Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0

I find it so interesting that Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton is attempting to cast herself as the "change" candidate in the race.  She and her supporters tout her as the strongest Democratic candidate, and cite her dominance in fundraising, endorsements, and campaign organization as evidence of that claim.

But the nearly 60% of Democratic voters who support other Democratic candidates for president have a different concern.  Our fear is that Hillary Clinton is polarizing and divisive, and that her presence at the top of our ticket will cause incumbents and challengers in swing states to run away from her rather than run with her.  This claim is supported by a recent poll commissioned by a Latino interest group and conducted by former Clinton pollster Celinda Lake.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201024_ pf.html A recent survey by Democratic pollster Celinda Lake, however, showed Clinton and Obama trailing former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) in the 31 Democratic-held House districts regarded as most imperiled in 2008, and even potentially serving as a drag on those lawmakers' reelection chances.  Giuliani takes 49 percent to Clinton's 39 percent.

Perhaps more damaging to Clinton is her link to questionable fundraising, and in some cases to outright dirty money.  Fundraising has long haunted the legacy of both Clintons.  As far back as 1997, questions were raised after Bill Clinton used the Lincoln Bedroom as a fundraising mechanism, inviting financial contributors to stay the night in the historic room after providing large donations to the DNC and his reelection campaign.

From CNN:

WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Feb. 26) -- President Bill Clinton's guests in the Lincoln Bedroom gave a total of at least $5.4 million to the Democratic National Committee during 1995 and 1996, according to a study for CNN by the Campaign Study Group. http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/02/2 6/clinton.lincoln/

Hillary Clinton has extended the same "pay to play" fundraising style in her own presidential campaign.

Even if nothing illegal was committed, that fundraising scandal is an indication of what's wrong in Washington.  Remember that just weeks ago she hosted a "national security" fundraiser where she hooked up lobbyists and the committee chairs that enact their legislation.  Here's what Chris Matthews had to say on the subject:

Speaking of lobbyists, what does Hillary Clinton have to say about them?

That's right, lobbyists represent real Americans.  I certainly have one or two working on my behalf right now, and I'm sure you do as well.  I guess that's why Senator Clinton has received more lobbyist money than any other Democrat in history, while Edwards and Obama take the principled stand of rejecting funds from Washington lobbyists.

Beyond the issue of lobbyists, Hillary Clinton also was forced to return nearly a million dollars received by associates of disgraced "Hill-raiser" Norman Hsu.  Clinton allowed Hsu to be a bundler even when other campaigns, including the California Democratic Party, had rejected his funds due to his fugitive status.  She returned the money after being caught.

Beyond the finance woes, do any of us want to be reminded of THIS when the Republicans start running their ads?

The problem was, he did have sexual relations with that woman, he did lie under oath, and he was impeached in what was perhaps the most divisive time in modern American politics.  It was the impeachment scandal that contributed to Al Gore's narrow loss to George Bush.

Most recently, the former president refuses to disclose the donors to his presidential library. According to ABC News:

ABC News' Rick Klein and Eloise Harper Report: Former president Bill Clinton said Thursday that he will not reveal the names of donors to the Clinton Presidential Library unless he is required to by law, rebuffing pressure from his wife's rivals for more disclosure.

"The people that have already given me money, I don't think I should disclose it unless there is some conflict of which I am aware -- and there is not -- because a lot of people gave me money with the understanding that they could give anonymously. And if they gave publicly they would be the target for every other politician in America."

Among the entities who have been reported to have given more than $1 million toward the presidentical center: the governments of Dubai, Kuwait, and Qatar; the Saudi royal family; a deputy prime minister of Lebanon; filmmakers Steven Spielberg, Stephen Bing, and David Geffen; Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart heir Alice Walton; the Anheuser-Busch Foundation; and Vin Gupta, chairman and CEO of infoUSA Inc., a telemarketing firm that has come under scrutiny for its handling of private information. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/clinton-libary-.html

Doesn't that sound like the kind of open politics we need? And what better a group of people to be taking money from: The Al Saud's, the government of Dubai, the Waltons, etc. No wonder he won't disclose his library's donors.

We Democrats should be looking toward the future.  We need to cut with the Clinton years.  We need our party to cut ties with lobbyists.  We need a presidential candidate not tainted by fundraising scandals and weighed down by past lapses in moral judgment.  In other words, we need someone other than Hillary Clinton.



Display:


This diary is just pathetic. (2.00 / 1)


by bookgrl on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:09:37 AM EST

Re: This diary is just pathetic. (1.33 / 3)

WHINING ! WHINING!

Write you own diary and get over it !


by win on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:37:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This diary is just pathetic. (2.00 / 1)

pithy

You should write a poem, you folks have a way with words.


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 07:42:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

That poll was posted three times already and one more time today. We don't need a fifth.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:14:46 AM EST

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (1.00 / 2)

Since you're continuing this sort of stupid hit piece, I have no choice but to dig out Edwards' Macaca moment, he and his supporters really have lots of explanations to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyCPCiH0G -c


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:15:56 AM EST

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

Even your own cohorts have debunked your slur in the diary you wrote.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:17:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

Why did you delete your diary?


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:18:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I watched the GOP Tavis Smiley (2.00 / 1)

debate and the republicans who attended said much the same thing.

it's called "hyperbole"..

get a clue


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 08:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

VP, try to keep up (none / 0)

There was a poll weeks ago that showed that voters already overwhelmingly saw her as the change candidate.  She doesn't have to TRY to cast herself as anything.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:16:44 AM EST

Re: VP, try to keep up (2.00 / 0)

Yet the Hillary cheer squad shows up within 3 minutes of posting this diary up in arms... hm.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:18:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (none / 0)

When you try to demonize out candidate, I think we have the right to defend her.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:19:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (2.00 / 0)

I agree, yet interestingly nobody has addressed the content in the diary.  Either because you aren't able to, or are just unwilling to.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:21:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (none / 0)

Because it has been discussed in coutless diaries befor, Vox. There is no need to discuss it. We have done it already. Too many times and it is getting old.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:23:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (1.33 / 3)

To be honest with you. I have NoT even read your diary. But make no mistake, we are going to hit back on any of your smear piece, relentlessly.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:30:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (1.00 / 1)

I'm not surprised you didn't read.  Honestly, I didn't ever think you could and your grammar supports my claim.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (2.00 / 1)

That was an unnecessary insult. Can you ever keep your diaries clean of insults and bad language?


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:38:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (2.00 / 2)

I don't recall using bad language, if I have I apologize.  As far as the insult, when someone admits to not reading the diary yet feels free to post (more than once) in it, then I think some form of insult is appropriate.  I mean really, if you don't read it, why comment on it?


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:41:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (none / 0)

Understandable, but we are all here to discuss our candidates and get one of them nominated and eventually elected as the 44th President of the United States of America. If we can't do that without personal insults, then I am truly saddened by the state of the debate.

And I understand, it is not only you, I have done my fair share. I share that responsibility.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:52:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (2.00 / 1)

You are being hypocritical. You let areyouready make the most trollish comment without reaction and then you pounce on Vox for responding to it. Hillary Clinton Bush/Lieberman enablers live by a double standard and deserve to be called out for it every single time it occurs.


by Freaky Thirsty on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 09:45:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (none / 0)

by areyouready

"To be honest with you. I have NoT even read your diary. But make no mistake, we are going to hit back on any of your smear piece, relentlessly."

by Vox Populi

"I'm not surprised you didn't read.  Honestly, I didn't ever think you could and your grammar supports my claim."

areyouready's post was NOY trollish and you rated it as such. He simply stated his support for his candidate. Vox Populi wrongly insulted areyouready's grammar for stating such thing. DO you not condemn unwarranted insults on this site. By the way, your abuse of the rating system is beyond belief.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VP, try to keep up (none / 0)

kind of makes me think where they come're coming from. Out of the woodwork, perhaps.


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 07:38:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (2.00 / 1)

There just mad bcause it's all true about the Clintons,they are the past,it's time to move towards the future and it's not the Clintons.


by redtime12 on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:43:19 AM EST

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (2.00 / 1)

Vox Populi,  I like your diary.

Forget about the loosers and whiners.

If Bill Clinton is worried about Obama (24,000+ in New York for Obama! A record for a primary - ever), you know that he doesn't believe in the polls.


by win on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:45:18 AM EST

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

Yo, I heard it's said the revolution won't be televised

The front page opted to put up a poll.


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 07:35:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (2.00 / 1)

In the end, OBAMA WILL WIN.

Obama is charming, intelligent and charismatic. It is a gift that Hillary doesn't have. Even the media (lobbyists' dreadful weapon) can't change that image. Remember, "if it barks like a dog, it is a dog."

Hillary is FAKE. Even the simple laugh is fabricated, not natural. I guess that is one reason Bill, even while President, was (is?) fooling around. It is not simply a coincidence.


by win on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 02:16:18 AM EST

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

And Obama's politics of hope is fake. His central campaign point is fake.

Seriously, we don't need to be spewing this type of trash talk.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 02:42:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

Vox, I could swear people have already explained to you, multiple times, that Celinda Lake is a pollster for one of Clinton and Obama's rivals and that the poll question contained extremely negative rhetoric aimed at Democrats with the intention of driving Clinton and Obama's numbers down.

When you keep citing to that poll, ignoring these important facts over and over again, one starts to suspect that you're really just not that concerned about telling the truth.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 03:01:16 AM EST

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (2.00 / 0)

The poll in question was done for a Democratic interest group.  While Lake currently is a pollster for Biden, this poll was not done for him.  And Celinda has worked for the Clintons in the past.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 09:06:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

You don't think the wording of the poll is an issue?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you don't think democrats should know their... (none / 0)

weaknesses???

oppo always starts at home...


"This is the time for resolve and steady leadership" -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

Vox is here to just mix things up.  He is not interested in the truth, just trying to get hit-diaries in the rec. list.   Remember that just a couple of months ago he spoke VERY highly of Clinton, claimed that he would happily cast his vote for her.  Also, Obama was his favorite whip-boy, Obama could do nothing right.   There is also the touch of desperation if a poster does not disclose that a certain poll he references was conducted by a Biden operative to discredit a political rival.  The big caveat about that "poll" was HOW the question was asked.  Not disclosing those caveats is shameful.  


by georgep on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:41:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (2.00 / 1)

To RJEvans:

Watch the video above: "I did not have sexual relationships with that woman...." By that time, he had more experience than Obama. Let's face it. Bill lied then and he is lying on Obama. Hillary was "surprised" by Bill Clinton affairs! Since Arkansas???? Who are you kidding?

Obama has a different kind of experience: Character, honesty, truth-telling are part of the package.
 America is ready to turn the page. FIRE IT UP!


by win on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 03:37:22 AM EST

what people like kos and singer (2.00 / 2)

are forgetting is how painful it will be if hillary gets the nomination.

she'll trot out Lanny Davis and Co. and than they will bash the netroots,  (we'll be made into the moveon.org ad essentiallY).

we'll be Hillary's sistah souljah.


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 08:15:55 AM EST

Re: what people like kos and singer (none / 0)

Does anyone really want that scab picked off?  It took a long time for the country to heal after our president was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice.  We don't need to re-live the 1990's.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:11:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what people like kos and singer (none / 0)

Repug talking points at its best.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what people like kos and singer (none / 0)

Which country are you referring to that "needed time to heal"?  Certainly not the United States.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 09:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what people like kos and singer (none / 0)

I think our country was doing just fine during the impeachment. 60%-65% of the people still approved of our President, the economy was doing good and we were totally oblivious to the dangers of the world. I think we were just fine.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:55:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what people like kos and singer (none / 0)

The netroots will be abuzz with excitement.  Those who continue sour grapes (already happening) and "fighting for Nader/Bloomberg" declarations and calling our nominee names (playing into the right-wing's hands) will be ill-regarded.   There will probably be a bunch of whiny "What has become of this place?  You are all in Clinton's backpocket" posts with threats of taking one's ball and leaving.  It is all part of the process and progression.


by georgep on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:31:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what people like kos and singer (2.00 / 1)

What's more likely is that a majority of Clinton supporters will suddenly vanish because the primary is over.  Many of your cohorts from HillaryIs44.org don't comment in non-candidate diaries or front-page posts.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:34:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what people like kos and singer (none / 0)

Nah, the vast majority of Obama posters who have shown up here since May/June will be gone for sure.  Many of the Edwards' posters will go the same way.  It is part and parcel of diaries like this one, which will no longer be looked upon as anything but smearing once the nomination is decided.  I've seen bruh "give up" and leaving politics here and over on openleft because the frontpagers "are selling out" (aka they don't support the "right" choice of candidate.)   I believe we will see that happen quite a bit in the coming weeks and months.


by georgep on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

You are WAY off.

81% of Democrats have a favorable opinion of Clinton.  That is much higher than either Edwards or Obama.

You try to make it seem like that 60% of Democrats are "against" her, but that is absolutle nonsense.   It makes it seem like you are not familiar with how things work in a multi-candidate field.  By that token you should state that nearly 90% of Democrats don't want anything to do with Edwards, 80% with Obama.    


by georgep on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:27:18 AM EST

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (2.00 / 1)

What I'm saying is that folks like you look at her as the inevitable second coming.  Despite 100% name recognition and an 80% approval among Democrats, roughly 60% of Democratic primary voters have chosen to support other candidates in the field.  

I didn't say they were against her, but at the point, they aren't with her either.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

Again, that makes no sense at all.  Edwards has a 93% name recognition factor and about a 73% approval rating.  Yet, only 13% are with him.  

Are you at all familiar how multi-candidate nomination processes work?   Why not just start writing honest posts that are not aimed at mixing things up, where posters here can take you seriously and value your opinion again?


by georgep on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:09:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Back to the Past: Clinton 2.0 (none / 0)

i wouldnt have said 13% are voting for him, but that 83% are NOT voting for him


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:06:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NEW IA POLL (none / 0)

Newsweek poll: (likely Caucus voters)released Sept. 29th

Obama 28
Clinton 24
Edwards 22

(1st and 2nd choices combined)
Obama 52
Clinton 44
Edwards 41

This is a 3 way race no inevitability here


by BDM on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NEW IA POLL (none / 0)

Whaaooo!!!

Obama on top?  With all the media onslaught on him?

CBS's K. Couric went as low as polling his name and broadcasted it in the Evening News!!!!
AP's Nadra Pickler deliberately misquoted him (Front page: "Obama is going to invade Pakistan"!!!). She never apologized.
After last debate, I heard MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell(?) edited the debate to make fool of Obama.

Oh Yes, we have to name them.


by win on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am always disgusted ... (none / 0)

When people like use use righting attacks on Democratic candidates.  When you adopt rightwing talking points you give life to the forthng at teh mouth wingnuts that created the talking point in the first place.


by dpANDREWS on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:34:52 PM EST

Re: I am always disgusted ... (2.00 / 1)

I'm sorry that your candidate has given the right wing the opportunity to come up with such talking points.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am always disgusted ... (none / 0)

And you boldly use it on a fellow Democrat.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shameful (none / 0)

What some will do.


by dpANDREWS on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Could you imagine the howls (none / 0)

If CLinton supporters were to use the rightwing smears on Obama?  Or Edwards?  

If certain family medical issues or middle names or sources of primary education or certain business dealing, etc. were brought into play and attached to specific challengers people would howl -- and rightfully so.  But to use rightwing smears against Clinton, they let that slide.


by dpANDREWS on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:02:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could you imagine the howls (none / 0)

HWC has speculated about Elizabeth's cancer on more than one occasion.  If you want to talk about Bill Clinton's heart problems, then I guess it's all fair game.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 01:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am always disgusted ... (none / 0)

Look.

I don't think most people are "against" Hillary Clinton.

PEOPLE ARE FOR (YES, FOR!) OBAMA or EDWARDS/BIDEN/RICHARDSON....

Hillary and Bill Clinton are the ones who turn the debate into a nasty "us against them". Very divisive!


by win on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Facts are facts (none / 0)

"Clintonistas", "Hellery", "bitch", "liar", and last but not least, "whore" -- I have read all those words at one time or another here used in attacks on Clinton by supporters of other candidates.


by dpANDREWS on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 04:41:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

unfortunately, the dominant frame on hillary is... (none / 0)

right-wing.  THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT!  

it's a little hypocritical of you to criticize us for talking within the context of the mainstream frame of hillary clinton and not criticizing her for allowing herself to be defined successfully by the right.  that's the problem many of us have with her.  you can't blame us for her ineffectiveness is defining herself...


"This is the time for resolve and steady leadership" -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:43:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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