Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo

Glenn Greenwald:

"If you haven't already read it, I highly recommend this memo from Samantha Power, a Harvard Professor and top foreign policy advisor to Barack Obama. It is one of the best and potentially most important political documents I have read in some time."

How one responds to this depends, I guess, on how much regard one has for Glenn Greenwald's analysis.  I think his writing and analysis are among the very best on the left.  Therefore, I think those who would try to convince us that Barack Obama's foreign policy statements over the last few weeks sound the death knell for his campaign are mistaken.  He may not win the nomination, but it will not be because his judgements are somehow inferior to his opponents. This part of the debate is far from over and I do believe Obama's point of view (the actual one as opposed to the distorted one that is being spun/misrepresented)  is gaining ground and exposure.

The Greenwald post is linked below along with a link to the Powers memo.  I encourage everyone to actually READ them:


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2 007/08/08/powers/index.html

America is plagued by a self-anointed, highly influential, and insular so-called Foreign Policy Community which spans both political parties. They consider themselves Extremely Serious and have a whole litany of decades-old orthodoxies which one must embrace lest one be declared irresponsible, naive and unserious. Most of these orthodoxies are ossified 50-year-old relics from the Cold War, and the rest are designed to place off limits from debate the question of whether the U.S. should continue to act as an imperial force, ruling the world with its superior military power.

Powers:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 007/08/03/303197.aspx

It was Washington's conventional wisdom that led us into the worst strategic blunder in the history of US foreign policy.  The rush to invade Iraq was a position advocated by not only the Bush Administration, but also by editorial pages, the foreign policy establishment of both parties, and majorities in both houses of Congress.  Those who opposed the war were often labeled weak, inexperienced, and even naïve.

Barack Obama defied conventional wisdom and opposed invading Iraq. He did so at a time when some told him that doing so would doom his political future. He took that risk because he thought it essential that the United States "finish the fight with bin Laden and al Qaeda." He warned that a "dumb war, a rash war" in Iraq would result in an "occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences."



Display:


Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (1.00 / 3)

"Barack Obama defied conventional wisdom and opposed invading Iraq. He did so at a time when some told him that doing so would doom his political future. He took that risk"

Who exactly told him that?  His political future would have been doomed if he did NOT oppose the war.  He never would have won the Democratic primary for US Senator.  There was absolutley no political risk to him in opposing the war.  The only risk would have been in supporting it.


by justinh on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:21:22 AM EST

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

Not so Paul Wellstone was in a tight race with Norm Coleman and everybody said if he voted against the AUF, HE WOULD LOSE THE RACE. hE VOTED FOR IT AND HIS POLL NUMBERS ROSE THAT SHOWED A SIGNIFICANT LEAD OVER COLEMAN.

The tragic death and funeral changed everything.

Also if Obama was in the senate he would have voted against the AUF just like the senior senator from Illinois Dick Durbin did in 2002.


by BDM on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:26:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

Check your demos.  The Minnesota electorate is much different than in Illinois.

Your third line proves my point.


by justinh on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:29:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (3.00 / 0)

Obama was running for a Republican senate seat (retiring Peter Fitzgerald), with a Republican governor at the time.  The Republican party was only just beginning its implosion.  It was hardly a foregone conclusion that 2004 would end up being a blow-out election for Democrats.


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:36:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

How many pro-war candidates was Obama running against in the primary?


by justinh on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:47:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

The only pro-war candidate in Illinois was Dan Hynes, the Illinois State Comptroller.


by Baltimore on Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 11:39:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

thanks for your comment, but i downrated you becaust it is irrelevant to main thrust of the op which is about the CW of the beltway FP community ...i understand that some may want to distract from it by hijacking the diary and going off on a tangent but it's really beside the point


by jg40 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:33:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

I'm not really sure what "downrating" is, but how is this "hijacking" a diary?  You made the claim about Obama, so how is responding to it "irrelevant"?


by justinh on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:39:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

With respect, I uprated the comment not because I agree with it but because others had responded with rebuttal and everybody is entitled to their point of view.  To other readers the whole thread disappears, including the rebuttal.

In general I believe the the 0 rating is misused quite a bit and is meant to be reserved for abusive or trollish behaviour which this clearly was not.  If you don't want your diary hijacked then put the first comment in yourself.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's just not true. (none / 0)

Just look at today's Senate and count the Democrats from Blue states that followed Bush into Iraq.


by chicago jeff on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 09:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's just not true. (none / 0)

Just look at today's Senate and count the Democrats from Blue states that followed Bush into Iraq.


by chicago jeff on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 09:51:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

Claiming to be against the war when you are running for the U.S. Senate in one of the most Democratic states is hardly leadership; though, I applaud Obama for taking that position.

But the question is: When he came to the U.S. Senate, he WAS NOT an outspoken opponent of the war and did not do ANYTHING to force the U.S. Senate to take the measures it is doing today back in 2005-2006.

That is NOT leadership. Plain and Simple!


by American1989 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:22:52 AM EST

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (3.00 / 1)

People are looking at the blueness of Illinois in hindsight.  Obama was running for a Republican senate seat (retiring Peter Fitzgerald), with a Republican governor at the time.  

The Republican party was only just beginning its implosion.  It was hardly a foregone conclusion that 2004 would end up being a blow-out election for Democrats.


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:37:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

IL has always been in Democrats' hands, that trend started with '92 and continued on; Fitzgerald was in that seat, but at that moment, the state was pretty blue; and plus, 2004 was a presidential election year; and running for the primary, Obama HAD to say this, otherwise, he would be out, just as the Democrats have to say they will get out of Iraq by 2009.

Still, I am not discounting his early opposition against the war; once he got elected, he DID NOT DO ANYTHING to encourage the drawdown of the troops.


by American1989 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:40:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (3.00 / 1)

How do you explain then that he was the only Democrat in the field to oppose the war from the beginning?  If they all had to do it, why didn't they?


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:42:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

That's the reason why they lost!


by American1989 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:56:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

Untrue.  Blair Hull probably would have taken the election if it weren't for his divorce file.


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:12:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

Always a Democratic state?
Blagojevich, inaugurated in January, 2003, was the first Democratic governor since 1977.
Sure, Bill Clinton won there, but in 1988 it was Bush, Reagan won it both times, so did Nixon and Ford.
One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:46:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

I did say since '92 if you didn't notice!


by American1989 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:57:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

I was just trying to emphasize that Illinois is the land of Lincoln, it has deep Republican roots, and although the party has fallen to pieces, it wasn't always that way.  

Clinton in '92 is too easy an example.  Sure he won Illinois in 1992, but he also won Georgia and Montana.


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (3.00 / 1)

Obama did oppose the war from the beginning and it was not always wildly popular in Illinois.http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arch ives?p_product=SL&p_theme=sl&p_a ction=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_top doc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F90613207DC7F 98&p_field_direct-0=document_id& p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s _trackval=GooglePM  Please do not trivialize the courage it took for Barack to stand up for us.


by Todd Bennett on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:22:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

Russ Feingold VOTED against the war and was an early outspoken critic; there is not an iota of comparison between him and Obama.


by American1989 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:41:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Glenn Greenwald re: Samantha Power Memo (none / 0)

The relevant issue is not the position he took in 2004 when he ran for the Senate, although at least he was on the right side.  The issue is what he said in 2002, knowing that if the war turned out to be a cakewalk, he would have no shot at running for statewide office two years later.  I think it shows political courage to have taken a stand back then, particularly in the course of running for a state senate seat where it was hardly necessary to take a vocal stance on the war at all.

Has Obama been cautious on the war since being elected to the Senate?  Absolutely.  We've had a real shortage of leaders in that body.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:06:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Quote from Greenwald (3.00 / 2)

This was vividly illustrated by the sharpest exchange from last night's debate, where both Hillary Clinton and Chris Dodd excoriated Obama for his comments on Pakistan, not on the ground that Obama's statements were wrong on the merits (i.e, not that we should avoid military action inside Pakistan under those circumstances), but instead on the ground that he committed the sin of actually discussing with the American people what our foreign policy would be.


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:41:53 AM EST

Re: Quote from Greenwald (3.00 / 1)

This is the issue I want to see Obama get some mileage out of.  We have been playing secret squirrel politics too long and Hillary obviously wants to keep it that way.  Obama and Edwards vs Clinton, Biden and Dodd.  The new vs the old.

We all want to trust that our leaders have are planning bold strokes in secret with cunning intelligence and sober advice.  Well, the Bush administration sucked all the juice out of that lemon.  I am not suggesting we don't need classified information or secret diplomacy, but the notion that the electorate must take the policies of their president on trust should change, and soon.  It is clear where Hillary stands on this, and not just on foreign policy.  Health care too.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 06:00:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice thing about the (none / 0)

leftblogs is that I am reassured about (almost) all our candidates. Greenwald is amazing; that he supports Obama (though I don't know if officially, he always has a good word for him) tells me that my concerns are probably overblow. And that Daou (and one or two of my favorite Kossacks) supports Clinton, likewise. They may not be my candidates, but intelligent, informed, committed progressives support them; they're not as bad as I fear.


by BingoL on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:00:21 PM EST

Power attacks a straw man (none / 0)

Samantha Power's memo makes three points about conventional wisdom:

Diplomacy - America should talk with its adversaries, and should not punish nations by not talking.

Terrorist Sanctuaries - America should attack certain Al Qaeda targets regardless of International law.

Nuclear Attacks on Terrorist Targets - America should not use nuclear weapons to kill single individuals.

The first, diplomacy, is attacking the Bush position, every Democratic candidate agrees that we should have high level talks with our adversaries. The second, sanctuaries, uses rhetorical sleight of hand to erect a straw man. No American politician thinks we should not strike Bin Laden if we find him and the country he is in is protecting him. The problem is most people do not believe Pakistan is protecting Bin Laden, only Obama makes this claim. The third point, using nuclear weapons to target individuals in the middle of an innocent civilian population, is an absurd hypothetical that no presidential candidate should entertain.

None of her caricatures are Democratic positions, and most aren't even Republican positions, so they are no-ones conventional wisdom. This memo is terribly dishonest, and it surprises me to see a usually smart commentator like Greenwald embrace it.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 04:12:34 PM EST

Josh Marshall - Talking Points Memo (3.00 / 4)

Josh Marshall has a post out also calling the controversy around Obama's comments contrived:

And the truth is that I think Obama's actual words are so clearly unobjectionable that this is all Kabuki theater of a particularly strained and disingenuous sort. All Obama said was that if we have actionable intelligence about the whereabouts of high-value al Qaeda targets in Pakistan, and Pakistan won't act, we will act.

Clearly, no Republican can quibble with this. They're on the record for invading countries because they might become dangers to us at some point in the future. They're hardly in a position to disagree with Obama if he says we'll hunt down people who committed mass casualty terror attacks within our borders. And I'm not sure Democrats are in much of a position to do so either.

The unspoken truth here, I suspect, is that Obama has struck on the central folly of our post-9/11 counter-terrorism defense policy -- strike hard where they aren't and go easy where they are. I think everyone can see this. But Obama got there first. So they need to attack him for saying it.


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 04:33:58 PM EST

On what planet? (none / 0)

The repugs at the recent debate said exactly the same things about him that Hillary Clinton said--they called him "naive."

It was very strange to hear them parroting Hillary Clinton, but I guess I shouldn't be thatsurprised.


by Mystylplx on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:08:59 PM EST

I was for Edwards until Obama speech (none / 0)

Obama Speech is so right on and was gutsy to say it.

It is so filled with commonsense that I dont understand why the blogosphere dont praise it.

In 2005,  Rumsfeld stop the mission against an AlQueda leadership meeting in deference to Musharaff who had a truce w/ them.

Seriously why would you not want to  get rid  once and for all a terrorists group who still aims to kill you and wreak havoc whether Musharaff agrees or not.

Musharaff then can feign anger against US but at least the leadership is gone which means no more brains and funding for the foreign fighters in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and will take time for them to regroup.


by jasmine on Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 09:03:04 AM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.