Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An Indepth Look ( Repost)

A common negative comment I read about Clinton is that "she doesn't vote the way I want most of the time" , or " She is the least progressive candidate " . When I first came onto this site,  I actually also believed that. I thought Clinton had a conservative voting record, closer to the right of the party then the left. I imagined a large gap between her and the liberal leaders of our party, like Boxer and Kennedy. Of course, I'd never actually looked at her record, or where she ranked. I held my opinion on faith and faith alone. And I think a lot of people here are the same way.

One day someone made a comment like "Hillary Clinton is the worst Democrat in the party". And I though, "that probably isn't quite true. Bad, but not the worst". So I looked it up. And I was wrong. She's not the worst. She's not even bad. Hillary Clinton has a liberal voting record. Now everyone ascribes whatever personal view they have to her She has been called a socialist , moderate , conservative , neo - con , leftist , fascist , ultra liberal , communist , anti - christ and I can go on for ever , its everyone's prerogative to call her whatever they wish to push their own perceived agenda ( including Clinton supporters ) and those who think the descriptions are wrong will continue to argue it , but this diary looks exclusively at the candidates "Voting Records " on progressive economic,social and political issues.So in essence this is about " Record " not " Rhetoric " ( Memo to Edwards , Clintn , Obama Supporters ) , as we know every campaign as adopted a rhetoric now that they feel is appropriate to run a winning campaign.

The other day, Alegre posted a full account of her liberal votes. http://www.dailykos.com/...

Today, I'm going to post rankings that show where she compares to other candidates. The rankings I'm using are full term ones. They encompass the total votes from when the candidate was elected to when the ranking was put together. If you have a few minutes, please look them over.

First, we have Progressive Punch.

http://progressivepunch.org/...

This scorecard currently ranks Clinton as the 14th most liberal Senator. It's still a little wonky because it includes the rankings of the newest Senators, who haven't had many votes under their belts. For example, ain't no way Casey is the 5th most liberal. Over time, that will average out to a more accurate portrait. Before the new Senators were included, I believe Clinton ranked 10th. Currently, she is ranked slightly more liberal then Obama with a 92.19% progressive score to his 91.51% (15th place) Ted Kennedy (7th) has 95.5, Dodd has 86.96% (27) Biden has 84.6 (31) and Joe Lieberman hovers down around 76.71 in 46th place.

Next, we have National Journal.

http://nationaljournal.com/...

This was a ranking put together in 2004 to refute the idea that Kerry was the most liberal Senator.

Here, Hillary Clinton is ranked 13th most liberal with a 83.9 score. The most liberal Senator has a 90.3 score. Dodd is 22nd with with a 78.9 rating. Joe Biden is 25 with 76.6. John Edwards is ranked in 27th with a 75.7 score. Joe Lieberman is down at 40 and has a 64.1.

Next, we have GovTrack

http://www.govtrack.us/...

This site "is generated through a statistical analysis of the cosponsorship of bills in the 109th and 110th sessions of Congress"

Hillary Clinton is ranked as the 5th most liberal Senator. Obama is somewhere around the 15th.  Some of this might be skewed by the fact that Clinton is a more senior, more powerful Senator and thus has had the oppurtunity to sponsor more legislation. That doesn't account for the
co-sponsorship though

Next, we have Drum Major

http://www.drummajorinstitute.com/...

In 2005, they put together a scorecard on economic votes. Clinton (who missed one vote for her husband's surgery) earns an A. Obama, who voted wrong twice, earns a C.

Finally, we have the work of our own DemocraticLuntz, an Obama supporter.
http://www.dailykos.com/...

He provides a summary of the percentage of times candidates have voted like Lieberman.

Summary (% of the time every candidate voted with Lieberman)
Joe Biden: 88.90%
Hillary Clinton: 89.08%
Chris Dodd: 90.26%
John Edwards: 89.98%
Barack Obama: 89.27%

Biden is the best, followed by Clinton, Obama, Edwards and  then Dodd.

So, I hope I've helped some people see that Clinton does not have a conservative record. That in fact she has been quite liberal. Arguably the most liberal of the realistic candidates in this election.

This is a repost of an earlier diary I had put up , however since there has been a lot of conversation about this recently , I thought it will be apt to post it again with a few additional comments.

I would like to give compliments to Algre and Tigercourse on Daily Kos for doing the hardwork of putting a lot of the information together.

Once again this is about " Voting Records " not " Campaign Rhetoric " . Someone made a comment yesterday that some supporters of another candidate have been making conflicting statements about a particular candidates ideology , while that might be true , it happens for all candidates . Nobody expects everyone to think alike on all issues ( or else we will have fallen into the trap of Groupthink ) and I certainly don't expect anyone's position to be defended by someone else on this issue , but if they choose to that's their call.
                                                                             



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Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records (none / 0)

That's not the common critique of Clinton.


by bruh21 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:28:03 AM EST

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records (none / 0)

I disagree, it is a very common critique of Clinton. "She is the least progressive candidate" is posted at least once a day.


by alipi on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:28:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records (2.00 / 1)

they aren't simply referring to her voting record. its the overall package. which is why i find these arguments misplaced at best. if we get into this game of tic for tac about records it will come down to 'what issue?" by that  i mean what issue did they vote on etc. as i link to in another diary on this sort of approach. the person  brought up gay rights, but then i linked to the following:

http://www.americablog.com/2007/06/bill- clinton-reportedly-told-john-kerry.html

Now, you may go legislation is important, but so is stuff like this for understanding who the candidates are.

or things like this:

http://www.livingwagecampaign.org/index. php?id=10025&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D= 18145&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=1950&am p;am p;cHash=0eb3a3249a

etc.

The principle problem with her analysis is that we are talking about the legislative process and peo repping a particular geographic location. What CLinton can do as a Senate from NY state is going to be more liberal although not by much than a guy representing NC. If you remember last year , one of the principle reasons people with after Lieberman was not merely his voting record, it was his record inthe context of what he said outside of his voting and that he was from a blue state so by comparison it wasn't as impressive.

What I mean by not as impressive is that it takes more courage to cast a vote in a red state that isn't something that your constituency agrees with than to vote in favor of something they do. None of which is covered by doing a simply breakdown of votes. None of which captures the bigger point of what dot he candidates value, etc.


by bruh21 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 01:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An In (2.00 / 1)

Lori, what are you doing?  This is an almost word for word copy of the diary you posted on Aug. 10, with only very minor changes in the text.  I'm a Hillary supporter, but you shouldn't be trying to pass this off as a new diary.  If you thought it bore repeating, you should have acknowledged that it was based on work you had previously posted.

This is inappropriate, and you aren't doing us any favors here.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:30:20 AM EST

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An In (none / 0)

Did you read the last comment , I thought I did that .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:32:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An In (none / 0)

You're right, I didn't see that - my apologies.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 01:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An In (2.00 / 1)

Accepted , not a problem .

You might have a point that it wasn't prominent enough , so I changed the title to include that information in there.

Its all straightened out.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 02:33:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An In (none / 0)

Sorry not the last comment :

The third paragraph to the last :

" This is a repost of an earlier diary I had put up , however since there has been a lot of conversation about this recently , I thought it will be apt to post it again with a few additional comments."

- Maybe I should have made it more prominent , but I made sure I did that .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:33:51 AM EST

I see some spin here: (2.00 / 1)

You say re. progressive punch:

Over time, that will average out to a more accurate portrait. Before the new Senators were included, I believe Clinton ranked 10th. Currently, she is ranked slightly more liberal then Obama with a 92.19% progressive score to his 91.51% (15th place)

You mention her rank after stripping the freshman class senators, but specify the rank of Obama without stripping.

For the benefit of the readers, let me unspin:


Direct link to Senate rankings/score
Rank/Score/Name/State

1             97.87           Whitehouse, Sheldon                     D           RI     

    2          97.86         Cardin, Benjamin L.                 D         MD    

    3          96.79         Brown, Sherrod                 D         OH    

    4          96.64         Reed, Jack                 D         RI    

    5          96.28         Casey, Robert P., Jr.                 D         PA    

    6          95.76         Menendez, Robert                 D         NJ    

    7          95.51         Kennedy, Edward M.                 D         MA    

    8          95.21         Sanders, Bernard                 I         VT    

    9          95.06         Boxer, Barbara                 D         CA    

    10          94.90         Durbin, Richard                 D         IL    

    11          93.06         Levin, Carl                 D         MI    

    12          92.95         Lautenberg, Frank R.                 D         NJ    

    13          92.55         Klobuchar, Amy                 D         MN    

    14          92.19         Clinton, Hillary Rodham                 D         NY    

    15          91.51         Obama, Barack                 D         IL
...
27             86.96           Dodd, Christopher J.                     D           CT
...
31             84.60           Biden, Joseph R., Jr.                     D           DE


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:37:03 AM EST

Re: I see some spin here: (none / 0)

That doesn't seem to contradict what was in the diary


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I would have mentioned (none / 0)

the stripped rankings (i.e. after dropping freshman class) of Obama (he'd be ranked 11th then) and others along with raw rankings, or specified that the rankings being quoted for them were unstripped.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:51:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I Don't Think The Point of This (none / 0)

Is to say Obama isn't Progressive.

The Author can correct me if I'm wrong.

It will be conceded the point you are making for the benefit of drilling down into a separate issue, do you have anything to say about someone who actually thinks Sen. Clinton is insufficiently Progressive?


by Edgar08 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:05:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She has been UNprogressive on foreign policy (2.00 / 1)

since 2001. Better than Edwards and Lieberman, but unprogressive nevertheless.

On domestic issues, she is sufficiently progressive. No question about that. I myself defended Hillary on that aspects many times (I am guessing you may have happened upon progressivepunch.org from one of my comments at  DKos; am i right?)

What I also don't like about the Clintons is that when they had a chance to lead the party, they did not work to build the infrastructure needed to ensure its longterm success. They seemed more interested in building a power clique centered around themselves.

The party decayed.

It took the Dean and the netroots to kick some spine and vigor back into the Democratic party and ensure long term survival (which they're again botching up by capitulating to Bush on important matters such as Iraq and FISA, instead of sticking it to Bush. But the blame there may go to Reid and Pelosi, at least outwardly).


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:15:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know what you don't like about the Clintons (none / 0)

And that remains open to some debate.

What does not remain open to debate at this time, as it has been proven above, is that Sen. Clinton is unprogressive.

It's useless.  It's impossible to engage on a specific topic.  Any attempt to do so just provides another occasion to repeat the usual attacks regardless of topic!

Therefore the discussion ends.


by Edgar08 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you're mistaken. (2.00 / 1)

When you say "progressive" it has to be cumulative and factor in everything: domestic and foreign policy matter. Of course, different people weight these differently, and so it is helpful to delineate here, I think.

"I know what you don't like about the Clintons"

You're mistaken. I still like Bill, and was a strong supporter of his until they took a hard right turn on foreign policy after 2000. I was very supportive of HRC when she was trying to improve healthcare, and always had good respect for her intelligence. I don't think that she is a bad person. In fact, she was my #2 (rough tie with Richardson, both behind Gore) for President 2 years ago. Since then, my views have changed as I have gathered more insights into what goes on behind the scenes.

I express my preferences, but I try to maintain a high level of objectivity on things that are meant to be objective. You've asked if had anything to say about her progressiveness, and I gave you a straight answer.

In fact, is she hadn't supported the war, I'd probably be a strong supporter of her for the nomination (despite the other qualms I have, because the notion of breaking the glass ceiling for women on the presidency weighs quite heavily with me, and I think she is a capable woman).


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 01:14:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All I Know (none / 0)

Is I asked a question about a certain topic and heard the same attack I've heard a million times.

You think Clintons are bad for the party.

I think they're good.


by Edgar08 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 01:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, no (none / 0)

I think they're good for the party where they are. Not as its leaders, as they failed to lead in some critically important ways (while also delivering in some very imporant ways in the past). We can agree to disagree, and please have a pleasant last word, if you wish :)


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 01:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As Leaders Then (2.00 / 1)

I stand by what I said.


by Edgar08 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 02:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're mistaken. (none / 0)

Being that she was from the State of NY where the attacks took place, I believe it would have been very difficult to take a stance against the war.  My guess is her constituents would have not been too pleased by a long shot.  Doubt many would have listened to the facts.


by allblue2008 on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:06:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She has been UNprogressive on foreign policy (none / 0)

While Dean helped the Democratic Party in 2004 We supposedly lost the Presidency, lost 4 senate seats, and 5 house seats.    

We gained in 2006 probably because Americans were fed up with the corruption and perhaps fed up about the war.   I give slightly more credit to the Republican party and in particular the Chimp that leads it than to Dean as to why the Democratic party performed better.


by allblue2008 on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 07:57:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She has been UNprogressive on foreign policy (none / 0)

In 2000 after Bill Clinton.  Gore won.  The House gained 2 seats, Senate Gained 4 seats.  


by allblue2008 on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:18:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would have mentioned (2.00 / 1)

While I see the point you are making , I didn't compare that to Obama's record now , what I actually did was compare their current record , yes you are right I didn't mention that in Obama's case , but I still didn't use that as a point of reference , I used their current tally and if we put that into consideration he will still come in 1 position behind clinton i.e. 10/11 and 14/15


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records (2.00 / 1)

Great diary Lori.  I missed your previous diary on this so thanks very much.


The Facts: Please Read
by Regan on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:02:37 PM EST

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records (none / 0)

Although I visit Mydd almost every day, I had missed this the first time, too, so thanks for re-posting.


by Christopher Walker on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:23:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An In (none / 0)

Lori, even if you did post this earlier, I still think its a good diary. That's twice now that we agree - dear god : )

However, in my view, Obama has done more for the progressive cause in the last few years than Hillary. *Clearly this was not the case in the 90s, and if 1993 Hillary was on the ballot, I would be behind her - however, people change.*


by alipi on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:26:42 PM EST

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - An In (2.00 / 1)

Yeah I am not making the case that Obama is not progressive , my God he is " Very" progressive , I just had to put up this diary again to sort of let people see Clinton's record in relation to others based on the voting records instead of rhetoric .

And yeah its nice to agree , we both are not much different on the issues we are basically just supporting to different candidates thats all . Obama is my second choice by the way and my 1st choice to be VP , he was a tie with Warner but now that Warner looks like he is running for the senate , Obama is a lock for VP for me.

I also tried to make it clear in the diary that it was a repost , I guess Denny Crane didn't read the entire post , but maybe I should have made it more prominent , so I have added it to the diary title.

No doubt Obama has a progressive record , so does Clinton. I will argue that maybe its an issue of Clinton's rhetoric that make people think otherwise.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 12:38:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records who car (2.00 / 2)

Mydder's this is my opinion. Everyone has them so let me express mine before beating the hell out of me here. In my opinion the difference between Obama and Clinton is common sense. I couldn't care less about voting records. I feel that anyone who has voted for the war and doesn't not regret their vote cannot have my vote. That means they cannot learn from their mistakes and they refuse to admit they were wrong. Any yes Obama was against the war that does count. I am a recent veteran and I cannot let go the fact that her vote led to the deaths of over 3,300 Americans and over 100,000 Iraqis. Let us not forget over 25,000 Americans have been injured too. This war has personally affected me unlike most of America and I assume most of the people who post here. One of my friends came home paralyzed. He was only 29 years old and a father of a beautiful little girl. I really respect Mrs. Clinton. I volunteered on her campaign in NY before I left for the Navy. Unfortunately, my sense is that she has no shame about her vote. Last week in front of the VFW she said one thing and in front of another group she said something else. Mr. Biden who sticks to his vote and that's regretable. At least Mr. Edwards, Mr. Richardson, Mr. Gravel, Mr Kucinich and Mr. Dodd see the shame in this war. Yes I am picking on Mrs. Clinton. The problem with Mrs. Clinton is she tries to appear to be tough because she is a woman. For example, the flag burning bill. I am African American, a woman, a mom, employed fulltime, a vet, poor and a fulltime student. I been through a lot worse than most people. I do not care about being tough. I care about what is right. Its military families that bare the scars not her. So what if she gets attacked by the VRWC. How about caring about our vets with no arms or legs. How about finding away out of this mess. Ask that parent who has lost a child how that feels. The sad thing is Americans do not share the sacrifice. Most politicians do not. They only see the war through the lens of politics. One side wants to be right and so what if people died, it's all a volunteer military right! She says if I had known then what she knows now her vote would have been different. If the war was going great and soldiers still died for a war of choice would she still be the ardent cheerleader she was until she decided to run for President. In the end she should have read the NIE. Others did. In my opinion, being against something everyone is for true is leadership. Leadership and courage is something I wish she had in 2003. Finally, its not about voting records. Its about that one vote that decides to send our men and women in to combat that counts. I am biased in my opinion and always will be. I can't help it I am a vet. God bless and for my atheist friends good luck.
John McCain: Drill, Drill, Surge!!!!!
by TennesseeGurl on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 01:47:54 PM EST

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records who car (2.00 / 1)

You know I give you credit for all of what you said and I clearly respect you for it . I can't fault your position , you have clearly laid it out and I give you credit for that .

I put up this post because of those who make the argument that She is not a progressive and in reality She is the most progressive of the top 3 , although Obama is right there on her heels . It is clear you are basing your vote on the war issue not on her record and it is understandable , may be more people will really explain why they are against her instead of hiding under the banner of " she is not a progressive " because that is clearly false.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 02:27:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - (none / 0)

Thanx for respecting my opinion we need more of this on blogs. I am a issues gurl. I just repectfully disagree with the way she sees them.
John McCain: Drill, Drill, Surge!!!!!
by TennesseeGurl on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 02:49:29 PM EST

Re: Candidate's Progressive Voting Records - (none / 0)

Clinton is progressive? May be a "sold out" progressive.

Where is the Universal Healthcare plan, Hillary?

Your friends the Lobbysts and fugitives, is that the progressive ideas you want to bring to the movement?


by win on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 04:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Progressive - Not (none / 0)

If someone helps an old person across the street and then knocks them down and takes their money, do you say afterwards how nice it was for them to help the old person across the street? There is no way after her vote, and continued stance, on the war and taking Rupert Murdoch's money that she qualifies as a progressive.


by Hugh Stearns on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 09:45:41 PM EST

Re: Progressive - Not (none / 0)

They way they work this is to exclude aspects of her 'record'


by bruh21 on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 12:29:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

cherry picker... (none / 0)

link to 2004 nj but not last years.  why is that?  oh, yeah, it doesn't support your argument.

facts are inconvenient things...


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 10:03:35 AM EST


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