What's the Sphere Waiting For?

John Edwards gave the speech of everyone's life the other day, a masterpiece of progressive populism, a verbal grenade tossed at the Establishment. The key line should be tattooed on Rahm Emanuel's face: "We cannot replace a group of corporate Republicans with a group of corporate Democrats, just swapping the Washington insiders of one party for the Washington insiders of the other." RTWT.

Not every pol could credibly deliver that speech. Few could. Only one top-tier contender could. It's the speech Edwards has been working toward since--well, perhaps since he was growing up working class in a struggling mill town, probably since he was an attorney fighting violent crime by corporations, certainly since he was making economic inequality the focus of his last campaign.

Edwards earned the ability to deliver that speech by preaching populism before populism was cool, by never taking a cent from K-Street, by fighting HMOs when he was a Senator, by helping to make poverty a big issue again, by breaking free from the Beltway, by casting his lot with unions, and, above all, by advocating positions that would give power to people at the expense of rich people and corporations. You can't say these words unless you have policies to back them up. The system, he said, is corrupt:


It's controlled by big corporations, the lobbyists they hire to protect their bottom line and the politicians who curry their favor and carry their water. And it's perpetuated by a media that too often fawns over the establishment, but fails to seriously cover the challenges we face or the solutions being proposed. This is the game of American politics and in this game, the interests of regular Americans don't stand a chance.

Real change starts with being honest -- the system in Washington is rigged and our government is broken. It's rigged by greedy corporate powers to protect corporate profits. It's rigged by the very wealthy to ensure they become even wealthier. At the end of the day, it's rigged by all those who benefit from the established order of things. For them, more of the same means more money and more power. They'll do anything they can to keep things just the way they are -- not for the country, but for themselves.

In short, Edwards gave a speech saying exactly what progressives want pols to say. Most people in the sphere were thrilled. Ivan, a Gore supporter, wrote a Daily Kos diary on the speech and it shot up the rec list, where it co-existed for most of the day with a diary on the same subject by Edwards blogger Tracy Joan: a rare twofer. You could feel the buzz.

But the reaction from the big blogs was mixed, at best. The only blogger with a sizable platform to praise the speech was Matt Yglesias. Taylor Marsh and Open Left's Brklyn Girl objected to Edwards's criticism of Hillary, Marsh because it reminded her of the GOP and Brooklyngirl because it reminded her of Nader. Hmm. As if the Clintons' corporate-kissing were delightful and should be beyond criticism. Note to Marsh: the Lincoln bedroom trangressions were exaggerrated but not fabricated by the rightwing. If progressive bloggers want the next president to be no less plutocratic than Bill Clinton, then they should say so. Oliver Willis complained that Edwards waited till he was behind (God forbid) to give this speech. Willis seems not to know that Edwards has been banging essentially this same drum for years and gave a very similar speech in June. Like some conventional journalist, Willis is hanging on the national horserace.

The reaction of big bloggers to JRE's sublime speech points to a larger issue: the failure, or slowness, of progressive bloggers to line up behind what Striling Newberry calls the "essentially progressive major candidate." Edwards isn't the only option for progressives--a case can be made for one or two others--but he increasingly looks like the best option, a once-in-a-generation combination of electoral and ideological strength that shouldn't be bypassed without a good reason.

Determining the relative progressivism of the candidates isn't a science, but conclusions can be made, differences discerned. Let's look at two vital issues: health care and climate change. Edwards is the only viable candidate to offer both a plan for universal health insurance and a bold plan on climate change. And he alone is prepared to give these issues the priority they deserve. Listen to the Nation.

The Democratic debate has been driven by the populism of John Edwards's "two Americas" rhetoric, as well as the boldness of his proposals on healthcare and energy...Only Edwards has challenged the Democratic fetish about balanced budgets, arguing that moving to new energy and providing healthcare are more important.

Yet the only big or biggish (subjective, I realize) blogger to have endorsed Edwards is The General. Chris Bowers declared himself a "staunch Edwards supporter" but retracted his endorsement without offering a reason. David Sirota often praises JRE but is holding off on an endorsement. Amanda Marcotte went to work for Edwards but hasn't endorsed him. None of the Daily Kos frontpagers has endorsed a candidate.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with being undecided--I remained undecided through the last election--but the paucity of endorsements tells me that bloggers are reluctant to take sides. Chris Bowers agrees. In a typically thoughtful post, he cited three reasons why he hasn't endorsed: the presence of netroots handlers on the campaigns (who are his friends), a desire for access to the campaigns, the lack of consensus among readers, to whom he's accountable. His reasons are understandable--but not compelling. If his readers are split, then he can't endorse? Come on. Lead. And if you're not doing something for fear of straining your relationships with people in power, friends or not, it's time to reevaluate your priorities.

Am I being too harsh? Maybe bloggers are doing what a lot of progressives are doing: waiting to make sure Gore doesn't run. I wrote a Kos diary a while ago calling on big bloggers to get off the fence. It prompted mostly indignation, but Miss Laura of Daily Kos made an interesting comment.

The fact that tons of people will be reading, judging, and often taking violent exception to your choice means you're going to think it through a little more carefully. Am I really prepared to have this conversation with hundreds or thousands of people who will feel free to use it to attack every single thing I say? Note that here I'm saying something deeper than "I have a preference but don't want to say" - I'm saying that knowledge of the meatgrinder my preference would be put through is making me extra extra careful in my choices.

Fair enough, but surely Miss Laura overstates the awfulness of Kossacks. The vast majority of us would accept and even respect a thoughtful, well-reasoned endorsement. Would a few jerks use the endorsement to attack her? Of course. Deal with it. Such is the price of having a prominent platform.

Blogs shouldn't try to force consensus; nor, though, should they remain neutral for neutrality's sake. Why does this matter? Because, for one thing, if progressive positions and framing don't win candidates progressive support, there will be less incentive to run left. And Edwards or Obama will likely need a push from the netroots to beat Hillary: make no mistake, to remain neutral, whether you're a union or a progressive blog, is to help Hillary. It's odd to see elite bloggers fretting about Hillary's lead at the same time that they refuse to get behind an opposing candidate. And the sphere itself will suffer if it fails to give explicit support to a candidate, or candidates. There's strength in consensus, obviously. A progressive sphere that doesn't back a progressive candidate is less influential than it could and should be.


Poll
Should bloggers endorse?
Yes
No
Who Cares?

Votes: 31
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


I'd love to know (2.00 / 7)

people's thoughts on the question of blogger endorsements.


by david mizner on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:16:15 PM EST

Re: I'd love to know (2.00 / 6)

I think there are a lot of in the closet Edwards supporters in high places.  They are scared to come out.


by jsamuel on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:19:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mine was huge (2.00 / 3)

Dodd is rocketing now.

snark.


by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:20:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mine was huge (2.00 / 4)

As for the question, absolutely they should endorse if they support a candidate.

I think this is especially so if a blogger can demonstrate the ability to be intelligible and objective (within reason) when discussing the race anyway.

I like to think I can do that. I like to think everyone can.


by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:21:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

firefighters knew BTD is a bad-ass (2.00 / 5)

Good work scoring that endorsement for Dodd...


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The best thing about BTD's (none / 0)

choice of Dodd is that he'll have a couple more opportunities to endorse after Dodd gets tired of seeing his position at the bottom of the polls. Kind of like your description of what happens at the Iowa caucuses.
by oculus on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BTD (2.00 / 6)

You and I have had our differences, but I have to say, I respect your willingness to endorse. It hasn't stopped you from praising other candidates, and people still seem to listen to you.


by david mizner on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:25:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mine was huge (2.00 / 4)

At least you chose one.

I have no problem with you choosing or your choice.

Dodd is very good on the issues.   I prefer Edwards, but I also like Dodd's positions.  If Edwards were not in the race, I would seriously consider Dodd.

More importantly, you got out there and, in Teddy Roosevelt's words, "entered the arena."


by TomP on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd love to know (2.00 / 3)

Several thoughts.

a) I am againt them  because I want bloggers to hold all candidates' feet to the fire.

b) That being said, I think a different dynamic is at play. Big Tent Democrat in a post over at Talk Left sums it up as a focus on the horserace over issues. If they are more concerned with the horserace than issue, then, of course, who ever is the most progressive or not, will not matter. Why should it if your goal is strategery rather than the substance of what a candidate is saying?

b) I think the issue for bloggers is not objectivity at this point. At least amongst the establishment bloggers, the goal is, well, to be a part of the establishment. To be legitimate. Legitimacy isn't per se bad thing. But it can be, if it results in caution for fear of pissing of whoever is the eventual nominee.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:24:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd love to know (2.00 / 2)

I don't see what you can't hold someone's feet to the fire if you've endorsed. Did you ever notice the weight given Sirota's praise of Obama, in part because he's seen as Edwards supporter?

Look, I understand the reluctance of bloggers to endorse. If, say, Bowers endorses Edwards, then some of what he writes will be seen through the prism of his endorsement, but ultimately what he writes will be judged on its merits.

If Bowers doesn't want Hillary to be the nominee, then the most powerful thing he can do is to put his name and reputation behind one of her opponents. It takes a little bit of courage--not a lot but some.


by david mizner on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:54:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd love to know (none / 0)

it was easy for them to have courage when they had nothing to lose. now, maybe with the whole "profesionalization" of bloggers, maybe he think he does. its not disparagement to point out that this is why it maybe harder. it doesnt mean they won't come to it. it does mean that it will require a bit more effort than in the goold old days.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:08:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards is smearing the Democratic party (none / 0)

by legitimizing the phrase "Corporate Democrat" for his selfish gain.

As such his record while in the senate was quite "centrist". Show me three votes where Hillary Clinton and Edwards differed during 2001-2004 when they shared the senate that shows he is less "Corporate" than her?

I don't support Hillary or Edwards for the nomination, because both were busy hawking the war until it began, but I ask you to show me the record to even logically justify this selfish tactic/rhetoric by Edwards.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 02:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Selfish gain??? (2.00 / 2)

Edwards don't need Universal Healthcare. We do. Or more specifically. I do. Edwards don't have to do ANYTHING at all. Except that he's a workaholic. I think that's exactly what we need the next 8 eight years...a complete anthesis to Bush....a progressive workaholic, working for the people because, he won't be positioning himself to get rich after his presidency is over.  He did that all on his own already, which is probably what the corporate media & the corporate democrats HATE the most. They can't pull his financial strings. He doesn't really need them. But we, need him.


It's an election, not an auction.
by cosbo on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 02:26:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Presidential candidates should NOT spin labels (none / 0)

on fellow candidates.

He should instead stick to arguing on the merits of his plans vis-a-vis his rivals'.

If you want labels, well, it isn't hard. And I have boatloads of evidence to back the labels too.


Neocon Warmongering Democrats (NWD) .

Edwards and Hillary were both playing Neocon Democrats when they were hawking the war all the way until it began.

Proof:

  1. Neocon Warmongering Democrat John Edwards
  2. Neocon Warmongering Democrat Hillary Clinton

How does being labeled feel?


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 03:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your obsession (none / 0)

is so apparent.  Bizarre comments.

When Gore endorses Edwards, I will smile.  


by TomP on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:14:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

asdf (none / 0)

One possible explanation of the phoneyness seen in your partcipation around here are the inherent contradictions in supporting a deeply flawed candidate like John Edwards.

"When Gore endorses Edwards, I will smile."

There ISN'T a very good chance that Gore will endorse Edwards, as Gore likely figured out what Edwards is made of when Edwards was playing a Neocon warmongering Democrat in co-sponsoring and hawking the war all the way until it began, and then through 2004, before shifting sails 180° at an opportune moment.

My first exposure to Edwards was that of a town hall meeting shown on TV in late 2003 where he insisted that voting for the IWR and invading Iraq was the "right thing to do."


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selfish gain??? (none / 0)

Edwards a "workaholic"?

Link, please.


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow... you continue to be not that bright (none / 0)

you're setting a record for longevity in dumb.


by DrFrankLives on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 02:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party (none / 0)

If the Democratic Party does something stupid, it should be called out.

If you want a homogenous party that doesn't disagree on anything, then become a Republican.

If some Democrats are sold out to the highest bidder, then they are as filthy as the Republicans are.

You know what you call people who can say that?  "PRINCIPLED."


by OE on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 02:55:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party (2.00 / 1)

That's been my same concern about Edwards.  And now he's pushing a much more progressive agenda that "coincidentally" provides a niche to run for President.

However, I'm nevertheless leaning toward Edwards, mostly because he'd have a very difficult time going back on the progressive platform he's laid out.

(You've said that Edwards is "selfish," but what politician isn't?)


by justinh on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 03:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party (none / 0)

i see- well good luck with alll that convuluted thinking. by the- way- like i asked of the lincoln bed room story- is he room on the issue? i mean you talk and talk and talk and frankly talk- but thats the core question


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Factor in NY v. NC (none / 0)

What's center-right in NY can be about as far left as you can pull the NC electorate.

Hillary has been a paragon of centrist caution from one of the safest blue states in the country.  She's exactly the sort of Dem who needs a primary challenger when the time comes.


by RT on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:12:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party (2.00 / 1)

I am posting material which shows that Edwards' record doesn't distinguish him as being against free trade agreements. Voting record (all issues) comparison also included for careful perusal by readers and other considering endorsements.


Barack Obama on Free Trade

   *  Reinvest in communities that are burdened by globalization. (Jun 2007)
    * Insist on labor and human rights standards for China trade. (Jul 2004)
    * Fair trade should have tangible benefits for US. (Jun 2004)
    * Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
    * Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)


John Edwards on Free Trade

   * We need smart trade, not fair trade vs. free trade. (Feb 2007)
    * Globalization means more education needed for success. (Feb 2007)
    * Renegotiate NAFTA rather than cancel it. (Feb 2004)
    * Require labor and environmental standards plus right-to-know. (Jan 2004)
    * Against NAFTA, against Chile trade, against Singapore trade. (Jan 2004)
    * Level the playing field for American workers. (Nov 2003)
    * I supported steel tariffs, but now ease off. (Sep 2003)
    * National venture capital fund for those hurt by trade. (Sep 2003)
    * Against Fast Track--not enough for US workers. (Jul 2003)
    * Voted NO on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)
    * Voted NO on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)
    * Voted YES on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)
    * Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
    * Voted YES on removing common goods from national security export rules. (Sep 2001)
    * Voted YES on permanent normal trade relations with China. (Sep 2000)
    * Voted NO on expanding trade to the third world. (May 2000)
    * Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record. (Dec 2002)



Hillary Clinton on Free Trade

   *  End tax breaks for outsourcing jobs. (Jun 2007)
    * Globalization should not substitute for humanization. (Jun 1999)
    * Supports MFN for China, despite concerns over human rights. (Oct 2000)
      Voting Record
    * Voted against CAFTA despite Bill Clinton's pushing NAFTA. (Oct 2005)
    * Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)

   * Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)

   * Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)
    * Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)
    * Voted NO on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)
    * Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
    * Voted YES on removing common goods from national security export rules. (Sep 2001)
    * Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record. (Dec 2002)

~~

Please see the following extensive and exhaustive comparisons between the voting records of:

  • Edwards and Hillary (2001-2004)
  • Obama and Hillary (2005-2006)
by Daily Kos poster DemocraticLuntz.


1. Hillary Clinton vs. John Edwards: Voting Records Part 1

2. Hillary Clinton v. John Edwards: Voting Records Part 2

3. Hillary Clinton v. John Edwards Part 3 (2003-2004)

4. Hillary Clinton vs. Barack Obama Part 1 (2005)

5. Hillary Clinton vs. Barack Obama Part 2 (2006)



Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 05:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party (2.00 / 1)

This is classic hid the ball. Your thesis was that Edwards wasn't interest in corporate dems which he used in relationship to taking money from corporate America, which he has not taken. When challenged, you bring up free trade. You may have a point on free trade as to whether he is the most progressive candidate, BUT, to use that in the context of his specific point about the influence of money in DC and the influence of corporate America directly on our represents is well- misdirection. You seem to think you are 'openning' our eyes regarding Edwards. Only really did , at least for me, was convince me you have no legitimate response to the particulars of what he was saying.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:08:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Show me where Edwards defined (none / 0)

"Corporate Democrat". He should define it, and also make clear which ones of his Opponents he is implicating as being "Corporate Democrats", name by name.

Your thesis was that Edwards wasn't interest in corporate dems which he used in relationship to taking money from corporate America, which he has not taken.

My only thesis above was that Edwards legitimizing the phrase "Corporate Democrat" amounts to smearing the Democratic party and his opponents.

Yes, from what I can tell he doesn't money from lobbyist directly. But...

Edwards campaign did take money (large sums, I believe) from hedge fund employees. He may have returned his Q2 funds from Fortress etc once his involvement with the hedge fund Fortress became public, but I haven't seen if he did the same thing with  Q1 funds from Fortress and other hedge funds. Second, he has refused to disclose the full financial details of his non-profits. I want to see if the donors for that were from Fortress and other corporations. Third, he is presumably drawing a lot of money from trial lawyers. I have nothing against lawyers and trial lawyers, but why should their support be considered any purer than that from other groups? Given these questions, I don't think that Edwards' fundraising is as pure and wonderful as he may want others to believe.

When challenged, you bring up free trade.

I asked David at DKos to explain, and he came back with "free" trade comparisons. I posted a response from there as it is useful here as well.

Besides, why do you imply that he was only talking about campaign contributions when he is using the term "Corporate Democrat?"

He was surely talking about trade. Did you read the speech:


"Trade policy is all about corporate profits.."

"by requiring that every new trade deal puts workers and wages first.

"You seem to think you are 'openning' our eyes regarding Edwards. Only really did , at least for me, was convince me you have no legitimate response to the particulars of what he was saying."

Edwards employs shifty rhetoric on trade and minimum wage etc, when his record while in the senate was "centrist" on trade, and not different from any Democrat (just about) on min. wage.

This new smear "Corporate Democrat" is fine for making blog posts on by diarists, but not fine for a Democratic Presidential candidate to be employing to smear fellow-Democrats and fellow-Dem candidates on the campaign.

Mike Huckabee, a populist (apparently), could very well take Edwards' smears using this stupid label and make ads of them in the general election to hurt the eventual Democratic nominee.

Edwards needs to back off using labels to attacks Dems. He should argue based on the merits of plans and proposals of his vs those of his primary race competition. He should also be either consistent with his past record, or explain clearly and in detail why, if and when his rhetoric doesn't match his record.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 07:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Show me where Edwards defined (2.00 / 3)

He did define it. You simply ignore what he said in favor of your agenda. Like I said, you may have a point, but a) I would have to look it up and b) that point clearly has nothing do with what he said in the speech. Your giving a length disertation about how you want to push a square peg into a circle ain't going to change that.

And it's not a smear against the Democratic party. He didn't say Democratic Party. He said modified the word Democrat with a specific word. Not to get into language choice, but your manipulation here in terms of the use of language is odd. He's talking about a certain subset of Democrats, which by definition means he's not talking about all Democrats. Your argument fails on simple logic, but I doubt you will admit to that.

The truth is not a smear. There is a habit on this site lately to confuse what a smear is. A smear is a statement that is either untrue or substantiately untrue or misleading or something of that nature. Saying that there is too much money in DC, and that the Democrats who are taking that money shouldn't be doing so- isn't a smear. It's a fact. If our winning elections means we must surrender reality to your delusion- well, I guess I am going to have to be accused of smearing a lot when it somes to the issue of money's influence in DC.

This isn't the equivalent of Obama comparing some amorphous group of Democrats to being anti religious because the statement Obama was making was factually false in terms of the Democrats in Washington. The statement regarding some Democrats being influenced by corporate interest- including Biden with the credit card companies- is not.

By the way, it's not lost of me that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you try to attack Edwards for not quite meaing what he say by bringing up extraneous material to the speech he gave, but then try to flip to say that the use of the label alone is offensive to all Democrats based on the speech he gave. You are saying he didn't go far enough, but then he goes too far. Make up your mind without engage in the now rather tired he doesn't mean what he says. Your thesis, the implicit one, is not proven by what he says and his actions on the subject of lobby money, for example.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 07:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

boatload of BS (none / 0)

Edwards said:


The choice for our party could not be more clear. We cannot replace a group of corporate Republicans with a group of corporate Democrats, just swapping the Washington insiders of one party for the Washington insiders of the other.

That is smear of the Democratic party and legitimization of the bad label on the Democratic party.

When Edwards was in Washington, many of his votes, such as in favor of China MFN, can be seen as an "insider" type of vote.

His entire non-stop hawking of the neocon Iraq war from 2002 to till 2004 smacks of playing toady to the war-mongers in the Washington establishment. See here How Edwards sold the war.

Your hits at me have no basis in reality, but they do in your agenda.

I want the entire public record of our candidates to be out there and I want everyone to get to know that record while making their decisions. Then, there would be no need for me to even talk about the 2008 election. I oppose obfuscation, and support facts being made available to everyone. My long comment with freetrade and voting record comparison is an objective compilation, encouraging readers to explore and empowere themselves with information instead of accepting spins from either the candidates or their supporters such as yourself.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 08:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: boatload of BS (2.00 / 2)

Saying "that's a smear" doesn't make it so.

Today, in another diary, I saw something I want to repeat to cut through the fakeness of your logic or lack there of.

In the case there, the poster retorted quite correctly that the following isn't logical. "Far right wing nutcase says X. X is true. Dem labels X a smear although X is true. Dem says X. Dem according your logic is now smearing although X is true, and in fact, you would now label X false."

Here, the question is only whether some Dems are indeed taking corporate money. You can't  argue that isn't true. so you left to fake, as you are doing here, that the truth is actually a smear. Once more having commit an illogical argument you compound your mistake by taking some Democrats to mean all. I am not going to repeat this post because I can't handle your illogical thinking.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 08:50:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: boatload of BS (2.00 / 1)

Oh, and one othere reason I am not wasting time with you- slipping in yet more irrelevant points to what you first claimed. You can't defend that orignal point so you keep trying to slip in additional shit. Nice try though.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 08:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're the one faking by trying to equate, (none / 0)

speciously the following two:

A. Dems are taking some money from corporations
B. Dems are Corporate Dems.

and to imply that that's all that Edwards meant.

The truth is Edwards was implying far more with his "Corporate Democrats" smear. It's clear from his speech, as I blockquoted.

Secondly, Dems do have to some corporate money at GE time to beat the Republicans in the current system. I am sure Edwards didn't oppose Kerry/Edwards campaign taking corporate money for the general election.

Third, Edwards was taking money from individual with questionable connections such as hedge funds.

Fourth, I actually HATE the influences that various people including corporations and other special interest groups (such as neocons that want to promote their stupid ideology of waging unnecessary war) have on the political system. I'd like to see:

  • full public financing
  • extremely strict lobbying reform, with full disclosure of every communication between lobbyists and our elected representatives.

I have posted many times over that I want top see that kind of reforms to be put in place.

Fifth, Edwards is running for President. When he says 'don't elect Corporate Democrats, but elect me', he is implying that he is not a Corporate Dem but his opponents are. In legitimizing the phrase, he is smearing the Democratic party.

Had he said: 'Hillary refused to not take lobbyist money, I am not taking such money, and Obama is not taking any such money'. Then, he'd be telling the the truth. I would not have a problem with that. But, at the same time, Hillary camp is going to question the sources of his money, past and present.

While we talk about fund raising, I just learned yesterday from a comment posted at DKos that Edward'04 campaign plead guilty to violating the law on... prohibited corporate contributions


For Immediate Release, FEC
June 22, 2006

TURNER & ASSOCIATES, TAB TURNER, AND EDWARDS FOR PRESIDENT TO PAY CIVIL PENALTIES

Washington -- The Federal Election Commission announced today that Tab Turner, his law firm, Turner & Associates of Little Rock Arkansas (the Firm), and Edwards for President (the principal campaign committee of John Edwards' 2004 campaign) have agreed to pay a total of $59,500 in civil penalties for violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act (the Act) and FEC regulations over prohibited corporate contributions and making contributions in the name of another.
...

Edwards for President admitted it violated the Act by accepting prohibited in-kind contributions from Turner and Associates.  Edwards for President also violated the Act by accepting a contribution made by Mr. Turner in the name of his brother and sister-in-law.  In order to settle the matter, Edwards for President will not further contest this finding and will pay a $9,500 civil penalty.

That adds another new entry in the long list of two faced duality that John Edwards seems to carry on just about everything.

I told you my original thesis: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party when is casually throws around phrase "Corporate Democrats." And there is question that he is.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 09:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're the one faking by trying to equate, (none / 0)

you will have the last word, because you aren't very logical although I sure you think y ou are.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 09:48:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

correction: (none / 0)

last para should be:

I told you my original thesis: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party when he casually throws around the phrase "Corporate Democrats." And there is no question that he does.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 09:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: boatload of BS (none / 0)

It's not a smear in my book, it's finally someone who will stand up and tell the truth about the crap that the Dems are pulling and saying they will make a difference. That's why I support Edwards. If you are happy with the track record of Bill Clinton and congress and the DLC then Edwards is not your guy.


by greenvtster on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 04:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What a spam job. (1.71 / 7)

Anyone can copy and paste.  So silly; so obsessed.  


by TomP on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

troll-rating and hiding for employing personal (none / 0)

smears against me as a substitute for arguments based on evidence.

When I am providing valuable information for the readers, calling it "spam" is a cheap and phoney political smear tactic. Such conduct by you is a disgrace you're perpetrating on the blogosphere.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ratings abuse - stop it (2.00 / 4)

maybe you missed the explanation of the new system. Stop the abuse.


by okamichan13 on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rating abuse. (2.00 / 3)

Very revealing.

You flatter yourself far too much: "valuable information."  LOL.  

This all seems to be some obsessive fantasy of yours.

Spam is spam.  Troll rate all you want.  It's still spam and it's still obsessive behavior that is improper at MyDD.  


by TomP on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is smearing the Democratic party (2.00 / 1)

Edwards isn't smearing anyone and he's not saying that democrats ARE corporate democrats, he's saying that some democrats are entirely too weded to corporate interests and that we cannot simply replace corporate republicans with corporate democrats or their elites with our elites and expect things to be much different. We need to replace them with progressives of which there are many in the democratic party and Edwards often talks about what the democratic party represents to him at it's best and that it's important that the those in the democratic party live up to what we are at our best.

It's along the lives of what David Sirota says that it's more complicated than just democrats vs republicans it's the money party vs the people party and the money party has members from both the democrats and the republicans in it. Most (all?) republicans in congress are of the money party, but some democrats are also of the money party and we need to speak out against those democrats and work to reform the democratic party and to ensure that we elect progressive democrats and not just any democrat and especially not corporate democrats.

I don't think you should be taking issue with that. Corporate democrats certainly exist and we should be working against them at every turn just as they work against progressive interests at every turn. What I think it's more reasonable to take issue with is whether candidate x, y, or z is a corporate democrat or not. I say that Hillary, Richardson, Biden and now Obama seems to be. Obama does take in quite a bit of small donor money from excited people, but he's sourounded by free traders and big money people. He's taken in a ton of big corporate and wall street money and is involved with the free trader rubinomics sorts. The perception that he is different than that and not of the establishment is how he's able to cash in on the small donor base and the reality of how he is explains how he's able to also cash in on the big money as he does. If the perception is shattered than his small donor base could take quite the big hit.


by Quinton on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 09:11:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

BTW (none / 0)

Excellent post.


by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 03:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd love to know (2.00 / 1)

I think you are right on in the post. I can understand why someone, or a blogger, would be still on the fence (some still hope for Gore!) at this time. But by the Fall, the choice will be made. I've had an easier time ruling out than choosing, as my top choices have all opted not to run.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd love to know (2.00 / 2)

Well I can't understand, and after two years of participation, I'm beginning to wonder if I understand progressive blogs or bloggers at all.  I thought we were about making change, taking our country back, and reclaiming the middle.  If I had a magic wand would I pick Edwards?  No, I would pick Dean, but that isn't the point.  Edwards is the only one out there that's singing our song and has half a chance of getting elected.  So why aren't the progressive bloggers rallying behind a "progressive" candidate.  We supported anti-choice Casey because he was a D, and now we can't support Edwards.  One lesson I am taking away from the blogs, maybe erroneously but none the less, is that I need to keep my wallet closed unless I'm putting my money into a candidate from my state.  Are bloggers simply Democratic fundraisers?  I thought we were a cause, but I'm really beginning to wonder what we are.


Follow the money
by dkmich on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 05:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd love to know (none / 0)

Most of the time before Nov 2006, one could read a post somewhere on one of the blogs about how the blogs aren't an ATM, and that the establishment should treat the blogs with respect. My thing is- now that you got it, what are you going to do with it is a very reasonable question to ask.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd love to know (none / 0)

I wasn't talking about the candidates, I was talking about the bloggers.  They only leadership from any of them that I see is raising money.  Then they have opinions on who to support and fund raise for, and then they actively lead in this process.  When it comes to policy or endorsing a presidential candidate, then they have to be neutral.  don't buy it.  


Follow the money
by dkmich on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 05:37:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Dailykos has gone on an all-out war on Hillary these days.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:18:17 PM EST

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

what more do you want?


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is false. (2.00 / 3)

In fact, Kos is posting GE polls favoring Hillary in states.

Can you differentiate between Front Pagers and the back pages?

 


by TomP on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton wouldn't win one red state.  Keep letting the polls fool ya'.

Nominate Hillary Clinton and lose the House and the Senate.  By virtue of who she is, the election would be close, and any close election is what the Republicans want, because as long as it's close they will still it.

John Edwards would have the greatest coat tails effect, and have the greatest chance of winning states like Kentucky or Oklahoma.

Anyone who thinks Hillary Clinton would have a chance of winning in Kentucky must be very naive.


by OE on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 02:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Maybe.  But this statement "Nominate Hillary Clinton and lose the House and the Senate" is not credible.  Nobody believes that (aside from a very, very few like yourself) and that includes many people who dislike her intensely.  


by georgep on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 05:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

And there was a time when almost NOBODY believed the world was round.

I could really care less what "NOBODY" believes.

I was right about EVERYTHING in 2004, and I'm right about this as well.

When the Democrats shoot themselves in the foot by nominating Hillary Clinton, and you end up with an autocratic Republican with intelligence that Bush doesn't have in the White House in 2008, make sure you slap yourself in the face for being too blind to see it coming.


by OE on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Well, you do the same when your "predictions" don't come out the way you think, ok?  


by georgep on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you define (none / 0)

"these days"? Note: Kos did say recently he'll vote for her if she is the nominee.
by oculus on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 3)

I liked Bonior's (Edwards' rep on MSNBC this morning) reemphasis on the looming battle on Iraq in September.

Edwards can really make a strong break amonst the Big 3 if he gets out ahead on this.

My hope is that Dodd breaks out with it now but I give kudos to the Edwards to for refocusing on this.

LEADING NOW! can be a winning move.


by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:19:39 PM EST

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Why were these guys on MSNBC this morning?


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's their normal Super Tuesday thing (2.00 / 1)

the last Tuesday of the month.

It is all day politics coverage.

McAuiliffe was the Hillary rep.


by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's their normal Super Tuesday thing (1.00 / 0)

did moustache Alexrod(?) upset you again? haha, what did he say?


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 2)

I'm an Edwards supporter, but a fairly tepid one, because I believe that the other Big Two (as well as the usual suspect of the second tier) would be just fine, too.

Actually, Clinton is probably my fourth choice, but despite my preferences I think she'd be a great president. And the first woman president is hugely exciting. I'm utterly confident that she'd win the general, and the gender issue is big.

Same with Obama. I think he'd be great. Not as good as Edwards, but still great. And have a black president ... I tried to end this sentence with an intelligent thought, but ran out of superlatives. It'd be really good.

And because I think everyone is just like me, I think this is one reason the Big Mouths haven't endorsed. Even our worst reasonable choice represents a watershed moment in American politics--and a hugely impressive person, too.


by BingoL on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:31:40 PM EST

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 3)

the watershed for me isn't whether there is a black president (i am african american) its whether we get one who will shift this country beyond the reagan revolution. not all of the choices can do that.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:33:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 1)

Well, I think we're facing three possible watershed moments. I support Edwards because I most highly value the one I think he represents, but that doesn't mean the other two possibilities aren't really important to me. And exciting.


by BingoL on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:51:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 1)

I guess I should point out I am not into identity politics. I used to be, but then I saw that Condi Rice and others can use that as a way to cover a lot of bad things that don't help women, African Americans and other groups out. In fact, in politics, these are often used as tools to avoid debate rather than help it.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Yeah, I was going to say something about that. I'm slightly surprised how little the 'sphere' has made of the watershed possibilities of Obama's race and Clinton's gender. I think this is because people are not, as you say, into identity politics.

But I'm not really sure that what I'm saying. I'm not claiming that the identity is somehow the overriding attribute, just a v. important secondary one. A President Obama would represent such an -obvious- change for this country, even setting aside his probable policies (which, to my mind, aren't as attractive as Edwards's), and I think there's value there. In his name and his race. From Bush, the son of a dynastic family, combining the worst of the Eastern establishment with the Texan oilocracy, a man who'd never even left the continent before becoming President, to Barack Obama ... That's a long journey, and one that I think matters.

The argument for Clinton is weaker. Yes, it's long past time for a woman president. But Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton doesn't -seem-, at least, like a wonderful break from the past.

I don't know. Can one be only -party- into identity politics?


by BingoL on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:06:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

I suppose one can partly be into id politics, but I find the emotional temptations too strong in terms of my own psyche. it's easy to gloss over some pretty onerous behavior when one is looking at identity over action. I mean- thatcher was a woman, but she's not what I would want for America. I'll have pride after the fact if they enact policies that truly help women and minorities. I won't have it before the fact simply because they are a woman or minority.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

two for one (none / 0)

I think Obama gives us two-for-one watershed moments. He is the one who will move the center of American politcs to the left.

I don't understand why people are ignoring the unique excitement Obama is bringing to the progressive movement.

If we don't pick him for our nominee we will kick ourselves forever. Like the two teams that passed on Micheal Jordan (yes I'm from Chicago).  


by JoeCoaster on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:14:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: two for one (2.00 / 1)

Well, since I do not believe Obama is doing that, even though he COULD, it is one of the bigest themes of my criticism of him.

I think that Obama supporters do not like to hear this and sort of block out that critique.


by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 03:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: two for one (2.00 / 1)

It's my criticism, too.  He uses the same old rhetoric, which makes it hard to tell if he will really push a progressive agenda or not.  It's difficult to support a politican because he's "exciting" (i.e. liking a candidate because he's likeable).


by justinh on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 03:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: two for one (none / 0)

Maybe your criticism is blocked out because it is based on "belief". We don't know what any of the people are going to do once they get the job.

I look to their histories for clues of their real agenda and try to judge their character based on the glimpses that we get of them.

In Obama I just see an incredible progressive political talent that would be a shame to throw away. The whole country would follow this guy. Lets give them that chance.


by JoeCoaster on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:17:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: two for one (2.00 / 1)

It is based on rhetoric.

Rhetoric is underestimated in importance for politics, policiy and persuasion.


by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: two for one (none / 0)

I also believe that a politician should be judged on rhetoric. But you can't just look at the content of a speech .... does the rhetoric have the power to move the masses (ie: MLK, JFK, Lincoln).

All the great progressive policy statements in the world do you no good if the nation is not following you. When Obama speaks people listen.

There are two pages of youtube videos just of Obama's Springfield Announcement speech. Edwards only has two entries of his.

Unless you think Obama is a fraud why not tap into that excitement.


by JoeCoaster on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 05:44:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: two for one (none / 0)

I agree. He should definitely be Edwards's running mate :)


by adamterando on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 04:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: two for one (none / 0)

I think Obama has made it quite clear that he doesn't think the structural problems in this country as manifested by corporate power do not require a restoration of the balance of power between them and a peoples government. Tweaking yes, large changes, no.


by adamterando on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 04:33:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 6)

I don't understand what the unions and the bloggers are waiting for.  If you want to have influence you need to show that you can influence the direction of support.

Did Dean losing or Clark losing make people more hesitant?  Dean may have lost the nomination, but the netroots won in being considered important.  Dean won influence in the Democratic Party.

The unions keep waiting to go with the winner.  But if they go with the obvious winner, why should the winner give them any credit?  Also why should the next progressive candidate work so hard for them and their agenda and not get support?

This seems to me, to be playing DC type games.  I do want to know who they support.  I may argue, be dismissive or be thrilled, but I want the interaction.

It is interesting to watch new bloggers on the big blogs evolve by taking positions whereas the big names are beginning to be not part of the discussion.  They hold back and seem to dampen the enthusiasm.   A large percentage of regular bloggers are excited about Edwards.  I also see excitement for Obama and Clinton.  

I think the A-list bloggers may be giving up their influence for some idea of neutrality that I don't think serves the progressive movement.  I hope to see more really evaluate who they believe would be the best progressive candidate.  There seems to be some hesitancy because he has reached out to the netroots.  It is an odd reaction.  

I agree with David that the most progressive candidate we have seen in 40 years is John Edwards.  


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:33:52 PM EST

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 6)

Yes, that speech was ignored on the front pages of many A-List blogs.  Why?

There are many possible explanations for all or part of the dynamic you describe.  Here are just a few off the top of my head.

Some bloggers now are professionals.  Pick a candidate and you can alienate another candidate's supporters.  Traffic may go down, and ad revenue with it.  I think it changes things, and not always for the better.  Maybe not even consciously, but it may impact how things are seen.  Neutrality is safer.

Others now are more "respected" and may even "get a seat at the table."   I think it changes things, and not always for the better.

Working class issues do not aways enthuse bloggers, the majority of which are from an upper middle class background.  They are for it in theory, but ....   If Edwards is anything, it's having a working class origin and fighting for working class issues.  Abstract ideas may be fun for some bloggers.

Some just do not like Edwards (maybe from 2003 when they supported other candidates -- I don't know).  Stollers' comment that Edwards' approach to fighting poverty was " little racist" betrayed a personal animus (and was just plain stupid).

Some really cannot decide.

Some prefer Gore.

Some may feel they "should" be neutral.  They want the discourse and not to influence it.

Some may still feel it is too early.

Of course, the blogosphere is just people.  The elties now may not be elite tomorrow.  Things change.  Maybe new bloggers and new blogs will arise.  

The best I expect is neutrality.  Real change takes courage.  

In any event, you bring up very interestng questions.  

Be prepared to duck as you are flamed by supporters of the elite bloggers.


by TomP on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:35:59 PM EST

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)


Working class issues do not aways enthuse bloggers, the majority of which are from an upper middle class background.  They are for it in theory, but ....     Abstract ideas may be fun for some bloggers.

I agree with this assessment wholeheartedly. It is obvious, many, if not most bloggers are just elitists.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is not what I said (2.00 / 1)

at all.

I said that some A-List bloggers had upper-middle class backgrounds.

Not even a good try at misstating my position.  You cannot even construct a strawman.

That may be your opinion, but it is not mine.  Indeed, based on yoru comments, I woudl hazzard a guess that your support of Hillary Clinton is tied to your desire to keep the status quo.

Furthermore, it is my view that your tactics here for Clinton are to disrupt, not to debate.  I have seen enough to judge your tactics.  


by TomP on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The timidity (2.00 / 8)

in endorsing a candidate is a BAD sign for blogsphere, which rose to prominance precisely BECAUSE it was not calculating, but rather committed to saying the truth.

I can already see the timidity creeping in, and already I see the signs of the one thing that can destory the blogs: they are becoming predictable and boring.


by fladem on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:37:06 PM EST

Re: The timidity (2.00 / 2)

bingo- exactly right.


by bruh21 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The timidity (2.00 / 4)

I agree. Timidity and playing it safe is not healthy for the blogosphere in general although I don't see the majority of the blogosphere holding back, just the elite bloggers.

The masses, so to speak, those who keep the blogosphere going, seem to be decided and are speaking out.

I'd hate to see progressive blogs turn into ghost towns because being tempid and playing it safe becomes the norm.


by NCDemAmy on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:52:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The timidity (2.00 / 4)

I think you're onto something.  I hope new blogs will spring up with more force to take the old guard's place if that happens, but it may not.


by MassEyesandEars on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:53:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The timidity (none / 0)

You can still be committed to telling the truth without endorsing a candidate at this stage in the game.  It's impossible to compare the environment of this pres. election with the last one.  Basically, we've got an embarassment of riches in a favorable environment.  any of our guys would be so much better than the last eight years.  When everything in the case looks good, it's hard to settle on one donut.


by bluedavid on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 03:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The clock's ticking, though (2.00 / 2)

Maybe, but time's running out.  Even if Iowa stays in January, it's just over 4 months until Iowa.  And if Hillary wins Iowa, she's gonna be all but impossible to stop.

If, six weeks from now, the Big Bloggers are still sitting on their hands, not wanting to endorse anyone too soon, the moment of opportunity will have passed.  

Memo to Kos and his front-pagers, to Chris and Matt and Jerome and Jonathan Singer, to Jane and Christy and Digby and Atrios and anyone else who is sufficiently un-wonky to actually push candidates: if you don't want Hillary, it's time to choose someone else, and throw your weight behind him.

Because if nothing happens to change the dynamic, Hillary will wrap it up early.

So, who's going to change the dynamic?  Is the blogosphere about waiting to see who or what's going to change it, or about being the change?


by RT on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The clock's ticking, though (none / 0)

The blogosphere is made up of many, many people with different opinions and preferences.  I don't see the blogosphere as some cohesive unit when it comes to the three candidates.  They all have something to offer to the progressive sphere.  That is the reason Edwards is not wholeheartedly endorsed by anyone.   He has warts and problems and may just not have made the sale even with frontpage bloggers.   If it were, say, Edwards vs. Lieberman, the choice would be easy.  But Clinton has some elements that make her very attractive to many on the sphere.   The same is true for Obama (who I believe for instance is Todd Beeton's choice.)    I think the "sphere" on the whole likes all 3 candidates and also has plenty to dislike about all 3.   Thus, no rallying around one candidate.    


by georgep on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 06:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 3)

Well, stated! Edwards is the most progressive candidate by far.


by cmpnwtr on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:46:21 PM EST

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

I will actually like to see Daily Kos endorse Edwards , that will be fun.

I hope the MSM covers the endorsement.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:47:17 PM EST

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 2)

DailyKos is not a blogger.  It is a site with quite a few well known Front Page bloggers.  I would be surprized to see Markos endorse Edwards, but some of the others might.

But your statement makes no sense. Especially in the context that Mizner is talking about.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Actually I don't care if all the posters on the front page of Daily Kos endorse Edwards or even posters that are not frontpagers.

If I was running in an election , that is the last endorsement I would want . I do not think Edwards will be appreciative of an endorsement from the front pagers of Daily Kos.

I don't see how it is a positive , if I was an undecided voter and I hear that the front pagers on Daily Kos endorsed Edwards it will make me less likely to vote for him. Edwards definitely cannot win even with all the entire bloggers endorsement in his pocket , he has to expand his appeal and an endorsement like that ( Kos Frontpagers ) make it less likely I'll vote for that candidate.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:02:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (2.00 / 1)

Absolutely!

I think Edwards would hate an endorsement from such an ugly hotbed of Democratic activism. He's also run from union endorsements, I imagine--I mean, given the whole Jimmy Hoffa thing. And the nail in his coffin would be an endorsement from Tavis Smiley: an endorsement like -that-, and I know I wouldn't vote for the candidate!


by BingoL on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the Sphere Waiting For? (none / 0)

Thats not a fair comparison to me :

There is no way I'll compare the crowd at Daily Kos with the unions or Tavis Smiley.

I seriously doubt an endorsements by the bloggers at Daily Kos will be a positive to Edwards , he already has their support , a formal endorsement will probably be a net negative because moderate voters will probably be turned off , I know I will be.

Edwards/Obama will probably prefer not to have a formal endorsement from the bloggers in Daily Kos specifically.

If I was Obama/Edwards I won't want a formal endorsement from Markos.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]