Paul Hogarth wrote [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/6/102513/7704, "a smear piece on Hillary Clinton's appearance at YKOS.'"]. To his dismay, many non-Clinton fans who actually attended the event came to Senator's defense and have torn apart this worst hit piece.
People are still debating on dailykos, I'm attaching a couple of eyewitnesses' accounts for your entertainment...
Sometimes, we also need to peel off the 'left wing noise machine' and listent to what bloggers are really saying!!
Happy Days -
I was there, and Clinton was very impressive in the breakout session before the debate. I'm an active Obama supporter who managed to see both the Clinton and Obama breakouts.While I will do everything I can to see that Obama is our nominee, I find all of the Hillary-bashing very disappointing.
Your characterization of her answers to your questions is unfair and reflects the bias you went into the room with.
For example, on the Telecommunications Act she candidly admitted that it was not something she was well-versed on and that she would look into it more. She did refer to the fact that Al Gore was actively involved in shaping the bill on behalf of the administration.
But in any case, I think all of the Hillary-bashing is undeserved and unproductive. She has worked all her life to make this a better country and world and deserves more credit and respect.
Kimberley -
I was there
And, as a vocal Clinton critic, I can tell you she most certainly didn't just "survive" the convention.
She did well. Well enough to make me endorse her candidacy? No. But then none of them have blown my skirt up yet.
The main thing was to make sure that if she becomes our nominee (and I still believe she will) that I could cast a vote for her without being skeeved out. I can.She's smart. She is thoughtful. She's a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. And she is onto the right-wing.To use her words as it pertains to her performance as a Democrat, "I support what you do, well not all of it."
Face it, she's a heavy-hitter. She's the one to beat - still - on this field of contenders.She didn't win my heart but she eased my mind, a lot
Bendygirl -
I was there
And I met a number of Hillary supporters when I registered people. Overwhelmingly, the Dkos community supports Edwards, it's very obvious, however, Hillary did get a couple of standing o's, as did most of the field.Hillary also got the biggest hiss of all the candidates and I have to give her credit for how she handled that. I didn't like her point, still thinks it's ridiculous, but she also didn't back down from it.
I got to go to the Dodd break out and I'm seriously leaning Dodd now. I haven't looked at anyone since I decided against Edwards. Seeing Dodd up there and even hearing Richardson (by far his best performance yet, but a very un-even campaigner and speaker), I could even be persuaded into his court.
AlisaR -
I was really impressed by her (21+ / 0-)
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I talked with her as we were talking from the breakout to the plenary and she was SO well informed on Academic Freedom and really engaged. I think she has more strengths than you are acknowledging. Every single candidate has weaknesses--it is a question of picking which weaknesses are the least problematic. I'm not at all sure where I'm going (unless Gore enters), but I don't think there is an obvious choice, and I think the lack of consensus is evidence of the fact that every candidate has difficulties.Say all you want about Bill Clinton's triangulation--he was still the best president of my lifetime and I'd rather have a triangulator who gets things done than a perfect candidate who won't win. (I'm not saying the others can't win, but I'm not sure, and, frankly, I'd like Obama to have a little more experience under his belt--I wish he'd run for governor first.)
Delaware Dem -
Actually, it has enhanced the prospect that she will be nominated, in my view.Everyone I talked to was impressed by her, and while she may not win their primary vote, she won their general election vote and their support during the general election campaign.
binkaroni -
include me as one who came away impressed
Goldberry -
Completely disagree (22+ / 0-)
I attended her breakout session. I got to ask a question. Her answers were well informed, multi-part and policy driven. This may not work for you but it was what I was looking for.
Before Saturday afternoon, I was an Edwards supporter. I was looking forward to hear him and hoped that the forum would give him the opportunity that the MSM has denied him. But I found that he pandered to the lowest common denominator among bloggers and went for the "Drug companies are bad! Corporations are bad!" money shots. And let us be clear about this, he is just as guilty as anyone else on that stage of taking campaign contributions from groups who some of us would regard as less than savory. Not only that, but his wife wouldn't be alive today without the dedicated contributions of the researchers in the drug industry. So I found him to be hypocritical at best and contemptuous of us at worst. He studied us, found our trigger words and used them shamelessly but I didn't learn one thing about his policies.
Obama was hardly better.
At least Hillary was honest.
Everyone chooses their candidates in different ways. I have a list of qualities that I check off and the one with the most check marks win. Yes, there is an element of gut feeling as well but I can't let it govern me. That's what wingers do and look what we ended up with.
By my grading system of intelligence, experience, vision, and courage (among other things), Hillary is only lacking in the last category. And I have to hand it to her, she did not buckle even when we booed her. That says a lot.
She has a very good chance of winning SuperDuper Tuesday. Don't count her out.
(Your mileage may vary)
majcmb1 -
I Was Impressed By Sen. Clinton Especially
her forceful reminder (in the context of lessons learned from her failed efforts to change healthcare policy) that in addition to a "Plan" you must have a "Political Strategy" to bring the country (including its institutions) along with you.I'm still not committed but she may be offering the incremental transition we'll need (barring some social or economic cataclysm). Both Obama and Edwards have the rhetorical skills to sway voters but I'm not sure they have the institutional clout/ access/alliances that will be required to wrench control of the media (for example) from the corporatists.
If our nominee takes over with less than a super-majority of Progressives (highly unlikely), his/her Change Agenda will face awesome obstacles (likely including significant numbers of Blue Dogs). Sen. Clinton's not my first choice yet but she may be, as a practical matter, our path to the Progressive Congressional majority we need
I sat right in front of Paul, actually. I thought that for the most part, Hillary was impressive in the break-out session. I was disappointed that she blamed the Telecommunications act on Al Gore, but I would be interested to talk to Al about it as well. If he truly was the architect, I have a hard time believing that Murdoch buying the Wall Street Journal was not the end goal. As far as Hillary goes, I left the conference fully confident - for the first time - that if Hillary got the nomination that I would aggressively campaign for her.Schwede -
I think she did great in the breakout session. My wife is a member of the NEA so I don't give a rat's ass if it was a plant. I liked her answer, it showed me that she had alot to say about it. I liked most of Hillary's responses and she came across as genuine, and stated her positions even if ALL of us don't like every single thing she said. Paul, you do not speak for all bloggers, especially this one. I was standing right behind you and even I couldn't understand where you said you were from. I haven't heard of you or Beyond Chron. But I guess we all have now, eh ?Bill in Portland Maine -
Endangered her nomination? I think not. Couple points on which I take issue. First: Incredibly, she rationalized her refusal by saying that lobbyists "represent real Americans – nurses, social workers, and they represent corporations who employ a lot of people." This is incorrect. She said that not all lobbyists are big pharma and big oil and big whatever. She's actually correct that there are many lobbying groups that represent "real American interests." I'm not defending her overall answer, but you've misrepresented that statement she made. Second, my partner and I were in the breakout session, and when she got done with her answer on education, our jaws were on the floor. Yes, her answer was long and we can debate the appropriateness of that all day, but her knowledge and ideas and the way she presented that knowledge and those ideas were great. She knew---and knows---her stuff. Third, I take issue with this: Hillary lost even further credibility when she said that we are now safer than before September 11th. My recollection is that she was saying that some things have improved in terms of security. I never heard her make a blanket statement that we're safer overall. Although when she mentioned taking shoes off at the airport as one example, I admit I rolled my eyes. But I agree with her that some things are being done better in terms of national security. Sadly, a lot more aren't. Finally, I wouldn't call the reception to Hillary "tame." That's actually a swipe at the people who attended. We weren't tame...we were respectful and serious toward her. We were listening. We let her---and all the candidates---know in no uncertain terms when we agreed and when we disagreed. But we weren't puppy dogs wagging our tails. As for your question at the breakout session, good lord, kid...you asked her four questions in one, which I thought was a bit rude. In fact, there was an audible groan throughout the room when you kept piling one question on top of the other. Hillary managed to answer all of them without batting an eye. I didn't agree with all of her answers, but I give her credit for keeping track of all four issues you brought up. After the breakout session, the consensus seemed to be: "Wow, she's pretty good, and damn smart." So my opinion is that YearlyKos didn't endanger anyone except the Republicans.Paul Hogarth, clearly and loudly, these bloggers have a message for you 'Stop the smear, you do NOT speak for me, you have no right to speak for the entire blogsphere!'. We are now seeing the frantic Hillary bashing after her excellent showing at YKOS. Why? The reason is simple. When people get a chance to see Hillary, they always come away impressed. They are jealous because their own candidates have no substance and everything is about empty sloganeering. To tear down Hillary, those haters have only one foxnews trick left, they are spinning like a top to try to create a false narrative on this site that bloggers hate Hillary. Fortunately, bloggers are not dumb and they are speaking out against these kind of cheap shot. This is getting amusing everyday! UPDATE: I just added Scout Finch and Schwede 's account of his/her recount. Please continue to add more eyewitnesses' account here, and I will update. We counter those hit pieces with FACTS, not FANTASY. Thanks, Bill in Portland Maine, I just added his eyewitness account. He is still undecided at the moment. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, HILLARY FANS. WE ARE STILL THE MINORITY HERE, BUT WE ARE FIGHTING EVERYDAY!!
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