MyDD :: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy To Rally Workers

Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy To Rally Workers

by Todd Beeton, Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:14:16 PM EST

Assuming the Nevada State Education Association's lawsuit against the Nevada Democratic Party to close down the 9 at-large caucus precincts on Saturday is an attempt to hurt Barack Obama and help Hillary Clinton, one has to wonder if it just might backfire. Barack Obama himself has started using it as a rallying cry with members of the Culinary Workers union, for whom the precinct locations were designed to make caucusing easier.

ABC's Political Radar covers a rally with the culinary workers yesterday:

"I noticed that ever since I got the support of local 226 that the lawyers that decided to get involved, huh?," Obama told the crowd of union members, "You know you notice that the rules were okay as long as you did what they wanted you to do." [...]

"They all agreed to how this was going to work, so the notion now that six days before the caucus that they are gonna to try to disenfranchise the hard working folks on the strip, culinary workers, but also folks who are working at the McDonald's on the strip," Obama said, "You don't serve democracy by trying to keep people out. You're supposed to try to bring them in and encourage everybody to get involved."

Obama concluded by shouting "Are we gonna let a bunch of lawyers try to prevent us from bringing about change in America?"

I find it amusing that he's decided on lawyers as the villain of choice here, considering he himself is one (not that that's kept him from demonizing trial lawyers, of course) but the real power of Obama's seizing on this as a campaign issue with the workers becomes most clear in this line from the same rally, as reported by The Las Vegas Sun:

"As soon as you decided to support the outsider, the working people instead of the big shots, all the sudden they decided they wanted to change the rules."

Obama as the "outsider," champion of the little guy against the "big shots," a catch-all term to refer to any establishment force keeping the little guy down, no doubt a powerful message with the union rank and file.

Tags: 2008 presidential election, democratic nomination, nevada caucus, barack obama, hillary clinton, culinary workers union (all tags)

Permalink :: 78 Comments :: Post a Comment

Of course he was going to use it against her. (none / 0)

The fact she has nothing to do with it is irrelevant. But then lying and distortion is all part of the plan. He calls it the politics of hope.
At the end of the day it won't make much difference because she's got a megaphone too.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:23:37 PM EST

Re: Of course he was going to use it against her. (none / 0)

You should note that he is being careful not to explicitly accuse the Clinton campaign of being behind it.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:32:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh... (none / 0)

I don't see Obama mentioning Hillary at all. Why so defensive? Oh yeah because ...Political Punch

...the Nevada State Education Association teachers' union -- whose deputy executive director, Debbie Cahill, is a member of Clinton's Nevada Women's Leadership Council -- seeks to prevent those At-Large Districts from meeting in next Saturday's caucuses.

by JoeCoaster on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:32:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course he was going to use it against her. (none / 0)

They're deliberately using Karl Rove's methods to sell a sub par, deeply flawed candidate with no record.

They never mention substance, it's all about feeling, and image, and creating a balloon where Obama, and his handlers, determine the truth.

If you were to follow the early Bush trajectory, you would see the similarities.

I wonder if he'll end up like Bush, too.

by Marsha1 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 07:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large (none / 0)

Obama needs to be careful...there are many within that union who are very pissed off that the union endorsed him. He has the support of the union leadership...NOT the entire rank and file.

by americanincanada on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:25:56 PM EST

true, but this lawsuit (none / 0)

should have been filed months ago if it were not politically-motivated.

I am not surprised Obama is now using it as a rallying cry.

I hope it does not work. But the media seem determined never to report a negative word about Obama. Edwards and Clinton are going to have to do something in the debate tomorrow to change the dynamic. Otherwise this is Obama's to lose.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:29:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

his to lose!? (none / 0)

What are you talking about!? Hillary has the entire NV democratic political operation on her side. She will win (by hook or crook).

by JoeCoaster on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Media (none / 0)

I was hoping that one of the things we'd see come out of NH was a more careful look at Obama's record. Yes, I think that would help my candidate (Clinton), but I also thought it would make me happier about Obama if he ends up being the nominee. One of my concerns about him is whether he's ready for a national race. The few times I've seen reporters press him on issues (his present vote, the lobbyist thing), his answers were terrible. And I don't mean substantively, I mean that he looked unprepared.

If he got the full media treatment and won, then I'd feel a lot more confident about him in the general. Doesn't look like it's going to happen though. I think that's what the Clintons figured out in NH - they are going to have to be the ones to bring up his record, like she did in the debate. Nobody else is going to.

by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large (none / 0)

Why does that mean he has to be careful exactly?

He is talking to these people about what is going on and trying to PERSUADE those who aren't with him that they should be.

Careful is why he didn't win New Hampshire- just as careful is why Hillary looked weak coming out of Iowa. The time for careful is over people.

Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America

by JDF on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large (none / 0)

He needs to be careful because he is assuming that the union rank and file are with him...they are not. There have been many stories about this already. The rank and file are downright angry that the union leadership endorsed Obama without consulting the membership. The more he brings attention to it, the endorsement they are all pissed about, the more pissed they may get.

by americanincanada on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large (none / 0)

And careful isn't why he lost NH...arrogance is.

by americanincanada on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:43:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Politics of Hope (and Fear) (none / 0)

Obama telling GOP to register Dem just for one day to caucus against HRC. What a shame. And these people say they are Dems. I wish you al would be as vigorous in reporting this news...

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/ob ama_precinct_captains_mailer_urges_repub licans_to_switch_parties_and_caucus_agai nst_hillary.php

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:26:42 PM EST

they used this tactic (none / 0)

to great effect in Iowa.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:29:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Did they really? It's one thing to appeal to non-Democrats as part of a "big tent" unity message... but to appeal specifically to Hillary-haters among the R's and Indys, that strikes me as the kind of tactic that carries a backlash. Did they really go so far as to spell it out in Iowa?

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:34:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Well, they are doing it in NV. So birds of a feather...

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know about leaflets (none / 0)

but I do know that at least some Obama volunteers used this as a talking point with non-Democrats--if you don't want Hillary to get the nomination, come register as a Democrat and caucus for Obama.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't know about leaflets (none / 0)

I guess I'm not all that surprised, and volunteers will do what they do. But it's pretty important not to leave any fingerprints on that sort of approach.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:46:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't know about leaflets (none / 0)

In all fairness, some of that comes about naturally. I've been doing a little phonebanking for Obama this week, and most of the numbers I've been assigned are for Republicans and Independents. I've done this before in Iowa and New Hampshire, but I've been struck by the strong sentiments against Clinton I've been hearing in Nevada. It doesn't take any prompting. A number of Republicans are really undecided about their candidates, are intrigued by Obama even if not supporting him, and absolutely hate Clinton. Hate her. Especially women.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well, that's true (none / 0)

The Republicans I know who caucused for Obama really hate Hillary. They probably didn't need any Obama volunteer to let them know that they could stick it to Hillary by caucusing for Obama.

It helps Obama that the GOP field is so pathetic. If these Obama Republicans had anyone in their party to get excited about, they wouldn't have caucused on the Democratic side.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

Sure, but that is part of why we have a moment here where if we reach out we can bring in a lot of Republicans in the General and by doing so shift their Party toward a more moderate, less partisan stance, which will help us make the changes we need to make in the next 4 years. It's part of why at this moment in time, Obama's campaign makes more sense than a different approach.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

Why would Republicans who caucused with the Democrats solely to oppose Hillary be inclined to vote for Obama in the general election?

That's like saying all the Kossacks who are voting for Romney in the Michigan primary would be likely to vote for him in the general if he wins the nomination. Obviously, there is 0% chance of that.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

Try to follow the thread of the conversation instead of just trying to make a point. My reply to her was about the weak Republican field, not about people hating Hillary. And I would add, this moment in time thing is also about many Republicans being sick of this heated partisan dialog as well. That's part of why they don't like Clinton.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

Man you Obama people are up in the clouds. unreal.

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

Spoken like someone who hasn't been on the streets. My feet are planted firmly on my desk, the phone to my ear, and that's the experience I've had. Personally I've spoken to 3 Nevada Republicans in 4 hours of calling who are definitely going to caucus for Obama, and 3 others who won't caucus but would consider voting for him in the General Election, if he gets the nod.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

OK, please explain why it is helpful for our party to invite republicans to caucus who would simply change registration for ONE day to vote against HRC. your only explanation can be a political response: that it helps your candidate.

That is an awful tactic, enabling GOP to play mischief in our primary. You Obama people are in the clouds for rationalizing otherwise.

Puhleaze . The reason the GOP wants Obama is that they know they would make lunchmeat out of him. If they were so ready for him, Polls should show him with 60 and 70% GE numbers. Anybody who is virulent to switch parties for one day just to vote against HRC, 'aint voting for the Dem nominee in the general.

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

I never said they were caucusing because they hate Clinton. They are doing it because they like Barack. There's no ulterior motive that might prohibit them from voting for him in the General. In fact the people who have expressed the strongest sentiment against her were not the 3 who are voting in the Dem caucus.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:32:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

Your argument is FALSE. If they like Barack so much that they would switch party affiliations, why would the flyer invite them to switch party regisatration just for ONE day? Obviously, you don't switch for one day if you intend to vote for Obama in the general.

Obama supporters = in the clouds.

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

Excuse me, I'm talking about my experience, not some fucking flyer that some other volunteer put out without authorization of the campaign. His idea of clever campaigning is not mine nor the campaign's. Why is it that people cannot seem to have a civil conversation with people on this website?

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 07:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, that's true (none / 0)

I hear you. Maybe we HRC supporters are a little amped up because anytime some little HRC staffer or volunteer does something controversial Obamafans are screaming and attributing it to HRC. Yet, Obama does nto get the same treatment. Just call a spade a spade (and that has no racial connotation).

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 07:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

If you took the time to read the article you will see that one Precinct Captain did this on his own, as soon as the campaign found out they told him to stop, and he has.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

The campaign told him to stop? That's certainly not the story he told.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

The article cited above says that he stopped after the campaign asked him to.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:47:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Well, then the campaign and the precinct captain are telling entirely different stories, and one of them is lying. According to ABC News:

Buchanan told ABC News that after leaving about 100 of the fliers in mail slots and doors yesterday he realized the message he was sending was "negative."

"This is not Obama," he says he thought to himself.

So today he changed the second side of the flier to make it instead positive things about Obama, he says, instead of negative about Clinton. "It says, 'Obama spoke against the war when it wasn't popular,' rather than focus on Hillary."

He distributed more than 100 of the new flier today, he says, still targeting independents and Republicans. "Here in Nevada, we've never had a caucus before. So a lot of independents and Republicans didn't know that they could vote."

Buchanan says the Obama campaign didn't know about his flier. "I've been trying to reach them today, but Obama's in Reno today so it's been tough to reach them," he says.

Even assuming the campaign is the one telling the truth, I certainly award them no points for telling someone to stop distributing an embarrassing flier once it was already reported in the press. But I'm not sure what the precinct captain's incentive would be to lie and say he hadn't been able to get in touch with the campaign.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Apparently the mistake is mine. They contacted the guy and he said he had already stopped. So apparently the campaign didn't need to stop him.

Not enough caffeine today.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:54:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Your option, award them no points or award both of them points. People are going to get carried away in an election, but what I want to see is the campaign saying hey you've crossed the line, or better yet volunteers doing that themselves. I wouldn't have minded the Bob Johnson thing so much if Hillary, who was standing there, said we don't need to say such things, or if Johnson the next day had said he made a joke he shouldn't have, but when people defend that behavior it really bothers me. So don't give them points, but this is what we need more of if we have any desire to hold the Party together after this Primary.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

They are telling two contradictory stories.

If the guy decided to stop on his own, bully for him, but shame on the campaign for trying to score points by pretending they had gotten tough with him and told him to stop.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:04:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Perhaps they sent him an email. Perhaps they told someone above him to get him to stop. Stop looking to make something out of nothing.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

It's rather telling that you refuse to even admit that the two stories are contradictory.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Isn't this rather silly, Steve. Did you ever consider Buchanan decided to stop himself, and when he and the campaign finally got in touch the campaign told him to stop and he said I already have. That's not an explanation the campaign needs to elaborate in great detail about, the important part for the campaign to say is we didn't sanction it beforehand and we told him to stop it. If anything is telling, it is your insistence to try to make it into something. Your point is what?

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Here's what the campaign said:

We'’ve learned that one individual who volunteers for the campaign was making the flyer and we’'ve instructed him to stop creating and distributing it.

That cannot be squared with the precinct captain's story about having stopped on his own, before he was even able to contact the campaign. It just can't.

I guess the ultimate point is that you're so unwilling to admit even the slightest imperfection on the part of the Obama campaign that you can't even acknowledge reality in this case.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

I guess you're right, you always are. I'm just a too biased to see reality which obviously excludes the possibility they sent him an email or that anything occurred between the time the ABC story was written and when the TPM story was written.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

It's dishonest to try and claim credit for stopping something that has already stopped.

I suppose I should email President Nixon and urge him to stop the Vietnam War.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

If you did you could claim what they claimed: "I've instructed him to stop".

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:51:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Story who told? This is from the linked TPM article:

Obama spokesman Bill Burton confirmed that Buchanan is a precinct captain, and sent me this statement:

We'’ve learned that one individual who volunteers for the campaign was making the flyer and we’ve instructed him to stop creating and distributing it. But make no mistake, we want as many independents and Republicans to become Democrats and help to build a new governing majority in this country.

I just got off the phone with the precinct captain, Bob Buchanan. He said that he had stopped distributing this particular flyer and replaced it with what he called a more positive one.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

See my reply above.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:51:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

Wait, isn't the actions of all of HRC's staff attriubted to her. Does the Obama campaign notice the hypocrisy?

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:51:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they used this tactic (none / 0)

The link says the Obama camp asked the volunteer who made the flyer to stop distributing it and that the guy in question has done so. Basically, the campaign said that they want to appeal to as many indies and disaffected republicans as possible (big tent approach) but that this flyer wasn't acceptable.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:43:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

AN precinct captain.. (none / 0)

actions don't reflex a campaign strategy. Sounds like an ex-republican got signed onto the campaign.

If Hillary can't stand up to that attitude she is toast in the GE.

BTW I'm seeing a lot of 'Anyone But Obama' sigs around here.

by JoeCoaster on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:44:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: AN precinct captain.. (none / 0)

hahaha. Right, what about blind quotes of "HRC advisers" that are attributed to Hillary. Oh well, let the voters decide...

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The New Flier (none / 0)

Isn't much better than the old one, IMO

"Republicans, Independents, Everyone. You can make the difference if you think a Democrat will win in November and you have said anybody but Hillary."

Note it doesn't say if you plan to vote for a Democrat or Obama in November, it just says if you want anybody but Hillary (which presumably could also include McCain, Huckabee, Romney...). So they are still going after the anti-Hillary vote (which Obama has no assurance will crossover to him in November) instead of the pro-Obama vote (which might also happen to be anti-Clinton but is at least likely to support him in November).

by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Demonize" trial lawyers? (none / 0)

I never understood why his making a point about his biography upset so many bloggers.

Considering it more noble to take the thankless and hopelessly paid plunge of becoming a community organizer instead of becoming a trail lawyer (admittedly lucrative) is truly attacking from the right(?)

A note on lawyers though: They know all the best lawyer jokes.

One Million Strong --- Join up

by psericks on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:36:26 PM EST

Re: "Demonize" trial lawyers? (2.00 / 0)

I'm an Obama supporter, but using the phrase "trial lawyer" is BS. That pissed me off, actually. In contrast, it woudl have been fine with me if he underscored the fact that he turned down lucrative corporate firm jobs. I give him credit for that -- it's hard to turn down that kind of money the way he did.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:40:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Demonize" trial lawyers? (none / 0)

Well said.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He made the comparison with Edwards explicit. (none / 0)

One Million Strong --- Join up

by psericks on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 07:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

haha...jon ralston reports that Kuchnich is being included in the debate.

by world dictator on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:41:14 PM EST

since he will advocate for Obama (none / 0)

it puts all the more pressure on Edwards and Clinton to make some kind of case against Obama in that debate.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: since he will advocate for Obama (none / 0)

agreed.

by world dictator on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: since he will advocate for Obama (none / 0)

Where is the Ralston report. I see only that Kucinich has sued.

by StrongDem08 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:47:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: since he will advocate for Obama (none / 0)

Jon Ralston produces online email alerts for people who buy his Ralston "alerts". He should have it up fairly soon. The entire text of the email was

Subject: RalstonFlash--Judge Charles Thompson orders Kucinich be included in debate

Body:
View As Web Page

Per KLAS's Mark Sayre.

Gotta love Nevada.

by world dictator on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: since he will advocate for Obama (none / 0)

I should say...he should have it up on his website soon.

http://vegaspundit.typepad.com/

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story. asp?S=1560638

He also have a column in the Las Vegas Sun

by world dictator on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: since he will advocate for Obama (none / 0)

It's about time they include Kucinich. It's ridiculous he had to sue to get back in.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:20:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: since he will advocate for Obama (none / 0)

JRE is going to piggy back BO on HRC. I still don't understand his strategy, it doesn't make sense.

by lonnette33 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unless something changes (none / 0)

Hillary will be the Democratic nominee. And the Democratic party will lose and America will lose. We had a chance
Obama has inspired me like I haven't been since RFK. The Clintons trash machine is tearing it apart. Very clever those Clintons. America loses

Listening comes first

by Moonwood on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:41:33 PM EST

Moon stop howling at the moon. (none / 0)

These silly "We're all doomed" if we nominate Clinton assertions are a bit juvenile.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:45:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

Saying another candidate's supporters don't have any conviction is uncalled for. John Edwards is a decent man who would make a fine president. You really need to get your head out of your behind and realize that your candidate is going to need people that like John Edwards -- and Obama -- to vote for her if she wins the nomination.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:46:12 PM EST

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

You are so right. Why must Obama supporters denigrate Clinton and Edwards. It's uncalled for.

I am very much against Edwards but I still have respect for his message and his supporters.

by kristoph on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

Bunch of lawyers?

Damn where did I put those car keys?
http://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/legal_ blog_watch/20
07/01/obama_the_stell.html

but of course everyone knew this because Obama mentions it so often in his stump speech.

What Edwards the" proud to be a lawyer" did
http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/feb05/e dwards020405.html

"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie

by nogo war on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:53:13 PM EST

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

Sorry
this is the link
http://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/legal_ blog_watch/2007/01/obama_the_stell.html

"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie

by nogo war on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:04:24 PM EST

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

This may not be the best link..
but I am sure folks can post links to when he was editor of the Law Review...

my point remains the bunch of lawyers crap...

He was...and IS was one of those bunch of lawyers.
I imagine he used this expertise when participating in his grassroots organizing in Chicago.

...this is the same meme that Republicans use how lawsuits are the reason for high medical costs...
Why does Obama make this an issue?
Can any Obama supporter link to a recent speech where he was proud of being editor in a clearly white elite Law School?....and dammit he should be proud!

"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie

by nogo war on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:21:37 PM EST

If she does well in debate it's hers (none / 0)

I think a lot of politically switched on Nevadans will be watching. If she give a performance like the one she gave on MTP she's home.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:47:28 PM EST

What Happens if after Super Tuesday (none / 0)

Edwards drops out and endorses Obama (I presume he can't pledge his delgates won from earlier states) and at end of all states' voting HRC has 47%, Obama has 44% and E etc have 9% (after superdelagates)

Does H then automatically win since 47>44?

by ionsys on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 07:03:12 PM EST

Honestly (none / 0)

My only thought is that powerful groups within Nevada think they are more likely to control the outcome, whether they be businesses, unions, etc.

But even that doesn't make a whole lot of sense because they are having primaries for state offices and I would've thought they'd want to control the outcome in those, too.

So perhaps they couldn't move the state primaries and couldn't justify two sets of primaries, so they went caucuses for the presidential?

But I agree it makes no sense. Regardless of who wins I can't help but feel it is something of a fluke given the mess surrounding it and the likelihood that many Nevada democrats won't participate at all.

by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 07:20:11 PM EST

Re: Honestly (none / 0)

We've had caususes here for presidential nominations since the 70s. One of the reasons NV made the short list for an early state is that its a caucus state. Originally we were supposed to go before NH so it had to be a caucus.

by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:39:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

From FirstRead:

LAS VEGAS -- Bill Clinton today defended a state NEA-backed lawsuit over caucus sites, saying that all Democrats should play by the same rules.

Clinton was asked about the suit this morning by a student at Green Valley High School, located in the Las Vegas suburb of Henderson. He said that, in essence, state Democrats made "a special rule only for" members of the Culinary union, the most powerful in the state, to be able to caucus at their work sites rather than at their home precincts. "I think the rules oughta be the same for everybody," he said. "I question why you would ever have a temporary caucus site and say only the people that work there -- i.e. the people that we know are going to vote in a certain way or we think they will -- should be able to caucus here. I think that we oughta make it more possible for everybody to vote."

(Of course, we'll ask again: If the Culinary Workers had endorsed Hillary, would there even be a lawsuit? And if so, would Bill be defending it?)

When asked next about the Culinary Workers endorsing Obama over Hillary, Clinton claimed that the campaign's voter outreach found that many members actually support his wife. "It will be interesting if they will be able to do so because you have to vote in public [at the caucus]," he said.

This man never ceases to amaze me in quite a negative way. There are a lot of workers on the Strip who are not in the Culinary Union, this wasn't done for one Union, it was done to to help all the workers in Las Vegas who have to work on Saturday. Which is a sizable chunk of Vegas residents. It was to try to bring about some sense of fairness in what is a terribly unfair process.

And the idea of the Union thwarting peoples' democratic expression is not something I expected to hear from someone the Democratic ex-President of the United States.

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:38:25 PM EST

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

What about people who don't work on the strip? Why don't they have special at large places to caucus?

by americanincanada on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:50:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

I'm not sure of all the reasoning behind the decision, but it seems to make sense that in a community where a lot of people work in a single congested area of the town and have to work on Saturday that they would allow people to caucus near their work. I don't see what the Teacher's Union objection would be since they on the whole do not work on Saturdays and can caucus in the precincts where they live. What is the objection to it?

by Piuma on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The At-Large Precinct Controversy T (none / 0)

You're right; its entirely unfair to those voters. I spoke to a guy tonight who wants to caucus for Edwards but works Saturday, not on the Strip. I gently suggested that if he could make himself available it would only take about an hour and a half, but he's a restaurant waiter and the caucus is at 12; he'd have to miss his entire shift.

Its also incredibly unfair to the disabled. I had to explain to a disabled WW2 vet in a wheel chair that he couldn't vote by mail as he usually does.

I didn't make the rules. And some of the people who did now decide they don't like them either.

by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:41:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Uses The Controversy To Rally Workers (none / 0)

I can't help it. I think of Elmer Gantry whenever I read an Obama speech.

by Thaddeus on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:54:29 AM EST

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