Clinton to Outraise Obama, but at what cost?

reposted by permission of diarist, Geekesque, posted @ daily kos

Two stories running today discuss the outstanding success Hillary Clinton has had raising money this quarter.  This should surprise, well, no sentient being.  Clinton has been dominating the polls, the media coverage, and the endorsement circuit.  She is the candidate of the establishment, and the establishment never lacks for funds.

However, another story threatens to cast a cloud on this silver lining--the ongoing saga of Norman Hsu, Ponzi schemer and Hillraiser.

Indeed, the question may become whether the victory Clinton has achieved in fundraising may be a Pyrrhic one.

Bloomberg news reports that previous reports of Obama outraising Clinton were just plain silly:

Hillary Clinton may blunt one of rival Barack Obama's few advantages in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination: money.

Indeed, the 'money primary' is the only place where Obama has had a measurable advantage on Clinton and the rest of the field.  

A failure to out-raise Clinton would deprive Obama of the momentum he needs to overcome his rival's significant leads in national and key state polls. Obama raised $33 million to her $27 million in the second quarter and ended up with more cash on hand for the primary elections. His campaign had aimed to be able to outspend her significantly in the last part of 2007 and early next year.

This part strikes me as off.  I don't think anyone in Obamaland seriously thought they were going to be able to seriously outspend Clinton in this race.  No challenger to the Establishment Candidate has ever done that.

``The Clinton juggernaut is moving if she out-raises him this quarter,'' said Peter Fenn, a Democratic consultant who isn't affiliated with any candidate this year. ``It makes the argument for her winnability an easier one.''

A comparatively strong haul for Clinton would allow her to minimize Obama's argument that his larger list of donors reflects a broader appeal to voters. Obama's Web site says he has more than 340,000 contributors. Clinton said she had more than 100,000 in a Sept. 23 interview on NBC. She wouldn't comment further at a news conference the next day.

This does help Obama, but Clinton's lead in the national polls makes it harder to argue that the number of donors means much.

The Clinton 'machine' has been much hyped in its ability to raise this kind of money.  Indeed, it was a shock to everyone that the newbie Obama was able to outraise her for the first two quarters.

But, did the Clinton campaign place too much emphasis on aggressive fundraising, and inadvertently give her primary opponents the edge they were looking for?

Most everyone has heard about Norman Hsu.  Most know that he bundled $850,000 for the Clinton presidential campaign, which the Clinton campaign has said they would return (as of this diary, there has been no indication that refund checks had been mailed out).  Most also know that Hsu had been alleged to be involved in fraudulent business schemes.

But, the Hsu story has been a steady drip, drip, drip.  And each new detail is less flattering than the prior one.

First, the revelation that not only was Hsu a fraudster who was enriching himself using a Ponzi scheme, but that
his business fraud and campaign donations/bundling were part of a single corrupt enterprise.  In other words, Hsu was engaging in fraud to finance his campaign fundraising operation.  

Second, embarrassing ties to other major Democratic figures emerged.  Hsu was named to the New School Board of Trustees by Bob Kerrey.

It had been reported previously that a Clinton campaign official had been flatly denying rumors that Hsu was engaged in unethical activities.  Bob Kerrey found himself doing the same.

He was a mover and shaker who was recruited by Bob Kerrey, the university's president and a former senator from Nebraska, one of several people associated with the university who are prominent in Democratic politics or political fund-raising circles. Until last week Mr. Kerrey had been one of the few people speaking out in Mr. Hsu's defense, calling him a "terrific member" of the New School's board who was being unfairly pilloried

Query:  Does this Hsu connection have anything to do with Kerrey's recent decision to eschew another run for Senate?

Of course, a number of people on the New School board of trustees have donated major money to campaigns--donating money is how people get on these boards in the first place.  There are Republican fundraisers.  There is an Obama fundraiser.

The New School's Dean, Fred Hochberg, is a former Clinton administration official and is also a major Hillraiser.

If one compares Hochberg's donations, one finds a very strong correlation/coincidence with Hsu's bundling activities.

Hochberg, Fred (Open Secrets)

Norman Hsu bundled donations link roundup.

Neither Hsu's network nor Hochberg donated to Chuck Schumer between 2003 and 2007, which is curious given Chuck's fundraising prowess.

But, there were a number of coincidental donations to other New York state officials and out of state officials.  For Example:

On 10/24/05, Fred Hochberg contributed $2,000 to Ted Kennedy.

On the same day Hsu bundled several donations, including those from the Paw family (remember them?) totaling $9400 to Ted Kennedy.

On 5/3/07, Fred Hochberg donated $2300 to Mark Pryor (D-Arkansas), who has endorsed Hillary Clinton.

On 5/3/07, Hsu donated personally donated $2500 to Pryor.
On 5/4/07, Hsu bundled $6000 in donations to Pryor.

Okay, okay, one says.  Fundraising events happen all the time, so dates will line up.  And, considering the sheer volume of bundled donations from Hsu, there would be coincidences like this.  This may look like smoke, but there's no fire, right?

Wrong.

Disgraced fund-raiser Norman Hsu did a lot more than just pump $850,000 into Hillary Clinton's campaign bank account: He also raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for local, state, and federal candidates who have endorsed Clinton or whose support she courted.

In at least some cases, Clinton or her aides directly channeled contributions from Hsu and his network to other politicians supportive of her presidential campaign, according to interviews and campaign finance records. There is nothing illegal about one politician steering wealthy contributors to another, but the New York senator's close ties to Hsu have become an embarrassment for her and her campaign.

Among the officials to whom Clinton asked Hsu to funnel donations were:

Dina Titus, a Democratic party leader in early caucus state Nevada and Tom Vilsack, who endorsed Clinton and who received help from Clinton in retiring his campaign debt.

Others:

Campaign finance records show numerous contributions from Hsu and his associates to Clinton supporters.

In New Hampshire, Senate President Sylvia Larsen's Democratic Caucus committee received $5,000 from Hsu in September 2006; Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan collected more than $20,000 from Hsu and his associates; Senator Mark Pryor of Arkansas took in about $11,000; and Senator Dianne Feinstein of California received at least $17,000.

Hsu and his network also gave nearly $50,000 to Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa. Harkin has not endorsed anyone, but his wife, Ruth, is a major Clinton backer.

In addition, Hsu and his associates have contributed tens of thousands of dollars to state and local Democratic Party organizations and candidates around the country, including more than $100,000 to Governor Eliot Spitzer of New York and Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York, both of whom have endorsed Clinton. On Feb. 21, Hsu dipped into Chicago city politics, giving $3,500 to Alderman Danny Solis, the brother of Patti Solis Doyle, Clinton's campaign manager.

There's your fire, folks.  
And this comes at a time when Hillary has a major target on her back, as having been annointed as the presumptive nominee by the media.

And, guess what?  There's a Presidential debate tonight in New Hampshire.  

The Hill characterized the upcoming debate as Hillary in the Cross-Hairs.

It would be a tremendous shock if someone--especially Barack Obama or John Edwards--did not take a direct shot at Clinton over the Hsu story.

This is their chance to exploit a potential weakness in a candidate who has shown very few.  But, they had better hit their mark if they do, lest Clinton clobber them with a counterattack.  To paraphrase Machiavelli, do not (merely) wound the Queen, lest you find out why she is the Queen.

Permission to distribute this diary in its entirety is granted provided that there is proper attribution.



Display:


Re: Clinton to Outraise Obama, but at what cost? (none / 0)

Another Hsu story , Damn I am ready to throw up.

By the way Have you made a decision to flood the post today , this is your second post back to back.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:20:41 PM EST

Re: Clinton to Outraise Obama, but at what cost? (none / 0)

i have not posted too much recently, and this was by permission, and it is 2 a day correct?  so, i am within my limit.


by iamready on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ready for it...get ready...the antidote (none / 0)

for your kind of attack garbage...ready...five letters..

R.E.Z.K.O.

Got it Stoller?

Oh yeah, and nice slime on my Senator Bob...nice...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

feel free to show us what obama did for rezko... (none / 0)

that is out of the ordinary.

and i don't mean having a picture taken with him.  it's not like barack hid billing records under subpoena in his closet or anything...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 07:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feel free to show us what obama did for rezko. (none / 0)

You dont KNOW???

You have never investigated this story?

Pleas - My God!

You are kidding right?!

Talk about kool aid - your eating it right outta the pack - no water - no sugar - no spoon!

Its a pain to do that kind of research - but if it gets nasty tonight - I will

dont wanna though..

Im not one, like you and your pals, who likes bring out the skeletons of our candidate.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please do that research (none / 0)

I would like you to do that research. I doubt you will come up with anything that hasn't already been covered many times here on MYDD and in the mainstream media.


by Korha on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that you just pretend doesnt exist (none / 0)

then why the f should i waste my time?


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

more proof that you're full of it... (none / 0)

i have no doubt that i know a lot more about this than you do.  sure, you throw the slime, but that's all you're good for anyway -- by your own admission.  when it comes to proof, or even an argument, you fold like a tent.  no surprise.

amateur...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 10:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what slime have i thrown (none / 0)

show me


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 03:58:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

YOU -- or rather, what you write -- are the proof (none / 0)

if you need proof, look at your comments.

or may just try google.com...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 09:46:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

come on attack boy (none / 0)

i showed you mine now show me yours...come on...you claim ya know so much more about these things and keep writing snide digs and attacks - tell me your background.  You say you have your "presidential appt"...what was it for the battlefield monuments commission for district 17a - subzone 12?  Come on big boy.  A new kind of campaigning?  Please, you are just a whiny, yippy attack puppy, driving around in your bumper sticker covered station wagon - just looking for someone to give the finger to - and Im sure Im not just talking figuratively.

And good come back on my response to your charges Ive slimed a candidate.  You know you cant find it, because I have been sure not to do it.  (thats SMART politics - something you obviously dont practice yourself as you hurl charges of "corruption" at Hillary almost every single time you share your "thoughts" on the blogosphere.

And no, Im not gonna do the work for a lazy ass Obamite who doesnt even read the basic political texts before he goes on the Hill attack here at my dd.  Jeeze, what an amateurish web game plan you boys have developed.  It aint working dude.  Hill keeps building and building it seems, brick by brick, debate by debate.  With only a few months left, just what are you gonna do?  Im sure just more of the same old same old.  His campaign will yip and you will snarl.  Puppies both.  Man, its fun watching you flail and fail.  Im enjoying it greatly.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 10:02:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

liar... (none / 0)

i've never said that hillary was corrupt, nor have i seen anyone else make that charge recently.  i would not have contributed to her if i believed she was corrupt...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 03:15:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

stay away from me (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 07:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i'm pretty sure i'm not anywhere near you... (none / 0)


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 10:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i guess your as thick as you are false (none / 0)

I repeat, stay away from me.

I will no longer dialog with you.

That's over.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:22:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They push Hsu at their own risk (none / 0)

Obama took his money.  A lot of Democrats have taken his money.  Most Democrats want this man to go away and this story to die down.  Anyone who wants to keep harping on it risks ticking off a lot of other Democrats.

Remember, with attacks come risk.  That is why risk adverse Obama has not gone on the attack that much.  Edwards on the other hand will jump the shark, in my opinion, before this is all over.  If Obama loses he goes back to the Senate to try again someday.  Edwards will be a two time loser with no political future.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:27:01 PM EST

Edwards probably has to be careful as well (none / 0)

He has an indicted fundraiser in his closet too.  


by dpANDREWS on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:28:15 PM EST

lil more then closet (none / 0)

Barack actually WORKED FOR Rezko...and thats just the tip of the iceberg, that we will leave under water unless he takes the advice of Matt Stoller's sock puppet here...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:36:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do your homework before slandering leading Dems (none / 0)

Fred Hochberg was the openly gay Deputy Administrator and Acting Administrator of the Small Business Association in the Clinton administration and a member of Hillary's LGBT advisory committee.

Here's what he had to say about Hillary in this week's major cover story interview with Clinton in the LGBT news magazine The Advocate:

http://www.advocate.com/issue_story_ekti d49015.asp

The Clinton acolytes who know her well point to another reason to vote for her: her pure comfort level with gay people. Fred Hochberg, the head of the Small Business Administration under President Clinton and now the dean of the business school at the New School in New York, has known Hillary since the 1992 campaign, when he raised funds for her husband. He sits on her campaign's LGBT steering committee, cannily launched on the eve of this year's Stonewall anniversary, and he talks admiringly not only of the "hard work" she's done behind the scenes, such as organizing meetings of the Senate leadership on LGBT issues, but also of her "enormously relaxed" vibe at the HRC-Logo forum -- and with Hochberg and his partner, Tom Healy.

"She's one of the very few people in life, let alone public life, who will unfailingly always ask, virtually the first question, `How's Tom? What's he doing?' " Hochberg tells me. "She was at an event for the New School, and as I said goodbye she said, `Make sure to give Tom a hug for me.' That kind of expression feels personal, genuine. Not a lot of people do that period, let alone a sitting senator or first lady. It's unique among faculty members. I'm dean of the school, and they don't ask me about my partner!"

Hochberg also recounts a fascinating story: that when Clinton's father died of a stroke in 1993, her parents' gay male neighbor came to the hospital to be with the family. "I introduced her at a fund-raiser in Washington, and Hillary spoke very eloquently about that," Hochberg says. "That's a deeply personal experience any of us endures, the loss of a parent, and the person that was with her father was her mother and father's gay neighbor. She just made that part of the story of her life -- I think that's meaningful."

You Naderites need to be very careful when you start lobbing accusations around. You run the risk of pissing off some of the major constituent groups of the Democratic party. You know, there are long-time Democratic supporters and groups beyond the narrow confines of the netroots. You've just slandered a very prominent gay Democratic Party official, donor, and academic.


by hwc on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:48:25 PM EST

what a pretty picture (2.00 / 1)

and Im not even gay.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 05:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton to Outraise Obama, but at what cost? (none / 0)

First, the revelation that not only was Hsu a fraudster who was enriching himself using a Ponzi scheme, but that his business fraud and campaign donations/bundling were part of a single corrupt enterprise.  In other words, Hsu was engaging in fraud to finance his campaign fundraising operation.  

This isn't really accurate.  Hsu was (allegedly, cough) scamming people out of money, but that money didn't go to political candidates.  Instead, Hsu would pressure the people caught up in his scam (who thought they were making money via Hsu, but it was all a big Ponzi scheme) to give money to specific candidates, implying that if they didn't, Hsu would cut off their gravy train.

I've personally dealt with some of the largest Ponzi schemes in U.S. history.  The people who pull off these scams often get away with it for years, and the whole time, sophisticated business people are fooled into thinking that they're legitimate operators with a real business behind them.

I see no indication that Hillary and the other Democrats who took money from Hsu had any reason to believe he was anything other than a successful businessman with a lot of money and a lot of contacts.

I find it unfortunate that Democrats are trumping up this issue against other Democrats, because at this time there's no reason to believe anyone was guilty of wrongdoing other than Hsu himself, and it's the kind of sexy-sounding Whitewater non-scandal that could become an issue in the general election because most people won't delve down into the details to figure out that the Democrats didn't actually do anything wrong.  I don't like how people bring up this sort of "smoke , but no fire" issue during the primary season as though there are no consequences down the road.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 05:23:16 PM EST

Re: Clinton to Outraise Obama, but at what cost? (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton probably traded her vote today for Joe Lieberman's Declaration of War on Iran for heavy lobbyist money. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.


by Freaky Thirsty on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 07:53:53 PM EST


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