 0)

from the looks of how pretty his wife is, perhaps it's more than a "punch" he's packin'.

McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.

by jgarcia on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WOW (none / 0)

Yeah, it is great that Mrs. Kucinich will be in attendance at the debate, as her status as a Democrat is invaluable to the Democratic party. The more gorgeous intelligent women the Democrats have in the party the better.
Also I really want to hear more about the UFO that Kucinich saw. Personally I believe it was a sign from God that we must seriously overhaul or scrap NAFTA. Maybe Elizabeth Kucinich is God's messenger? But I agree with you that Elizabeth Kucinich is proof positive that Kucinich must have something very special going for him.
Maybe Kucinich is a gorgeous intelligent woman magnet? In which case he is invaluable to the Democratic party.
Either way Kucinich has to be at the debates, for the good of the party.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WOW (none / 0)

LOL

by lonnette33 on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Good to See this, I like the Kuce...just keep Gravel Out!

Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.

by CardBoard on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:14:25 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Who cares. Its Kucinich we are talking about.

Restore America's Strength.

by RJEvans on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:15:12 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

Takes time away from the other candidates, distracts most of the viewers who just want to see the big two or three.

Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?

by Nathan Empsall on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

big two or three? Come now, you are fairer than that. :)

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

I'll be fair. It distracts from the big two and the lesser of the three. Kucinich may have heart, but he has no chance in hell of being President in this lifetime.

Restore America's Strength.

by RJEvans on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

hm. Lesser? You are not sounding as fair as you usually do.

The only reason they are the "big two", as you state, is because the media has lofted them to those positions long before the first vote was cast.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

It was not meant to be fair. That's the problem with the internet. The tone of the writer is not portrayed well enough to be understood.

I never liked Edwards. I did not like him in 2004 and when Kerry chose him as his running mate, I was cursing everyone that mentioned the Democratic ticket. It was hardly meant to be fair.

Restore America's Strength.

by RJEvans on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Hm.

Actually I was in a rush when I wrote that. I thought I was responding to The Wayward one. :)

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

As far as Biden, Dodd, and Richardson went, yes, I hated seeing things limited. And I am more charitable to Kucinich than Gravel. But that's not what I'm talking about right now - I'm looking at voter perception (regardless of what caused it) and audience demands, and the audience GE plays to would prefer to focus on what some of them see as two and some of them as three.

Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?

by Nathan Empsall on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well... (2.00 / 1)

In Nevada it is definitely a 3 way race.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:24:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

According to the only recent poll (2.00 / 1)

Yes. Thanks for mentioning. Edwards could win NV.

by Coral on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 08:47:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

This is an absurdity but it won't be the first or the last of the campaign. If I were MSNBC, I'd appeal.

Kucinich has had his chances to demonstrate his appeal. It's negligible and he has no chance of winning the nomination. His standing in the polls is a fraction of the margin of error.

Feh.

by InigoMontoya on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:15:55 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

The legal theory is that NBC violated its duty under the Federal Communications Act to "operate in the public interest" by excluding an allegedly credible candidate.

The ruling seems fairly ridiculous but whatever, good for him.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:17:06 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

I thought Reagan repealed that regulation?

Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?

by Nathan Empsall on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

The Fairness Doctrine is no longer operative, but the general statutory requirement to operate in the public interest remains.

It seems an absurd decision to me as a legal proposition.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:29:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Agreed. What's next, John Cox?

Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?

by Nathan Empsall on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What a load (2.00 / 2)

How come I can't get up there and debate if Kucinich can? We each have a precisely equal chance of getting the nomination.

by Trickster on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:21:55 PM EST

Trickster, you don't watch Stephen Colbert much! (none / 0)

Mr. Colbert tried to get on the ballot so that he could attend the debates. He could not get on the ballot, which is why he is not attending the debates. I don't believe you were able to get on the ballot either.
BTW Trickster, isn't it great that the Democrat's eccentric characters, like Kucinich, are charming and delightful, where as the Republican's eccentric characters, like Allen Keyes, are disturbing, creepy, and annoying!
Not that Representative Kucinich is all that eccentric, but he is a character, with character.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:10:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, he's charming (none / 0)

No doubt. Nor is Allan Keyes any less scary. But I'd like to see the main folks get the spotlight and interact with each other. Kucinich is a distraction.

He's also a loose cannon whose remarks on another candidate could influence perceptions of the debates in pretty much a random fashion.

I'm much in favor of winnowing out the minor candidates from the debate stage as soon in the process as possible. Especially during the primary season, these binding decisions as to candidate selection get made all too quickly and haphazardly IMO.

by Trickster on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:47:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, he's charming (none / 0)

Any man who cuts off his daughter because she came out of the closet (Allen Keyes) is horrifying.
Hate to disagree with you, but I don't see Kucinich as in any way being a distraction, or in any way harmful to the front runners (Clinton, Edwards, or Obama) or to the Democratic party. He does take away air time from the front runners, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Kucinich allows the front runners to make it clear that they are not in favor of gay marriage (gay unions maybe), and he keeps "addressing NAFTA" on the table. He also says very clever things like "when I was a kid I was told if you dig a hole deep enough you can get to China... We're there."
Every party needs a spark, and Kucinich, who is a sitting representative from crucial Ohio and a Democratic party man to the core, is definitely a Democratic party spark. I say let him speak as much as reasonably possible. I see him as a gorgeous intelligent woman magnet, and a bit of good humor that makes the debates worth watching. People know Kucinich is not going to get nominated or elected, but they love watching him anyways, and the day he stops going to the debates is the day that a lot of people will stop watching the debates.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:11:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

impeach that judge (none / 0)

This is a horrible decision. It should be appealed and overthrown.

Msnbc has a first amendment right to produce whatever program they want with whatever people on it.

How this judge or anyone else can justify this constitutionally is, THEY CAN'T.

people's feelings and the publics' "right to know" aren't constitutional principles.

We have already truncated the 1st amendment with the McCain Feingold decision.

Democrats the 1st amendment says Govt. shall make no law that inhibits the free expression...

This is the government, making a law through a judge. It is wrong.

I disagree with Msnbc most of the time with respect to this campaign. But the answer is turn the channel or start my own.

What's next, force Hillary to go to the debate if she doesn't want to?

Force Barack to answer "what policies will you change"? the People have a right?

by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:27:19 PM EST

Re: impeach that judge (none / 0)

I think they might. Because no where on MSNBC tonight, between Matthews, to Tucker, to Keith, was Kucinich mentioned. Even when they had reporters from NV at the debate site, talking about the debate tomorrow, no one seemed to mention that Kucinich got a bone thrown to him.

by Big Haircut on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: impeach that judge (2.00 / 1)

"Msnbc has a first amendment right to produce whatever program they want with whatever people on it."

Um, no. That's not how the first am. works vis-a-vis this particular legal question.

McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.

by jgarcia on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: impeach that judge (none / 0)

If you were aware of the details, you wouldn't rush to judgment like that.

They committed to inviting the top four candidates. Once Richardson went out, they tried to change that after the fact. That goes against the rules they set up for the debate, under Kucinich certainly should be there.

by scaryice on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 06:21:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

idiot judge: can you force (1.00 / 1)

msnbc to ask kucinch questions? Can you force them to turn up his micropone too?

They should ignore him all night.

Every time he tries to but in, turn off his sound.

They should allot time based on poll numbers.

by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:28:43 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must (none / 0)

i read where msnbc was going to appeal.

by mecarr on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:40:44 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must (none / 0)

I haven't read that yet...can you provide the link for us all too tired to search for ourselves? lol

by Big Haircut on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must (2.00 / 2)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080115/ap_o n_el_pr/kucinich_debate_7;_ylt=Aktgkwqcz gBsy8DjD.ZRAfRh24cA

In the article, it says..
"We disagree with the judge's decision and are filing an appeal," said a statement provided by Jeremy Gaines, a vice president for MSNBC, sponsor of Tuesday night's debate. Gaines said the parent network would seek an immediate hearing before the Nevada Supreme Court."

by mecarr on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nv lawsuit (none / 0)

Does this suggest anything about the recent NV lawsuit?

IANAL so I have no idea

by kristoph on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:57:00 PM EST

This is Kucinich publicity stunt. (1.00 / 1)

The judge is obviously a fool for going along with it. NBC should appeal and ignore it.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:07:41 PM EST

Thank Goodness (2.00 / 1)

Whatever would the Democratic party do if the guy who is polling less than "Write In" in Michigan where he is one of only two candidates on the ballot were not allowed in the debates?

Seriously, I liked that the early debates were inclusive so that everyone had a chance to be heard from and push their points. But we're getting down to selecting the nominee and it's not going to be Kucinich.

Personally, at this point, I'd like to hear more from those who have a shot in hell of winning. Dennis does not. Although bonus points to the first candidate who mentions that he's apparently the only one on stage who does not provide health insurance for his paid staff.

by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:10:21 PM EST

Re: Thank Goodness (none / 0)

This is right on the money.

While it diminished the quality of the early debates in certain way, I always felt that the early debates should be more inclusive, then as the process moved forward you could raise the barriers to entry to allow a more concentrated debate between the serious candidates. It's by far the best balance of the competing concerns I've seen.

by tilthouse on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What difference does it make? (none / 0)

Now it will just be five guys ganging up to attack the female candidate instead of four.

I've been using the 30 second skip button on the DVR on Kucinich and Richardson for months -- although it usually takes four or five stabs at the button to zip through one of Richardson's rambling, incoherent answers.

by hwc on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:28:44 PM EST

Re: What difference does it make? (none / 0)

OMG, i totally agree with that. Richardson, I think contrary to conventional wisdom dragged the whole party and the process down with his participation. He RUINED what essentially could have been several good debates.

The man got less than five percent at his peak (NH), yet ate up tons and tons of time in the debates. I hated hearing his answers to ANYTHING.

I do not want to hear Richardson muse or give his opinion on anything at all. It was very annoying.

McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.

by jgarcia on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What difference does it make? (none / 0)

You can be quite sure that no one be hitting Clinton too hard (except may be Kucinich).

If anything, if Edwards goes after Clinton, Obama will probably defend her.

Obama has certainly learned the lessons of NH and he won't repeat the mistake he made in the last debate.

by kristoph on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What difference does it make? (none / 0)

Five? Uh, make that three instead of two. I'd actually like Kucinich in the debates.

by Coral on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 08:58:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

I don't see how anyone can argue with this decision. It is not about viability it is about rules. There's no better proof this has nothing to do with viability than the fact that MSNBC would let Richardson in the debate. Even he agrees he's not viable, yet he would be allowed in if he hadn't dropped out because the rules were the top 4 get in. Richardson is out, Kucinich is now the de facto #4, of course he should be allowed in.

The failure here is with Howard Dean and the National Party. They've made a mess of Michigan and Florida and made a mess of the debates. If they want to run the debates as some sort of elimination tournament then it's only fair they articulate that at the start and not let the media be their courier. Personally, I'd like to see a one on one Clinton v. Obama debate, but I understand that's not exactly democratic. Once you move away from whoever is on the ballot gets to debate, you start interjecting personal opinions into the process. Is that the Progressive way? I hope not.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:24:18 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Piuma, which rules are you referring to? Is there a DNC rule that says all candidates must be included in each debate? I'm not sure what you mean.

"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin

by Denny Crane on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

The rules which MSNBC laid out for this debate weeks ago was the top 4 would get in. Once Richardson dropped out, they changed it to the top 3 only thereby eliminating Kucinich.

Similarly, ABC laid out rules for the NH debate that the top 4 from Iowa would get in plus anyone else who polled above 5% in NH or Nationally. That played into Biden and Dodd's decision to drop out when they did since they were ineligible for the debate. I think that's wrong on principle and especially wrong when you consider Biden and Dodd probably stood a greater chance than Richardson in NH.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:54:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for clarifying.

"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin

by Denny Crane on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

I'm curious. Your premise appears to be that once MSNBC wrote some rules about who could appear in a debate (rules that it had no obligation to write at all), it is "constitutionally" bound to keep to those rules.

Test that premise. If ABC had decided after Iowa that the public would be better served by keeping Biden and Dodd in even though its rules excluded them, would Clinton or Obama have a valid legal claim to enforce the rule to exclude them? If not, then I don't see why MSNBC can be forced to stick to its rules.

by anoregonreader on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (none / 0)

the DNC looks like they can't control the inmates of the asylum. Michigan and all the crossover to vote for Romney crap makes the dems look shifty and manipulative, and the idea that Florida dems will not be seated at the convention, and therefore the dems won't campaign in a state they desperately need in November is ludicrous.

Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!

by brooklyngreenie on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:02:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

I argue with the decision because it seems legally incorrect to me, verging on the bizarre. I suppose if NBC follows through with their appeal it will tell us something.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:15:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

Kucinich is a distraction; he won't leave until after Feb 5.

He knows it and so do we. I want to see Obama, Clinton and Edwards square off; that should be more interesting.

by American1989 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:32:43 PM EST

Dennis Kucinich is not a distraction (none / 0)

Elizabeth Kucinich, on the other hand...

Vote Who Sane '08!

by nafamabo on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Elizabeth Kucinich is not a distraction! (none / 0)

Elizabeth Kucinich is not a distraction any more than the angel on top of the Christmas tree is a distract for the Christmas tree. The more gorgeous intelligent women we have have attracted to the Democratic party, the better the Democratic will be.
Anyone who attempts to discourage Elizabeth Kucinich from being in the audience at Democratic debates is a fool.
I hope Elizabeth Kucinich is at every Democratic party function because her presence at the debates does for the Democratic party what the angel on top of the Christmas tree does for the Christmas tree.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:22:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Is this a Primary for President or a TV show? I want to see just Obama and Edwards actually. Does it really matter what I want to see?

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

The debate is a TV show, and a lot of people will watch the debate for its entertainment value. And Representative Kucinich is entertaining in a very good way. People aren't going to boycot the debate just because the charming, pro-union, pro-gay marriage, anti-deficit, anti-Iraq war Kucinich is at the debate. But a lot of people will be turned off if Kucinich is not there.
Kucinich is good for the Democratic party; he is a sitting representative of crucial Ohio, he is a Democratic party man to the core, and I have yet to hear him say anything negative about the three front runner candidates.
Kucinich paid his dues, got on the ballot, and is still in the race (because he believes strongly in his principles), so he deserves to be at the debate.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:30:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good news for 3rd parties (none / 0)

This should be good news for Green & Libertarian candidates in the general, who will have one more precedent to site in their legal battles to get into the exclusive and highly partisan general election debates.

Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!

by brooklyngreenie on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:58:52 PM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

In their appeal did they ask for a stay of the lower courts decision!?

If they didnt, then he'll be in the debate, but they can still litigate it for the future, but since its in Nevada State court, it will only apply in Nevada.

vote blue in 2008

by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:16:18 AM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

Two fun facts to keep in mind.

1. The NV supreme court always rules in favor of what best suits the interests of the gaming corps and the political establishment it supports. In this case, thats Clinton. If they think it'll help Clinton, they'll rule for DK.

2. In one of teh Gubernatorial debates in 06, a 3rd-party candidate from the Independent American party literally bum-rushed the stage and harrassed the dean of the UNLV Law school who was moderating. That guy was a short, muscled, bald guy who looks a bit like the actor from The Shield. For a second, the entire state thought the law school dean was going to lay out the Independent American party candidate for Governor.

So who do you like if its DK vs. Brian Williams?

by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:36:33 AM EST

Re: NV Judge: (2.00 / 1)

Ridicuous- he should not be a part of it. He's like the party guest who won't leave.

by reasonwarrior on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:43:57 AM EST

NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC Debate (none / 0)

There are some semi-standard rules that have evolved and maybe they should be more standardized. At this point, something like placing in top three in one of the last two primaries or registering 10 percent or more in a reputable poll.

By any reasonable standard, Kucinich should no longer be in the debates.

by InigoMontoya on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:44:21 AM EST

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (2.00 / 1)

There are rules that have been in place for a while. They committed to inviting the top four but once Richardson went out they tried to get around that. Hence the current lawsuit which Kucinich should certainly win.

95% of people are yet to vote, why does everyone want to push out the little guys? That goes for the GOP too. Even if the chances of winning are small, it's good to have a variety of opinions and positions. Only when someone cannot mathematically win the nomination should they be excluded.

by scaryice on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 06:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV Judge: Kucinich Must Be Allowed In MSNBC De (none / 0)

I respectfully disagree.

I want to hear...I want the country to hear...from those who have a shot at getting the nomination. I'm not stingy...10-15 percent support in the polls or a third-place finish in one of the most recent primaries does it for me.

This isn't an academic debating society. It's a serious process about choosing someone to lead a great nation badly in need of some leadership.

Sucks to be winnowed out but thems the breaks.

It doesn't help Kucinich that even many who agree with him ideologically find him to be an annoying little weasel. Myself, I find myself reaching for a tranquilizer dart gun whenever I hear him speaking...the only other candidate who affects me that way is Ron Paul.

by InigoMontoya on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 12:27:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Greenwald (none / 0)

has an excellent explanation of the legal issue (contract law) involved and right-wing reaction to it. here

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2 008/01/15/kucinich/index.html

by Coral on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 09:31:19 AM EST

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